Can you tweet that we dont speak on behalf of ResetEra so we cant answer that question
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Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)
Can you tweet that we dont speak on behalf of ResetEra so we cant answer that question
Hypereides
Gold Member
"Little".
Its genuinely alarming. These people are brushing aside rational and logical thinking in favor of radical and impulsive behavior.
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the Guynecologist
Member
Yes I do agree. I would probably wait for another couple of weeks, maybe months, until more evidence comes out: hopefully Holowka will make a response. And honestly I am being something of an asshole (although due to personal experience and knowledge about Chelsea,) I'm not believing her at her word, I can't. And this is a difficult line to balance on. I am basically inferring that I don't believe this happened. Without knowing any of the details, other than Zoe's own words, I'm very nearly dismissing this out of hand. Purely because I don't trust Zoe Quinn's own words at this point. I very well may be wrong.
And I do know what you mean about the rush to cut ties with Alec following Chelsea's accusations, but I've seen a version of this before. I think a bit part of it is that Zoe Quinn is incredibly convincing. I've called her a liar in the last few posts I've made but that really doesn't do her justice. As far as I can tell (and I really am putting my armchair psychologist hat on now) she seems to believe the lies she tells when she tells them. And will then build on said lies until her entire persona is made out of a giant tower of gaffer tape. But that's just my analysis. Chelsea is really convincing liar.
Of course there's another problem here: as mentioned before the media coverage of her has been overwhelmingly positive (baring places like Breitbart of course - although even then Milo Yiannopolous came a bit late to the party and barely covered her. To clarify my positition in case anyone from the outside world is reading this: this is not a defence of Breitbart or Milo's political views or even the tone of said coverage) and the media loves established narratives. In this case being the narrative of a woman being unjustly accused of crimes she didn't commit and being a kind of martyr figure for online feminism and internet harassment. Never mind the fact that to this day people close to Quinn keep writing long-ass call-outs about her behaviour and how she betrayed them or acted psychotic or whatever.
Honestly I think Quinn's story struck a nerve back in 2014, that of how hard it is to be a woman with opinions on the internet. I think people wanted that story and needed a figure to rally behind, although if I remember correctly Anita Sarkeesian got harassed very shortly after her and kinda stole Chelsea's thunder a bit at least as far as good copy goes. And I'm not going to go into what I think of Anita here, she's actually a different person with completely different problems to Quinn. Unfortunately Zoe, Anita and the batshit insanity of Brianna Wu tend to be lumped together by both sides: one into a kind of singular feminist martyr figure and to the other a kind of straw-feminist figure, guilty of every slight possibly imagined. I've seen people mix up the actions and characters and accusations against all three on both sides of the divide.
Anyway back to established narratives. Looking at the coverage for Night in the Woods it does seem like the game got a lot of press from places like Rock, Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Polygon et al. Places which historically have defended Chelsea against any and all accusations. Is it possible that Infinite Ammo are cutting ties because they don't want the wrath of these outlets? That they want to make sure future games still get covered by these sites? (And looking at Infinite Ammo's output I can't see many other places that would cover the type of indie games they tend to make.) Possibly. But honestly I somewhat doubt it. It may be a factor, really. But I would put good money on them believing Chelsea at her word, despite any evidence to the contrary.
Even Eron Gjoni goes into this in his Zoe Post. She's incredibly manipulative to the point where Eron found himself believing entire complex strings of lies. Plus any and all press (baring Breitbart, but they've long since moved on, and Drama whore YouTubers who still act like it's 2015) will automatically take her side. Have you ever heard of the Murray Gell-Mann effect? It's where you might read an article in a newspaper on a subject you're well-versed in only to find the article full of misinformation and poor reasoning. Only to turn the page to read about a subject you know little about and believe it wholeheartedly despite having just seen how completely inaccurate some coverage can be. The media narrative around Quinn is so set-in-stone by this point that I think the entire world (or at least those who know about her) believes in it.
Shit, I forgot where I was fucking going with this. Okay look, I think it's likely not political: more peer pressure by social media, combined with just believing Zoe Quinn at her word. A lot of people trust her and a lot of people don't, however the second group turned into gamergate several years ago which turned into a bonkers soap opera past a certain point and nearly every talking head associated with it turned out to arguably be either far worse than the people they were criticising or else guilty of the very things they were railing against (albeit on the other side of the political fence.) I would wait until further evidence comes out for obvious reasons. The point I've been trying to get across is that, due to previous circumstances, I wouldn't believe a thing Zoe Quinn says.
Oh and as far as treading carefully goes: I don't think many people know that Zoe's likely BPD. That's kinda lumped in with all the harassment she's received as being another ploy by MRA's or gamergators or the alt-right to discredit her.
brap
Banned
lmao jesus fucking christ. write another novella length post trying to defend her. i think that will finally get her to fuck you. zoe quinn is a piece of shit end of story.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I've got a Linked In for jobs and colleagues, and a Facebook for friends and fam and close coworkers. That's it.
Linked In for scoping jobs, FB for occasional photo uploads. Past 5 years have been a trainwreck for Linked In as people are treating it like FB v2. All these personal blogs and people liking and high-fiving each other's articles. I even see Happy Birthday messages on the feed. WTF.
Don't get me wrong, I love reading stupid shit on Twitter people re-post (like Trump), but don't care for having my own. Or Instagram, Pinterest or any other ones out there. I love surfing the net, but I don't see how anyone can keep up with updating a million social media sites so often.
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the Guynecologist
Member
Oh come on how is that defending her. Look I'm trying to be as charitable as possible because I kinda want people from the other side to finally open their eyes to this. Because the problem with the initial scandal around her that eventually evolved into gamergate is that 4channers were calling her a whore and a slut and hey, they did find her nudes within hours and trolled her Wikipedia page. This caused a lot of people to just shut it all out and assume that everything that was happening was sexist bullshit. Just like the media were saying, just like she was saying.
Plus how is that defending her at all? I'm implying she has BPD and is probably lying about sexual abuse to the entire world causing some guy to get fired for something he likely didn't do. Shit, I've implied everything about her is a lie, down to her goddamn name and birthday. Well, more than imply I think I showed fairly accurate proof of that fact.
But I kinda love your avatar.
Remembrance of Time Past
Neo Member
Is there a great irony to the people complaining that Zoe’s sex life was not pertinent public information five years ago who are now pushing said sex life as important public information today...?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
The intelligent people, the open-minded free-thinkers already know. The ones that refuse to look at reality are the dumb-as-fuck, brainwashed oxygen wasters. There is no hope for them. They are too stupid.
That’s the way it is.
FranXico
Member
Any stance goes, as long as that frames her as a victim.
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lifa-cobex
Member
nush
Gold Member
This dude has done his research and is joining the dots.
Just as I already noticed.
Anita Sarkeesian launches gaming industry #metoo campaign
"Their bravery is going to give courage to other women and non-binary folks to speak up and you can rest assured that this is a massive problem affecting and caused by the developers who make the games you love." Why only women and non-binary folks? We are forever told that this is an...
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah, hot garbage!
Paracelsus
Member
It's not about believing, because they don't believe it themselves, it's about presenting it as truth to get goods or services.
I told you, wait until they're out the business, and then crack the champagne. Now that they made up another scandal, here's 5 more years of feminist seminars with mentally disabled people attending and funding their pensions.
They're probably the biggest shysters in the history of gaming, and they don't even belong close to gaming to begin with.
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llien
Member
You can go there, register, engage in edit wars.
It's not Left's fault if US Right are not doing that.
Paracelsus
Member
Edit wars can be stopped by -you guessed it- liberal wikipedia moderators.
llien
Member
And they are liberal, because?
All that is rather theoretical. While there is some freedom on how one reflects events, solid arguments can make it through bias.
Katsura
Member
Doesn't matter when almost all of admins and high rank members are from the regressive cult. I've watched it play out numerous times. If that's not enough, their 'reliable sources' system, which the left forced through instead of the '5 pillars' system they had before, means it's inherently biased. They refuse any sources right of Fox (and even some Fox sources) yet Washington Post, MSNBC and CNN are all reliable sources according to them, despite being caught lying numerous times in recent years
This system means nothing on there can be trusted. Imagine someone on WaPo decided to write an article labelling you a nazi without any evidence what so ever. Then someone creates a wiki page about you, referencing the WaPo article and stating you're a nazi. Now you are a nazi in the eyes of anyone randomly searching for your name and unless you can provide articles by leftist media stating you're not a nazi, you can't get that article removed
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llien
Member
Doing nothing will only make it worse.
Katsura
Member
Did you read the rest of the post? There is nothing we can do at this point except if someone managed to dele the entire wiki and all existing backups. Jimbo is too busy doing the fundraiser thing and has no real power there anymore. Wiki is gone, has been for at least 2 years but probably more
Paracelsus
Member
You missed the whole problem with liberalism: it can't say anything wrong. A liberal is never wrong.
When you push that notion, there's no "solid argument", there's "the argument that pushes my agenda is right, yours is wrong".
the Guynecologist
Member
Actually no. Last time a group tried to do something about this it became the gamergate clusterfuck and people are still blaming it for the world's problems all these years later. It's a real Gordian knot, there is no winning move mate. If you try you will labelled a nazi or sexist or an incel or whatever else. Besides those Wikipedia articles are locked down because people tried to do exactly what you're saying 5 years ago. Really the only winning move is to just ignore them, especially people like Quinn. They thrive off attention, good or bad, so don't give it to them.
llien
Member
Then electing Trump was a mistake too, since someone out there somewhere till won't shut up about it.
It is an uphill battle, but as with all battles, you have a 100% chance of losing, if you don't show up.
Katsura
Member
No, this particular battle has already been lost a long time ago. Better to spend the energy elsewhere while reminding people that wiki is propaganda. I know that it does not apply to everything on wiki but any page for something even remotely political and controversial is controlled by leftist
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Katsura
Member
Never! I agree with everything you said. Wait a minute - you tricked me
Fair enough though
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the Guynecologist
Member
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. You said that "Doing nothing will only make it worse," and I'd argue that a large group of people did try to do something 5 years ago. And despite some good coming off it (making sites like Kotaku update their ethics policies, getting several rather annoying game journalists to leave game writing and arguably distracting Gawker for long enough that they didn't even bother to prepare or look into who was funding Hulk Hogan's sex-tape lawsuit against them resulting in their bankruptcy) in the end the existence of gamergate gave a reason and purpose for the 'woke' mafia to exist. Before then it was just idiots dog-piling people on twitter for 'abusing their privilege' or whatever else. Now it's pure madness and has a far bigger hold on actual game companies. And that's not even going into the madness that formed on the gamergate side.
llien
Member
Said mafia exists in all areas, most notably, in academia, and, wait for it, for decades.
The push is so hard, that guys like Jonathan Heidt (a leftie) founded "Heterodox Academy" to somehow fend them off.
Gamergate (which I learned existed only from this site) has nothing to do with it, hence.
Arun1910
Member
Y'all need Jesus, and Specsavers.
Arun1910
Member
u dun fucked up
the Guynecologist
Member
Even Haidt's said that it started going properly crazy around 2014, the same year the original Zoe Quinn scandal happened. Yes, I think in part gamergate was the first big push against it by a large group that wasn't just made up of conservatives. The problem is that it's Quinn we're talking about here. This is the person who stayed on 4chan for a week looking for anyone who said anything remotely threatening about her. This a person who used google alerts to stalk her ex-boyfriend and then use that 'evidence' to drag him to court. This is the person who started an anti-abuse network called the Crash Override Network (which hilariously shortened to CON) an organisation that spent all its time not helping people abused by the internet but instead spent a solid year and a half gathering 'evidence' to try to bring those pesky gamergators down. And yet the press still act as if she's a saint. There is no winning condition here.
She isn't some Machiavellian genius or anything, just someone in the right place in the right time with the right gender and the right mental disorder. Leave it alone mate, it'll only translate to more money in her Patreon account if you try anything. And that's been the case since well before gamergate.
Kamina
Golden Boy
Posting about such accusations on twitter, especially without evidence should be punishable by law as false statements. Its too easy to destroy someones life these days with a single accusation on public media when regressive SWJs accept everything as truth if it comes from the mouth of anything but a white male.
llien
Member
the Guynecologist
Member
Fair enough, this is 1996:
Sokal affair - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Point taken. I think these things do come in waves though, the French post-modernist movement came to western academia in the late 60s and took off in the early 70s then it faded in the 80s. Later it came back in the 90s only to fade again in the early 2000s. The problem with this wave of it is that it's spread online far beyond the reaches of academia. If you were to stop this kind of teaching today it wouldn't get rid of ResetEra or twitter mobs or anything else. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle at this point.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
That's okay, though. The mob of proles always always always finds a way to ruin the shrewd machinations of the Masters. Now the rest of us can point and laugh at the genie while academia screeches at us for being too stupid to understand their "genius".
Komatsu
Member
I wasn't aware of their choice of pronouns - I know nothing about the person. My mistake, clearly.
Arun1910
Member
It's all G, was just messing.
Whitesnake
Banned
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
I dare you to fuck her
Shmunter
Member
Disclaimer: you will get fucked back with interest
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Flying Toaster
Member
The last paragraph "I currently do not see a place for myself in games or on twitter".
That hurts. I lost a sibling and I can understand the pain and grief she is going through no one should have to deal with a situation like this especially given the events leading up to it.
Wwg1wga
Member
did he commit suicide ?
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
If it turns out that this guy was innocent.... and killed himself because of a false accusation...
Well I'm not gonna post what I hope happens. I'll just leave it at that. You can probably guess what I'm getting at.
Well I'm not gonna post what I hope happens. I'll just leave it at that. You can probably guess what I'm getting at.
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kingbean
Member
Yes
EightBit Man
Member
I don't even know what to say.
What's up with this horrible woman?
What's up with this horrible woman?
EightBit Man
Member
I suspected that. To Zoe this was "just a game of course". That woman is a certified psychopath that should be locked up.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
How would Zoe get the attention she craved if she handled it like an adult?
EightBit Man
Member
The guy may have had issues (according to his sister), but how do we know he did the things Zoe accused him of? It sounds to me she wanted HIM to go down, knowing his weak points, in order to get revenge and the attention she so desperately craves. She didn't want him to recover and being a better person, she didn't want him to be in a better place at all. My goodness people, learn the traits of the severely pathological narcissist.
Believe me, by now it should be known that that woman has absolutely no conscience. She can walk over dead bodies as far as I'm concerned.
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