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[Amentallica]

Reading through threads like this always keeps me entertained, but then it deviates into a 'competition is healthy' discussion and I just fucking lose it.

Why are there so many people who don't understand how competition works? I keep seeing shit like "sales parity benefits consumers" and "keeping Sony in check" and I'm wondering what the hell are they thinking?

Do you really believe the Xbox One should sell the same amount as the cheaper, more powerful, far better value in service (PS+ vs XBL Gold) console? There's a reason why more people are buying the PS4 over the Xbox One. People saw more value in the system and until MS improves their value proposal, it will continue to sell less than the PS4.

Also, when someone says "keeping Sony in check" do you guys completely ignore the PS1 and PS2? Or Amazon, or Steam, or any other market leader? As long as there's options, why do you think the market leader will say fuck it and lose everything?

Thank you! God damn it, thank you! This is what I wanted to type but I just couldn't do it for the nth time.

Good competitors who understand what the consumers want and are able to provide the goods are great for the market. Shitty anti-consumer, exceedingly greedy, out of touch and nickle and diming competitors like MS have no place in any market.

You also get it!

Oh boy...another "we're all better off is MS does well" thread.

Don't people realize that MS getting it's ass handed to it in worldwide sales is the direct result of Sony being very competitive this gen? Equality of sales that result by willfully ignoring product/service/price differences doesn't benefit anyone except the company that offers the least value.

Keep 'em coming, guys.

Exactly. If a company fucks up, they WILL get called out on it. It goes for everybody, there's no Pro-Sony, or Pro-Microsoft, or Pro-Nintendo on here.

Last gen, everyone on here were against Sony because of what they did with the PS3 & all of the bashing against Sony didn't die down until about 2009.

Today? It's Microsoft's turn.

Another way to look at it, yup!

Oh oh.

Yes.

 

[TheOctodad]

Reading through threads like this always keeps me entertained, but then it deviates into a 'competition is healthy' discussion and I just fucking lose it.

Losing it is healthy, it makes you think harder. /s

 

[bishoptl]

I'm not sure any of that is on the level of hate MS is experiencing now. All I see is threads full of people who can't wait to shout them down.

Just glance through the Xbox sales up 96% thread. It doesn't look like there's many in there would be shedding a tear if MS pulled out the market. Can't wait to pour more gloom on any positive headline.

I love your avatar, but you literally must have just showed up on these forums. Sony took it in the ear from all and sundry during the PS3 era on GAF. Suck it up.

 

[xxracerxx]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131449

MS is the victim!!!!

 

[Amentallica]

Losing it is healthy, it makes you think harder. /s

This got a good laugh out of me. lol

 

[ypo]

Good competitors who understand what the consumers want and are able to provide the goods are great for the market. Shitty anti-consumer, exceedingly greedy, out of touch and nickle and diming competitors like MS have no place in any market.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I love your avatar, but you literally must have just showed up on these forums. Sony took it in the ear from all and sundry during the PS3 era on GAF. Suck it up.

Amirox rung the death bells for sony himself when the famous betrayalton of FFXIII happened. Those were the days, man.

 

[Boogdud]

Competition is healthy you know.

Then MS should start trying to compete. I still can't believe they haven't even tried to up Live to PS+, they should have done that before the launches.

 

[jimi_dini]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

Yes, competition is healthy.

But it's also healthy to show a company, who tried to pull stunts with customers (always online DRM, no selling of used games and all that jazz), who's actually boss.

 

[ghibli99]

Mandatory Kinect is pretty much the XB1's Wii U GamePad. It partially or wholly contributes to making a system $100-150 more expensive than it should be, with questionable value/entertainment add. I have a Wii U, and although it's home to some of my favorite games this generation so far, I still have a very, very hard time justifying the purchase to others. I do enjoy most Nintendo franchises, so there's tilt there, whereas I've never been much into Xbox-specific ones except for Forza. That's not enough for me to drop $500 on the system, even with an FM5 game token included. Second Son is the first PS4 game that is making me consider buying the system, and the knowledge that the PS4 will undoubtedly have the most variety and types of games I will want to play in the long run make it the one I'll buy when I'm ready.

 

[Sinthor]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

It's no different from how it was, especially earlier on with Sony and the PS3. It's not bias, it's just people irritated with either company, regardless who it is, when they make boneheaded mistakes.

Not poking at you, but I DO think it's funny when people come on the forum and talk about how "pro Sony" the board is without an inkling apparently at just how much of a 180 that is over the previous years. I tended to think the same back then for a while, but I caught on to what it really was years ago and it made sense. I agreed with it as well back then and I agree with it now. Sony deserved the bashing they got back then and Microsoft deserves it now.

 

[TrueGrime]

Its kinda hard not to want a console to fail that tried to do its best to fuck the consumer as hard as it possibly could. Really. Its hard to actually cheer for that kind of garbage. Sure, its changed, but it took tooth and nail for it to happen.

I think people still want another console around, just not MS's vision of what that console is. You know they will try this shit again as they see this type of future as inevitable. Hell, we have some people here who are actually high enough to say "it was way ahead of its time". So we know there are people that fall for MSs garbage. They will try again.

I doubt people at the Xbox division sat down and said to themselves, "How do we fuck the consumer." The folks up at MS had a vision and they went with it. It wasn't a vision that sat well with others, but I hardly think they deserve to be burned at the stake. I give them kudos for trying something completely unorthodox and pity them for the failure. The Xbox is quite the different machine they sought to bring to the people from E3 last year. That being said it seems they are listening and changing things up as they go with updates and patches.

 

[Boogdud]

I doubt people at the Xbox division sat down and said to themselves, "How do we fuck the consumer." The folks up at MS had a vision and they went with it. It wasn't a vision that sat well with others, but I hardly think they deserve to be burned at the stake. I give them kudos for trying something completely unorthodox and pity them for the failure. The Xbox is quite the different machine they sought to bring to the people from E3 last year. That being said it seems they are listening and changing things up as they go with updates and patches.

Yeah, you're probably right that question and the resulting vision was not "how do we fuck the consumer". The question that was asked, and the vision that resulted from it was more likely: "What can we get away with?" and the answer at the time was "just about anything we damn well want".

 

[BRocknRolla]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

You're seeing competition in action. Positive Sony sentiment and negative MS sentiment is directly related to the manner in which they have conducted their businesses. If you don't think other people should be able to knock MS right now, then you're speaking against competition. There's no incentive for the market to change if consumers don't speak their minds and vote with their wallets. (Edit: And thanks for the suggestion that GAF is an "official sony board." I just love to read about what a hive mind we are.)

 

[PeskyToaster]

This pro Sony feeling is a pretty recent phenomenon. They've done almost everything right since they got humbled by MS early last gen. Now we have a great PS+ service, great first parties, and a powerful console. If they start to fuck things up, sentiments will turn. I wasn't on GAF but among my friends the PS3 was a joke up until their exclusives and PS+ made me jealous of PS3 owners.

Soon I think MS will step up and start adding more value to their console. It will be hard to overcome the price point and power disparity though. Especially hard to eat the cost of Kinect after so much R&D. One bad console isn't the end, hopefully it is a motivator. Hopefully Sony doesnt rest on their laurels either.

 

[PlayStationboy]

Here's my description:

Loved the first PlayStation. I imported the Japanese version a few months earlier. Became an instant PS fan. Was a Nintendo fan at the time, got tired of waiting for the "Ultra 64" which by the way I purchased with Mario 64 and Pilot Wings, but overall, the PS1 was my favorite console that generation. So you can say that I deserted Nintendo for the PSX.

Next up, I bought a Dreamcast. Was stoked and excited about the PS2's promise, but itching for new hardware, I couldn't wait another year, besides, $199 is pennies for a console launch. In the end however, the PS2 became the best and favorite console that gen as well. Also bought an Xbox for it's capabilities, but it was no match for the PS2's library.

Now something different happened last gen. The 360 started to look really attractive initially, lots of cool games and lots of my friends started to migrate to that system. It was too attractive to dismiss. Of course I eventually bought a PS3 but not right away thanks to that $599 price tag, but despite owning both PS3 and 360 I found myself purchasing multiplats on 360. PS3 was mainly for exclusives... to a certain point that is, because what happened 3/4 is that the tide started to turn, the PS3 really started to kick some ass with some great exclusives all the way to the end.

So in short I could say that MS made some of us raise an eyebrow and notice the 360. Some swing or on the fence gamers may have even deserted Sony for MS' 360. Then towards the end of the generation, Sony made a great comeback. People were already disappointed with the 360's performance and were already looking to PS4 for a more stable game library of exclusives. Then the policy fiasco, the spec disparity and price difference pretty much cemented what was already going to happen.

 

[TheOctodad]

I doubt people at the Xbox division sat down and said to themselves, "How do we fuck the consumer." The folks up at MS had a vision and they went with it. It wasn't a vision that sat well with others, but I hardly think they deserve to be burned at the stake. I give them kudos for trying something completely unorthodox and pity them for the failure. The Xbox is quite the different machine they sought to bring to the people from E3 last year. That being said it seems they are listening and changing things up as they go with updates and patches.

Corporations don't articulate "how do we fuck the consumer." But what does happen is executives start looking at how to monetize their products and say, "do you think the consumer will go for this?" Then they get arrogant and believe that because they are a large corporation who has a dominate marketshare that they can push for more control and less consumer freedom and the consumer will do so because they are so in love with their product or have no other choice.

I don't doubt that some of the people on the ground floor are passionate about the Xbox One. But there were numerous quotes from MS executives during the X1 launch that were very close to "fuck you consumer." Remember the "just buy a 360" line from Mattrick. Or should we take a look at Mehdi's quote? "

"In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details," said Mehdi. "We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

MS's attitude has definitely been anti consumer. And they absolutely deserve backlash for it.

 

[TrueGrime]

Yeah, you're probably right that question and the resulting vision was not "how do we fuck the consumer". The question that was asked, and the vision that resulted from it was more likely: "What can we get away with?" and the answer at the time was "just about anything we damn well want".

And you know what? They got humbled, didn't they? They backtracked on a lot of shit and I see that as surrender. Could it be better? Fuck yeah it could. It's less than 6 months into the generation and MS has time to turn their imagine around just like the PS3 turned around . Maybe it's just my indifferent personality on some things but I just can't stay mad at a company for trying to make a profit. If how they are trying to make a profit doesn't sit well with the masses then the masses will be heard and I think MS is paying their due.

 

[ironcreed]

I doubt people at the Xbox division sat down and said to themselves, "How do we fuck the consumer." The folks up at MS had a vision and they went with it. It wasn't a vision that sat well with others, but I hardly think they deserve to be burned at the stake. I give them kudos for trying something completely unorthodox and pity them for the failure. The Xbox is quite the different machine they sought to bring to the people from E3 last year. That being said it seems they are listening and changing things up as they go with updates and patches.

Kind of why I want one now. I spit just as much venom as anyone at them and they most certainly deserved it. But now the Xbox One is quite attractive, as far as I am concerned. I just think they need to lower the price and it will be even more so. Thankfully, the wheels on that are already starting to spin a little.

 

[PhantomFear]

Oh boy...another "we're all better off is MS does well" thread.

Don't people realize that MS getting it's ass handed to it in worldwide sales is the direct result of Sony being very competitive this gen? Equality of sales that result by willfully ignoring product/service/price differences doesn't benefit anyone except the company that offers the least value.

 

[TrueGrime]

Corporations don't articulate "how do we fuck the consumer." But what does happen is executives start looking at how to monetize their products and say, "do you think the consumer will go for this?" Then they get arrogant and believe that because they are a large corporation who has a dominate marketshare that they can push for more control and less consumer freedom and the consumer will do so because they are so in love with their product or have no other choice.

I don't doubt that some of the people on the ground floor are passionate about the Xbox One. But there were numerous quotes from MS executives during the X1 launch that were very close to "fuck you consumer." Remember the "just buy a 360" line from Mattrick. Or should we take a look at Mehdi's quote? "

MS's attitude has definitely been anti consumer. And they absolutely deserve backlash for it.

I agree with your comments on the executives. Social media (and just media) these days isn't what it used to be and there is now little separating the consumer from the corporate spokespersons. You say it, you bought it, and you deserve whatever praise or retribution that's coming to you. People have every right to be angry at those people (and some of those people aren't even there anymore). MS's PR is absolutely horrendous and a lot of the pain they're going through now could have been alleviated by a functional PR.

Oh boy...another "we're all better off is MS does well" thread.

Don't people realize that MS getting it's ass handed to it in worldwide sales is the direct result of Sony being very competitive this gen? Equality of sales that result by willfully ignoring product/service/price differences doesn't benefit anyone except the company that offers the least value.

I hope they turn around and do well. I own their system after all. =p

 

[MercuryLS]

I doubt people at the Xbox division sat down and said to themselves, "How do we fuck the consumer." The folks up at MS had a vision and they went with it. It wasn't a vision that sat well with others, but I hardly think they deserve to be burned at the stake. I give them kudos for trying something completely unorthodox and pity them for the failure. The Xbox is quite the different machine they sought to bring to the people from E3 last year. That being said it seems they are listening and changing things up as they go with updates and patches.

They already used the "how do we fuck the consumer" mindset when doing the following:

- Proprietary HDD's at high prices
- Wifi adaptor at $100 when it was built in on every other machine
- Play and Charge kits
- Locking free and already paid services like Netflix behind XBLG when no other platform on the planet does so

I wouldn't put it past them that they did the DRM stuff in order to give gamers a raw deal and enrich their coffers a bit more. It was all about further control over software and how it's resold, making sure it's done under MS and publisher terms. There was nothing positive about the DRM scheme other than not having to swap around discs and use up bandwidth.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Through software emulation.

Then I go back to my original statement, which is that I wouldn't be able to play any of the discs in my library.

 

[TheOctodad]

I agree with your comments on the executives. Social media (and just media) these days isn't what it used to be and there is now little separating the consumer from the corporate spokespersons. You say it, you bought it, and you deserve whatever praise or retribution that's coming to you. People have every right to be angry at those people (and some of those people aren't even there anymore). MS's PR is absolutely horrendous and a lot of the pain they're going through now could have been alleviated by a functional PR.



I hope they turn around and do well. I own their system after all. =p

Except it wasn't just bad PR. The DRM, the always online, the KINECT/TV, the weaker console, the $100 more - all real. It wasn't bad PR, it was bad choices.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

If the Xbox One was as powerful as the PS4 and launched at the same price without Kinect then the mass exodus would not be happening.

But it didn't. They shot themselves in the foot...

 

[Marco1]

I bought a xbone and PS4 at launch and I am so close to selling the xbone.
The graphical performance of titanfall has been the last straw for me. There is nothing about this console that appeals to be so I might just go PS4 and vita for the rest of this gen.
I know MS will bring some great games to the system but something I learned last gen is than most of it comes over to PS4 eventually. I also can't see any MS games performing better on the xbone.

 

[TrueGrime]

Kind of why I want one now. I spit just as much venom as anyone at them and they most certainly deserved it. But now the Xbox One is quite attractive, as far as I am concerned. I just think they need to lower the price and it will be even more so. Thankfully, the wheels on that are already starting to spin a little.

Stay humble and keep listening to what customers want. It might take them some time to bring the price down or ship and SKU without kinect (which I believe is the biggest gripe), but I think it will eventually happen. They're starting listening and the updates they're being out show that. Still a ways to go.

They already used the "how do we fuck the consumer" mindset when doing the following:

- Proprietary HDD's at high prices
- Wifi adaptor at $100 when it was built in on every other machine
- Play and Charge kits
- Locking free and already paid services like Netflix behind XBLG when no other platform on the planet does so

I wouldn't put it past them that they did the DRM stuff in order to give gamers a raw deal and enrich their coffers a bit more. It was all about further control over software and how it's resold, making sure it's done under MS and publisher terms. There was nothing positive about the DRM scheme other than not having to swap around discs and use up bandwidth.

- Proprietary HDD's at high prices ~ I think we're still waiting on a way to use our own HDD's for storage
- Wifi adaptor at $100 when it was built in on every other machine ~ Agreed. Stupid.
- Play and Charge kits ~ This isn't anything new.
- Locking free and already paid services like Netflix behind XBLG when no other platform on the planet does so ~ This doesn't bother me as much. I can netflix on my PC using HDMI in to my TV. My TV even comes standard with apps like netflix. I pay to play online and the services there are a plus for me to have access to.

As for DRM, I see how that's handled on the PC side and I'm glad that it isn't presently implemented. If MS is smart, they'll never implement it, but we'll see.

Except it wasn't just bad PR. The DRM, the always online, the KINECT/TV, the weaker console, the $100 more - all real. It wasn't bad PR, it was bad choices.

I understand. My point is that there is no need to be permanently pissing mad at MS. I certainly shouldn't be ridiculed for my preference. MS did what they did and they can pay for it. It'll be an uphill battle this generation and they did that to themselves. Everything can change (except the weaker console part) and I'm going to try and give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll man up and so what's best for the console and the customers. Less than 6 months in. There's still time.

 

[TrueGrime]

I think I'll bow gracefully out of this thread. Gone against the grain enough and I don't want to overstay the welcome!

 

[Biker19]

Why are there so many people who don't understand how competition works? I keep seeing shit like "sales parity benefits consumers" and "keeping Sony in check" and I'm wondering what the hell are they thinking?

Do you really believe the Xbox One should sell the same amount as the cheaper, more powerful, far better value in service (PS+ vs XBL Gold) console? There's a reason why more people are buying the PS4 over the Xbox One. People saw more value in the system and until MS improves their value proposal, it will continue to sell less than the PS4.

Also, when someone says "keeping Sony in check" do you guys completely ignore the PS1 and PS2? Or Amazon, or Steam, or any other market leader? As long as there's options, why do you think the market leader will say fuck it and lose everything?

Good competitors who understand what the consumers want and are able to provide the goods are great for the market. Shitty anti-consumer, exceedingly greedy, out of touch and nickle and diming competitors like MS have no place in any market.

Exactly. If a company fucks up, they WILL get called out on it. It goes for everybody, there's no Pro-Sony, or Pro-Microsoft, or Pro-Nintendo on here.

Last gen, everyone on here were against Sony because of what they did with the PS3 & all of the bashing against Sony didn't die down until about 2009.

Today? It's Microsoft's turn.

 

[justsomeguy]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

Oh oh.

 

[spookyfish]

Mandatory Kinect is pretty much the XB1's Wii U GamePad. It partially or wholly contributes to making a system $100-150 more expensive than it should be, with questionable value/entertainment add.

This is a really good point.

Perhaps the market is turning, and people don't want extraneous items to interfere with their games.

Last gen was the plastic instruments, accessories gen. Maybe consumer sentiment has shifted. I know I like the slimmed down, game-playing aspect of the PS4.

I, too, love my Wii U, but I can't help but wonder with your statement if MS and Nintendo are struggling for an identity much like Sony did last gen.

I've no doubt people love the UI of the XOne, but personally it does nothing for me. I'm not about to start speaking to my TV, console, lights or anything. If others like it, and it works for them, that's great. It's just not a selling point for me. Blu-ray last gen was a selling point.

360 was the gaming console last gen, and MS has lost sight of that.

 

[justsomeguy]

Exactly. If a company fucks up, they WILL get called out on it. It goes for everybody, there's no Pro-Sony, or Pro-Microsoft, or Pro-Nintendo on here.

There's definitely a good few anti-Microsoft people on this board, they are explicit about it with reference to drm and so forth, which overrides some of the debate, but generally speaking you are right, everyone gets called out on bullshit on here.

In fact that's part of the issue - very often discussions on internet forums (fora?) is crazy polarized, no room for rational discussion because of drive bys, trolls or keyboard warriors. Strong moderation helps but it's partly the nature of the beast - things are either amazing or the worst thing ever and there is often no room in the middle for reasoned debate.

 

[NullPointer]

Competition is healthy you know.

Which is why HD-DVD is doing so well, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rentahamster]

The fact that Sony went in a direction that benefited gamers' wants and needs is a direct result of competition being healthy last gen. That MS will (probably) take a temporary ass kicking and then come back with some good stuff that pleases the game consuming community is a result of healthy competition in progress.

THIS is what healthy competition looks like.


We all laughed at this in 2006, but it was one of the small steps leading to the progress we have now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2l1JTs4

Spoiler

giant enemy crab

 

[Kenai]

Yes, competition is healthy.

But it's also healthy to show a company, who tried to pull stunts with customers (always online DRM, no selling of used games and all that jazz), who's actually boss.

This is key. I don't even feel like MS really "learned". Didn't they say that the market simply wasn't ready? That makes me feel like they'd try it again if they feel they can get away with it.

I'm not really that interested in either (primarily 3DS/PC) and likely won't be for at least a year or two, but I don't see myself choosing a XB1 over a PS4 in any realistic circumstance. Besides the stunts, I just don't see it as a competent device. I don't see games that I want, I don't see features that I want, I'd have to pay extra for online and the price is terrible for a combo like that. It just wasn't made with my tastes in mind.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

I still remember the sole reason I had chose the 360 over the PS3. That reason was the Banjo trailer in 2006.

Sure Banjo and Kazooie looked kinda off in the trailer, but the promise of one of my favorite platformers of all time finally getting a third game? I was sold. Most parts of the internet believed Rare could still pull Banjo off despite their lackluster Xbox and 360 launch games.

Then 2008 came along and-

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. So much disappoint when these screens came out. It didn't help that this game was actually fun, too. This probably would have been a great new IP if they didn't slap Banjo on it. (Which imo, would have been smarter since Minecraft was such a success. This was almost a vehicle version of that).

This really made me appreciate that Sony put money towards platformers. (Ratchet, Sly Cooper, Little Big Planet to name a few). If there's one thing Microsoft should learn from Nintendo and Sony, it's that platformers are a genre that shouldn't be abysmal on your console.

It still hurts.

 

[Discotheque]

microsoft has a more interesting exclusives lineup this year for sure. but i wonder how sony will look in 2015. probably a lot better.

but 2014 is microsoft's gamewise as far as im concerned. too bad we won't be getting quantum break on pc. hopefully in the future.

 

[Steffen]

Why are there so many people who don't understand how competition works? I keep seeing shit like "sales parity benefits consumers" and "keeping Sony in check" and I'm wondering what the hell are they thinking?

Do you really believe the Xbox One should sell the same amount as the cheaper, more powerful, far better value in service (PS+ vs XBL Gold) console? There's a reason why more people are buying the PS4 over the Xbox One. People saw more value in the system and until MS improves their value proposal, it will continue to sell less than the PS4.

Also, when someone says "keeping Sony in check" do you guys completely ignore the PS1 and PS2? Or Amazon, or Steam, or any other market leader? As long as there's options, why do you think the market leader will say fuck it and lose everything?

You need to keep in mind that the only reason we currently have Best Friend Sony, cheaper PS4, and PS+ is because of Microsoft and Xbox Live. Microsoft was Sony's primary incentive to build up their network and start offering value like free rentals every month. That's what people mean by keeping Sony in check.

 

[graywolf323]

This is key. I don't even feel like MS really "learned". Didn't they say that the market simply wasn't ready? That makes me feel like they'd try it again if they feel they can get away with it.

I'm not really that interested in either (primarily 3DS/PC) and likely won't be for at least a year or two, but I don't see myself choosing a XB1 over a PS4 in any realistic circumstance. Besides the stunts, I just don't see it as a competent device. I don't see games that I want, I don't see features that I want, I'd have to pay extra for online and the price is terrible for a combo like that. It just wasn't made with my tastes in mind.

didn't Spencer just say something recently that shows Microsoft still feels the only reason it didn't work was how they tried to share the message and not the message itself?

that's the problem, they still don't get it

 

[thelatestmodel]

I'm deserting Microsoft consoles for PC. But if I couldn't afford a PC, I'd desert them for a PS4.

 

[Steffen]

I bought a xbone and PS4 at launch and I am so close to selling the xbone.
The graphical performance of titanfall has been the last straw for me. There is nothing about this console that appeals to be so I might just go PS4 and vita for the rest of this gen.
I know MS will bring some great games to the system but something I learned last gen is than most of it comes over to PS4 eventually. I also can't see any MS games performing better on the xbone.

It's a good thing you are the patient type, and have waited for the new consoles to mature before coming to this decision.

 

[Memorabilia]

only 1.7k i understand that bold claim if it was a survey of over 1mil. or something

but with that said. the ps4 is selling like hot cakes. the price per performance is above the xbox one

Polling / statistics fact: True representative samples only require a 1000 person minimum to give results accurate to within +/- ~2% margin of error. Given that most gamers and potential next gen buyers are online in some form, a Yahoo poll can be considered a representative sample. In fact, if anything I have reasons to suspect that Yahoo's typical audience would under-report real world PS4 swing rates simply because Yahoo's general user/readership has been shown in past polls to swing slightly insular, which would indicate a US / Xbox brand bias.

In other words, this is probably a fairly accurate representation of what is going on amongst even the hard core 360 fan base.

 

[Nafai1123]

You need to keep in mind that the only reason we currently have Best Friend Sony, cheaper PS4, and PS+ is because of Microsoft and Xbox Live. Microsoft was Sony's primary incentive to build up their network and start offering value like free rentals every month. That's what people mean by keeping Sony in check.

And PS+ should be MS's primary incentive for dropping the paywall BS and offering newer games every month with the subscription.

 

[Steffen]

And PS+ should be MS's primary incentive for dropping the paywall BS and offering newer games every month with the subscription.

Exactly! I really hope someone shakes things up in Redmond and these changes happen.

 

[LowEndTorque]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

Official Sony board in action.

 

[Mass Effect]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

Oh, you mean back when everyone was shitting on Sony constantly (mostly deservedly so)?

Or did that not exist in your mind?

 

[Squalor]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

I don't think you know what competition is.

This is competition, and, currently, Sony is kicking Microsoft's ass. But it's a long race, of course.

Both companies are competing on different, but fair playing fields. Sony just played the game better.

If anything, Microsoft participates more often in anti-competitive practices by throwing bags of money at publishers for third-party exclusives and timed exclusivity.

 

[Derekloffin]

Polling / statistics fact: True representative samples only require a 1000 person minimum to give results accurate to within +/- ~2% margin of error. Given that most gamers and potential next gen buyers are online in some form, a Yahoo poll can be considered a representative sample. In fact, if anything I have reasons to suspect that Yahoo's typical audience would under-report real world PS4 swing rates simply because Yahoo's general user/readership has been shown in past polls to swing slightly insular, which would indicate a US / Xbox brand bias.

In other words, this is probably a fairly accurate representation of what is going on amongst even the hard core 360 fan base.

Uh, no. Statistically, a sample size of a 1000 is only within that kind of accuracy if it is truly random, which actually is pretty much impossible for human opinion sampling. Without the random part, the sample has to increase dramatically generally before it starts reaching those levels of certainty. In fact, you can have samples approaching total population, if they aren't random, or at least taking some preventative measures to ensure representation, they still can be horribly skewed.

 

[PJV3]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

I started coming to this place after the PS3 launch, it wasn't very pretty with plenty of Sony fans having meltdowns in the face of pretty widespread dislike for the console and Playstation leadership.

MS have brought this on themselves, this isn't a den of rabid Sony ponies.

 

[robertsan21]

The hate that MS is getting from this forum lately is breathtaking. I prefered it before it became the official sony board. Competition is healthy you know.

MS deserve the hate, simple as that so no wonder this has turned into a hate MS board, for now.

Anti consumer moves by companies dont go down smooth here on GAF.