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[Dragonborn]

I disagree. The list of their lies was long. Pushing Blu-Ray down everyones throats was as silly as mandatory Kinect. Dem royalties. We had to suffer through that useless Blu-Ray Versus HD-DVD war.

Playstation Home, the long list of horrible overhyped games, Sixaxis, PSN being broken beyond belief, Phil Harrison touting PS3 outselling 360 even with no games, crazy Ken calling the competition Xbox 1,5.

Come the hell on. Watch the E3 2006 recap and watch the deceit. It was a long con. Jesus christ.

I don't disagree. I've said before that they deserved every bit of backlash they got sn2d it was for the better. Had everyone taken it quietely, they would have tried the same with the PS4

All I'm saying is that, at the time, the hardware provided excellent value for me and for anyone looking to get into bluray and ultimately, I'm glad they went with it since without Bluray we may not have gotten some of the amazing games we got later in its life cycle

Would you say a situation where a system is supposedly a very good value, but also struggles to sell relative to its only two competitors during the window of its life where the justification for that "value" was meaningful suggests something about that line of thinking?

Yup, it suggested bluray wasnt as big a deal and in fact it never caught on like DVD.

I'm speaking mostly for myself here, and for me (I really wanted a bluray player at the time, it blew my mind) it was a good value.

I won't say that they didn't screw up bad, since they absolutely did, but at the same time I'm glad they didn't stick to DVD. It's hard to decide how to feel about it.

Without bluray some of the later games may not have been possible or perhaps not as great. I don't know, in hindsight it was a terrible business decision but perhaps not the worst thing for games. It's hard to say

Ultimately, once Sony fixed the issues it did well, but that doesn't mean it had a very rocky first year.

 

[Gestault]

People seem to forget what a great deal the PS3 was. Blurays back then cost almost 1000 bucks or more so getting a PS3 for 600 was amazing.

Was it the right choice? No, but I'm sure as heck glad I didn't have to dish out 1000 bucks for bluray

Would you say a situation where a system is supposedly a very good value, but also struggles to sell relative to its only two competitors during the window of its life where the justification for that "value" was meaningful suggests something about that line of thinking?

 

[Winterfang]

which was worse from a "anti-consumer" perspective? sony with the PS3 at the beginning of last gen or microsoft with the xbox one this gen?

Microsoft was decidedly anti-consumer because of a certain vision.
Sony was just incredibly arrogant with some bad ideas.

Microsoft turn it around in less than a year.
Sony took until 2008.

 

[Curufinwe]

Microsoft was decidedly anti-consumer because of a certain vision.
Sony was just incredibly arrogant with some bad ideas.

Microsoft turn it around in less than a year.
Sony took until 2008.

Sony could not bring down the price of the PS3 any quicker than they did. The comparison to MS changing their policies is disingenuous.

 

[Gestault]

Sony could not bring down the price of the PS3 any quicker than they did. The comparison to MS changing their policies is disingenuous.

Wouldn't this point in itself make clear the answer to the question of which was a deeper problem in terms of consumer impact? If one problem is so minimal that you think they can't even be compared?

 

[Winterfang]

Sony could not bring down the price of the PS3 any quicker than they did. The comparison to MS changing their policies is disingenuous.

There's no point to make, I'm answering the poster question over which one was more anti-consumer.

 

[coldone]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

 

[blame space]

these shelves sound unstable

 

[Suikoguy]

these shelves sound unstable

Hopefully they don't have any magazines on them.

 

[BeforeU]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

 

[VGChampion]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

That's why I'm not buying one yet. I was tempted to pick up that Titanfall bundle with the year of Live but I skipped thinking there would be a better deal later on. It dropping to $400 w/o a kinect is not a better deal at the moment. As long as I can find a nice little bundle before the Master Chief collection comes out I'll be good.

 

[Gestault]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

Ah yes, the "it's actually a price increase" theory. If sales decrease in response, I guess you'll be right.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I don't like that they have the Breaking Bad kid doing a commercial for a Kinectless XBONE that shows him using Kinect voice commands for every action.

Small text disclaimer or not, it's sleazy.

 

[Winterfang]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

I don't understand. Should't we be happy? People complained about a 399$ Kinectless Xbox since launched, Gamestop says it's selling well. Why is not a Win/Win situation? Why are people mad the console is selling?

 

[CharminUltra]

But I didn't say which one is worse, only that a worse console exists. This is irrefutable because the probability that two consoles are exactly equally good, by any measure, is approaching zero.

So then your previous comment is thoroughly useless. Good job.

 

[shanew21]

I don't like that they have the Breaking Bad kid doing a commercial for a Kinectless XBONE that shows him using Kinect voice commands for every action.

Small text disclaimer or not, it's sleazy.

Kinda like Destiny's "Only On Playstation DLC! Exclusive exclusive exclusive!"
(actually a timed exclusive)

The marketing this gen has just been flat out terrible on both sides with regards to deception.

 

[rokkerkory]

I don't understand. Should't we be happy? People complained about a 399$ Kinectless Xbox since launched, Gamestop says it's selling well. Why is not a Win/Win situation? Why are people mad the console is selling?

People love to put others down so they can raise themselves.

 

[coldone]

I don't understand. Should we be happy? People complained about a 399$ Kinectless Xbox since launched, Gamestop says it's selling well. Why is not a Win/Win situation? Why are people mad the console is selling?

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

 

[CharminUltra]

Hopefully they don't have any magazines on them.

Nice shelves you got there. It'd be a shame if someone were to push them...

 

[boredandlazy]

I disagree. The list of their lies was long. Pushing Blu-Ray down everyones throats was as silly as mandatory Kinect. Dem royalties. We had to suffer through that useless Blu-Ray Versus HD-DVD war.

Playstation Home, the long list of horrible overhyped games, Sixaxis, PSN being broken beyond belief, Phil Harrison touting PS3 outselling 360 even with no games, crazy Ken calling the competition Xbox 1,5.

Come the hell on. Watch the E3 2006 recap and watch the deceit. It was a long con. Jesus christ.

Microsoft suddenly deciding to support HD-DVD was one of the main reasons the 'war' lasted so long. Blaming Sony for that is ridiculous.
Pushing Blu-Ray down our throats? There's a possibility we'd still be using DVD for games if Sony hadn't included it in the PS3. Long term gain for short term pain was behind that decision, and that decision brought better games to the PS3 as far as I'm concerned. What benefits did Kinect really bring to XBox?

 

[Winterfang]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

PS4 is 399$ + Game= 460$ also. Some people just wanted Kinect to go away, it represented everything bad with Microsoft and stuff like that.

 

[Dice]

I have a PC for power so if I got a console it would be for the exclusives, and right now xbone is killing it for exclusives. I guess I've drifted away from JRPGs and other such "massive" games. Ain't nobody got time for that. The controller is better too.

 

[Anion]

I disagree. The list of their lies was long. Pushing Blu-Ray down everyones throats was as silly as mandatory Kinect. Dem royalties. We had to suffer through that useless Blu-Ray Versus HD-DVD war.

Playstation Home, the long list of horrible overhyped games, Sixaxis, PSN being broken beyond belief, Phil Harrison touting PS3 outselling 360 even with no games, crazy Ken calling the competition Xbox 1,5.

Come the hell on. Watch the E3 2006 recap and watch the deceit. It was a long con. Jesus christ.

Lol wow. I forgot all about this stuff actually.

 

[Gestault]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

I'm sorry you're upset that some people are reportedly choosing to make a purchase you don't approve of. There's a range of reasons, even taking into account your outlook on the situation, for people to make this decision. Personal finance, games, policy reactions, etc. Also, you seem to put an inordinate focus on a temporary promotional offer.

If your criticism really is more than being upset that people are making a purchase you don't approve of, we'll see the sales numbers drop alongside what you consider a price increase. I think that's unlikely, and I think how you conceptually model purchasing decisions has very little to do with the behavior of people actually seeking out entertainment.

 

[icespide]

I don't see either of them as "anti-consumer". They were products with flaws of various types. I'm not sure why either of them would be considered "anti-consumer" though, since the flaws were known up front before purchase. Customers knew the PS3 was $500-$600. Customers fairly long in advance that disc resales would have been limited on Xbox One, and that an internet connection would be required to use it. Then again, I differentiate "flawed product" and "anti-consumer product".

The only things I would consider "anti-consumer" would be the RROD stuff, and the OtherOS stuff, since those were things that affected customers that had already paid money for those products.

good points. "anti-consumer" was perhaps a poor choice of words

 

[HoodWinked]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

not sure what you're getting at people buy cellphones with 2 year plans for hundreds of dollars more because they think they're getting a free phone and, QVC is a thing as well.

it really just ends up being what people perceive as a good value. just the 399 number has a huge impact. honestly you pretty much just sound like someone who stealth insulting anyone who must be 'foolish' enough to buy a xb1. but whatever i guess.

 

[PBY]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

lol okay

 

[Chobel]

PS4 is 399$ + Game= 460$ also. Some people just wanted Kinect to go away, it represented everything bad with Microsoft and stuff like that.

I don't see what does this has to do with PS4. For someone who wants "Xbox One" the $450 Titanfall bundle has better value than This new SKU.

EDIT: as Gestault pointed out, it was temporary promotion and probably ended before this new SKU was announced, so many people didn't have the choice.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

Have you considered standing outside your local GameStop to inform the brainless masses to not buy the Xbox One™?

 

[Anion]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

To be honest, people saw the insane value after the xbox kinectless version was announced for $400. Now that package is being sold for $500.

 

[coldone]

Have you considered standing outside your local GameStop to inform the brainless masses to not buy the Xbox One™?

I am saying more people should have bought the $450 game bundles. They had Forza, Titanfall bundles.

Now after buying the $399 xbox one what are they doing with it. Take it home, connect it to the TV and do what ?. Most of the folks land up picking up a game before leaving store. So they probably spent $460 on day 1.

 

[Shosai]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

Maybe Titanfall wasn't a value add-on for them?

Microsoft suddenly deciding to support HD-DVD was one of the main reasons the 'war' lasted so long. Blaming Sony for that is ridiculous.
Pushing Blu-Ray down our throats? There's a possibility we'd still be using DVD for games if Sony hadn't included it in the PS3. Long term gain for short term pain was behind that decision, and that decision brought better games to the PS3 as far as I'm concerned. What benefits did Kinect really bring to XBox?

Microsoft's support of an HD-DVD peripheral was a non-factor in the format war, as that thing didn't sell. It was Toshiba and the movie studios that decided how long HD-DVD would live on the market.

Also, the only impact Blu-ray had on game development was scuttling the need for multiple disks. As that generation went on, both consoles became more and more dependent on mandatory installs, as the disk read speeds on both consoles weren't at all sufficient. Even Kojima had to split MGS4's installation into five parts in order to circumvent Sony's policies on maximum permitted install sizes.

 

[Lynn616]

I am saying more people should have bought the $450 game bundles. They had Forza, Titanfall bundles.

Now after buying the $399 xbox one what are they doing with it. Take it home, connect it to the TV and do what ?. Most of the folks land up picking up a game before leaving store. So they probably spent $460 on day 1.

Maybe they didnt want Forza or Titanfall or Kinect.

 

[twobear]

That's exactly what I said, arrogance.

The PS3 at the price it released was an amazing deal, for the bluray alone. On top of that it supported all kinds of media, and had PS2 BC. So yes, it was actually quite literally them selling us a machine at bargain price (as you said, let's not rewrite history)

They couldn't fix it as fast as MS because price was the issue and they had to get the price down before they could cut it. The original PS3 cost Sony 800+ but they sold it at 500/600.

That's nothing compared to what MS tried to do. Not even in the same ballpark. At the very least Sony had some level of reason to be arrogant, MS didn't ad they came in third.

I don't know what to say. If you think that we should have been thankful to Sony for the incredible value that was a pointless CPU architecture we didn't need and a storage format that could have been an optional extra at virtually no loss to the quality of games then whatever. The PS3 served Sony's interests first and foremost, and in that regard it was born from the same cynical attitude towards consumers as the Xbone.

 

[shandy706]

Now after buying the $399 xbox one what are they doing with it. Take it home, connect it to the TV and do what ?.

Play the free games and or/use media apps?

 

[sensi97]

Microsoft was decidedly anti-consumer because of a certain vision.
Sony was just incredibly arrogant with some bad ideas.

Microsoft turn it around in less than a year.
Sony took until 2008.

The $399/€399 PS3 40GB was in 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_PlayStation_3_SKUs), about 1 year after US launch and 7 months for EU.
Or are you talking about something else ?

 

[Exploratory]

Personally I'd rather get the Xbox One w/ Kinect for 399.99 deal.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I think it'll be smart to wait and see how bad their sales numbers get and what kind of bundle deals get thrown out there.

I'd be all over a $400 xb1 with either a year of gold included or halo collection. Probably going to see good bundles on black Friday if sales don't pick up over summer.

 

[weevles]

I liked what MS had to show at this year's E3. The new price and making Kinect optional is tempting to me, but I personally am going to hold off getting an XBO until at least the holidays (in case there's a Halo Collection bundle or some other interesting bundle). If not this year, then maybe the first redesign into a slimmer-sized device.

 

[Jaxyfoo]

I bet Microsoft get in a good deal of trouble with advertsising standards in the UK. None stop use of Kinect voice commands from start to finish to advertise the kinectless version.

"Xbox snap to Tv" "Xbox snap to skype" Gah mine must be broken, doh!

 

[statham]

I think it'll be smart to wait and see how bad their sales numbers get and what kind of bundle deals get thrown out there.

I'd be all over a $400 xb1 with either a year of gold included or halo collection. Probably going to see good bundles on black Friday if sales don't pick up over summer.

Sales could pick up and you will still see bundles on Black Friday, for all three systems.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Still waiting for a white Xbox One before I bite. Just preordered the Destiny PS4 combo and I'd like for my next gen consoles to match, even though my Wii U is black.

Spoiler

In before Wii U not being next gen.

 

[Winterfang]

The $399/&#8364;399 PS3 40GB was in 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_PlayStation_3_SKUs), about 1 year after US launch and 7 months for EU.
Or are you talking about something else ?

Yes I'm talking about the Sony relaunch. PlayStation Slim, different font, Kevin Butler ad captain. That's when Sony started making changes.

Still waiting for a white Xbox One before I bite.

Me too, if anything this E3 just show me that this consoles came out a year too early.

 

[Tobor]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

The new Xbox is better for the environment. You don't have to worry about throwing the Kinect in the garbage.

 

[CharminUltra]

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[soul creator]

good points. "anti-consumer" was perhaps a poor choice of words

Sorry if I came off snippy, and didn't really mean to come at you directly, but it's just one of those phrases I see thrown around a lot in these discussions that I find really weird, lol. Things that used to just be "bad ideas" or now "anti-consumer ideas". I guess it's how we subtly try to make our disappointment be more noticeable, since "this product is bad, I won't buy it" is too boring now, haha.

 

[boredandlazy]

Maybe Titanfall wasn't a value add-on for them?



Microsoft's support of an HD-DVD peripheral was a non-factor in the format war, as that thing didn't sell. It was Toshiba and the movie studios that decided how long HD-DVD would live on the market.

Also, the only impact Blu-ray had on game development was scuttling the need for multiple disks. As that generation went on, both consoles became more and more dependent on mandatory installs, as the disk read speeds on both consoles weren't at all sufficient. Even Kojima had to split MGS4's installation into five parts in order to circumvent Sony's policies on maximum permitted install sizes.

I don't agree with that. Microsoft's backing of HD-DVD may not have resonated with consumers, but it helped prop up the corporations backing HD-DVD and was probably a factor is movie studios like Paramount siding with HD-DVD. Studios like Paramount siding with HD-DVD prolonged the format war by 12-18 months.

 

[RealityPales]

Because as it stands, PS4 is #9 and Xbox One is #42 on Amazon...

 

[AgentP]

I am not mad.. just surprised how idiotic consumers are. I really want to hear from folks who bought these $399 console, what games do they play.

$399 + Game = $460
Kinect + Game + Xbox = $450 << no one bought it. it was sitting on store shelf

What is the reason they are buying now and not before ?.

They aren't. The $450 TF bundle was at #10 on Amazon. The $399 SKU is in the 40s.

 

[Solideliquid]

Compared to Sony and MS... I think the guys who are buying the $399 Xbone are the biggest idiots in the world. They were selling Xbox + Kinect + Titanfall for $450. It was amazing value

Even if you buy a $399 Xbox one now.. what are they going to do with it ?. Pay an extra $60 to buy Titanfall or just play peggle 2. What are these idots doing with their consoles any way ?

Maybe there's someone out there that didn't want to pay $500 at launch and maybe that person doesn't like Titanfall. Who knows.