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[commedieu]

Be a sane person and

call the police
talk to him
go to a public place (store)

Violence should never be the first answer to anything. You need to stop pretending like the only option Trayvon had was physical assault. Both sides we're at fault in this situation and its a shame what happened but self defense laws exist for a reason.

Wow

Its weird that Trayvon has no right to defend himself, even if sims story is true about him jumping from the bushes in the darkness... he was 17. Zimmerman had a gun on hhim. Surely you expect an adult with a history of violence to behave like your Marge Simpson post, and not the unarmed teen? Right.


Think about what you're saying.

So much physical assault that Trayvon had none of Zimmerman blood on his hands from breaking his nose and covering his bloody mouth while beating him.

I'm sure you're not aware that Zimmerman has a history of lying. And dressing up a scuffle as an all out assault is ridiculous, as if that word makes it justified. No, only one responsible for killing is the murderer with the gun who profiled a kid and didn't listen to 911 dispatch and followed a teenager around.

 

[Chariot]

Be a sane person and

call the police
talk to him
go to a public place (store)

Violence should never be the first answer to anything. You need to stop pretending like the only option Trayvon had was physical assault. Both sides we're at fault in this situation and its a shame what happened but self defense laws exist for a reason.

Self defense? What about Trayvons right of self defense?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Be a sane person and

call the police
talk to him
go to a public place (store)

Violence should never be the first answer to anything. You need to stop pretending like the only option Trayvon had was physical assault. Both sides we're at fault in this situation and its a shame what happened but self defense laws exist for a reason.

Blame his mother most of all for having a black child in this fucked up place..bitch knew better..George is off the hook. Both sides..

 

[Van Owen]

Also what's with all this high horse riding about with people being criticizing others for taking some joy in Zimmerman being in debt? Is being in debt some kind of 'cruel and unusual punishment' for someone who stalked and killed a child?

I realize you have an agenda, but isn't the "child" stuff a bit much?

If a 17 year old had ever raped or killed someone you loved, would you call them a child?

 

[joedan]

I realize you have an agenda, but isn't the "child" stuff a bit much?

If a 17 year old had ever raped or killed someone you loved, would you call them a child?

Yes I would.

 

[Chariot]

I realize you have an agenda, but isn't the "child" stuff a bit much?

If a 17 year old had ever raped or killed someone you loved, would you call them a child?

If a 12 year old ever raped or killed someone, would you call them a child?
I already posted it, people under 18 are childs by law.

Plus: when did Trayvon kill or rape somebody?

 

[pompidu]

George made it worse by chasing a kid. So a kid, walking home from the store, clearly scared because of the fact that he ran away from George, is equally as at fault as the guy who chased him? What would you do in this situation? Submit to the creepy guy following and then chasing you?

I wouldnt face him and question his motives. Id gtfo and call police.

They're both first degree misdemeanors, actually.

And no, the only person who made the situation worse was Zimmerman. Trayvon was just reacting to a threat against his safety, first by moving away from it, then by fighting it. That's not making the situation worse. That's exactly how anyone should handle things.


I wouldn't convict Trayvon of assault because he was acting in self defense. I'd convict George of murder because he wasn't acting in self defense. I reject the notion that both individuals have the right to self defense outside of extremely rare cases involving mutual misunderstandings.

There are two different things, regardless if they are misdemeanors. So he reacted to his saftey by physically engaging somebody? Oxymoron.

Context. He stalked with a weapon. Yes, you can own a weapon. But we shouldn't encourage gun owners to stalk people. The verdict seems to justify his actions to some. Context makes a world of difference.

No one ignore the assault, we just don't believe gun owners should chase people around. The assault was precipitated by the stalking. It's aggressive. He had no viable reason to be there with a gun.


Sweet tea connoisseur.

I dont believe anyone should stalk anyone, regardless of gun ownership.

 

[Big Baybee]

Be a sane person and

call the police
talk to him
go to a public place (store)

Violence should never be the first answer to anything. You need to stop pretending like the only option Trayvon had was physical assault. Both sides we're at fault in this situation and its a shame what happened but self defense laws exist for a reason.

Insanity. So what about Trayvon's right to self defense? Why does Zimmerman have the option to do it but not Trayvon?

 

[Crisco]

Yeah fuck him., and I called this a while ago after the verdict first came down. This guy is a criminal piece of shit, and despite being acquitted, his life was still ruined by the legal process. He's going to end up breaking the law again, probably against a white person this time, and will end up in jail eventually. Just a matter of time.

 

[Van Owen]

Yes I would.

You're a lot more forgiving than me then, because I would have a hard time excusing that sort of behavior with "well they're just a child".

 

[Big Baybee]

You're a lot more forgiving than me then, because I would have a hard time excusing that sort of behavior with "well they're just a child".

Trayvon didn't rape or kill anyone though..........

 

[Van Owen]

If a 12 year old ever raped or killed someone, would you call them a child?
I already posted it, people under 18 are childs by law.

Plus: when did Trayvon kill or rape somebody?

You can be tried as an adult at 17.

And I never said Trayvon raped or killed anyone.

 

[Chariot]

You're a lot more forgiving than me then, because I would have a hard time excusing that sort of behavior with "well they're just a child".

Who said anything of that? And what kind of behavour?
The child was running away and was at some point catched by some scary guy with a gun in the middle of the night.

You can be tried as an adult at 17.

And I never said Trayvon raped or killed anyone.

"If a 17 year old had ever raped or killed someone you loved, would you call them a child?"
You made it a point. Or did you often say things that you want not be associated with your comment?
Also "tried like an adult" still don't take their status as childs.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Be a sane person and

call the police
talk to him
go to a public place (store)

Violence should never be the first answer to anything. You need to stop pretending like the only option Trayvon had was physical assault. Both sides we're at fault in this situation and its a shame what happened but self defense laws exist for a reason.

1. And do what? He's in an unfamiliar neighborhood, he might not even be able to tell them what street he's on or what direction he's heading
2. According to his friend, he did try talking to george. "Why are you following me?" Then George said "Why are you here?" Then some shoving occurred, Trayvon said "Get off! Get off!," and the line went dead.
3. again, he's in an unfamiliar neighborhood. It's a gated community. He doesn't know the layout of the streets and stores, you'd rather he walk around blindly and risk getting lost?
4. Violence was not his first answer. First he tried walking away. He then tried making it impossible for George to continue following him (well, unless george wanted to drive off road). George responded by parking and getting out of his car to chase him.

 

[Freakinchair]

Insanity. So what about Trayvon's right to self defense? Why does Zimmerman have the option to do it but not Trayvon?

Did you read my post? Trayvon was the one who initiated the conflict - you're not defending yourself while assaulting someone.

 

[Van Owen]

Who said anything of that? And what kind of behavour?
The child was running away and was at some point catched by some scary guy with a gun in the middle of the night.

Jesus Christ, I'm just saying in general do people consider a 17 year old as a "child" 100% of the time?

It's like a hypothetical situation a complete mystery to you.

 

[Sanke__]

Maybe he can live with Bill O'Reilly? That would make an interesting reality show.

Only if you combine it with Saw.

 

[joedan]

You can be tried as an adult at 17.

And I never said Trayvon raped or killed anyone.

Do you think Trayvon is an innocent child?

 

[Big Baybee]

Did you read my post? Trayvon was the one who initiated the conflict - you're not defending yourself while assaulting someone.

Trayvon did not initiate the conflict. Does being chased by a stranger not count as conflict???

 

[Freakinchair]

Blame his mother most of all for having a black child in this fucked up place..bitch knew better..George is off the hook. Both sides..

what??

 

[Chariot]

Jesus Christ, I'm just saying in general do people consider a 17 year old as a "child" 100% of the time?

It's like a hypothetical situation a complete mystery to you.

Oh, than I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about Trayvon, since the poster you quoted talked about Trayvon and he is part of this thread. But apperently you just wanted to talk about a hypothetical child here. I am so sorry.

 

[Big Baybee]

Trayvon would have the right if Zimmerman was the initiator of violence. And there's more than enough reasonable doubt that he wasn't.

You don't have to be physically assaulted to be able to defend yourself.

 

[rexor0717]

For a second I though this was about this guy

He is my favorite guy on TV.

 

[Van Owen]

Do you think Trayvon is an innocent child?

I don't consider anyone that is 17 a "child", but he was a minor.

I'm not going to debate his innocence since there's no point and the case has already been decided.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I said this before and caught some flak for it but fuck it I'll say it again.

Replace Trayvon with a 17 year old white girl Zimmerman would have been in jail by the end of business day.

Just read the entire story and every instance of "Trayvon" replace it with white girl and see if people defend Zimmerman.

 

[GaimeGuy]

There are two different things, regardless if they are misdemeanors. So he reacted to his saftey by physically engaging somebody? Oxymoron.

He only physically engaged someone after that someone obstructed his attempts to disengage. What the fuck is he supposed to do? When is he finally able to defend himself? When does Trayvon get the right to stand up to someone that's singled him out for kidnapping, mugging, or god knows what?

 

[Killing_Joke]

Trayvon assaulted George now? The only proof we have is George. The guy who shot the kid and was trying to escape jail time. Find it hilarious people believe any part of his story. Already said but even if he did throw the first punch. He had the LEGAL right to. 1. George followed him multiple times even after trayvon ran towards his home 2. George had a fucking gun. Its sickening anyone tries to spin it as Trayvons fault.

 

[joedan]

I don't consider anyone that is 17 a "child", but he was a minor.

I'm not going to debate his innocence since there's no point and the case has already been decided.

It's a discussion board, not a courtroom. Whether the court has rendered a verdict doesn't prevent us from having a discussion about the case. Do you think Trayvon was innocent?

Better yet, let me use your term 'minor'. Do you think Trayvon was an "innocent minor"?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

what??

Why am I going to blame the kid for freaking out while being followed? Why would I fault him for wanting to protect himself? Have you ever been followed? I have..it's not fun. Unfortunately, being black and walking where I don't belong (earth) has this kind of result.

I've had guns pointed at me on many a Florida street, just for visiting a classmate for a project or to play NES. I'm not down with the "both at fault" crowd..so, fuck it, blame his mama too if we're going that route..

 

[Van Owen]

It's a discussion board, not a courtroom. Whether the court has rendered a verdict doesn't prevent us from having a discussion about the case. Do you think Trayvon was innocent?

lol, well I already got banned in another thread about the case while trying to discuss it, so I'd rather not.

 

[Big Baybee]

It's absolutely amazing that people say Trayvon initiated the conflict. Absolutely amazing.

So where do you draw the line? Is it justified simply by someone asking "What are you doing here?"

I think "dude getting out of car and chasing me on foot" is crossing that line.

 

[joedan]

lol, well I already got banned in another thread about the case while trying to discuss it, so I'd rather not.

Cool.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I said this before and caught some flak for it but fuck it I'll say it again.

Replace Trayvon with a 17 year old white girl Zimmerman would have been in jail by the end of business day.

Just read the entire story and every instance of "Trayvon" replace it with white girl and see if people defend Zimmerman.

I mean..there's always ONE asshole out there. Besides that? Yeah, you'd probably be right.

 

[The Technomancer]

So where do you draw the line? Is it justified simply by someone asking "What are you doing here?"

Also, I think it's a bit erroneous that people think Trayvon had no involvement in escalating the conflict. According to Rachel Jeantel he was back near his house following Zimmerman's spotting of him (which Trayvon was aware of), yet after getting there he doubled back and headed right back to that same area across the neighborhood where Zimmerman was originally?

He of course had no obligation to "go home" just because Zimmerman saw him, but still, what? Someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this, but it sounds like a confrontation of some type was certainly intended even if not meant to be violent.

Yeah, perhaps Trayvon decided to ask the guy following him "dude why the fuck are you following me?"

 

[pompidu]

He only physically engaged someone after that someone obstructed his attempts to disengage. What the fuck is he supposed to do? When is he finally able to defend himself? When does Trayvon get the right to stand up to someone that's singled him out for kidnapping, mugging, or god knows what?

I have forgot most details but did zimmerman physically keep him from going anywhere? Did zimmerman back him into a corner?

 

[Mr. Patch]

Somehow, a high school kid who was talking on the phone and walking home from a gas station with a drink and candy isn't innocent in this situation.

Somehow, a high school kid's judgement is scrutinized more than a grown ass man with a gun in this situation.

 

[Big Baybee]

I have forgot most details but did zimmerman physically keep him from going anywhere? Did zimmerman back him into a corner?

What do you think the end result was when Zimmerman caught up to him? If he didn't plan on detaining him in some way then why did he go after him when Trayvon ran?

 

[Rastafarian42]

Wow what goes around comes around lol.

 

[pompidu]

What do you think the end result was when Zimmerman caught up to him? If he didn't plan on detaining him in some way then why did he go after him when Trayvon ran?

Did he physically restrain him?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Somehow, a high school kid who was talking on the phone and walking home from a gas station with a drink and candy isn't innocent in this situation.

Somehow, a high school kid's judgement is scrutinized more than a grown ass man with a gun in this situation.

 

[Freakinchair]

It's absolutely amazing that people say Trayvon initiated the conflict. Absolutely amazing.



I think "dude getting out of car and chasing me on foot" is crossing that line.

All the evidence points to it - but I'm just looking at things logically based on whats presented. Emotions tend to run pretty high when discussing this case. I'm definitely a firm believer that both parties we're definitely at fault and its horrible that the conflict escalated as it did. They could have probably got Zimmerman on a manslaughter charge if they really tried.

 

[pompidu]

Somehow, a high school kid who was talking on the phone and walking home from a gas station with a drink and candy isn't innocent in this situation.

Somehow, a high school kid's judgement is scrutinized more than a grown ass man with a gun in this situation.

Its 100% zimmermans fault the kid is dead, its all him. But thats not the discussion here, the discussion is how the law sees it.

 

[Eidan]

I realize you have an agenda, but isn't the "child" stuff a bit much?

If a 17 year old had ever raped or killed someone you loved, would you call them a child?

What the fuck kind of comparison is this?

 

[Toxi]

I don't consider anyone that is 17 a "child", but he was a minor.

I'm not going to debate his innocence since there's no point and the case has already been decided.

17 years old is not old enough to vote or serve on a jury.

A minor is a child. Period. If someone is not trusted to even have any say in our government or courts because of his maturity, he is a child.

 

[KingK]

Did you read my post? Trayvon was the one who initiated the conflict - you're not defending yourself while assaulting someone.

The fuck is this? How is he the one who initiated the conflict when he tried just leaving the situation until Zimmerman got out of his car and chased him down on foot, stalking him in the middle of the night? I guarantee if it was a 17 year old white kid being followed through a suburb in the middle of the night by an adult black man armed with a gun who pursued the kid on foot after the kid tried to get away, pretty much nobody on the jury would have been questioning the kid's right to defend himself and the man would be in prison for murder.

He only physically engaged someone after that someone obstructed his attempts to disengage. What the fuck is he supposed to do? When is he finally able to defend himself? When does Trayvon get the right to stand up to someone that's singled him out for kidnapping, mugging, or god knows what?

Right. At what point is it acceptable to defend oneself when being stalked in the middle of the night by a suspicious stranger (who it turns out was also armed)? Trayvon did the responsible thing trying to get away, but Zimmerman recklessly chased him through the neighborhood. After trying and being unable to leave the situation entirely, I think he would have been justified in using self-defense.

 

[speculawyer]

17 years old is not old enough to vote or serve on a jury.

A minor is a child. Period. If someone is not trusted to even have any say in our government or courts because of his maturity, he is a child.

Just wait until you get older . . . you'll soon be considering 22 year olds as children.

 

[KingK]

So where do you draw the line? Is it justified simply by someone asking "What are you doing here?"

Also, I think it's a bit erroneous that people think Trayvon had no involvement in escalating the conflict. According to Rachel Jeantel he was back near his house following Zimmerman's spotting of him (which Trayvon was aware of), yet after getting there he doubled back and headed right back to that same area across the neighborhood where Zimmerman was originally?

He of course had no obligation to "go home" just because Zimmerman saw him, but still, what? Someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this, but it sounds like a confrontation of some type was certainly intended even if not meant to be violent.

Eh, it's understandable to double back imo. If I were in that situation with a stranger stalking me at night, I'd be very hesitant to let them see me just walk in through my front door and know where I live in case they're planning on coming to my home where my family is for god knows what.

 

[joedan]

Its 100% zimmermans fault the kid is dead, its all him. But thats not the discussion here, the discussion is how the law sees it.

No that's not the discussion here. The discussion here is about Zimmerman now being in debt after being acquitted and how people feel about it. Zimmerman defenders are who want to make the discussion about "how the law sees it" - something they can hide behind.

 

[Jagernaut]

All the evidence points to it - but I'm just looking at things logically based on whats presented. Emotions tend to run pretty high when discussing this case. I'm definitely a firm believer that both parties we're definitely at fault and its horrible that the conflict escalated as it did. They could have probably got Zimmerman on a manslaughter charge if they really tried.

The only evidence that Trayvon was the initial aggressor is George's word. We don't know exactly what happened. Possible scenarios:

1. George could have tried to detain him physically and when Trayvon resisted they started fighting. George is losing the fight so he draws his gun and shoots.

2. George flashes or pulls out his gun to intimidate Trayvon and keep him from leaving. Trayvon decides not to wait to be shot and goes for the gun. They fight and Trayvon is shot.

 

[JDSN]

Why are people arguing with the liar racist dude that got banned twice during the Zimmerman trial?