I'm trying to get Big Band from Skullgirls done but this danged career keeps getting in the way.
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Group wants anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con
- Thread starter Exile20
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I'm trying to get Big Band from Skullgirls done but this danged career keeps getting in the way.
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
Meant as a joke or not, this kind of statement hurts.
We have to stop acting like women are some fringe part of fandoms, because they aren't. There were tons and tons of females of all ages and fandom levels at SDCC this year, just like there are at every other convention. Making the statement that there are few of them, either seriously or humorously, only serves to help support the idea that they "aren't a big deal" in relation to the entire population of that particular fandom.
Things can only get better when we acknowledge how many women there are involved in X, and let me know that it is not their own exclusive little club, and they need to start understanding that and acting appropriately.
Devolution
Member
Shaming the cosplayers for what they wear instead of addressing the actions and attitudes of the assholes who harass everybody.
Nice priorities as usual.
Nice priorities as usual.
Bomber Bob
Banned
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
Only if they cosplay as Lara Croft
No one deserves to be harassed or touched without permission regardless of gender. And just because someone is dressed in something sexy or almost nude doesn't give you the right to touch or harass.
As a side note, I wonder why females who feel comics and games objectify women , then will come out and dress in costumes that they find objectifying. This doesn't mean people have the right to harass them. I'm just bringing it up as a side thing. I just find female representation in these kind of things weird. Like how often they fall into the role of male power fantasy and yet how popular they seem to be with female cosplayers.
If that last part of my post is ignorant, I apologize. It's just something I've always wondered about.
It is ignorant. "Females" are not a hive mind. Some women dislike showing skin and don't mess with that stuff. Others are perfectly comfortable dressing up as Power Girl and posing at cons. It changes on an individual basis. What matters is that you respect each person's boundaries.
How would you enforce the rules though
There is always like 20+ Slave Leia's at SDCC, some really are true cosplayers and really do work on their costume, but some of the participants are just their to latch on to the sexiness part of said costume and use it to their advantage hoping for a big break....
Also SDCC has become too popular and the way to get noticed is by using the old trademark of "Sex Sells"
What's wrong with any of this?
You come off as really condescending and making assumptions. Who cares if someone is dressing up to look sexy vs. "being a true cosplayer"?
Why did you bring this up? I hope your not implying those "fake nerd girls" deserve all the sexual harassment they get at cons.
They don't "deserve" to be there or they're ruining it for everyone else... or something.
I'm not sure stripping/cosplay really have much to do with each other, but I do find it interesting that this group is essentially asking for what strippers already have: An abundantly clear policy regarding what is and is not appropriate, and an enforcement mechanism for when that policy is breached.
That's what the cosplayers want. Why can't they get the same basic protection we allow strippers?
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
That's what the cosplayers want. Why can't they get the same basic protection we allow strippers?
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
robotzombie
Member
I recall going in cosplay to AX and being surprised as to how grabby women were. Like shit man, my girlfriend is right there watching you, stop trying to take a chunk out of my ass Jesus. It's really odd how differently people interact with you simply due to a costume.
more like studguy, am i right?
I'm not sure stripping/cosplay really have much to do with each other, but I do find it interesting that this group is essentially asking for what strippers already have: An abundantly clear policy regarding what is and is not appropriate, and an enforcement mechanism for when that policy is breached.
That's what the cosplayers want. Why can't they get the same basic protection we allow strippers?
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
People will complain that it infringes on their rights to take photographs freely. I don't agree with them, but they will.
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
Not only is this incredibly dismissive, but it shows a pretty poor understanding of who show up for comic conventions.
People will complain that it infringes on their rights to take photographs freely. I don't agree with them, but they will.
Let 'em. There is no right to take photographs at a private venue, which is what comic conventions are.
This immediately sounds impossible. You would have to confiscate not just dedicated cameras but just about every single phone from every single attendee to enforce this.And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
I'm not sure stripping/cosplay really have much to do with each other, but I do find it interesting that this group is essentially asking for what strippers already have: An abundantly clear policy regarding what is and is not appropriate, and an enforcement mechanism for when that policy is breached.
That's what the cosplayers want. Why can't they get the same basic protection we allow strippers?
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
I'd imagine it's an enforcement issue. Strip clubs generally have a badass bouncer there ready to throw out and tune anyone up who flouts the policy. And he only has to deal with one small area.
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
girls should only go to the Barbie Convention right down the road. and boy am I going to be mad as hell if they try to discourage us men from going!
This immediately sounds impossible. You would have to confiscate not just dedicated cameras but just about every single phone from every single attendee to enforce this.
how is it any different from, say, a concert that has a no photos policy? it will not prevent everyone from sneaking photos but it will deter many and, while not a perfect solution, deterrence of undesired behavior is welcome.
This immediately sounds impossible. You would have to confiscate not just dedicated cameras but just about every single phone from every single attendee to enforce this.
They already have multiple areas in which you are unallowed to take pictures. They don't confiscate your cameras, they simply eject people who violate the rules. It wouldn't stop people from snapping creepshots on their phones, but it would make enforcement considerably easier -- if you're caught taking a picture outside of the photo zone, you're gone.
It's also quite possible that the event runners don't want to. It's their event and if they want to allow photography, they most certainly can.People will complain that it infringes on their rights to take photographs freely. I don't agree with them, but they will.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It should not be tolerated, but I struggle to think of how this could be effectively enforced at a convention with well over 100,000 attendees.
How would an enforcer tell the difference between someone using their phone as a camera, or using their phone to play Tiny Towers? Or is it usually obvious when someone is using their smartphone to take a picture? I guess at the very least you would notice a large group of people all pointing phones at a single person.They already have multiple areas in which you are unallowed to take pictures. They don't confiscate your cameras, they simply eject people who violate the rules. It wouldn't stop people from snapping creepshots on their phones, but it would make enforcement considerably easier -- if you're caught taking a picture outside of the photo zone, you're gone.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Theres a joke in here that I cant say on this board
Something something nerds something something virgins something something never talked to a girl something something?
That joke would neither be original nor too offensive for this board.
It should not be tolerated, but I struggle to think of how this could be effectively enforced at a convention with well over 100,000 attendees.
If it were up to me, 2 strike policy would be effective for most "minor" infractions (name calling and creep shots), 1 strike for "major" infractions (stalking and groping). If a girl complains about you, your ID tag gets scanned and put on a list somewhere (with your name/address/etc). If your tag is scanned twice for a minor or once for a major, you are banned from the con for the rest of the weekend.
Two majors or two total ejections = lifetime ban. You ban enough of the obvious, brazen clowns, the clowns in the making lose their courage and act like human fucking beings at least while they're indoors. It's the same way a club with 5-8 bouncers can control 500 patrons, and that's with alcohol involved.
It's also quite possible that the event runners don't want to. It's their event and if they want to allow photography, they most certainly can.
There still would be photography allowed, just not general photography. I would imagine that the pictures from the photo section would be better for the festival organizers anyway, since there would be a higher percentage of cosplayers to get buzz.
freenudemacusers
Member
generally it works like, 'put your phone away or leave'.How would an enforcer tell the difference between someone using their phone as a camera, or using their phone to play Tiny Towers? Or is it usually obvious when someone is using their smartphone to take a picture? I guess at the very least you would notice a large group of people all pointing phones at a single person.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Banning general photography at a convention like Comic-Con? That sounds like a quick way to get everyone to hate you/not attend/revolt not to mention being very difficult to enforce.
I saw some creepy ass people at the Montreal Comiccon, there was this tall older man, who went around with his ipad taking zoomed pics of asses whenever women in revealing outfits would pass by his booth.He would jump over his booth screaming WAIT WAITA WAIT while taking pics of the girls before they turned around them.
And there are always those guys with huge fuckoff cameras (always cheap brand, always amateur stuff, but with huuuge zooms, i guess for them size = better?) taking weird pics of the legs of the girls and so on. I saw one of them in the waiting line trying to befriend a single girl who was dressed as Elektra and he kept bugging her until she eventually told him to fuck off after she caught him sitting on the floor, taking 'stealth' pics of her legs and crotch.
My friend, who is a pro photographer, had brought her own expensive camera setup to take cool pics but gave up as female cosplayers were just constantly swarmed by people trying to take pics. Anytime the outfit would show some flesh, it was almost a riot.it sucked because we enjoyed taking pics of the super badass elaborate costumes but after 1 hour of being there, we were turned off and felt weird about asking. We didnt want to be associated with the weirdo creepo photo takers.
There were also tons of "youtube crews" who were hyper annoying people doing absolute shit interviews with the girls, it was awful and acted like they owned the place. They would ask the girls to dance or act sexy
And there are always those guys with huge fuckoff cameras (always cheap brand, always amateur stuff, but with huuuge zooms, i guess for them size = better?) taking weird pics of the legs of the girls and so on. I saw one of them in the waiting line trying to befriend a single girl who was dressed as Elektra and he kept bugging her until she eventually told him to fuck off after she caught him sitting on the floor, taking 'stealth' pics of her legs and crotch.
My friend, who is a pro photographer, had brought her own expensive camera setup to take cool pics but gave up as female cosplayers were just constantly swarmed by people trying to take pics. Anytime the outfit would show some flesh, it was almost a riot.it sucked because we enjoyed taking pics of the super badass elaborate costumes but after 1 hour of being there, we were turned off and felt weird about asking. We didnt want to be associated with the weirdo creepo photo takers.
There were also tons of "youtube crews" who were hyper annoying people doing absolute shit interviews with the girls, it was awful and acted like they owned the place. They would ask the girls to dance or act sexy
TheFightingFish
Member
I
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
I actually rather like this. I went to Emerald City Comicon last year with my young daughter who is a big comics fan. She went dressed up as Captain America and really liked people saying hi to her and telling her that her costume was great. I decided in advance that I wouldn't say yes to any pictures of her but I felt a bit like a jerk saying no to all the folks who asked. Like they were all being super polite, I don't think that a single person tried to take a picture without asking. So I felt bad making them (possibly, I have no clue what they were thinking) feel like they were being creepy or something. Having a specific area for this would have made it much easier for me to not have her picture take all the time, but to not have to make folks feel rude for asking.
Banning general photography at a convention like Comic-Con? That sounds like a quick way to get everyone to hate you/not attend/revolt not to mention being very difficult to enforce.
Considering the harassment, the attendees are already revolting.
Devolution
Member
I'm also enamored at the insistence women don't know the difference between general photography and some guy trying to take a creepshot of her ass. Stay willfully ignorant of the problem guys.
How would an enforcer tell the difference between someone using their phone as a camera, or using their phone to play Tiny Towers? Or is it usually obvious when someone is using their smartphone to take a picture? I guess at the very least you would notice a large group of people all pointing phones at a single person.
Like I said, it's obviously not perfect, but if I'm an enforcer, and a guy is pointing his camera at She-Ra's ass while she signs something, that's pretty obvious. And yes, people are that blatant. I've been attending cons for thirty years now, and am still astonished at how many man children think the normal rules of society don't apply when they walk through the convention doors.
Enforcement at cons is hard, but it's even harder when you have vague, unclear instructions for guests and enforcement staff. It's why several big name writers and artists have started refusing to go to conventions that don't have written policies about harassment.
And that's the thing -- this is bad for cons. Cons get a considerable amount of traffic from cosplayers and their fans. If they start boycotting, they'll be followed by progressive writers and artists, which is bad for everyone. It seems much more reasonable to me to come up with clear, understandable limits, and then attempt to enforce them. No one believes enforcement will ever be perfect, but that doesn't mean we ought not try and be better.
I'm not sure stripping/cosplay really have much to do with each other, but I do find it interesting that this group is essentially asking for what strippers already have: An abundantly clear policy regarding what is and is not appropriate, and an enforcement mechanism for when that policy is breached.
That's what the cosplayers want. Why can't they get the same basic protection we allow strippers?
Well that's what we're saying.
I think it all boils down to a lack of accountability on the side of con security, the inability to properly train individual people on how to handle acts of wanton harassment on the ground level and the only real negative outcome of poor behavior on the attendance side being asked to leave, emphasis on the word ask since most security CAN'T pull your badge, even if they want to.
And here's an idea: Why not disallow photography at the event altogether, with the exception of photo areas for cosplayers and photographers. If you don't want shots taken, you stay out of the photography area. It makes enforcement much easier, because anyone taking shots outside of the accepted space is in violation.
Because everyone has a phone in their pocket and asking people to not take out their phone during a major media event is asinine, unsafe and completely unenforceable.
They already have multiple areas in which you are unallowed to take pictures. They don't confiscate your cameras, they simply eject people who violate the rules. It wouldn't stop people from snapping creepshots on their phones, but it would make enforcement considerably easier -- if you're caught taking a picture outside of the photo zone, you're gone.
The fact that we've seen the Batman/Superman teaser shows just how little these no phone zones actually mean to people.
That's pretty much what I was getting at with my response on the last page. There's a grey area with photographs on the street but in a private venue things are very different.Let 'em. There is no right to take photographs at a private venue, which is what comic conventions are.
SliceSabre
Banned
While the touching and stuff is messed up, the photo part? Well, get over it. Once you step outside your house anyone in the world is allowed to take picture of you because you are in public unless you're like in a build or something where the owners don't allow it.
And I highly doubt the Comic-Con people are gonna tell people "No general photgraphy!" that's just like how you're technically not supposed to take pictures of the Super Bowl game but people do anyway because the NFL simply cannot enforce the rule against so many people.
And I highly doubt the Comic-Con people are gonna tell people "No general photgraphy!" that's just like how you're technically not supposed to take pictures of the Super Bowl game but people do anyway because the NFL simply cannot enforce the rule against so many people.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Considering the harassment, the attendees are already revolting.
Not in the numbers that would if they started throwing people out for holding a smartphone.
There were also tons of "youtube crews" who were hyper annoying people doing absolute shit interviews with the girls, it was awful and acted like they owned the place. They would ask the girls to dance or act sexy
Tact is rarely entertaining.
Devolution
Member
While the touching and stuff is messed up, the photo part? Well, get over it. Once you step outside your house anyone in the world is allowed to take picture of you because you are in public unless lieky our in a build or something where the owners don't allow it.
And I highly doubt the Comic-Con people are gonna tell people "No general photgraphy!" that's just like how you're technically not supposed to take pictures are the Super Bowl but people do anyway because the NFL simply cannot enforce the rule agaisnt so many people.
Comic-Con isn't the public sphere.
People can still be unamused by creepshots.
Keep acting ignorant about what harassment entails.
I actually rather like this. I went to Emerald City Comicon last year with my young daughter who is a big comics fan. She went dressed up as Captain America and really liked people saying hi to her and telling her that her costume was great. I decided in advance that I wouldn't say yes to any pictures of her but I felt a bit like a jerk saying no to all the folks who asked. Like they were all being super polite, I don't think that a single person tried to take a picture without asking. So I felt bad making them (possibly, I have no clue what they were thinking) feel like they were being creepy or something. Having a specific area for this would have made it much easier for me to not have her picture take all the time, but to not have to make folks feel rude for asking.
It would also allow cosplayers to be able to enjoy the con without stopping every three seconds to have their picture taken. And cons already do this, in some cases, for the actors and actresses who are guests at the con. Try and take Stan Lee's picture without paying the cover fee, and you're likely to get told off by an enforcer. It's standard practice to have photo rooms for actors and actresses, where photographers can come in and get their shots, while allowing the guests to control what kinds of shots get taken. To be fair, some guests are more willing to do random shots than others.
Sporting event security is a lot different than convention stuff...While the touching and stuff is messed up, the photo part? Well, get over it. Once you step outside your house anyone in the world is allowed to take picture of you because you are in public unless lieky our in a build or something where the owners don't allow it.
And I highly doubt the Comic-Con people are gonna tell people "No general photgraphy!" that's just like how you're technically not supposed to take pictures of the Super Bowl game but people do anyway because the NFL simply cannot enforce the rule against so many people.
The Comic-Con people could do more and they could've been doing more for a while. Nearly everyone who's been to an event has similar complaints and it's been like that for decades.
Devolution
Member
It would also allow cosplayers to be able to enjoy the con without stopping every three seconds to have their picture taken. And cons already do this, in some cases, for the actors and actresses who are guests at the con. Try and take Stan Lee's picture without paying the cover fee, and you're likely to get told off by an enforcer. It's standard practice to have photo rooms for actors and actresses, where photographers can come in and get their shots, while allowing the guests to control what kinds of shots get taken. To be fair, some guests are more willing to do random shots than others.
Have official photographers with badges and or shirts. If people want pics they can access a gallery on the website post-con. Everyone else will either get a talking to or ejected based on severity and repetition.
Comic-Con isn't the public sphere.
People can still be unamused by creepshots.
Keep acting ignorant about what harassment entails.
Over the past couple years, Comic-con has spilled out into the public space. Sure we can make a "no-photos period" rule for within the con center, but what about the 6 blocks into the city that comic-con takes over? What about the bus zone people need to take to gain entry? What about the steps in the back by the river?
There's no good way to enforce a no photo rule. The first person who is kicked out for taking their phone out to send a text would be the thing that destroys that convention's public perception.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
While the touching and stuff is messed up, the photo part? Well, get over it. Once you step outside your house anyone in the world is allowed to take picture of you because you are in public unless you're like in a build or something where the owners don't allow it.
And I highly doubt the Comic-Con people are gonna tell people "No general photgraphy!" that's just like how you're technically not supposed to take pictures of the Super Bowl game but people do anyway because the NFL simply cannot enforce the rule against so many people.
Are you really serious?
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
I don't know what the ration of men to women is, but maybe there would be more women at these things if they felt like the environment was safe and welcoming for them.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Have official photographers with badges and or shirts. If people want pics they can access a gallery on the website post-con. Everyone else will either get a talking to or ejected based on severity and repetition.
Sounds great on paper.
Then you remember that there are over 100,000 people milling about.
I imagine the vast majority are just taking pictures of the show/crowds to share on social media and shit. What happens when you start banning those folks because of a no smartphone/camera policy?
We really need to protect the 9 women who go to comic con.
This is precisely the attitude that makes women feel unwelcome in areas where they are minorities, ensuring that they will always be minorities, and that they will always receive poor treatment.
I think a "photo area", while it won't solve the creeper problem entirely, can go a long way towards curbing the toxic behavior somewhat. You can get a large group of people to behave decently just by placing mental cues at the right places and let social pressure do the rest. There's always going to be outliers, people who just don't respect the rules, but those can be handled on a case by case basis.
Consider museums, for example. Many modern museums disallow photography in certain areas and most people will respect these rules. When they don't, a security guard will usually step in and kindly ask visitors to refrain from photography.
A similar setup could work for ComicCon, although you'd have to find staff members who aren't creepers like the fanbase, which is a problem in and of itself.
Consider museums, for example. Many modern museums disallow photography in certain areas and most people will respect these rules. When they don't, a security guard will usually step in and kindly ask visitors to refrain from photography.
A similar setup could work for ComicCon, although you'd have to find staff members who aren't creepers like the fanbase, which is a problem in and of itself.
Devolution
Member
Over the past couple years, Comic-con has spilled out into the public space. Sure we can make a "no-photos period" rule for within the con center, but what about the 6 blocks into the city that comic-con takes over? What about the bus zone people need to take to gain entry? What about the steps in the back by the river?
There's no good way to enforce a no photo rule. The first person who is kicked out for taking their phone out to send a text would be the thing that destroys that convention's public perception.
Jesus. You can tell when and where people are taking photos of someone in a manner that's creepy.
Sounds great on paper.
Then you remember that there are over 100,000 people milling about.
Eh. You want a big public event you should be shelling out better security in general. Plenty of other shit could down. They've gotten real lucky.
Shaming the cosplayers for what they wear instead of addressing the actions and attitudes of the assholes who harass everybody.
Nice priorities as usual.
Yup. I don't claim to know why most women of any ilk do what they do, but I imagine a fairly large number don't do it to get groped, harassed, catcalled, or have creepshots taken of them. How hard is it to ask before you take a picture? How hard is it not to stick a camera up someone's skirt, or close up on their ass cheeks or chest?
"Wow, that's a great costume, mind if I take a picture for my forum/blog/whatever?"
So easy.
SliceSabre
Banned
Harassment is terrible and I'm not okaying it, but on the same foot I'm a realist I cannot see the Comic-Con managers ever passing much less being able to enforce a no general photgraphy rule.Are you really serious?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Consider museums, for example. Many modern museums disallow photography in certain areas and most people will respect these rules. When they don't, a security guard will usually step in and kindly ask visitors to refrain from photography.
I don't get the comparison to museums and concerts and such. At those venues, it's a single party putting things on display and charging money for viewing. Makes sense to ban photography and recording.
Very, very different to a fan-focused convention.
Eh. You want a big public event you should be shelling out better security in general. Plenty of other shit could down. They've gotten real lucky.
You just said it wasn't a public event, by the way.
Either way, who is to say they aren't paying for security and preventing plenty of "other shit?" I don't know their security detail, but I doubt they take things lightly.
You would need a security guy for like every 20 people to enforce a no photography policy. Having 5,000+ security personnel would be a surefire way to kill the atmosphere of the convention.
Devolution
Member
Make people buy photography passes. Use the extra cash to hire more security. Do something. These complaints are decades old.
The only objection I can add is that its dumb to not want to be photographed at these events and by cosplaying you should expect it.
I mean, you spend hours creating a custom costume for this event specifically where others come to be with their expectation of seeing such costumes being one of the deciding factors to even go in the first place for many people.
I think if someone is following you around to snap pics, that is definitely harassment, especially if you are not cosplaying. But if you are in their vicinity, and as long as you are in event locations, it should be okay for someone to take pictures. kinda rude perhaps but not really harrassment . (though it is weird to take pics of people dressed normally)
But if you fear you're going to be found out to be a nerd or whatever and become embarrassed then isn't it smarter to not go to an event originally intended for those more on the nerdy/geeky side that used to be all about the comics?
though i could be wrong about this. happens sometimes.
I mean, you spend hours creating a custom costume for this event specifically where others come to be with their expectation of seeing such costumes being one of the deciding factors to even go in the first place for many people.
I think if someone is following you around to snap pics, that is definitely harassment, especially if you are not cosplaying. But if you are in their vicinity, and as long as you are in event locations, it should be okay for someone to take pictures. kinda rude perhaps but not really harrassment . (though it is weird to take pics of people dressed normally)
But if you fear you're going to be found out to be a nerd or whatever and become embarrassed then isn't it smarter to not go to an event originally intended for those more on the nerdy/geeky side that used to be all about the comics?
though i could be wrong about this. happens sometimes.
I don't get the comparison to museums and concerts and such. At those venues, it's a single party putting things on display and charging money for viewing. Makes sense to ban photography and recording.
Very, very different to a fan-focused convention.
That's not the point of my example at all.
The point is that large masses of people can be moved towards certain kinds of behavior with the right mental cues. If it works for museums, who have to deal with visitors from every kind of culture and background, surely it can work for comic conventions, where most of the attendees share a similar cultural framework.
Jesus. You can tell when and where people are taking photos of someone in a manner that's creepy.
Can you? Have you ever been told to put your phone away at a bar while texting because you're making people feel uncomfortable? Because I have.
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