Support NeoGAF

[Chobel]

It is also a given that the PS4 version will be better than the X1 one. Should we also remove consoles from the articles?

Just like it's a given that the PS4 performs better than the Xbox One?

PS4 will "win" everytime against the xbox, why not stop doing face offs altogether.

I'm against removing PC version from comparisons, but your argument that PS4 is always better than Xbox One is not true. Many games have total parity between PS4 and Xbox One, heck in some games Xbox One version has the edge (Strider, Theif).

EDIT: Also in some games Xbox One has the edge is some aspects (CoD: framerate, Murdered: AF)

 

[StuBurns]

PS4 will "win" everytime against the xbox, why not stop doing face offs altogether.

But you are wrong.

Strider is objectively better on XBO, and DF gave Thief the nod on XBO.

 

[Nethaniah]

I'm against removing PC version from comparisons, but your argument that PS4 is always better than Xbox One is not true. Many games have total parity between PS4 and Xbox One, heck in some games Xbox One version has the edge (Strider, Theif).

That parity will most likely end in the coming years when games get more demanding.

 

[StuBurns]

That parity will most likely end in the coming years.

And if that is the case, then will be the time to make the argument that the comparison has no consumer value, but as of now, it does.

 

[Biker19]

But you are wrong.

Strider is objectively better on XBO, and DF gave Thief the nod on XBO.

Honestly, it's only because the PS4 versions doesn't have Anisotropic Filtering (which is weird because there are plenty of other PS4 versions of games that has it).

 

[StuBurns]

Honestly, it's only because the PS4 versions doesn't have Anisotropic Filtering (which is weird because there are plenty of other PS4 versions of games that has it).

That's why the Xbox One versions won.

What difference does that possibly make to the value of doing the comparison?

 

[chrominance]

Because not that many people build a gaming PC literally only for gaming. Likely it'll be used for other things too. Mine was built for gaming (replacing a laptop), but still needs to handle ripping my blurays and editing my photos

True, but I still wouldn't call a Blu-Ray drive essential. I have one, and I barely use it--actually playing Blu-Rays on a Windows PC is an awful experience because of bizarre DRM requirements like not allowing second monitors if they're too old (I have to unplug my second monitor to get anything to play) and reverting to a non-Aero desktop rendering mode because reasons. Plus you have to use proprietary software; VLC and MPC don't work. (You CAN make all these requirements go away with certain pieces of software, but it's a pain to have to get this stuff and I don't actually know how legal it is, though ethically I see absolutely nothing wrong with it).

Ripping Blu-Rays, sure, I can see being a thing, but I don't know how common that sort of thing is nowadays when most people are satisfied with Netflix or download pirated movies. Burning Blu-Rays I don't think is particularly widespread just because of the cost of blank media. Once you've got those uses out of the way, what's left? No software comes on Blu-Rays, really.

Anyways, to bring this back on-topic: finally I have definitive numbers on how much of an upgrade a GTX 970 would be over my current Radeon 6950. Almost three times the performance is probably an okay reason to spend more than my usual $200-250 sweet spot. Also a good sign that the DF article doesn't note any particular glitches or instability on PC.

Finally, it's amazing that this is the first time I learned that MONOLITH is behind this game. Lithtech lives!

 

[Derpcrawler]

Also pc gaming is for people with autism. Consoles gaming is for cool socially normal people who don't give a shit about resolution or framerate. Arguing about resolution and framerate on a forum is the aspiest thing you can do.

Man, whenever DF thread drops, it's a gold mine for stupid quotes. I am not sure if this guy deserves a ban or a tag of shame.

 

[Codes4Food]

What PC shit? You don't want to include the PC version because it performs better than the PS4 and Xbox One does?

Of course it acceptable for ps4 fanboys to crap on the Xbox one (when the differences tend to be fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things) but the second a PC is compared to the ps4 it's uncalled for /s

Now on a more serious note....the point of these comparisons and threads is to objectively compare the various versions to help inform consumers to any differences or problems with a particular version. These are not meant to be used for console war fuel.

 

[Codes4Food]

Cause it's a given and only brings up useless arguments

So only ps4 > xb1 is useful?

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

A mid range pc from 2012 would not have a 7870, I just built a mid range computer 4 months ago with a 7870 and an i5 for around $800.

Pc fanboys are the worst. Not all computers are the same, but whenever they compare a console to a pc they always compare it fucking 780s and 290s. Some computers are better than others just like some computers are better than consoles and some consoles are better than some computers.

Also a console is cheaper. One argument PC fanboys use is that a pc is cheaper in the long term through steam sales, but again the fanboys compare steam sales to launch priced games on consoles. Lets say the average game you buy on PC is $10 (Steam sales) and the average on console is $15 (I can go to walmart and buy plenty of games for under $15, or go on kijiji). Keep in mind only older games are these prices newer games on consoles and PC are comparable in price (Yes consoles DO get new games discounted by 10-15$ like new pc games) You spend $400 on a console and $800 on a pc, and you buy 20 games. A pc will end up costing you around $1000 and a console around $700.

There is nothing wrong with buying a console, just like there is nothing wrong with buying a computer with an r7 240.


People also compare closed platforms (Consoles) to open architecture (PC) but act like PC is closed as well.


Also pc gaming is for people with autism. Consoles gaming is for cool socially normal people who don't give a shit about resolution or framerate. Arguing about resolution and framerate on a forum is the aspiest thing you can do.

Banned in 3,2,1

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Also pc gaming is for people with autism. Consoles gaming is for cool socially normal people who don't give a shit about resolution or framerate. Arguing about resolution and framerate on a forum is the aspiest thing you can do.

If I was to lash out at someone about something on Gaf, which I'm not going to, it would be you, sir.

 

[SapientWolf]

Can we please get on topic? Please don't turn this into a Console vs PC mess.

These threads are the technical equivalent of gladiatorial combat. The XB1 vs PS4 DF fights aren't much better. The main positive thing that can come out of these comparisons is introducing people to the terminology of graphical specifications and game performance. It's also good for comparing the relative performance of games on the same platform. Maybe they can go back to testing input lag too.

However, the PS4 remains the best bang-for-buck version out right now.

I think this could actually be debatable this go round because of how low the system requirements are for 60fps performance at PS4 settings or higher. But then I guess the question becomes how much value does 60fps have over 30fps. 100%? 10%? It's subjective. But for the consoles it's another easy win for the PS4.

 

[StuBurns]

So only ps4 > xb1 is useful?

And XBO > PS4 when that happens, yes.

What's the point of judging a race with an outcome that's predetermined?

 

[BouncyFrag]

And XBO > PS4 when that happens, yes.

What's the point of judging a race with an outcome that's predetermined?

People love to gloat.

 

[Codes4Food]

And XBO > PS4 when that happens, yes.

What's the point of judging a race with an outcome that's predetermined?

Perhaps there are people who own all 3 consoles and a PC (or any combination of those). As a customer they want to make the best decision possible. If there is no real difference from console and PC, why get it on PC? Maybe someone prefers mouse and keyboard. Maybe they prefer one controller or os over another.

There are times when one or more versions may have serious issues that a customer may want to avoid. I'm not talking 900p vs 1080p here. These could be huge drops, tearing, crazy popins, etc. These cases are the most important to inform people.

We can have objective conversations that point out the differences of each platform without acting like toddlers. Not everyone cares about the same things you do or I do. Let the gamer decide, no need to crap on their face.

 

[StuBurns]

Perhaps there are people who own all 3 consoles and a PC (or any combination of those). As a customer they want to make the best decision possible. If there is no real difference from console and PC, why get it on PC? Maybe someone prefers mouse and keyboard. Maybe they prefer one controller or os over another.

There are times when one or more versions may have serious issues that a customer may want to avoid. I'm not talking 900p vs 1080p here. These could be huge drops, tearing, crazy popins, etc. These cases are the most important to inform people.

We can have objective conversations that point out the differences of each platform without acting like toddlers. Not everyone cares about the same things you do or I do. Let the gamer decide, no need to crap on their face.

None of that has any relation whatsoever to the post you quoted.

If someone has a PC, the inclusion of a PC in the face-offs will not help, it doesn't have a range of specs, you don't know how your PC will perform. However, you do know those things if you're a PC gamer and are aware of how your machine normally compares to the consoles. Essentially, a PC gamer already knows if their PC will have a game run better than on consoles, so they don't benefit from its inclusion. Obviously people without a PC don't benefit from its inclusion either.

The two consoles might technically not be that close, but the results often are, and have gone in favor of the XBO more than once so far. There's no reason to think that will stop. So people who own both systems, but don't have a PC have a reason to check out the face off.

That group of PS4+XBO owners are the only people who can get meaningful consumer advice from these articles.

 

[Norml]

Here's an APNG of the foliage screenshot.

http://abload.de/img/hz1y36.png

 

[Ysiadmihi]

It's funny how bad PC ports are conveniently being forgotten in this thread, but are cited almost every time someone feels the need to tell everyone why they stick to consoles.

Bad ports are rare, but still reason enough alone for PC to be included. Especially when the only reason for excluding PC is to not hurt the feelings of people who are way too attached to their favorite gaming machine.

 

[StuBurns]

It's funny how bad PC ports are conveniently being forgotten in this thread, but are cited almost every time someone feels the need to tell everyone why they stick to consoles.

Bad ports are rare, but still reason enough alone for PC to be included. Especially when the only reason for excluding PC is to not hurt the feelings of people who are way too attached to their favorite gaming machine.

Even the worst ports ever are surely better than the console counter-parts if you throw enough performance at it. Even the infamous Saints Row 2 is best on PC.

 

[Codes4Food]

None of that has any relation whatsoever to the post you quoted.

If someone has a PC, the inclusion of a PC in the face-offs will not help, it doesn't have a range of specs, you don't know how your PC will perform. However, you do know those things if you're a PC gamer and are aware of how your machine normally compares to the consoles. Essentially, a PC gamer already knows if their PC will have a game run better than on consoles, so they don't benefit from its inclusion. Obviously people without a PC don't benefit from its inclusion either.

The two consoles might technically not be that close, but the results often are, and have gone in favor of the XBO more than once so far. There's no reason to think that will stop. So people who own both systems, but don't have a PC have a reason to check out the face off.

That group of PS4+XBO owners are the only people who can get meaningful consumer advice from these articles.

People always post benchmarks with various setups. These may be more helpful in the op than burried in a thread. It would also be nice if DF could have more in depth testing with various setups.

Again saying it's only valuable to console gamers is bs. If the PC version of a game is not objectively superior or is just a crappy console port is important to a lot of people.

The purpose of these threads is to inform the customer to the differences between all versions of the game, big or small. Most people use this as just one variable in their decision.

 

[StuBurns]

People always post benchmarks with various setups. These may be more helpful in the op than burried in a thread. It would also be nice if DF could have more in depth testing with various setups.

Again saying it's only valuable to console gamers is bs. If the PC version of a game is not objectively superior or is just a crappy console port is important to a lot of people.

The purpose of these threads is to inform the customer to the differences between all versions of the game, big or small. Most people use this as just one variable in their decision.

Again, if the outcome is already predetermined, it holds no value. Using some hypothetical horrible port on PC is absurd. Find a DF comparison where they favor a console over the PC, then you have a point, but you won't find one.

And yes, I'm not saying including PC couldn't be useful, I said it's not useful. If they did a range of specs, and talked about its scalability and optimization across the board, that would be great, and very worthwhile.

 

[pixlexic]

Even the worst ports ever are surely better than the console counter-parts if you throw enough performance at it. Even the infamous Saints Row 2 is best on PC.

well there is always stuff like ac4 clearing your saves bug.. and not everyone can throw money at a bad port.

 

[Codes4Food]

Again, if the outcome is already predetermined, it holds no value. Using some hypothetical horrible port on PC is absurd. Find a DF comparison where they favor a console over the PC, then you have a point, but you won't find one.

And yes, I'm not saying including PC couldn't be useful, I said it's not useful. If they did a range of specs, and talked about its scalability and optimization across the board, that would be great, and very worthwhile.

Deadrising3....

 

[Eusis]

Cause it's a given and only brings up useless arguments

As this case highlights it's interesting to know if some graphical feature actually DOESN'T show up on PC (though I expect it'll be patched or at an extreme fixed by fans.) It also can be worth knowing just how close the console versions are to PC, IE if they're way behind or if the PC version is basically the same thing but with fps/resolution unlocked.

 

[StuBurns]

Deadrising3....

While it has the potential to offer an experience superior to the Xbox One version, the caveats in reaching that goal are numerous. If you have the hardware muscle or don't mind limiting yourself to 30fps, you can still enjoy a good experience on a mid-range enthusiast gaming PC, but those expecting to power through this at a constant 60fps might want to check their expectations at the door.

It's still better, just not comfortably twice the performance better.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Even the worst ports ever are surely better than the console counter-parts if you throw enough performance at it.

That should be the case, yes, but it's about as much of a given as PS4>XBO is. Sometimes there are exceptions, and if you're not willing to give them any weight when it comes to PC, the handful (even that would be an exaggeration) of XBO ports that are better than the PS4 versions shouldn't count either.

People need to start getting comfortable with the fact that PC is not going away, and DF Face-Off threads of multiplat games aren't going to be a place to gloat about the power of the PS4.

 

[burgerdog]

Re-posting the SMAA instructions for PC as people seem still not aware of this:





PC all about dat crisp grass

What's the fps hit with smaa?

 

[Duxxy3]

Here's an APNG of the foliage screenshot.

http://abload.de/img/hz1y36.png

Look at all this beautiful foilage.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

DF should include the specs of their rig that they use to compare with the consoles though. Like in every article.

 

[Biker19]

But then how will we know when Microsoft pays developers to gimp PS4 versions for parity?

That's illegal, isn't it?

Also pc gaming is for people with autism. Consoles gaming is for cool socially normal people who don't give a shit about resolution or framerate. Arguing about resolution and framerate on a forum is the aspiest thing you can do.

You do realize that you're insulting 100+ million people that are PC gaming, right?

 

[Codes4Food]

It's still better, just not comfortably twice the performance better.

It's hardly better if you have the the latest and greatest system. Most people don't have this.

There are also games like Watchdogs, which was a stuttering disaster on PC, but preformed reasonably well on consoles. Why would I even bother with PC?

 

[StuBurns]

That should be the case, yes, but it's about as much of a given as PS4>XBO is. Sometimes there are exceptions, and if you're not willing to give them any weight when it comes to PC, the handful (even that would be an exaggeration) of XBO ports that are better than the PS4 versions shouldn't count either.

People need to start getting comfortable with the fact that PC is not going away, and DF Face-Off threads of multiplat games aren't going to be a place to gloat about the power of the PS4.

Prove it. Post an example of a PC losing a Face Off.

You can't just say it's as rare as XBO beating the PS4, because I can name twice that has happened. Name these instances of the PC losing, then you have a point.

 

[Lord Error]

But you are wrong.

Strider is objectively better on XBO, and DF gave Thief the nod on XBO.

Which, if I remember correctly, they kind of backed down from in an update where they pointed that PS4 version of the game also has parallax mapping, on top of higher res.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Prove it. Post an example of a PC losing a Face Off.

You can't just say it's as rare as XBO beating the PS4, because I can name twice that has happened. Name these instances of the PC losing, then you have a point.

Just because it hasn't been in a Face-Off yet doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

You tried to sweep SR2 under the rug, but having tried to play it myself, I know the PC version simply is not better than the console versions.

 

[StuBurns]

Just because it hasn't been in a Face-Off yet doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

You tried to sweep SR2 under the rug, but having tried to play it myself, I know the PC version simply is not better than the console versions.

You just said it's as rare as the XBO beating the PS4, which is twice in what, thirty Face Offs? There are hundreds of Face Offs including PC, so there should be plenty of examples of the PC losing, if what you said is true. Of course, you were talking shit, so you can't actually provide any proof of your claim, which kind of renders your stance completely pointless.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

How come this discussion of getting PC off the comparisons came up with this game now and not with prior titles like say Battlefield 4?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

You just said it's as rare as the XBO beating the PS4, which is twice in what, thirty Face Offs? There are hundreds of Face Offs including PC, so there should be plenty of examples of the PC losing, if what you said is true. Of course, you were talking shit, so you can't actually provide any proof of your claim, which kind of renders your stance completely pointless.

You expect me to comb through hundreds of Face-Off articles to prove my point, despite you knowing ports like SR2 and Mercenaries 2 exist, or even more modern games like Watch Dogs that suffer from stuttering issues that cause a lot of players to prefer the console versions?

No need to get so demanding over something you know to be true, or be so hostile over PC spoiling your fun.

 

[StuBurns]

You expect me to comb through hundreds of Face-Off articles to prove my point, despite you knowing ports like SR2 and Mercenaries 2 exist, or even more modern games like Watch Dogs that suffer from stuttering issues that cause a lot of players to prefer the console versions?

No need to get so demanding over something you know to be true, or be so hostile over PC spoiling your fun.

I know things like SR2 exist, but I disagree that they're worse.

You're the one the who claimed it was as common, the burden of proof is on you. And I didn't ask for ten examples or something, just one, and you couldn't give it.

If your argument for PC's inclusion is that the PC sometimes loses, it would be nice if you could establish that claim in any way, but you can't.

And the PC isn't spoiling my fun, I just fail to see how it's helpful to anyone as it is. Nor do I want it removed, I want to see it provide a richer insight into the PC version, multiple specs of PC tested, see the performance over a scope of PC builds, something that is actually valuable. As it stands, it's only there as an ideal for the consoles to achieve, which they never can.

 

[Massa]

And the PC isn't spoiling my fun, I just fail to see how it's helpful to anyone as it is. Nor do I want it removed, I want to see it provide a richer insight into the PC version, multiple specs of PC tested, see the performance over a scope of PC builds, something that is actually valuable. As it stands, it's only there as an ideal for the consoles to achieve, which they never can.

I think your point of view misses the point of these articles. They're making technical analysis of games because they're interested in the technical aspect of games, not to find a winner. The infantile "my system is better than yours angle" doesn't go into it, though it certainly helps with their page views.

GAF doesn't have enough people interested in that, and if it did it gets drowned out in fanboy wars anyway. This thread is already at 13 pages of mostly dick waving.

 

[StuBurns]

I think your point of view misses the point of these articles. They're making technical analysis of games because they're interested in the technical aspect of games, not to find a winner. The infantile "my system is better than yours angle" doesn't go into it, though it certainly helps with their page views.

GAF doesn't have enough people interested in that, and if it did it gets drowned out in fanboy wars anyway. This thread is already at 13 pages of mostly dick waving.

It is absolutely to find a 'winner', that's why they including things like this:

"It's undeniably a PC victory in theory though", from this very Face Off.

It's consumer advice. Although it does serve as something of a look at the technical breakdown of a game, however, when they really do those, they're called 'DF vs (game title)', Face Offs are to find the winner.

 

[bargeparty]

When did the xbone beat the ps4?

 

[Eusis]

When did the xbone beat the ps4?

Whenever AF showed up on XB1 but was a non-show on PS4, and the games were otherwise identical. Strider's one of those cases where the XB1 version's better, though while AF can matter a lot in a sidescroller where you'd constantly have a steep angle for the floor it's hardly a deal breaker for those without XB1s. May be an issue for PC though.

 

[Qassim]

The point of the digital foundry articles isn't to help people see if it'll run on their own system though. It's to analyse what that version of the game offers and how it compares to the console versions, with stuff like extra features, higher quality settings, if quality settings match or are inferior to certain elements on the consoles, etc.

Benchmarking games on different spec machines doesn't fit in with the point of the digital foundry face-off articles.

 

[RayMaker]

The devs have done a good job.All versions look great and there are no technical shortcomings that effect enjoyment for any version.

 

[Soi-Fong]

I haven't really noticed the aliasing issues, but then I'm downsampling the game from a pretty high resolution. 2880x1620 I think.. Because the fucking game can't go to 125%.

 

[Qassim]

I haven't really noticed the aliasing issues, but then I'm downsampling the game from a pretty high resolution. 2880x1620 I think.. Because the fucking game can't go to 125%.

Of course you wouldn't notice the aliasing issues then..

 

[Biker19]

You expect me to comb through hundreds of Face-Off articles to prove my point, despite you knowing ports like SR2 and Mercenaries 2 exist, or even more modern games like Watch Dogs that suffer from stuttering issues that cause a lot of players to prefer the console versions?

No need to get so demanding over something you know to be true, or be so hostile over PC spoiling your fun.

All you would have to do to find out who won, is look at the tags for the 8th generation of games here, or for the 7th generation of games here.

 

[Curufinwe]

Even the worst ports ever are surely better than the console counter-parts if you throw enough performance at it. Even the infamous Saints Row 2 is best on PC.

RE4 and DMC3 weren't.

 

[senahorse]

All you would have to do to find out who won, is look at the tags for the 8th generation of games here, or for the 7th generation of games here.

Um, what's the point of that first link?

edit: oh you fixed it...