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[EmCeeGramr]

Nick Denton is the owner of Gawker. Everything about that seems fake as hell, and was probably "leaked" (ie, invented) by someone from Weird Twitter, since those guys have been laughing for weeks about the GG conspiracy theory that they're all the paid footsoldiers of Denton assigned to trolling GG to defend Gawker.

As I just saw someone point out, these previous attempts to mock GG and that conspiracy included actually making up fake pictures of receiving money from Gawker for "anti-GG tweets" and nonsense pictures of Denton asking for volunteers for a "special project," which is referenced in the "leaked Facebook post."




Alllllso, the post itself reads like a supervillain monologue, including a Dark Knight reference, which is the exact sort of thing that Weird Twitter people like to make fun of people online for using in writing.

 

[Novan Leon]

So what? I am saying that after seeing how men on the internet treat women (because GamerGate made me notice), I don't blame her wanting to stay away from us.

4chan doesn't represent men. Reddit doesn't represent men. The worst elements of the internet don't represent mainstream society. Improperly weighing the representative value of internet commenters is a significant issue.

This is slightly off-topic but I wanted to address your last comment.

 

[gogosox82]

Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.

Because their aren't two sides. Its a bad argument used by people who want to appear either neutral or not address the doxxing and threatening going on. Even if it happened to gg'ers, their aren't two sides. One is an attacker, the other is a victim.

 

[Cybit]

The Denton post is fake and was used to make Mike Cernovich look like an ass:

https://archive.today/wD2PA
https://twitter.com/BronzeHammer/status/527628516528246786

That's sort of a shitty thing to do.

As for pro-GG folks getting doxxed; didn't Boogie get doxxed while he was still on GAF? We can't claim we're on the side of the angels here, folks.

 

[vcc]

Mike Cernovich noticed someone filing a false police report against him and prevented it by contacting the police.

That's not what swatting is. A police report? Swatting is getting swat to someones house on the pretense that a dangerous situation is occurring. With the hope swat breaks stuff and hurts people.

 

[MotherFan]

There's usually something legitimate at the core of any radical group's beliefs. The problem is that it it gets so smothered and surrounded by bullshit that it doesn't really matter.

If one has a legitimate complaint about something, then nobody is going to listen when your response is about 1000x stronger than what's appropriate. And for good reason.

The problem is what they state is their core belief is not the core belief. It's not that it is stronger than what it should be, which it is, it is that they are harassing anyone and anything that does not agree with their witch hunt.

If i state that I like JRPGs as my core belief, then go out and harass fans of any other genre, send death threats, and make my goal in life to demolish those other genres, my core belief is not "I like JRPGs" any more. It is to destroy anything that does not fit my liking. This is what GG has done and why it has no legitimate issue. What they say and what they do are not the same.

As for corruption in games journalism, yes I agree that it is there. I don't see it in Zoe Quinn, and even in the scenario she did sleep with the review to get a favorable rating (which this was disproven quite quickly) that would be a scandal, but not a sign of systemic corruption.

What I feel is more of a problem is the pressure publishers put on review outlets for AAA reviews and issues that are more related to that.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I think it kinda swings both ways.

How so?

 

[crowphoenix]

I think it kinda swings both ways.

Please elaborate. I don't see the other side.

 

[MYeager]

You mean this post that the founder and proprietor of Gawker Media appears to have left on his Facebook after recruiting people to infiltrate and sabotage the #gamergate movement?

That's from The Ralph Report, which is so ridiculously biased even people in the GG movement mock him on KiA and 8chan. Considering that they've attributed tweets to fake Twitter accounts (Anita's alleged 'aspie' comment) in order to smear people before I'd want something a little more credible than 'Ralph verified' before buying it.

If it's true then what a stupid thing to do/write since the hate parade is already full of borderline personalities that would/do fight amongst themselves already. Regardless it'll be amusing watching the volume turn up on the "You disagree with me so you're a Gawker shill!" arguments.

 

[vcc]

I think that if it is real, it would definitely be a large piece of evidence for the corruption in games journalism argument, which is the reason why many people support #gamergate.

This is gawker, their corruption and relative low quality work is pretty legendary. It implies nothing other than gawker being gawker if true or #gg being #GG if nto true.

 

[Corpekata]

That's sort of a shitty thing to do.

As for pro-GG folks getting doxxed; didn't Boogie get doxxed while he was still on GAF? We can't claim we're on the side of the angels here, folks.

Why is it shitty? All it did was expose how quick to jump on crazy conspiracy theories some of these people are.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Nick Denton is the owner of Gawker. Everything about that seems fake as hell, and was probably "leaked" (ie, invented) by someone from Weird Twitter, since those guys have been laughing for weeks about the GG conspiracy theory that they're all the paid footsoldiers of Denton assigned to trolling GG to defend Gawker.

As I just saw someone point out, these previous attempts to mock GG and that conspiracy included actually making up fake pictures of receiving money from Gawker for "anti-GG tweets" and nonsense pictures of Denton asking for volunteers for a "special project," which is referenced in the "leaked Facebook post."




Alllllso, the post itself reads like a supervillain monologue, including a Dark Knight reference, which is the exact sort of thing that Weird Twitter people like to make fun of people online for using in writing.

I would agree that it is good to be suspicious.

 

[Raggie]

I'm not drawing a false equivalence argument. I'm saying there are people on both side who've jumped on the bandwagon and turned this into a debate about them more than it's about the original parties involved.

The original claims made by Gamergate were debunked months ago, and since then it's been a movement about defending itself from anyone calling them out. You can't debate about Gamergate 'issues' because there isn't any.

 

[vcc]

I would agree that it is good to be suspicious.

But you spread it anyways?

 

[crowphoenix]

But you spread it anyways?

Even lies are a side, I guess.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

I think it kinda swings both ways.

Except it really kinda doesn't. If there's anything GG has proved it's that there is a very real systematic hatred towards women, while men are safer.

This is pretty much irrefutable by now. If anything, GG has made me more feminist than I was before, as it's shown time and time again what misogyny looks like. And time and time again showed what a shitty place gaming is for women.

Source: THIS THREAD.

 

[lifa-cobex]

How so?

well...

4chan doesn't represent men. Reddit doesn't represent men. The worst elements of the internet don't represent mainstream society. Improperly weighing the representative value of internet commenters is a significant issue.

yea.

Unless you completely sure about who is posting. Then the argument kinda faults itself.
Just because one sex says something negative about the other sex, Doesn't mean they should be held accountable for the whole gender.
Trolling is another massive factor to this.

 

[Trame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Denton

^ easy enough answer.


Honestly though, I can find absolutely no confirmation of why Denton's supposed villain rant is real.
Looking on the twitter feed I just see a bunch of clowns celebrating they have "proof" of Gawker villainy:

https://twitter.com/search?q=denton&src=typd

It looks completely fake and makes no sense (really, he'd have to PAY people to do this thing people do for free and for no reason?)

Also stuff like saying the media exposure has had no effect (it has), capitalization of 'mainstream,' and referring to the movement as a giant (yeah right). The whole thing is perfectly tailored to read to gamergaters "we're an unstoppable giant whose only vulnerability is ANYONE WHO DISSENTS THEY'RE ALL PAID SHILLS."

Of course, whether real or not, the most offensive part is that he signed his post

 

[Beelzebufo]

Even lies are a side, I guess.

Who is more at fault, the liar/person who continually posts what they suspect or know to be a lie, or the people who allow themselves to be fooled by the lie? There are two sides.

 

[partyphone]

pro-gamergate people have been harassed and that's shitty. but it doesn't legitimize anything that gamergate is doing. I don't know why this is a hard concept for some people.

 

[dead souls]

My dislike of TB continues to be justified in how ignorant he is.

You know, I've noticed a lot of people posting comments like this on various forums I frequent. This collusion is getting out of hand. Why can't TB be objectively reviewed?

Spoiler

lol

 

[Oersted]

That's sort of a shitty thing to do.

As for pro-GG folks getting doxxed; didn't Boogie get doxxed while he was still on GAF? We can't claim we're on the side of the angels here, folks.

None on the lets say ethical "side" encourages unlawful, harmful behaviour. The Gamergate side? Well, it started with harassment. Was driven by antifeminism. That has been key motivators.

But feel free to paint harassers and antifeminists as equals to those who got harassed, nudes leaked, received death threats for being women and/or feminists. Please do, its amusing.

 

[bonercop]

Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.

You're comparing organized, targeted harassment with isolated cases of harassment.

There's a world of difference between the two.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Every perpetrator has a victim. Even if that's all that they are, there are still two sides.

Every rose has it's SJWs
Every night has it's dawn
Just like every cowboy sings a sad sad song
Every rose has its SJWs

Deep man.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

That's from The Ralph Report, which is so ridiculously biased even people in the GG movement mock him on KiA and 8chan. Considering that they've attributed tweets to fake Twitter accounts (Anita's alleged 'aspie' comment) in order to smear people before I'd want something a little more credible than 'Ralph verified' before buying it.

If it's true then what a stupid thing to do/write since the hate parade is already full of borderline personalities that would/do fight amongst themselves already. Regardless it'll be amusing watching the volume turn up on the "You disagree with me so you're a Gawker shill!" arguments.

I would certainly agree that The Ralph Retort would be a biased source. My post was a reply to someone else commenting on what I believed to be the Facebook post. I provided the image to make sure it was what the poster was talking about and to allow others to see what was being talked about. If the post is legitimate, it would be pretty damning, but it's often difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the legitimacy of online posts, since they are relatively easy to duplicate.

 

[MotherFan]

Except it really kinda doesn't. If there's anything GG has proved it's that there is a very real systematic hatred towards women, while men are safer.

This is pretty much irrefutable by now. If anything, GG has made me more feminist than I was before, as it's shown time and time again what misogyny looks like. And time and time again showed what a shitty place gaming is for women.

Source: THIS THREAD.

I don't think that this shows a systemic hate for women. I think what it does show is that there is alot of mysogyny in the video game community and that it has a very vocal minority of redpill and MRA type personalities that are skilled at using the internet.

 

[aspiegamer]

Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.

This is not a factually accurate statement. The term "prominent" is also an oxymoron because it's not supposed to have "leaders", right?

I would agree that it is good to be suspicious.

Yet believe it until proven otherwise?

Mike Cernovich noticed someone filing a false police report against him and prevented it by contacting the police.

That's not what "swatting" is. It's seriously not a difficult concept to understand. You're free to believe what that sociopath of a men's rights activist says, but at your own peril.

If you're going to come here to lie all day at least try to be creative.

Source: THIS THREAD.

Perfect.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I would certainly agree that The Ralph Retort would be a biased source. My post was a reply to someone else commenting on what I believed to be the Facebook post. I provided the image to make sure it was what the poster was talking about and to allow others to see what was being talked about. If the post is legitimate, it would be pretty damning, but it's often difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the legitimacy of online posts, since they are relatively easy to duplicate.

Protip: if it sounds like a villain speech, treat it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler

Except when it's a channer.

 

[sqwarlock]

The ego on this guy.

 

[MYeager]

The Denton post is fake and was used to make Mike Cernovich look like an ass:

https://archive.today/wD2PA
https://twitter.com/BronzeHammer/status/527628516528246786

That guy makes himself seem like an ass every time he posts something, not sure what that accomplishes. He wrote later that Bronze Hammer is probably a double agent sent to discredit him and Kingofpol. One doesn't believe date rape exists and the other is a holocaust denier. There's no credit to be lost.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

But you spread it anyways?

I was responding to a previous post with what the post seemed to be referencing. I deliberately used the word "appears" when talking about the post in case it was not legitimate.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The ego on this guy.

"How dare you say I'm unethical? I AM the ethics in videogame journalism! You can't judge he who does the judging!"

Also, can we please stop talking about TB now? Or at least stop taking him like his opinion matters for a while?

 

[crowphoenix]

4chan doesn't represent men. Reddit doesn't represent men. The worst elements of the internet don't represent mainstream society. Improperly weighing the representative value of internet commenters is a significant issue.

This is slightly off-topic but I wanted to address your last comment.

And yet you have systematic, targeted, and vehement attacks and harassment from men against women on the internet. And why is it allowed to continue? Because other men don't do anything about it. They ignore it. They leave it for the affected party to fight.

Hell, Felicia Day was doxxed for saying GamerGate made her nervous, but Chris Kluwe was left also after attacking GamerGaters in every way a person could think.

I can totally see why someone previously hurt by men would not want us around.

 

[MYeager]

I would certainly agree that The Ralph Retort would be a biased source. My post was a reply to someone else commenting on what I believed to be the Facebook post. I provided the image to make sure it was what the poster was talking about and to allow others to see what was being talked about. If the post is legitimate, it would be pretty damning, but it's often difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the legitimacy of online posts, since they are relatively easy to duplicate.

If it's from Ralph Report there's a 99% chance it's not legit or taken so far out of context that it doesn't represent the original statement in any way.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

If it's from Ralph Retort there's a 99% chance it's not legit or taken so far out of context that it doesn't represent the original statement in any way.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Nanashrew]

So I haven't listened to the Pakman stuff or completely know the full story going on but... Did Pakman throw Arthur Chu under the bus?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

So I haven't listened to the Pakman stuff or completely know the full story going on but... Did Pakman throw Arthur Chu under the bus?

https://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow/status/529679463962116096

https://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow/status/529713503876419585


These two tweets should tell you enough.

 

[zeldablue]

The problem is that there's too much ill-will going on. It then becomes a "who started it" situation and the problem keeps going.

No one should wish ill-will on anyone. EVER. Especially not Zoe, Bri and Anita while they are already being targeted for petty, stupid reasons.

While I despise what GG people are doing, I don't despise them. No one deserves any ill will and I wish everyone would let that sink in.

 

[Vlade]

Except it really kinda doesn't. If there's anything GG has proved it's that there is a very real systematic hatred towards women, while men are safer.

This is pretty much irrefutable by now. If anything, GG has made me more feminist than I was before, as it's shown time and time again what misogyny looks like. And time and time again showed what a shitty place gaming is for women.

Source: THIS THREAD.

Gaming is what made feminism personal for me too.

I feel like i went through this cultural epiphany with the onset of in-game voice chat. I did not realize what an unwelcoming place it was for women, simply because they are women. At some point I felt an ownership of the culture, and tried my best to make that aspect unacceptable in my house and in my bubble.
GG is that disappointed feeling all over again, that my subculture has ugly parts willing to house a hate group. I again don't want it, in fact, I want it out, and speak to that end. I have more fun when we are all having fun.

Anecdote: Last night I went on a raid in Destiny with some random people and we didn't know each other. One was a girl, with her gender hinted at in her name. no one gave her extra shit. What was amazing about it is how relieved I was. I wish that was the norm.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

I don't think that this shows a systemic hate for women. I think what it does show is that there is alot of mysogyny in the video game community and that it has a very vocal minority of redpill and MRA type personalities that are skilled at using the internet.

I kind of agree and probably could have worded it better, but I want to make a distinction.

Here's the thing. It's when women* speak out against systematic problems (like employment, representation, sexism etc.) that they get harassed. Or gaming publications that do the same. When highlighting systematic issues, the "MRA type personalities" go into defense mode and attack, defending the systematic inequality. Because if gaming was "fine" and there were a few bad apples, there would be nothing for that group to defend.

I guess using "hatred for women" kinda was a bad way to word it. What I mean was: there's systematic inequality or systematic sexism, defended by organized misogyny/hatred for women.

And by systematic I mean, inherent in the system or the way this industry/community is organized. Through demographics of both consumers and producers, culture, demand etc.

Systematic should not be interpreted as me saying "all/most male gamers are misogynists".

*I know men also speak out against these things, but they don't get punished in the same way.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The problem is that there's too much ill-will going on. It then becomes a "who started it" situation and the problem keeps going.

No one should wish ill-will on anyone. EVER. Especially not Zoe, Bri and Anita while they are already being targeted for petty, stupid reasons.

While I despise what GG people are doing, I don't despise them. No one deserves any ill will and I wish everyone would let that sink in.

Nobody could ever do anything that would make you despise them, ever?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

The problem is that there's too much ill-will going on. It then becomes a "who started it" situation and the problem keeps going.
No one should wish ill-will on anyone. EVER. Especially not Zoe, Bri and Anita while they are already being targeted for petty, stupid reasons.
While I despise what GG people are doing, I don't despise them. No one deserves any ill will and I wish everyone would let that sink in.

I don't know..

Milo, TheRalph, Cernovich, RogueStar ...

There's a few guys in #GG that push my border of tolerance.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The ego on this guy.

I thought this had to be fake, so I went to his actual twitter, and.... nope, it's real. LMAO, fucking wow.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

So I haven't listened to the Pakman stuff or completely know the full story going on but... Did Pakman throw Arthur Chu under the bus?

If what Pakman said about supporting doxxing and #tweetlikenotyourshield is true, then I don't know if a negative reaction would be considered throwing Chu "under the bus." I look forward to hearing the interview myself.

 

[Nanashrew]

https://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow/status/529679463962116096

https://twitter.com/davidpakmanshow/status/529713503876419585


These two tweets should tell you enough.

Geez... Pakman is an asshole.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I was responding to a previous post with what the post seemed to be referencing. I deliberately used the word "appears" when talking about the post in case it was not legitimate.

Maybe it's just semantics, but you said "appears to have left on his Facebook" when it actually appears to be a fake post by Denton.

We all know how the internet works, not sure how anyone would immediately believe a screenshot like that. The syntax and tone are at an 8th grade level. In light of how much Archive.org has been used recently, it should sound massive alarm bells when a smoking gun like this shows up as a .jpeg.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't know..

Milo, TheRalph, Cernovich, RogueStar ...

There's a few guys in #GG that push my border of tolerance.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean I guess they're all pitiable in their own pathetic way too, but you don't have to want to cause physical harm to someone to despise them.

 

[Corpekata]

It's throwing him under the bus because he's clearly headline baiting with the "stands by doxxing" thing. If you look at Chu's feed it's clearly about Violentacrez, the reddit Jailbait guy, not like general doxxing. But that's the way people have been taking it, and Pakman has to have know that's the way people would see it.

Even if you want to say that what happened to acrez was wrong, it's clear that the headline itself is meant to inflame people in general.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Maybe it's just semantics, but you said "appears to have left on his Facebook" when it actually appears to be a fake post by Denton.

We all know how the internet works, not sure how anyone would immediately believe a screenshot like that. The syntax and tone are at an 8th grade level. In light of how much Archive.org has been used recently, it should sound massive alarm bells when a smoking gun like this shows up as a .jpeg.

Fair enough, I'm sure it could have been worded better.

 

[partyphone]

If what Pakman said about supporting doxxing and #tweetlikenotyourshield is true, then I don't know if a negative reaction would be considered throwing Chu "under the bus." I look forward to hearing the interview myself.

the NWS tag is beyond stupid so making fun of it is great.

Arthur's stance on doxxing is way too nuanced for gamergate to understand.

he thinks, and I can't help but agree, that doxxing is a stupid term because it can mean a lot of things. but he supports releasing the real names of people who are doing illegal shit. like violentacrez. he's against making their home address public and the like.