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Rumor: Grand Theft Auto V will use additional DRM on PC (Steam + Denuvo)

Because it works so well and is practically invisible? I agree with you mate!

Like so many DRMs then? I never had a problem with Securum, TAGES, and others.
Hell, all of them work mostly in the same way. The way Steam works. Encrypting an .exe, one-time connection with internet, etc.

People love to blame DRM to any problems, like in the first page people were tying Lords of the Fallen problems to the DRM... nevermind it's also a very buggy game in consoles!
 

Kiyo

Member
How do you know that? Are there any stats that show DRM sells more copies? Because I think those stats would show the opposite

I'm pretty sure the companies that spend millions on researching this type of thing know better than the both of us.
 

Ensirius

Member
Good job rockstar, because making your customers pay for the ones who steal your product makes total fucking sense. Disgusting.
 

Gangxxter

Member
"You can't stop pirates" is a myth.

If this DRM is not causing any issues and went unnoticed with Fifa 15 and LoTF then where's the problem?
A glimpse of hope.
But your first statement is not a myth. It only takes longer to crack the system. But since GTA is so hugely popular more crackers will try to defeat the system and we'll
sadly
see a crack sooner than later.
 

Almighty

Member
how big of a problem is piracy on PC?

It is not unusual for a game to have been pirated many more times then it has sold copies. The real question is if we eliminated piracy how many of them would buy the game. Depending on who you ask the answer is somewhere between 0% and 100%.
 
A glimpse of hope.
But your first statement is not a myth. It only takes longer to crack the system. But since GTA is so hugely popular more crackers will try to defeat the system and we'll
sadly
see a crack sooner than later.

Yeah, GTA5 will attract big attention unlike FIFA15, which importance on the pc scale for hardcore gamers is pretty low.
I bet it will be cracked in three weeks or less.

Steam CEG also sounds pretty advanced and they crack it now in less than 24 hours

1. Custom Executable Generation

Custom Executable Generation creates a unique build of your game for each user, making it difficult for any one user to share the game with any other user. Each individual copy of a CEG-protected game is only playable by the Steam account authorized to access it. CEG is transparent, and does not impose limits on users. It lets users access their content from any hardware, and allows unlimited hardware configuration changes without the content becoming unplayable. In fact, no changes are made to a user's computer for CEG to work. Instead, CEG works in tandem with Steam authentication, enabling content access based on user accounts, not arbitrary hardware-based "rights-management" restrictions.
2. Retail Encryption

Protect your day-one release by shipping encrypted media to stores world-wide. No need to worry that your game will leak from a replicator or stock room - your game stays encrypted until the moment you decide to release it.

Encryption technology also allows you to preload your game to users on Steam. Download encrypted data weeks in advance so that players have access to your game the moment it's released, increasing player numbers and satisfaction during the critical first days.
3. Valuable Platform-Dependent Features

Customers won't want to pirate a game that's connected to 20 million gamers and a feature-rich platform. Features like Steam Achievements, Anti-Cheat, Auto-Updating, and Steam Cloud simply dont exist outside of Steam.

Furthermore, constantly updating your game with upgrades and content leaves the pirates in the dust they are relegated to a featureless game with no community of players.
 
Yeah, GTA5 will attract big attention unlike FIFA15, which importance on the pc scale for hardcore gamers is pretty low.
I bet it will be cracked in three weeks or less.

Steam CEG also sounds pretty advanced and they crack it now in less than 24 hours

Depends on Fifa and LotF. If they crack it now they will have less problems with GTA5. They know that GTA5 has this DRM now so the race to crack this DRM begins. So they probably start with Fifa or LotR to get into this DRM. Many pirate groups want the fame and bring out a pirated GTA5 day 1.
 

Gangxxter

Member
It is not unusual for a game to have been pirated many more times then it has sold copies. The real question is if we eliminated piracy how many of them would by the game. Depending on who you ask the answer is somewhere between 0% and 100%.
It would be interesting to see some sales numbers for FIFA 15 PC, especially compared to FIFA 14 PC. FIFA 15 PC is still uncracked.
 

Nibel

Member
Until GTAV PC is released, I expect both FIFA15 and LOTF to be cracked and available for pirates. Until GTAV PC is released, they will have better experience in how to handle this kind of DRM.

GTAV is not comparable to FIFA15 or LOTF - there will be dozens of cracker wanting to crack the shit out of it.

Reality is: GTAV PC will be hacked, no matter what. Every game will be hacked and that's just reality. What publishers should do instead is making it convenient as possible to buy and play the game without much in between. Use other methods to exclude pirates from the game.

I would have no problem with a perfect functional DRM, but I haven't seen one that doesn't fuck up your performance.
 

Lemonte

Member
I think its funny that if you go to piratebay and check top 100 pc games GTA San Andreas is still at the top.
 
I'm pretty sure the companies that spend millions on researching this type of thing know better than the both of us.

I doubt that. In that case everyone would be doing it.

Why do certain companies go for DRM? Maybe because they are disappointed with sales numbers. And why are the sales numbers disappointing? Probably because they delay their PC games and add obtrusive DRM.
Then they blame piracy as the only reason for the disappointing sales, so they just keep doing their delay and DRM thing.

If they did the opposite, and it would still generate less sales, I would eat my words. But I'm pretty confident it would sell more instead.
 

Gaogaogao

Member
I'm pretty sure the companies that spend millions on researching this type of thing know better than the both of us.

a fool and his money...

piracy exists worldwide on a scale that makes you wonder if it actually makes a difference in sales, if they keep releasing pc games.
 

TeaFan

Member
Things like this will most likely fuel piracy rather than prevent it. As others have said a massive game like GTA V, the race will be on in the piracy community to crack it first. Its like a red rag to a bull
 

Sentenza

Member
how big of a problem is piracy on PC?
It's a MASSIVE case of false problem.
Focus your efforts in increasing the user base's willing to purchase rather than chasing on pirates and chances are you will get more sales for your game.

Beside, I don't want to derail a thread in an argument about how piracy works, but there are few known facts about piracy.
- Any attempt to actually study the phenomenon in the last years seems to suggest that for the most part "pirates" are actually people that consume large quantities of the media they pirate even in legitimate forms, any time they can realistically afford it.
- Apart from that, a massive chunk of the download traffic seems to also come from countries where most of the times these media aren't even properly available/realistically affordable (China is often mentioned).
- Preventing people from copying software/music/movies won't make them magically more rich. If someone is used to buy ten games for year and pirate the rest, making impossible for that person to pirate won't give him/her more money to buy more media.
- There are not known instances of super-popular top-pirated games that don't end up being also very popular sellers in general.
 

Nzyme32

Member

Sentenza

Member
Steamworks DRM is DRM, it gives nothing back and only exists to restrict you. Steam is not Steamworks.
Uhm, no? I mean, you are not right, not even embracing your dislike for Steam.
Steam is just a client/digital store.

Steamworks is all the pile of features that come wth that:
a bland and non-intrusive DRM, cloud saving, achievements, cards, friendlist/matchmaking/server browser in-game integration, etc.
 
Uhm, no? I mean, you are not right, not even embracing your dislike for Steam.
Steam is just a client/digital store.

Steamworks is all the pile of features that come wth that:
a bland and non-intrusive DRM, cloud saving, achievements, cards, friendlist/matchmaking/server browser in-game integration, etc.

There are DRM free games on Steam. Such as Scribblenauts unlimeted. That has no DRM but has achievements etc.
 

Shengar

Member
- Apart from that, a massive chunk of the download traffic seems to also come from countries where most of the times these media aren't even properly available/realistically affordable (China is often mentioned).

They should cite other part Asia that is not Japan more often.
With the recent Steam regional pricing though, the access for legitimate games become easier, making the economic justification found in many developing countries for piracy become harder to stand its ground. The only one will be piracing games are hardcore pirates that just refused to buy anything, which mean they are lost cause to begin with.

That's why I always thought that general problem for piracy that the industry could take care of is wider and easier legitimate access to various countries, not just the trinity Euro-US-Japan. Hardcore pirates aren't the industry problem, it's individual one.
 

twisted89

Member
Keep in mind that publishers daring people to crack their DRM almost always results in hackers breaking it in the first week. This isn't like LotF or FIFA (which are comparative lower-scale releases). Ubisoft tried the same thing with SecuROM on Assassin's Creed II (as well as introduced a performance-degrading bug in the PC version) that was quickly hacked and released a couple days after its release.

The same thing happened with Activision when they crowed about how Modern Warfare 2's DRM when uncrackable. Hackers took it as a challenge and broke the game wide open within 48 hours, adding in all kinds of additional features that made it better than the console releases.

You can bet dollars to donuts that there are some enterprising hacker groups out there right now who are looking at this and getting riled up enough to consider it a momentary challenge. Especially for a new DRM system.

FYI, hacking and cracking are 2 very different things.
 

Green Yoshi

Member
Lol, really do you trust on Ubisoft things? Really do you think piracy on PC is 95%? Lol.
So how much copies would sell Black Flag on PC without piracy?

I see what you did there. ;-)

PC games getting cheaper and cheaper while getting bigger and bigger. If you don't pay filehosters 10-20$ per month, it takes weeks to download 50 gb. Some providers here in Germany even block filehosters after 75 gb per month.
 

Radec

Member
The only thing that I think that works with regards to piracy is making the game online-only like Diablo III.

But that's just another can of worms.
 

pa22word

Member
Good. Considering there's not a shred of evidence other than members of the pirating community shitting up the Lords of the Fallen steam forums pointing to their being any repercussions to this drm, I welcome it wholeheartedly. Especially considering the game has been proven by a 100% unbiased source to be the best version of the game, performance wise.

Fuck pirates. The sooner we whip their shitstain off the face of pc gaming, the more legitimacy the platform gets. If this DRM ends up working as well in a widespread fashion as it does in Lords of the Fallen, I hope every single game from here on out uses it. Again, fuck pirates.
 

MBR

Banned
Guess R* won't be getting any money from me then. I can't wait to see how fast it gets cracked.
 

MaLDo

Member
It would be interesting to see some sales numbers for FIFA 15 PC, especially compared to FIFA 14 PC. FIFA 15 PC is still uncracked.

Pointless because FIFA 15 is the first FIFA using ignite engine on PC, so it is a real reason in rising sales.

GTA V selling a ton on pc -> ey, DRM over DRM works well dudes!
Witcher III selling a ton on pc -> listen, no DRM works well too dudes!!!


Mmm, what if good games sell good period??
 
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