Fuz
Banned
GTA IV ran like shit.
-
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Rumor: Grand Theft Auto V will use additional DRM on PC (Steam + Denuvo)
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
GTA IV ran like shit.
The Janitor
Member
How about not being able to play the game you bought because the DRM is stopping you? Yeah, that happens a lot.
I couldn't play Max Payne 3, which I bought on Steam, just because of social club. And I only wanted to play singleplayer, which for some reason needs social club
You're acting as if DRM never causes any problems for the consumer and only hurts the pirate, more often that not it's the opposite.
Anegdotal evidence here, I know several of my friends who pirate games just because they can, not because they can't affort it (they have brand new iPhone's, new computers with SLI, etc). That's the "Why do you buy it when you can download it for free approach". They play most new games day one. But for example they've bought Diablo 3 because that game is still not properly cracked.
I'm not saying that piracy means one unsold copy for a pirated one. But it surely means that SOME sales are lost. That's why publishers try to impletent DRM in their products. Because they have the data.
QUICK EDIT: I'm against DRM, mostly because everytime I run into some problems with it (MP3 was the latest example).
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
GTA4 ran like crap on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 as well. Did you play the same GTA 5 that I did? Let that sink in for just a second because not only was GTA 5 a huge step up, particularly on ps3, but why wouldn't that thought make you rationally think that Rockstar has not only updated their graphics engine and all that it could pertain to, but in the process everything is more optimized.
Take a look at GTA 5 on PlayStation 3 as an example. Coming from GTA 4 and Red Dead Redemption, Rockstar always short changed or just never could get the PlayStation 3 versions of their games to be as good as the 360 version. Not only did the ps3 version match the 360 versions resolution but some said it look better.
I have no worries about a PC release or even the Playstation 4 or Xbox one version releases after seeing the strides they made with GTA 5. And that game looks incremental a better than GTA 4. Allow me to be anticipated even more after repeating that once again because as a fellow PC gamer, that makes me more excited to see the game run at a smooth 60 + frames per second at high resolutions.
Problem was not that the game ran like shit but that I wasn't even able to play it because of the DRM stuff (GFWL, SecuROM, R* Social Club)... It just didn't let me save my game.
PrimaNocta
Member
unfortunately, currently steam drm is easily broken and games protected with it are pirated... so Denuvo has to be using something much more complicated
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I'm waiting for a drm that locks the frame rate and resolution of pc games.
didn't buy that new 970? No super sampled 60fps for you.
didn't buy that new 970? No super sampled 60fps for you.
Considering the response of everyone who has FIFA 15 and LotF when told it has DRM is "...it does?", followed by feigned outrage when some dude from reddit goes on the steam forums and posts complete bullshit (repeated here as almost the word of god by some) it suddenly "becomes" a problem.
And on top of that, who really knows what kind of user information the DRM software actually sends to the provider. And what kind of vulnerabilities it opens up (see the Sony CD DRM from 2005-2007).
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Agree, that sucked. I got bit by that twice. Mainly a GFWL issue. Thank God it's Steamworks with 5.
Gotta wonder what they're parterning up with Rockstar for, then.
However, i hope this is true.
RDR, what else?
nature boy
Member
Is this confirmed or is everyone just jumping to conclusions based on the partners section of Denuvo's website?
Fifa not being cracked doesn't mean the DRM is useful, but if you're not capable of understanding that piracy is irrelevant to sales, then you would t be able to understand.
The Janitor
Member
Maybe not those games but there's been a lot of problems with Rockstar games.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
It clearly works because DIFA15 and Lords of the fallen haven't been cracked yet. That's not to say that dedicated pirate teams aren't working feverishly on alleviating that.
For me, as a legitimate consumer, if this does nothing to curtail or impact my experience then I don't see it as a problem right now. If it has no bearing on mods or other user created fixes, then the world will keep turning and I will be a happy camper on PC.
That's part DRM and partly due to R* being terrible at making games that run above 25 fps.
There's certainly a cost associated to the use of a specific DRM, given that the company who made it certainly wants to gain something.
So to be "worth it" the game publisher needs, first of all, to compensate for all the money paid to include it in all the copies that would've been bought by honest people, even without DRM.
I suppose the publishers do some (complex?) evaluation and obviously they think it's worth it, if they choose to use the specific DRM, but I can't avoid to wonder if they apply the idiotic approach we see in some of the statements they use against piracy, where they seem to think the amount of pirated copies is equal to the amount of lost sales.
Do you really think it's anything but this? What else can one expect from a company that thought that R* Social Gaming Club was a good idea.
Wouldn't count on this. Also seems weird original message isn't included.
They clearly say they aren't involved with GTA V, which may be true.
They however don't claim they aren't involved with Rockstar, who may or may not use their technology on GTA V. It's still months to the release and some DRM are just wrapper which doesn't require much integration with code = can be applied in short time.
This seems to be wrapper that prevents edits to the code, while code must contain another DRM check, eg. Steam/Origin DRM.
But it this point everything is 100% pure speculation and I doubt we will know before release.
Ploid 3.0
Member
So is GTAV PC always online? What does this mean? Does Denuvo in those listed games require internet access?
If it does require online to change the DRM key these kinds of restrictions it just drive people that don't pirate to find a hack that allow them to not deal with the DRM limiting them.
If it does require online to change the DRM key these kinds of restrictions it just drive people that don't pirate to find a hack that allow them to not deal with the DRM limiting them.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Half of the game is always online, for half of the game is the separate experience known as GTA Online. Then there's also the online stock market, which you can access in single player.
DeadManWalking
Member
We need more DRM in our DRM.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I really didn't want to get GTAV on PS4 if I double dip (haven't touched GTAV PS3 in a very long time), but it seems like Rockstar really wants people to not get the PC versions of their GTA games. Who knows how well it will even run. GTAIV was a mess for me. Will wait on a sale, and most importantly, to see if mods will work well for this or if Denuvo will reject them from working. This was my original plan anyway.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Is Denuvo different from Execryptor? It was the latter that was said to be in play in Lords of the Fallen and responsible for all the problems that were being caused.
toddhunter
Member
Better protection of Rockstar social club accounts.
Sentenza
Member
While this is at least encouraging, it may vry well be just a case of "We aren't going to confirm shit until Rockstar is willing to do it first".
Crisis averterd.
CaptainGyro
Banned
Is there proof that piracy is totally irrelevant to sales? Because you keep saying it and it's like you're just expecting people to take your word for it without really showing anything
Conkerkid11
Member
As long as it doesn't require us to create several different accounts, always having to be online or just being a pain in the ass and not really working even though you've purchased it I don't care. History though. History teaches us that the consumers always suffer because of something like this. There's no way to stop piracy if there are pirates who really want to hack your creations! I remember Ubisoft being so proud of their always online crap for assassins creed 2. Not even a week after release people could actually play it without having to buy it. In the meantime they claimed that people claiming they were playing it for free were all bullshitting.
The Rockstar logo has been there for months according to Internet Archive, not put up recently like the OP suggests. it seems to me like Denuvo are just listing their previous clients of SecureRom.
pc piracy isn't dramatically rampant across the entire market, and making games available and affordable to players in pirating blackspots (i.e russia) has helped significantly.
there's a sufficient and sustainable market for people who legitimately buy games, and developers wouldn't be tripping over themselves to put their games on pc if there wasn't a viable market.
hobbling games for actual legitimate buyers to keep theoretical pirates out is anti-consumer. this isn't even considering the third layer of DRM that is rockstar social club being implemented.
Well, there's evidence that indicates that DRM negatively affects sales. There's nothing to suggest that cutting out pirates increases game sales. Publishers seem to be consistently doing well on the platform now, last quarter Ubisoft made more off PC than the XBO or 360, and PC was EAs largest individual platform revenue earner (most likely). The stronger the platform is, the more publishers will want to protect their interests there, unfortunately they'll likely do in a corporate, hamfisted way.
Fuz
Banned
Wishful fanboy thinking.
And please explain, HOW can you guarantee it will not be the same crap, exactly?
I know, it's outrageous.
Like any other PC gamer, I don't like DRM, but I think we are jumping the gun here on GTAV (no pun intended).
Since it looks like that Lords of the Fallen is used as an example of the issues with this new DRM, I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a second. Beside one post from a random user on the Steam forums, there is no concrete evidence that the DRM in question has anything to do with the problems the game has been having since release.
I have the game and had random crashes up until the 1.2 patch released a couple of days ago. IMHO the performance and stability issues with Lords of the Fallen have more to do with poor optimization and bugs than anything else. The fact that systems running NVidia seem to be the more impacted and by simply disabling Physx seems to improve the stability of the game, should tell you something.
As far as I'm concerned, if GTAV will have this extra DRM will be less than ideal, but as long as it stays out of my way without causing problems and it doesn't limit the number of reinstalls, I'm ok with it.
Since it looks like that Lords of the Fallen is used as an example of the issues with this new DRM, I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a second. Beside one post from a random user on the Steam forums, there is no concrete evidence that the DRM in question has anything to do with the problems the game has been having since release.
I have the game and had random crashes up until the 1.2 patch released a couple of days ago. IMHO the performance and stability issues with Lords of the Fallen have more to do with poor optimization and bugs than anything else. The fact that systems running NVidia seem to be the more impacted and by simply disabling Physx seems to improve the stability of the game, should tell you something.
As far as I'm concerned, if GTAV will have this extra DRM will be less than ideal, but as long as it stays out of my way without causing problems and it doesn't limit the number of reinstalls, I'm ok with it.
Dorsal Axe
Member
But GTA Online on the other hand...
Gangxxter
Member
Legit?
I dunno. IMHO it's as legit as the source in the OP.
Banana Aeon
Member
I'm going to have to see the receipts on this one. If the Denuvo isn't in GTAV, I'll gladly triple-dip.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
It's sad that even if Denuvo isn't really in GTAV that because of Rockstar's past behavior we expect to be screwed over in some way.
