Psychological Intellect
Banned
Holy fucking shit at that panel video.
Best in game model i have ever seen ever. Holy fuck
Best in game model i have ever seen ever. Holy fuck
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF: Is Uncharted 4 the generational leap we were hoping for?
- Thread starter valkyre
- Start date
Don't eat the cave mushrooms, Nate!Wowza.
Golgo 13
The Man With The Golden Dong
The biggest difference between the threads is that the ND Nutflea Squad(TM) isn't frothing at the mouth in face of criticism here. The article expresses mild disappointment at the visuals, I probably expressed a little more.
And to be clear, my post wasn't hyperbolic -- that's what you choose to perceive because my opinion is more than a few degrees off yours - then that's your right to do so and we can discuss it instead of posting stupid GIFS and accusing each other of trolling. Like adults, you know?
Lys Skygge
Member
After watching the panel video I'm not entirely convinced there was much of a downgrade from the E3 reveal. The E3 reveal was just staged in perfect lighting conditions and the use of shallow depth of field allowed any flaws in the environment to be hidden.
I guess we'll know for sure when the game is finished and is shipped with an inevitable photomode!
I guess we'll know for sure when the game is finished and is shipped with an inevitable photomode!
Yeah, I've been saying for a while that the E3 vid was very carefully made to hide flaws and play to the engine's strengths. The biggest difference is the framerate. I wish we could get a straight answer from ND about what their final target is. If that E3 video was 30fps, I don't think people would be as critical of this footage.
If they did drop the target, it was a monumentally stupid move to publicly announce and release 60fps footage. No one expected Uncharted to be more than 30 to begin with.
JordanN
Banned
Wowza.
Anyone still doubt we're not going to see a huge leap throughout the generation?
To me, It was never about the architecture or horsepower, but developers learning what new things they could actually do with it. With human skin rendering, I think developers will require many years of nailing roughness, pupil dilation, translucency, tension, soft body, and so much more.
Anyway, on the topic of eyes, do you think they'll ever implement Tapetum lucidum? I see that effect all the time when looking at my cat.
Anyone still doubt we're not going to see a huge leap throughout the generation?
To me, It was never about the architecture or horsepower, but developers learning what new things they could actually do with it. With human skin rendering, I think developers will require many years of nailing roughness, pupil dilation, translucency, tension, soft body, and so much more.
Anyway, on the topic of eyes, do you think they'll ever implement Tapetum lucidum? I see that effect all the time when looking at my cat.
That's a weird looking cat.
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
Thanks.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Here: http://www.gamersyde.com/download_u...end_psx_demo_fixed_black_levels-33753_en.html being a betetr version than this even lighter :http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142166185&postcount=2661 since the latter has some artefacts adn sound sync problems. Go for gamersyde updated video.
NP, enjoy.
The quality is so much better than the youtube video, wow.
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
T
he fact that all of this effects the gameplay is the best part.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Wow, this is even more impressive than this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139482778&postcount=946
Also from the other thread (thanks Shin-Ra): All soft bodies are affected by the same wind simulation:
BigTnaples and SolidSnakex pics in the other thread :
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I think VFX_Veteran was positing this multiple times in threads but watching the Naughty Dog panel, a shading artist confirms that they are indeed using PBR.
And I'm still not convinced they are using actual physically-plausible BRDFs like CryEngine is using. They show a few slides, but they never mention the BRDF they are using, how are they dealing with energy conservation (fresnel doesn't mean energy conservation if you can crank up your diffuse and specular weights > 1), did they switch to a deferred shading engine to make things work right. I need more info.
All I saw was that they went from baking in lighting information into textures, to creating a giant shading network with switches for applying texture maps depending on what's going on in game.
PBR isn't just about getting a diffuse and specular model onto a shader, but getting a physically plausible specular and diffuse model into the shader and modifying the material piepline to work well with the lighting. Crytek goes in depth with there presentation on Ryse and is actually using most of the models film studios use. In Driveclub, AC:U, Order 1886 and Ryse -- you can clearly see the differentiation in gameplay.
I can't tell anything from that demo. I was also expecting the leaves to at least have light propagation like in some games, but it's not there. Maybe that's not why I'm so impressed with the "look" of the gameplay footage. I love the cutscene footage though. Looks great!
nelsonroyale
Member
That looks incredible and as impressive as the E3 model in my opinion. You can see the difference ideal lighting makes as well. They said it was used in game, but it would have been good if they actually zoomed up close to his face in the gameplay footage to actually demonstrate that unequivacally.
Have you seen the gamma corrected Gamersyde vid? The materials rendering looks considerably better there. I watched it before but I just put it up on my TV (literally watching it as I type) and you can see the minor details much better.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
That gamma corrected video made the demo look much better (not blown out) but I still can't tell much. The water looks pretty bland, the leaves look good with the specular highlight but no backscattering. Trees look ok..His clothes (while moving well to animation) don't look as realistic as the clothes in other games.
I want to see shit like this:
Notice how that one shader can change for every piece of material that has a different look to it. And you can notice it immediately.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I may partially agree with that like how they should learn the lesson from The Order about realistic cloth rendering obeying to physical laws for the look and get some backscattering effects and energy conservation on the flora like Driveclub (the best foliage represenation in gameplay in terms of lighting to date). About the water, It seemed not that realistic to me at first glance but 2 days ago I rewatched the first Tomb Raider movie and saw the real life water behaving like that in some occasions. Ever heard of heavy waters? It behaves like that, I remember someone showing it in another thread or maybe another site some time ago so such waters may be an indication of the location of the island thus a part of the story.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I'm talking about the look of the water seen from a distance. It doesn't look good at all.. no light propagates through it.
Look at AC:Black Flag (best looking water in any game)
Notice how you can see light propagate through it and the specular highlights are consistent and in a believable manner.
Raitosaito
Member
I feel like vfx_veteran only reference the AC series.
Like come on mang.
Like come on mang.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I'm talking about the look of the water seen from a distance. It doesn't look good at all.. no light propagates through it.
Look at AC:Black Flag (best looking water in any game)
Notice how you can see light propagate through it and the specular highlights are consistent and in a believable manner.
Dude again. This is not the same type of water. There are so many types. Heavy water are almos opaque. It is not a matter of taste but of credibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnyFjCJPwtk
nelsonroyale
Member
Heavy seas you mean? That means how seas behave under heavy weather (i.e. harsh conditions).
I think the water looks better than AC BF aesthetically, especially in the cave, even if it doesn't behave as realistically. Reminds me of what was in Ryse. The spray from the waterfall looks especially awesome.
Ipsoclipso
Member
This game is the best looking game I have ever seen on consoles, and it's aiming 60fps too.
Naught Dogs are Gods on what they do.
Naught Dogs are Gods on what they do.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Here ya go:
Ryse destroys UC4 in overall look IMO. That's what I call a rock face with water coming down and shrubs covering it. And that's gameplay footage.. not a cutscene. Of all the pics I've seen on these threads, no one puts up actual gameplay footage screenshots.., why is that? That's what we'll be seeing 90% of the time.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Yeah I meant heavy seas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalYOmBvgpk
Th scenery at the beginning of the video is almost identical to the one in the videos with dreary sky and no clear sky enabling sun to shine freely. The sea in that location must be the heavy type too after looking at its waves beahviour and ighting. This is not the same setting with shining sun and clear sky and fresh water like in the Caribbean like in AC4. Not because someone wants sth he saw in such game that he liked in terms of artistical beauty that it must apply to every situation and location on earth. It doesn't mean that Uncharted 4 water are bad, on the contrary, they are very fitting in such location and situation.
Here ya go:
Ryse destroys UC4 in overall look IMO. That's what I call a rock face with water coming down and shrubs covering it. And that's gameplay footage.. not a cutscene. Of all the pics I've seen on these threads, no one puts up actual gameplay footage screenshots.., why is that? That's what we'll be seeing 90% of the time.
Lol then again you are showing Ryse with a limpid water coming from waterfall, another type of water. Uncharted 4 is having heavy foamy water from heavy waterfalls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pran8kTtWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49rOOGhAnRo
I am sure you have serious personal problems with ND that you should settle with them outisde forums since you will never give them credits whatver they do and even proven wrong many times. Anyway good luck with that
nelsonroyale
Member
Here ya go:
Ryse destroys UC4 in overall look IMO. That's what I call a rock face with water coming down and shrubs covering it. And that's gameplay footage.. not a cutscene. Of all the pics I've seen on these threads, no one puts up actual gameplay footage screenshots.., why is that? That's what we'll be seeing 90% of the time.
Don't agree at all...In motion I think Ryse looks more like a tech demo, everything pops, but it doesn't have a particularly naturalistic look. I think U4 achieves this better. The landscape view also looked much more convincing to me than any I have seen in Ryse. Vegetation also looks like an improvement to me. Ryse certainly holds up though.
Mind=blown that people find UC4 graphics "disappointing"
I thought it looked amazing personally...it's the best forest graphics I've seen in videogame. I never used to like the forest setting in videogames because it's hard for games to properly depict all the details in a lush forest environment (like MGS3 on ps2)... but UC4 seems to get it right. There is so much detail in the leaves and environment.
I thought it looked amazing personally...it's the best forest graphics I've seen in videogame. I never used to like the forest setting in videogames because it's hard for games to properly depict all the details in a lush forest environment (like MGS3 on ps2)... but UC4 seems to get it right. There is so much detail in the leaves and environment.
TheKastorian
Member
And people still think U4 was downgraded. Hahaha!
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Not as good as the Ryse GIF I just showed. No way.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
It was downgraded.
Hair has no self-shadowing, the count of hairs also looks smaller.
No light shafts
Lighting not showing any indirect
Water drops gone
Sharp shadows cast from light source, not very detailed textures on the rocks ( I hate the work done on the rocks the most), hair isn't occluded properly. No self-shadowing of this body pieces (whip, shirt, etc..).
Read this article:
http://www.dsogaming.com/screenshot...vs-ryse-vs-assassins-creed-unity-vs-crysis-3/
nelsonroyale
Member
Could you make a decent gif? The quality in that is a bit crap.
Rock texture detail is obviously high, care to demonstrate anything to the contrary? Also, can you back up your assertions with some proof? You don't provide any. You just make statements and highlight areas in the E3 trailer.
Coolbgdog12
Member
I swaer this VFX_veteran guy has been on a rampage lately.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Stop being silly. Prove to me that they researched water types for a game. Please.
And it still doesn't look good.
I am sure you have serious personal problems with ND that you should settle with them outisde forums since you will never give them credits whatver they do and even proven wrong many times. Anyway good luck with that
I have no personal problem with ND. I am just showing that its' not as good looking in actual gameplay as people are making it out to be. I'm at least SHOWING you the things that bug me about the video instead of just making blanket statements.
Hell, I even mentioned that occlusion reflection in The Order 1886 that was supposed to take care of reflections.. It looks horrible. And Dictator got official word that it wasn't using SSR but the occlusion technique. I also mention I outright hate that stupid pop-in LOD in AC:U. It's immersion breaking for sure.
So I do critque other games..
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I don't need to. Any trained eye can see the differences between those. It doesn't need to be high res. Look at the colors! You can tell very easily which one appears more realistic to your eyes.
You say it's high. How so? I can see a wet specular layer, and a brownish texture. I see no self-shadowing or high variation in the rocks. They also stick out like a sour thumb for climbing. There is no variation between types of rock.. They all look like the same rock.
I just gave GAMEPLAY gifs. How is it that I don't provide any? I tell you what how about YOU show me an UC4 gameplay gif that blows away anything that has come out lately.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Calling me silly because I shwoed that there are many types of water and that this is not the water you want brag about in your worshipepd AC games while otehr devs used other types of waters that you think are dumb? Also still insisting that the game didn't, doesn't and won't look good and forcing people to think the same as you or otherwise insult them and call them dumb or silly or fanatics. Ok! I wish you all the good luck with that.
Wowza.
That one, too, is creepy as hell. But very cool tech.
I agree UC4 doesnt have the greatest looking water, seems ND couldnt quite get the look of water foam right. But its at least full on waves, Im not sure what youre trying to show with that AC pic. Looks like Mario Sunshine water.I'm talking about the look of the water seen from a distance. It doesn't look good at all.. no light propagates through it.
Look at AC:Black Flag (best looking water in any game)
Notice how you can see light propagate through it and the specular highlights are consistent and in a believable manner.
Keep in mind UC4 is showing an ocean of water and a waterfall in the same scene. That rise shot looks like a little stream.Here ya go:
Ryse destroys UC4 in overall look IMO. That's what I call a rock face with water coming down and shrubs covering it. And that's gameplay footage.. not a cutscene. Of all the pics I've seen on these threads, no one puts up actual gameplay footage screenshots.., why is that? That's what we'll be seeing 90% of the time.
He's quite a pop-corn material guy.
nelsonroyale
Member
Calling me silly because I shwoed that there are many types of water and that this is not the water you want brag about in your worshipepd AC games while otehr devs used other types of waters that you think are dumb? Also still insisting that the game didn't, doesn't and won't look good and forcing people to think the same as you or otherwise insult them and call them dumb or silly or fanatics. Ok! I wish you all the good luck with that.
Yeah an agenda is highlighted by the amount of time one spends pointed out the balance of flaws and strengths in one example versus other examples. VFX is more extreme than most in this in this aspect, but at least he doesn't leave it at one liners and seems to have some technical knowledge (far more than I). Doesn't make him right though in terms of many all his assertions though.
He was the same in BF4 versus KZ...later he came out praising KZ when he actually played it. I have no doubt he will be highly impressed with U4 when he actually plays it.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
VFX is on a warpath.
This game looks unbelievable. And I am one of Ryse's biggest fans.
This game looks unbelievable. And I am one of Ryse's biggest fans.
?Here ya go:
Ryse destroys UC4 in overall look IMO. That's what I call a rock face with water coming down and shrubs covering it. And that's gameplay footage.. not a cutscene. Of all the pics I've seen on these threads, no one puts up actual gameplay footage screenshots.., why is that? That's what we'll be seeing 90% of the time.
That UC4 gif is gameplay too. I think that waterfall looks fine in UC4 as well, it looks very realistic to me, it has the quality of light I would expect of foamy/rough water in shadow. It looks not dissimilar from something like this:
I think the ocean water in the UC4 demo wasn't great. It seemed like just an animated texture on top of polygonal waves, but it looked okay considering it was essentially just a fancy skybox/background element. The waterfall and cave water looked good to me though.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
What?? How do you consider a more cartoony landscape and materials to be more "naturalistic"? That makes no sense. That's like saying you think a cartoon show looks more natural than a photoreal movie? Really??
XxRampage07xX
Member
Just imagine how things would be when Star Citizen comes out. VFX would dominate this forum I guess
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Wait a minute. You did show that there are many types of water. I agree with that. However, what I'm saying is that the water in the UC4 demo doesn't look impressing to me. I don't like how they implemented the specular layer on top.. nor how the light reflects off of it's surface. I never mentioned the movement of physics of the water.
You are being hyperbolic. I never told you I thought they were dumb.
LOL! I'm not forcing anyone on anything. I can state my opinion with backup shots like anyone else can.
Hope this isn't too far off topic, but I've been really impressed with the water in DAI, especially on Storm Coast. I'm not an expert like you guys, but I have been playing ACU, Ryse, FC4 on a 970. Gonna pick up Driveclub tomorrow. I do appreciate reading the back and forth between VFx and many others.
I will agree that ACU maxed is the most impressive thing I've played on the plasma, although Ryse is right there. The latest from The Order looks amazing, more so than this for sure.
If UC4 looks like this and runs at 60, I will be super impressed. If just 30 though, not so much.
I will agree that ACU maxed is the most impressive thing I've played on the plasma, although Ryse is right there. The latest from The Order looks amazing, more so than this for sure.
If UC4 looks like this and runs at 60, I will be super impressed. If just 30 though, not so much.
nelsonroyale
Member
You think Ryse looks more realistic? I agree it is attempting to get closer to realism, I don't think it achieves it though. I wouldn't say the rock work in Ryse is particularly varied either, it is mosly pretty blocky. I come from the areas depicted in Ryse and I can tell it is pretty awesome, but is pretty limited in its representation of geomorphology in these areas (Scottish Highlands or English Lake District?). Still, that is probably an unfair criticism.
gundamkyoukai
Member
This is just silly statement to make because you can't prove that did not do any research.( most devs do researched stuff)
Do you really not see what you is be doing ?
You talk about how the engine might not be using PBR , we get info it does use it and now you saying you don't like how there PBR system works\looks .
You comparing a demo that was rush out in 2 to 3 week to a final game and UC4 still has 10 to 11 months to go .
VFX_Veteran
Banned
That wasn't my point though. I'm just stating that just grabbing a few frames of gameplay from each of those games and doing something similar to the camera, you get a world of difference in rendering/image quality in just 5secs And I'm talking everything: self-shadowing on the solider vs. no self-shadowing on Drake, texture detail, lighting, scattering, SSS, etc... People who deny that that Ryse GIF doesn't trump that UC4 gif (same situation) is really in denial.
You tend to be very forceful and antagonistic with your opinion, as if it has more objective weight to it than others. It tends to become less a discussion when you enter the thread and more a "Uncharted doesn't look good and you are wrong. Here's another game that does ____ better in a way that fits into my tastes and often times arbitrary rules for what constitutes good/better/"right" use of the technology."
Similar threads
- Locked