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Star Wars The Force Awakens Trailer

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Trike

Member
Ah, yes, I missed your point. Yeah, actually building a story around the fight is essential, but as we've established earlier in his career: Lucas is a terrible writer. The Maul-scene in particular felt like "and then they come across Darth Maul and they fight. Darth Maul loses and dies."

I actually came across something similar in a movie I was watching yesterday, where the two villains' motivation was simply greed and pride, which accumulated to a fight I had no invested emotional value. I wasn't cheering for any party in those fights.

I really thought Kevin Smith detested the prequels with a burning passion. Maybe I remember wrong.

Yeah, Lucas is a terrible screenwriter. He should never be in charge of dialogue or the specifics, at least on a grand scale. If he just came up with the story for the prequels and let other writers/directors take reign they probably would have been fine. But I totally got your point too, and some of the fight scenes definitely would have been improved significantly by better choreography. In the Phantom Menace, imagine how much more powerful Qui-Gon's death would have been if it made Obi-Wan go from the fanciful routine he has been doing to a form similar to look starting to lose control of his emotions in RotJ. Or if Anakin and Obi-Wan's fight wasn't exactly like all of the other fights in the prequel trilogy but longer.

Smith defended Hayden Christensen and said he enjoyed the prequels. IIRC, George/LucasFilm/Hayden or someone was pissed at Smith for the bashing of the prequels in Clerks 2. He then told them that he enjoyed the prequels and liked Hayden, and tried to show how much of a tool the Lord of the Rings fan was being.

I hope not. It just looks like the prequel fights on crack. Lot of lazy ship designs there. I'm hoping for a much more reserved style of fighting, at least for some of the participants.

It would be cool is Luke's style remained relatively unchanged from ROTJ but showed that he could hold his own against others with perhaps a more prequel style - providing how showy and indulgent the latter is.

That would be pretty cool to see actually. I imagine Luke wouldn't be a huge fan of the way the old Jedi's operated.

I'm just saying it is literally too early to start panicking over something that has yet to even be an issue. It comes off more as a fear of change, rather than the makers doing something wrong.

Doesn't make it less tired.

No, you were defending something else entirely. It isn't a fear of change, it is a fear of things staying the same. BTW, people have been defending the prequels for just as long as people have been bashing them. Actually longer, because George Lucas had to defend his own work to himself before the movie even came out. Check out the behind scenes videos.
 

Cheebo

Banned
If Luke fights like he does in the original trilogy, it will be a fucking travesty. He fights like an angry kid with barely any knowledge of using a bladed weapon (which is actually pretty accurate to his character).

I don't see why that would change based on what we know, in that
he still remains the last Jedi and has been in hiding for years if not decades.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I really thought Kevin Smith detested the prequels with a burning passion. Maybe I remember wrong.

I remember him gushing with the exact same fanboy praise for each prequel as it released. As time went on, he came in line with the more negative long term impressions, but he was absolutely the most unreliable apologist in the early impressions department.

I watched his impressions of the Episode VII set last night, actually. And while I did enjoy them on some level (I like the guy).... make no mistake, he is the quintessential blubbering fanboy. Everything's amazing and full of potential and peachy fucking keen. The dude is a Star Wars whore to his core.
 

Cheebo

Banned
I remember him gushing with the exact same fanboy praise for each prequel as it released. As time went on, he came in line with the more negative long term impressions, but he was absolutely the most unreliable apologist in the early impressions department.

Actually said he still likes them. He said he still enjoys them for what they are in one of his appearances where he talked about visiting the TFA set.
 

Jaeger

Member
I don't see why that would change based on what we know, in that
he still remains the last Jedi and has been in hiding for years if not decades.

In story, I'm sure he didn't prop himself up on a couch and watch TV for 30 years. I'm sure at some point, he has been training himself to be a better Jedi in as many ways as possible. Outside of the plot, I'm more than sure JJ wouldn't allow such slow, archaic fights scenes to take center stage in a film like this.

Let's not be silly.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Actually said he still likes them. He said he still enjoys them for what they are in one of his appearances where he talked about visiting the TFA set.

Sure, but compared to his initial unrestrained praise for the prequels, he's clearly had to couch his language in qualifications.
 

Dommo

Member
They should hire a proper fight choreographer. It makes all the difference, regardless of the lightsaberform.

This shits all over the prequel fights


The prequel lightsaber battles, in terms of immediate style and choreography I had no problem with. Stroke for stroke I thought that shit was pretty impressive: fast paced, high energy (higher energy than anything else in the films) and it reflects the immense amount of skill and focus a Jedi would have to have (once again, moreso than most of the rest of whatever the Jedi are up to in these films).

The problem is that beyond that it really isn't used to tell story in any way. They begin at the same high energy, the same flashy, dipshitty moves, they sometimes move from room to room but there's no significance to that. There's not often a change in tone. There's not often a turn of character. They just fight and fight until someone loses because the script says so. There are very few examples of the prequel fights developing in any way.

Compare it to the masterful ESB climax. Luke walks into a metaphorical hell (perfectly set dressed) and he'll begin by nervously jabbing at Vader who takes the time to size him up. Eventually Vader decides to prod Luke's ego, and forcefully knocks him back - a taste of Vader's real power. Luke and his saber part ways, and he has to use his wits to get out of the sticky situation. He does and this impresses Vader long enough to distract him so Luke can slip away. A win for Luke.

This angers Vader and he decides to step it up a notch. Luke descends further into this dark abyss. The scenery is becoming increasingly unsettling - we can hear the faint, chilling sounds of Vader's breathing. Vader steps out of the shadows, bringing us to the 'force throwing shit at Luke' sequence where Vader, Luke and the audience realise that Vader is sternly in control, and that at this point he's just about toying with him. How the hell can our hero compete with this relentless power? It's frightening and tense and Luke seems helpless. He gets knocked out the window, almost to his death.

He climbs up but now we're in this massive void of a room - a desolate, hopeless place. Vader comes hulking out of the shadows, wailing on Luke (complete with the 'intense breathing' - scary shit). Luke can only block and block - there's really nothing more than he can do, firmly on the defense. He continues to be pushed back and back and while he tries to get in some kind of defiant push back, Vader's strength and intimidation keeps pushing him towards that antenna. Vader's so intimidating at this point he's chopping up the railing - sparks are flying until Luke is ultimately knocked on the ground - nowhere to go. It's no mistake that the spot where he's physically unable to move, literally hanging to the edge is also the place where he has to face his fears and make a real, character defining choice.

Every department has come together to create something really special here. With minimal dialogue, the whole story unfolds perfectly before our eyes. Stakes and power struggles are set brilliantly. This is being told to us through the lightsaber action - a lot of it through the choreography. It's also important to note that the audience understands why Luke has lost this fight - through the action and the choreography, we can see he's massively outclassed by the brute-like Vader who's forced him into a corner. Luke is visibly exhausted; Vader seems like he's just getting started.

The fucking 3-way in TPM is cool and does what I mentioned in the first paragraph, but it's not telling story. No way. They just fight and fight and fight through a hallway, through a big bluesy hangar room (which in no way reflects character state of mind as it does in ESB), through some shields and then in a small room (???) at the same pace, same energy, same attack/defense. When Qui-Gon gets done, for a second it looks as though Obi-Wan has upped his game, and he sorta has, but it's not as though he's really anymore on the offensive than he was before - it's just a touch faster.

Basically what I'm saying is, the style of of the prequel's fighting style isn't the problem - stylistically and tonally you can do this shit in any number of ways. What's important is that it's always being used to tell that story.
 

Trike

Member
In story, I'm sure he didn't prop himself up on a couch and watch TV for 30 years. I'm sure at some point, he has been training himself to be a better Jedi in as many ways as possible. Outside of the plot, I'm more than sure JJ wouldn't allow such slow, archaic fights scenes to take center stage in a film like this.

Let's not be silly.

The lightsaber duels in the original trilogy were slow, but they were not archaic; they were deliberately slow. You know, to add things like tension to the fights and leave the audience in suspense. They were continuing the story, not stopping in the middle to play Laser Floyd. The faster paced scenes were usually the dogfights, but that is not what the lightsaber duels were supposed to be about.

What if it's bad?

Clearly wouldn't stop him.
 

Jaeger

Member
The lightsaber duels in the original trilogy were slow, but they were not archaic; they were deliberately slow. You know, to add things like tension to the fights and leave the audience in suspense. They were continuing the story, not stopping in the middle to play Laser Floyd. The faster paced scenes were usually the dogfights, but that is not what the lightsaber duels were supposed to be about.

You should take a second to read Dommo's post.

Clearly wouldn't stop him.

You don't know a thing about me, though?
 

Trike

Member
You should take a second to read Dommo's post.

I did, I suggest you reread past the first paragraph. My whole issue was that they were all flash and no substance. The only thing I would disagree with his that every lightsaber fight in the prequel trilogy looked the same terms of how they were fighting. It didn't matter if it was defense from an attacker, avenging his fallen master, or regretfully fighting your former brother-in-arms. Or even if you were a Jedi or a Sith. It just got really monotonous, especially with how long the climax in Revenge of the Sith got. Not to mention that Yoda looked ridiculous fighting like that.

You don't know a thing about me, though?

Well I know you based off of this thread and, well, "history repeats itself time and time again".
 

Jaeger

Member
I did, I suggest you reread past the first paragraph. My whole issue was that they were all flash and no substance. The only thing I would disagree with his that every lightsaber fight in the prequel trilogy looked the same terms of how they were fighting. It didn't matter if it was defense from an attacker, avenging his fallen master, or regretfully fighting your former brother-in-arms. Or even if you were a Jedi or a Sith. It just got really monotonous, especially with how long the climax in Revenge of the Sith got. Not to mention that Yoda looked ridiculous fighting like that.

Your issue was stemming a lightsaber design though. It's all that stuck out in my mind.

Well I know you based off of this thread and, well, "history repeats itself time and time again".

....huh? Lmfao.
 
Not in the least bit. This is well choreographed sword play. This is what most of us want.

Right on the nose. Choreographed. No grit. Balletic. Boring. Not at all like a real sword fight. And clearly it isn't what most of us want. If it was we'd all be holding hands and loving the non-divisive nature of the prequel fights. This us is puzzling...

If Luke fights like he does in the original trilogy, it will be a fucking travesty. He fights like an angry kid with barely any knowledge of using a bladed weapon (which is actually pretty accurate to his character).

This above all should dictate his style of fight, not how badass it will look, but how it will reflect him as a character. A point missed entirely by the prequels and the video you posted.

Luke fought poorly in Empire. That was the point. He wasn't ready. He fought well in Jedi, overcoming Vader. As he became better so did his fighting. One would think that he's fighting style would have improved slightly since Jedi. Not massively and not to encompass the ridiculous prequel flourishes and over rehearsed look. But mostly inline with his own measured sweeping style.

The fights in the original films aren't sacred, they can be improved but you don't want to go to the prequel extremes.

What was lost in the prequel was the magical quality of the lightsaber, the elevating nature of wielding one. When a fight started it changed the film, it made it a very personal confrontation. The locations, dialogue and effects all made the fights seem otherworldly and grander than what came before. That's why the films have them, not because they reached act three and the audience wants the next glow stick fight. But because the film has reached a point where there literally has to be a one-on-one confrontation. It must happen. Motivations of characters and narrative circumstances led to it. It makes sense that these futuristic people throw down and sword fight. That needs to be addressed. They cluttered the screen in the prequel and they lost their mystique.
 

Trike

Member
Your issue was stemming a lightsaber design though. It's all that stuck out in my mind.



....huh? Lmfao.

Again, you are jumping between points. My issue was what the lightsaber represented, which was all flash and no substance. I dont have a problem with the design itself.
 

K' Dash

Member
I bought this bad boy yesterday, hype levels are reaching all time max.

XWing.jpg
 
They cluttered the screen in the prequel and they lost their mystique.
That is the whole point, genius. During OT most of the Jedi are dead or in hiding so of course there would be more mystique to the lightsaber fights. As opposed to the prequels that involve many Lightsaber wielding characters as it takes place before the purge.
 

Jaeger

Member
Right on the nose. Choreographed. No grit. Balletic. Boring. Not at all like a real sword fight. And clearly it isn't what most of us want. If it was we'd all be holding hands and loving the non-divisive nature of the prequel fights. This us is puzzling...

Opinions in poor taste, and lots of people will disagree.

This above all should dictate his style of fight, not how badass it will look, but how it will reflect him as a character. A point missed entirely by the prequels and the video you posted.

Another opinion in poor taste. These characters are clearly fighting with all their might. And aren''t just swinging around. Each strike is an attempt to clearly overwhelm their opponent, while trying best to not get hit themselves. Even showing how one character dominates the other despite multiple opponents. Something even the prequel films could never do properly.

Sometimes its apparent when someone is trying to be argumentative and simissive of something without merit. This is one of those cases.


Luke fought poorly in Empire. That was the point. He wasn't ready. He fought well in Jedi, overcoming Vader. As he became better so did his fighting. One would think that he's fighting style would have improved slightly since Jedi. Not massively and not to encompass the ridiculous prequel flourishes and over rehearsed look. But mostly inline with his own measured sweeping style.

Time will tell. I'm not saying the man is gonna go Darth Maul and stop hopping and flipping around like a Power Ranger. But clearly look knew how. There were several times in ROTJ where he leaped around and flipped during battle. And one could only imagine how this may be shown in modern day tech, versus 80's effects.

The fights in the original films aren't sacred...

Not the way you carry on. Apparently there is no room for improvement, based on how you describe it.

What was lost in the prequel was the magical quality of the lightsaber, the elevating nature of wielding one. When a fight started it changed the film, it made it a very personal confrontation. The locations, dialogue and effects all made the fights seem otherworldly and grander than what came before. That's why the films have them, not because they reached act three and the audience wants the next glow stick fight. But because the film has reached a point where there literally has to be a one-on-one confrontation. It must happen. Motivations of characters and narrative circumstances led to it. It makes sense that these futuristic people throw down and sword fight. That needs to be addressed. They cluttered the screen in the prequel and they lost their mystique.

This couldn't be helped. The nature of lightsabers and Force users changed when more characters were introduced, and the story went into the past as planned. Of course the mystification and mystery was present when the plot demanded it. There were only what, two Jedi left? The nature in how it was displayed was deliberate. When the prequels came around, and there were literally hundreds of living Jedi in an active war, things are different, and they naturally felt different. It was a more common place weapon. You will never get that feeling back, I assure you. Might as well hang up your robe if that is what you are chasing.

Again, you are jumping between points. My issue was what the lightsaber represented, which was all flash and no substance. I dont have a problem with the design itself.

We had an 88 second year out preview. We had like 2-3 seconds of lightsaber presentation. There is literally no way to present a brand new (to film) lightsaber design with substance in 2-3 seconds.
 
Well, we won't know what kind of impact it will have until the film actually comes out, now will we? Also, all of your complaints are just your view. Your opinion. Not everyone sees the prequels fights that way. The prequel hate is tired.

I love Star Wars. All 6 episodes.
Looking forward to VII, TFA, big time.

I'm gonna watch the movie and enjoy myself no matter what. Empire Strikes Back is the outlier. The style set throughout all the other movies is the standard and while yes, it would be great to get another movie with the depth and resonance of ESB, I'm fine with the style of the other 5 movies as well.

I feel like some people want it to feel exactly like it did when they were kids, and everything to be just like that.
There's a whole generation of kids raised on episodes 1-3 and The Clone Wars show who are going to be nostalgic in a while different way.
All I'm saying is prepare yourself for it to be Star Wars, not necessarily the idealized version of StarWars you wish had been made where every movie is like The Empire Strikes Back.
 
Opinions in poor taste, and lots of people will disagree.

Another opinion in poor taste. These characters are clearly fighting with all their might. And aren''t just swinging around. Each strike is an attempt to clearly overwhelm their opponent, while trying best to not get hit themselves. Even showing how one character dominates the other despite multiple opponents. Something even the prequel films could never do properly.

Sometimes its apparent when someone is trying to be argumentative and simissive of something without merit. This is one of those cases.

Time will tell. I'm not saying the man is gonna go Darth Maul and stop hopping and flipping around like a Power Ranger. But clearly look knew how. There were several times in ROTJ where he leaped around and flipped during battle. And one could only imagine how this may be shown in modern day tech, versus 80's effects.

Not the way you carry on. Apparently there is no room for improvement, based on how you describe it.

This couldn't be helped. The nature of lightsabers and Force users changed when more characters were introduced, and the story went into the past as planned. Of course the mystification and mystery was present when the plot demanded it. There were only what, two Jedi left? The nature in how it was displayed was deliberate. When the prequels came around, and there were literally hundreds of living Jedi in an active war, things are different, and they naturally felt different. It was a more common place weapon. You will never get that feeling back, I assure you. Might as well hang up your robe if that is what you are chasing.

I appear to be talking to a person with their finger on the pulse of every single Star Wars fan. I wish I could address this thoroughly. I don't know where to start because there is so much backwards ass stuff in your response.

But I'll get past the rude dismissive nature of you post and to the salient points. You think those characters (in the Old Republic clips) fight with all their might and with a level of intensity that improves upon what we saw in the prequels. There is indeed more variety to be sure but it still looks fakey fake. Still looks planned and rehearsed and regardless of how often someone says that the force is guiding their action, it doesn't fly. It doesn't feel real or as real as a lazer sword fight could feel. I don't feel anything for them. I don't care. It looks impressive but it soulless. Something the original films didn't lack for was soul.

I fear this discussion is a brick wall.
 

Trike

Member
We had an 88 second year out preview. We had like 2-3 seconds of lightsaber presentation. There is literally no way to present a brand new (to film) lightsaber design with substance in 2-3 seconds.

You are completely missing my point in a way that only those raised on the prequel's philosophy of "let me tell you instead of showing you" could miss.

I love Star Wars. All 6 episodes.
Looking forward to VII, TFA, big time.

I'm gonna watch the movie and enjoy myself no matter what. Empire Strikes Back is the outlier. The style set throughout all the other movies is the standard and while yes, it would be great to get another movie with the depth and resonance of ESB, I'm fine with the style of the other 5 movies as well.

I feel like some people want it to feel exactly like it did when they were kids, and everything to be just like that.
There's a whole generation of kids raised on episodes 1-3 and The Clone Wars show who are going to be nostalgic in a while different way.
All I'm saying is prepare yourself for it to be Star Wars, not necessarily the idealized version of StarWars you wish had been made where every movie is like The Empire Strikes Back.

Dumping in the prequels with Episode 4&6 is wrong, considering they are of a completely different tone than the prequels. Not everything should be like Empire Strikes back, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for that level of quality vs the mountain of mediocrity that are the prequel films. Trying to copy Empire Strikes Back blatantly would be super disappointing, which explains Attack of Clones.
 

Sajjaja

Member
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS.

I HATE YOU!!!!

YOU WERE MY BROTHER, ANAKIN. I LOVED YOU.
 
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS.

I HATE YOU!!!!

YOU WERE MY BROTHER, ANAKIN. I LOVED YOU.
Reminds me of the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where they make Lethal Weapon 6.

Mac keeps restating everything as obviously as possible because he can never keep up with what's happening in movies, haha.
 

DSN2K

Member
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS.

I HATE YOU!!!!

YOU WERE MY BROTHER, ANAKIN. I LOVED YOU.

there is nothing wrong with lines there imo, everything Kenobi says is pretty accurate assessment of the situation. Its Just poorly played out.
 
When I think of the prequels I start getting images of General Grievous and Vulture Fighter Droids and the clone army and Jango Fett and Battle Droids and Venator Star Destroyers it all seems so cool.

Then I watch them and I remember why they let me down. Should have had Lucas turning in his final draft for another writer to revise and then another person to direct.

Gotta give credit to the artists of those movies though.

I bought this bad boy yesterday, hype levels are reaching all time max.

XWing.jpg

I remember owning that. Wish I still did. I don't think I ever got rid of it on purpose, it just sort of got lost over the years. I liked it a lot.
 

Sajjaja

Member
there is nothing wrong with lines there imo, everything Kenobi says is pretty accurate assessment of the situation. Its Just poorly played out.

Yeah you're right. How about this.


LOVE WON'T SAVE YOU, PADME. ONLY MY NEW POWERS CAN DO THAT!
 

Jaeger

Member
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS.

I HATE YOU!!!!

YOU WERE MY BROTHER, ANAKIN. I LOVED YOU.

I love this line. Ewen nailed it. Sucks that there are some low points to that battle that bring it down.

I fear this discussion is a brick wall.

The problem is, you seem to think there is some exclusivity between being more actiony in the swordplay, and showing more powerful techniques ala all the material post OT, and the slower paced battles that show very little Force abilities in the OT. We can have both.

And yea, I feel you on the brick wall thing.

You are completely missing my point in a way that only those raised on the prequel's philosophy of "let me tell you instead of showing you" could miss.

I don't know where our argument is going. You agreed you jumped the gun on the lightsaber dictating the entirety of the battles we will see in TFA, which I stated. I don't know where we are going anymore.
 

Real Hero

Member
The You were my brother line just made me ask 'really??' They hated each other through most of the movies.
Oh and day 1 it is star wars
 
This edited Game of Thrones clip more or less represents the ideal level of intensity I'd like to see from an Episode VII duel:

(GoT Season 4 spoilers)

http://youtu.be/73V1eBm0fgY

Each blow feels brutal and heavy as fuck, the actors look tired and there are natural pauses in the action. The lightsabers actually look like deadly objects again because they're rotoscoped swords.

I feel the new school of Star Wars fight choreographers - whether it's for the prequels, game cutscenes or random YouTube videos - try far too hard to make the Jedi appear as superhuman as possible with all the flips, cool poses and last minute dodges- presumably to underscore how physically superior they are to the average joe. What they fail to account for is that being a competent/trained swordfighting human already puts you on a higher plane of physical prowess than the average joe. You or I sure as shit couldn't wield a sword like Brienne or the Hound in that clip. Surely that's enough?
 
This edited Game of Thrones clip more or less represents the ideal level of intensity I'd like to see from an Episode VII duel:

(GoT Season 4 spoilers)

http://youtu.be/73V1eBm0fgY

Each blow feels brutal and heavy as fuck, the actors look tired and there are natural pauses in the action. The lightsabers actually look like deadly objects again because they're rotoscoped swords.

I feel the new school of Star Wars fight choreographers - whether it's for the prequels, game cutscenes or random YouTube videos - try far too hard to make the Jedi appear as superhuman as possible with all the flips, cool poses and last minute dodges- presumably to underscore how physically superior they are to the average joe. What they fail to account for is that being a competent/trained swordfighting human already puts you on a higher plane of physical prowess than the average joe. You or I sure as shit couldn't wield a sword like Brienne or the Hound in that clip. Surely that's enough?
Well 1) the quick cuts in that video are nauseating
2) Lightsabers are much, much lighter in weight than swords (at least, I assume?)
 

Nekofrog

Banned
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS.

I HATE YOU!!!!

YOU WERE MY BROTHER, ANAKIN. I LOVED YOU.

the hilarious thing about that last line is it's yet more telling instead of showing

ok, you loved him and he was your brother. but why did we never see this. all we saw was pathetic banter back and forth and stupid bickering. when it came time to see the relationship that obi wan is screaming about, all we get are 3 second throwaway lines telling us how broski they were

"remember when i saved ur life"
"i saved ur life first"
"o ya"

audience: WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN WHY DID WE NOT SEE IT
 
Well 1) the quick cuts in that video are nauseating
2) Lightsabers are much, much lighter in weight than swords (at least, I assume?)

I don't speak for the editing style of the GoT show, I'm referring to how intense the swordsmanship is while still looking humanly possible.

And lightsabers were originally conceived as heavy objects:

When Lucas thought of lightsabers, he intended them to be more a symbol of honor than a weapon. Not only that, but he didn't want lightsabers to be an offensive weapon, but a defensive one instead.

Mark Hamill, who played Luke Skywalker also reveals that the original concept from Lucas stated lightsabers were "really really heavy," which is why you mostly see Luke and Vader wielding a lightsaber two hands in the original trilogy — an oriental sword fighting stance.

"They were very powerful and had a lot of energy in them," says Lucas. "And so, you know, you worked with them as if they were heavy. Because when they crashed together, they'd make these big explosions."

Single-handed lightsaber fights were only added later to highlight training proficiency and allow for faster combat scenes.

"Originally, it was that you needed two hands to hold onto this lightsaber because of the amount of energy that is being swung around," says Lucas.

http://www.dvice.com/2014-4-4/how-george-lucas-birthed-lightsaber-star-wars
 
3-way in TPM is cool and does what I mentioned in the first paragraph, but it's not telling story. No way. They just fight and fight and fight through a hallway, through a big bluesy hangar room (which in no way reflects character state of mind as it does in ESB), through some shields and then in a small room (???) at the same pace, same energy, same attack/defense. When Qui-Gon gets done, for a second it looks as though Obi-Wan has upped his game, and he sorta has, but it's not as though he's really anymore on the offensive than he was before - it's just a touch faster.

The other problem here is there is really no character interaction in this fight. All of the OT fights were literal character confrontations that fulfilled dramatic expectations, with important plot advancement hanging in the balance, because of the characters involved.

TPM fight has no story in itself, and it does nothing to advance or illuminate the larger story, nothing is revealed or resolved about the Battle of Naboo or Anakin's future fate. Nothing. It's like a completely superfluous light show with no content.

There's not even any banter. When Ra's Al Ghul and Toad are separated by force field, they had the perfect opportunity. "Let go of your anger, my friend, why are you so angry?" Toad could reply by taunting that he was going to kidnap Anakin, to which Ra's could reply "I will find you." Joking aside, there was the perfect break in the fight for the characters to do or say something that would relate to the larger story.

And then Qui-Gon is killed, which is called "Qui-Gon's Noble End" in the soundtrack, but what was noble or dramatic about it? Maul defeats him fairly, there wasn't even any Sith dirty trick like Lord Helmet stealing Lone Star's ring. Nothing there to really get the audience to hate Maul or to justify Obi-Wan's aggressive attack, which is not something you should expect from a Jedi. It seems like giving in to anger, like Luke in the Emperor's throne room.
 
The other problem here is there is really no character interaction in this fight. All of the OT fights were literal character confrontations that fulfilled dramatic expectations, with important plot advancement hanging in the balance, because of the characters involved.

TPM fight has no story in itself, and it does nothing to advance or illuminate the larger story, nothing is revealed or resolved about the Battle of Naboo or Anakin's future fate. Nothing. It's like a completely superfluous light show with no content.

There's not even any banter. When Ra's Al Ghul and Toad are separated by force field, they had the perfect opportunity. "Let go of your anger, my friend, why are you so angry?" Toad could reply by taunting that he was going to kidnap Anakin, to which Ra's could reply "I will find you." Joking aside, there was the perfect break in the fight for the characters to do or say something that would relate to the larger story.

And then Qui-Gon is killed, which is called "Qui-Gon's Noble End" in the soundtrack, but what was noble or dramatic about it? Maul defeats him fairly, there wasn't even any Sith dirty trick like Lord Helmet stealing Lone Star's ring. Nothing there to really get the audience to hate Maul or to justify Obi-Wan's aggressive attack, which is not something you should expect from a Jedi. It seems like giving in to anger, like Luke in the Emperor's throne room.

I question why Darth Maul needed to be in the story at all given that he adds next to nothing to the narrative other than the vaguest "the Sith may have resurfaced" plotline that could have been solved without 30 minutes of lightsaber fighting.

Then I remember:

 
This edited Game of Thrones clip more or less represents the ideal level of intensity I'd like to see from an Episode VII duel:

(GoT Season 4 spoilers)

http://youtu.be/73V1eBm0fgY

Each blow feels brutal and heavy as fuck,
Blegh that shit relies too much on shaky cam and quick cut's, and no it doesn't feel heavy. If you want a fight to feel heavy they need to use a two hand grip.

The sequence of Obi-wan v. Maul right after qui-gon is killed the tempo i'd like to see.
 

Trike

Member
Blegh that shit relies too much on shaky cam and quick cut's, and no it doesn't feel heavy. If you want a fight to feel heavy they need to use a two hand grip.

The sequence of Obi-wan v. Maul right after qui-gon is killed the tempo i'd like to see.

so the same as every other lightsaber fight in the prequel trilogy?
 
You are completely missing my point in a way that only those raised on the prequel's philosophy of "let me tell you instead of showing you" could miss.



Dumping in the prequels with Episode 4&6 is wrong, considering they are of a completely different tone than the prequels. Not everything should be like Empire Strikes back, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for that level of quality vs the mountain of mediocrity that are the prequel films. Trying to copy Empire Strikes Back blatantly would be super disappointing, which explains Attack of Clones.

I agree that everything shouldn't be like Empire. I think that's what some people are expecting though. Maybe they will get something like that. I certainly hope the characters are relatable instead of cartoon characters in live action (which is kind of what the prequels are).

I'm over prequel hate though. Everyone gets that they are not as good as the OT.
I find a lot to like about them regardless. I laugh at the stupid stuff and carry on with the spaceships, aliens, lasers and lightsabers.

Edit: Disney/LFL Filed trademarks for all the names they released along with one more that we haven't heard yet.

http://www.starwars7news.com/2014/1...he-force-awakens-revealed-captain-phasma.html

Captain Phasma

Dead serious. Commence hate train.
i like it
 
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