Jimmyfenix
Member
who is insulting uncle jeff
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Bloodborne: PVP Details, New Screenshots, HDD Size
- Thread starter tcrunch
- Start date
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Yeah right, the first time they used the words 'accessible' or anything along the lines of 'making it easier to pick up' when Bloodborne was first announced it's those legitimate fans that revolt. Even the tiniest of hints of of the word 'easy' would be met with resistance.
Bandai Namco's marketing is a response to those people, we created this beast it's hardly fair to blame it all on them now.
Jimmyfenix
Member
I am not going to lie the Song in the last DS2 trailer before release was pretty hype
To be fair to DS2, DS1's marketing slogan was "prepare to die", and DS2 devs only started screaming about how hard the game is after fans were freaking out about them dumping down the difficulty because some producer/directer talked about accessibility.
Pretty much this, and the exact same thing happened with Bloodborne too.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
3 weeks and it will be mine, doing a firewall certification exam on the morning of the 27th which I'm studying intensely for, then off to pick this up, in to work for a half day and then play ALL weekend!
Have you played any of the other Souls games? I will explain multiplayer from the perspective of Dark Souls II first:
In Dark Souls II there are 4 colors of phantoms (technically six, but I'm ignoring Abyssers because they only appear in the Abyss, and sunbros because they are identical to white): white, red, gray, and blue. The latter three are PVP-oriented, while whites are helpers.
WHITE phantoms are co-op buddies. They cannot harm you directly, and they can kill enemies in your world. You summon them from a summon sign they leave on the ground, it has a picture of them when you stand on it but otherwise you don't really know much about them.
RED phantoms are invaders. They use an item to invade your world, they cannot kill enemies in your world and those enemies will not aggro them by default. Reds are here to kill you and steal your humanity. You can also fight reds in an arena as part of a covenant (an organization you join in the game), or summon them from a red summon sign to duel. When the red phantom kills you, they earn some rewards, but also accumulate a point of sin. The sin of reds connects them to blue phantoms, see below.
GRAY phantoms have one of a few purposes depending on the covenant they belong to. Probably the most important one to mention here is that grays are dedicated duelists if they belong to the dragon covenant. You summon a gray dragon through a summon sign, and neither of you can heal during the fight outside of using magic. Gray duels are strict 1v1, vs. summoning from red phantom signs which can get you up to three reds (and the host can still heal unless they patched that since I last played).
BLUE phantoms are hunters of reds. They can invade the world of sinners, or (through some complex covenant associations) be summoned to a world that has been invaded to kill the invading red.
Why have all these phantoms? In Souls games, online play is woven into the lore. There is no multiplayer "mode", multiplayer is a part of the game's living world. A character from Dark Souls explains: "We are amidst strange beings, in a strange land. The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure. There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact." This is the basic tenet that prescribes all multiplayer in souls: the phantoms you meet are strangers, they are only with you for a short time, and they have any number of purposes to visit you. From the character's perspective they may not even realize they are phantoms and not a living, breathing part of your world.
In Dark Souls II there is a ring that counters the notion of it all being about chance meetings of strangers by allowing you to choose a god to worship, and then you only meet people who worship the same god (aka your IRL friends). Bloodborne continues that trend with a "Watchword". This is the games' concession to "I want a typical convenient multiplayer experience" type demands.
Here is what we know about how Bloodborne changes this formula:
-There are no more summon signs, no more previewing a bunch of people's armor and then choosing your favorite. You simply request help (ring the Lulling Bell) and your world is made more permeable to other players. In the network test alpha you did not even get a "You summoned ZZTopBob" welcome message, the person just appears (there is a glowing effect and a sound if you are close enough). Your helper is not a phantom, as the soul arts don't seem to be part of Bloodborne's world for reasons.
-Requesting help may also manifest a Bell Maiden in your world. The maiden begins to lure invaders with her own bell. If invaders also have no welcome message, you may not know if people joining your world are helpers or invaders. But invaders can appear anywhere in your game world as you are playing, it's still not a mode or an arena. Invaders are part of the entire game. They also aren't phantoms in Bloodborne, though from one of the screenshots it looks like they may be drenched in blood (or perhaps the more they kill the more blood coats them), so you may be able to tell them apart if it's not too dark.
-By using their invasion item, invaders may also induce the Bell Maiden to appear in their own homeworld, thus opening themselves up to a greater chance of invasion. We don't quite know things yet like if invading multiple times will increase your own odds of invasion even more, but there is no sign yet that "blue phantoms" are making a return, thus this may be an alternate counterbalance.
-So taking any action to other players aside from offering help (Small Resonant Bell) is apt to increase your chance of invasion. We don't know if the Bell Maiden is the -only- way you can be invaded.
-The Bell Maiden is already present in some areas even if you do not request help or invade.
-In DSII the god ring you use to summon IRL friends applies to both co-op signs and red signs. In Bloodborne it applies only to co-op.
-We don't know the lore reasons for this system (ex. why invaders invade) yet.
-We don't know how many invaders you can have at once (you can definitely have 2 helpers), or if there will be a way to lure them in aside from leaving the Bell Maiden alive (ex. a red/gray sign equivalent). Typically the only way to have 2+ invaders at once in the Souls games is either: summoning them from signs + 1 forcibly invading OR being invaded by a blue phantom for sinning & being invaded by a red phantom at the same time. Blues and reds hate each other because blues can't admit that reds are just better in every way, so they may fight each other and then you can mop up the leftovers. You probably won't have multiple invading hunters on you at once so most invasions should be 1v1.
-We don't know what form covenants will take, or if there will be arenas.
Pardon this exhaustive overview, particularly if you already played Souls and I am completely off base.
Melchiah
Member
WTH? So, the invaders can retreat by using the Parting Shot if the fight doesn't go their way, but the host can't do the same?
It's really a shame, that PVE and PVP are locked together for those who never play PVP. Hell, even Destiny gave me the option to avoid the competitive side. Oh well, I guess I'll just play offline then.
Well, invaders have always had black crystal in the previous games to disappear. It's mainly to leave if you can't find the host. It takes too long to use in-combat, you will get backstabbed.
Its no fun to search for an oponnent that hides somewhere and having to wait until the invade timer runs out to go back home. and if the fight doesnt go the invaders way he probably wont be able to use an item to reatreat because it most likely wont be instant
Melchiah
Member
Ah, I didn't know it worked that way. Nevertheless, I don't like the idea that if you want to play co-op, you have to opt for being invaded and play PVP as well.
Well that's just how it's been for the last 3 games and I doubt they'll change the formula now.
It had an alpha and this is what you are looking for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC3w3moXwAQ
Everything is touched upon here,including that it feels more like the first dark souls than the second one in terms of movement and tightness.
ERMint13
Member
Thanks for this it explained alot. Now for a dumb question.
When the invader gets a point of sin do you lose one? Do I gather points by just playing the game and someone can steal them? Just wondering if I have to worry about getting invaded and losing progress. I have a feeling alot of players will be new to this and it's going to be a nightmare for some of us. I really don't want to play offline as that seems to defeat the purpose.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Well we don't know if sin exists in Bloodborne. But basically if you were playing Dark Souls II and you killed a NPC, you would get a point of sin. If you invaded someone and killed them, a point of sin. Your sin can go down if you are killed by an invading blue phantom, but not from a regular invasion. Generally speaking you don't actually want to gather sin in the Souls series.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
If it works like it sounds like it would (you're particularly vulnerable to invasions when you play coop), I agree, not a fan of it.
BrokenIcarus
Member
Could you read messages though? Or were they locked behind paywall? :/
It's been this way for all three Souls games though IIRC, it's a pretty good model if you ask me.
The games have always been about risk/reward and this just plays into that naturally.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Nope, nothing. Like an offline playthrough. Just messages from the devs are there, not from the players.
Can't wait to hunt people. Hopefully the game will have a good population and good environment design for this.
The more blue invaders the merrier. There was always the option of reducing sin with souls anyway.
The more blue invaders the merrier. There was always the option of reducing sin with souls anyway.
SteamyPunk
Member
In previous games, losing to an invader is the same as dying to the enemies in the game. You don't lose anything extra. However, you get a big award if you win.
Also, about using Parting Shot as an invader... In the previous games you sometimes feel sorry for the person you invade. This is when you can drop them a helpful item and cooly leave their world. ^^
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Thanks for the info, I haven't played souls enough to understand how it works.
Pound_lb003
Member
Awesome exhaustive list of 'everything we know'. But that stuff based on the Alpha, could really be pretty limited and or entirely, unfinished. No?
So I dunno, there's lot's of, things, specifically cosmetic, that may change before release.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
"You can click someone's Messenger notes to tongue but hole"
Wut.
Made this post as soon as I read that.
Wut.
Made this post as soon as I read that.
drotahorror
Member
Why are you afraid of being killed online though? It's just part of the game and makes it more intense and interesting imo.
Also, does anyone know if you can summon a friend to fight against?
Alright that's exactly what I thought. I don't know the sales figures for DkS 1 or 2, but it just seemed like a lot of people did'nt know paying for the multiplayer worked.
Red Liquorice
Member
You'll rent some games, you don't "get them".You'll also get some games each month, it isn't that bad
Baldwin_the_First
Member
yeah for the whole duration of your subscription.You are still getting free games, you are not buying nor renting, you are simply being given free games every month for the rest of your subscription and as long as you have one, you'll be able to play them Whats wrong with that?
drotahorror
Member
Arguing over semantics is dumb when it comes to PS+. Everyone should know the deal when it comes to the free (yea I said free) games you get (yep I said get) every month.
Pound_lb003
Member
I see being pedantic if he said, 'you own some games'.
But... You DO get the games. Whether they're rented or purchased is kind of irrelevant.
Probably a stupid question:
I played through demons souls and dark souls (never played ds2), and did a small amount of invading / getting invaded - i recall being mostly successful but with bloodborne im hoping to do quite a bit of it
I guess my general question is - in the souls series, is the lock-on targeting used by the more proficient pvp'ers? are there any general rules or tips that the better pvp'ers seemed to exercise - in terms of the moment to moment combat? (I also know that it may be different with bloodborne but was hoping for a small understanding of the foundation of previous souls titles)
Just wondering, I guess i'm semi concerned that its doesnt just all come down to build and item selection, i remember hearing stories of everyone using "such an such ring" and "such and such enchantment" on "such and such sword", for example.
Hope that mess of a post makes sense, thanks in advance
I played through demons souls and dark souls (never played ds2), and did a small amount of invading / getting invaded - i recall being mostly successful but with bloodborne im hoping to do quite a bit of it
I guess my general question is - in the souls series, is the lock-on targeting used by the more proficient pvp'ers? are there any general rules or tips that the better pvp'ers seemed to exercise - in terms of the moment to moment combat? (I also know that it may be different with bloodborne but was hoping for a small understanding of the foundation of previous souls titles)
Just wondering, I guess i'm semi concerned that its doesnt just all come down to build and item selection, i remember hearing stories of everyone using "such an such ring" and "such and such enchantment" on "such and such sword", for example.
Hope that mess of a post makes sense, thanks in advance
SteamyPunk
Member
Generally, the better you are the less lock-on you use. Or you only use lock-on when it's advantageous to do so.
DealWithIt
Member
I played it (the invite-only alpha). Found it to be very fun. I'm really excited for launch. It seems like they have even made a lot of improvement from alpha. personally, I could not be much more hyped.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Since the alpha was so locked down i don't think we would notice any changes. Probably performance stuff
Also Day/night cycle.
If you liked past souls game you will like this one. Might not be that inviting to new comers but we will see!
DealWithIt
Member
IQ and FR improvements. Some small UI tweaks.
The thing that I am most excited for is that they have added a ton of content, the ability to pick up items, lanterns as checkpoints. You'll now be able to access the inventory system.
The alpha was just one slice of the game, a checkpoint to a boss with a couple openable shortcuts. I'm excited to experience whole levels.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
In general invasions, you have to be proficient with both locked and unlocked fighting. Locked is good for when you need to score multiple hits in a row, or for when you want to maintain a certain controlled distance from opponents at all times.
Unlocked is used when the opponent becomes dodge-happy and starts evading your locked hits. You trick your opponent into dodging, then go unlocked and attack the point that you expect their dodge to end (which requires some knowledge of invincibility frames). Unlocked was especially useful in DkS1, where you could begin a slow attack animation, baiting your opponent into attempting a backstab, then pivot at the last moment and punish them for getting close.
As for builds, there will always be top-tier weapons and gear, but an expert with nothing but a shortsword can still beat the hell out of a geared-up Giantdad newbie.
But really, just ignore all of that and invade as often as you can. You really can't appreciate the nuances without practice, and most of it will come naturally over time.
DoubleTake
Member
In my experience locking on is okay 80% of the time. Its knowing that 20% of the time thats difficult. These moments included times when youve missed an attack and the opponent dodges to your left or right. Its best to unlock and manually aim your next attack to catch them off guard.
Pretty much just know youre weapons movesets and understand when you can bait people into rolling backward R1/R2s.
Also you have to get used to the online lag. If its anything like the other Souls games youll have to parry(now countershot) a bit earlier than youre used to in PVE. If you can get the online latency down then youre pretty much golden.
Guys, its his own apparently inside, joke...He says he is 83/93 as joke himself...he is easily one of the funniest personalities on the "information superhighway" because he jokes about himself like this almost every episode. Plus I'm allowed to joke about age as I'm a veteran gamer myself (albeit much better looking and a better Souls player than Uncle Jeff
) I outright challenge Jeff to beat my record of doing a speed run of all the souls games concurrent without changing the depends undergarments once.
Melchiah
Member
Because I never play PVP, I just don't find it enjoyable, and the idea of being invaded by veterans doesn't really sound enjoyable either.
It's annoying to be forced to play offline, and miss out on the co-op and notes. Speaking of which, is there such an option in the game settings, like in Dead Island for example, or do I have to unplug the cable?
DoubleTake
Member
What about the chance that you arent invaded by a "vet" and instead someone at the same level as you? That happened to me in my first playthrough of Ds1 and the rush was intense during and after I beat them(I was invaded and wrecked by vets as well too). The experience just made me all the more interested in pvp.
Anyway if you dont want to be invaded you have to find an NPC in the level called the Bell Maiden and kill her. She spawns when you attempt to summon someone for Co-op though she will already be spawned in certain areas. Thats basically your toggle option in BB.
Melchiah
Member
Like I said, I just don't find it enjoyable. I've tried FPS (UT99-04, RFOM, Destiny's PVP), racing (WipEout HD), and action (GOW:A), and it just isn't my cup of tea. I rather play against the NPCs, by myself or with others by my side. The only multiplayer games I've enjoyed are co-op MPs like ME3 and Destiny, where you work as a team. The idea of other players interrupting my progress also rubs me the wrong way.
So, I kill her and then the invading is off but co-op remains, and if she spawns before the location the invading is possible before you kill her?
Whenever you launch a Souls game it will try to connect to the servers so just cancel out of that, and it will start in offline mode. Should be the same with Bloodborne.