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Verge: New Hololens impressions "demo videos are all basically a lie"
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
Pathfinder
Member
Yup.
BleedOrange
Banned
Agreed. When they supply the data to the camera that allows the audience to see the holographic representation of the space it doesn't have to contend with bouncing light into eyeballs, and as such they can display the full area of the screen with the graphical data.
The actual kits don't work like that. This is where Microsoft needs to start setting expectations for v1.0, or, as others have pointed out, they run the risk of poisoning the well.
There is room for improvement as with every v1.0 product. But, I think what they've accomplished so for is incredible.
BleedOrange
Banned
I guess you missed the part where pretty much everyone who has tried it calls it a revolutionary jump forward for AR. There's just room for improvement much like every v1.0 product, and its Microsoft's job to set expectations accordingly.
Red Mage
Member
It's basically the equivalent of this:
I love how the character's arm moves before the guy's.
Like fuck it does. You should actually try reading the thread before posting. They can't do occlusion when a real peron is in front of a virtual window or item. That totally breaks the illusion and its no wonder they didn't show it in first person in the video. MS are showing it to the press in controlled conditions.
You need to be more subtle if you ever want people to take you seriously, because what you wrote makes no sense.
SHOCKING. MS should have stuck to doing their demos from the perspective of the user instead of that projected 3rd person camera nonsense. It will certainly mislead the audience in terms of what FoV is actually feasible. As much as the the title is click bait, the criticism is warranted.
Paul Thurrotts blog or Windows Central said something about keeping the FOV low to reduce motion sickness.
http://www.windowscentral.com/i-tried-near-finalized-version-hololens
"The lack of holograms in your peripheral vision is just an odd experience. Some of told me it is similar to wearing transition bi-focal lenses, which also have a similar, limiting effect. In fairness to Microsoft, this is likely just a limitation of the technology and size constraints of the lenses used in the device. Paul Thurrott had heard but was unable to confirm that the hologram field-of-view was purposefully kept smaller to reduce motion sickness (something common with VR headsets like Oculus)."
http://www.windowscentral.com/i-tried-near-finalized-version-hololens
"The lack of holograms in your peripheral vision is just an odd experience. Some of told me it is similar to wearing transition bi-focal lenses, which also have a similar, limiting effect. In fairness to Microsoft, this is likely just a limitation of the technology and size constraints of the lenses used in the device. Paul Thurrott had heard but was unable to confirm that the hologram field-of-view was purposefully kept smaller to reduce motion sickness (something common with VR headsets like Oculus)."
GreyOcelot
Member
anyone who would say this doesn't read the verge very much
BleedOrange
Banned
They could do some really, really cool things with Tabletop Gaming.
scoobidoo112
Member
It's basically the equivalent of this:
Shit like this should be illegal. Blatant false advertising.
hololens does not have eye tracking right now AFAIK though there is a patent. It's based on head movement for cursor movement. It would also be strange if clicking was using your finger for all gestures except moving a window. It wouldn't make sense. I guess it is debatable until the press ask though. He makes a gesture as if the window is following his hand, why would he do that then? As if he is dragging it but does so late. Waiting for the clapping to stop made him miss his cue. He then hastily moved his hand and dragged it. At that point it clearly looked like he was confused where the actual screen was meant to be too, looking at a blank wall because he had forgot he's meant to perform the move gesture for it to be up there. These things are heavily choreographed and not actual tech demos so take it with a huge pinch of salt. They're more concepts at this stage much like project natals early "demos".
Poodlestrike
Banned
Games Workshop just pissed their pants a little.
I'm curious what the max/optimal FOV could be before turning into the dreaded "helmet" that some people don't like about VR. That's why I can understand the misgivings in the video. Of course future iterations could have better FOV, but where is the limit on it to where it becomes too much trouble for the benefit? Then if the sweet spot is found, will the FOV be good enough to justify its use?
I don't think I agree with that, considering all VR headsets are trying to push for higher and higher FOVs, sounds like spin.
makingmusic476
Member
Lol considering:
Nadella said:
What gesture and at what point was it locked to head tracking? He said follow me, it followed. It however did not track his head movements, only him. He was moving his head left and right throughout until it snapped for him to place it with no interaction. We know it works, I know it works, but not as shown. Not with that accuracy in markerless tracking, and not with that FOV. I know kinect works too but not as shown in those early demos. It's not a red herring because that's the entire debate.
...that doesn't sound right.
Every single VR headset is pushing for a wider FOV. From my experience with the DK2, it's the exact opposite: The limitations on the FOV induce some motion sickness, rather than the opposite.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
This made me laugh more than it should have.
SteveWinwood
Member
this is the most no shit moment I've had in a while
Listening to these 3 devs talk about their experience with it is very encouraging. They even said enthusiastically that it still felt immersive despite the limited FOV.
Every single impression has mentioned the limited FOV. MS demoed it the exact same way back in January. I don't understand why this is all of a sudden a hot button issue.
Every single impression has mentioned the limited FOV. MS demoed it the exact same way back in January. I don't understand why this is all of a sudden a hot button issue.
slavesnyder
Member
If they are clever they are already talking with spencer...
I think if they could achieve a FOV similar to wearing glasses it would be fine. At this point my guess is it's difficult to achieve from a performance/battery life perspective.
1. I hadn't heard of this before (to my recollection)
2. No one actually produced a visual representation of what it might look like
Because a clickbait title is used.
This is just a tech demo, and the on-stage demo is taken by a camera far away from the man. I just can't see where this is close to a "lie".
Wait a second. So, I am no Microsoft apologist by any stretch of the imagination. But what The Verge article is describing is a more limited FOV for the current implementation, in an extremely early form, than being an entire lie. They have some positional based selection in the form of taps vs. entire gestures. And this is for press demos, not what they have working in the lab. How quickly did we forget the Wired article with hands on impressions in their lab: http://www.wired.com/2015/01/microsoft-hands-on/
So, the title of OP is not just inaccurate, but needlessly negative. As others have stated here, why don't we wait until we get a bit out of the prototype phase before people crap all over this?
So, the title of OP is not just inaccurate, but needlessly negative. As others have stated here, why don't we wait until we get a bit out of the prototype phase before people crap all over this?
Did the verge article and video have different titles before? They seem fine to me.
Microsoft's HoloLens is new, improved, and still has big problems
HoloLens can deliver amazing illusions, but only on a small scale
Microsoft’s new and (sort of) improved HoloLens
The Verge's titles are fine, Poodlestrike was talking about the OP's title (I think).
BIGWORM
Member
batmanbegins.jpg
As mentioned on the previous page that wasn't an advertisement, it was part of a cirque Du Soleil show.
You should see the part when the kid climbs inside the screen!
As always, this sort of early hands-on are pointless. It's like early previews for games. I don't know if you've noticed but previews tend to be overall very positive, and on many occasions the game was trashed in reviews.
Another point is that they're being demoed the thing in extremely controlled conditions, and in both cases any sort of media recording is banned. I don't remember such secrecy for OR or Morpheus the first time the press got their hands on it.
Finally, many people tend to be easily hyped when they try a shiny new toy. Remember the first Wii or Kinect hands-on? It was futuristic shit that was going to allow you to have 1:1 light saber fights and stuff. Yeah...
And to reiterate, I find the whole "please check this custom camera view" thing a bit dodgy. I mean did you see that thing? It's packed with additional stuff that look a lot more bulky than what they'll ever be able to pack in their relatively small headset.
I guess I don't understand the idea of a clickbait thread titles, is the problem that people are discussing it? I think the FOV concerns warrant it, given how difficult it is to talk about these head mounted displays without actually trying one for yourself. I have to wonder if you showed anyone the "camera rig" demos that Microsoft has shown, would they have any expectation at all that the images would occupy a window in their field of vision?
DirtyLarry
Member
Just to put it in perspective as I see some people LOL'ing at comments saying MS needs to be more truthful.
I am the Manager Of Technology for a large Fortune 100 company.
When this was first announced, I got a call from one of the business partners I support that they saw this video and wanted to have it implemented in their curriculum by the end of the year.
So you see, while those of us in the know realize stuff like the video is proof of concept, other people not in the know see it and expect it to work exactly as shown.
I am the Manager Of Technology for a large Fortune 100 company.
When this was first announced, I got a call from one of the business partners I support that they saw this video and wanted to have it implemented in their curriculum by the end of the year.
So you see, while those of us in the know realize stuff like the video is proof of concept, other people not in the know see it and expect it to work exactly as shown.
advertising is working as intended
From various impressions it does seem like early days which is fine. If they can continue building on this and increase the field of view then it sounds like it'll solve most early impressions dominant problem.
Click bait titles lead to people who comment without reading or watching what's in the OP.
Click bait titles lead to people who comment without reading or watching what's in the OP.
makingmusic476
Member
Hahaha, I forgot about that whole song and dance.
The pictures of Itagaki all straight faced, etc.
I distinctly remember you mentioning something to the effect that the limited FOV of HoloLens would not be good for gaming back in January (because I agreed with you for once). Fair enough if you don't remember though.
Really? Do we need a visual representation when people are describing it's like looking through a monitor in front of your face. Did everyone crying shenanigans really not bother reading any of the dozens of impressions readily available?
Now that you mention it, I kind of remember, but I had fallen off the Hololens wagon. And I guess I didn't realize it would be this drastic. This comes to your second point as well, I guess sometimes you can't internalize something easily without having an illustration of what it looks like.
I see your point though.
sixteen-bit
Member
Milo'd
From what I see on the video and descriptions from people who've tried it out...this picture I made from looking at the device, it seems this is where the magic happens...(look at the other lens to see where I made the outline)
How about you read and look at what's being shown instead of jumping to conclusion and saying I haven't read.
dose said:
How about you read and look at what's being shown instead of jumping to conclusion and saying I haven't read.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
From what I see on the video and descriptions from people who've tried it out...this picture I made from looking at the device, it seems this is where the magic happens...(look at the other lens to see where I made the outline)
How about you read and look at what's being shown instead of jumping to conclusion and saying I haven't read.
So, would it be possible to create a curved glass lens and the micro projectors create a "curved" image to include your peripheral vision, left, right and up?
Or, does the device have to evolve until transparent displays are feasible at this size?
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Why you guys sound like this is going to release recently.
Calling bullshit on that one.
Covering peripheral vision is difficult that's why. Probably would require custom curved (spherical?) screens with the current physical design of the thing. More pixels to render, too.
dragonzdogma
Member
It's basically the equivalent of this:
wait what is that, where can I find this, I want to lol at this.