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[WanderingWind]

 

[Edmond Dantès]

We should probably do a Lord of the Rings read through akin to The Silmarillion one. It may garner more discussion due to its nature and popularity in comparison to The Silmarillion.

It would be nice to go through a primary text, rather than the scholarly material that dominates my Tolkien reading.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Also from my archives:

The Truth about Tom Bombadil

At last, the mystery of Tom Bombadil's identity has been solved.

Ready?

Tom Bombadil and the Witch-king of Angmar are the same person.

1. We never hear of Tom at all during the whole of the First Age. The Nine Rings aren't forged until the Second Age.

2. You never see the two of them together.

3. In the first part of Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul are sent to the Shire to look for the wandering Baggins. Interestingly, Tom says to Frodo at the dinner-table: "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder" (Fellowship p.137 hardback, emphasis mine: note the fear Tom has of his master, Sauron!).

4. In Tom's questioning of the Hobbits, JRRT notes that "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." (Fellowship p. 144) I think he was concerned that his double-life might have been noticed. Interestingly, Tom immediately changes the subject of conversation!
Furthermore, the One Ring had no effect on Tom - which seems consistent with Tolkien's observations about how the Nazgul would have handled the same priceless object (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #246): "They were... in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring."

5. It's also interesting to note that Tom could see Frodo clearly while Frodo was wearing the Ring (Fellowship p. 144 hardback) - just as the Witch-king could see Frodo clearly while he was wearing the Ring at Weathertop! (Fellowship p. 208 hardback)

6. Perhaps most damning, however, is the incident with the Barrow-wights (Fellowship pp. 151-155), where Tom - with nothing more than a few simple words (p. 154) - commands the Barrow-wight to leave. And it does, without argument. Why would the Wight be so completely under Tom's control? Because in his alternate guise as the Witch-king of Angmar, Tom ordered the Wight to inhabit the barrow in the first place! Turning to Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 321, "evil spirits out of Angmar... entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." Obviously the Witch-king was reponsible for sending the wights there; just as obviously, the Witch-king (disguised as Tom) would be capable of ordering them to leave!
(This is related to another passage, which has since been brought to my attention. On Fellowship page 158 hardback, Tom is guiding the Hobbits back towards the Road when he gazes towards the borders of Cardolan. "Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." Since Tom, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed the kingdom of Cardolan, it's little wonder that he wouldn't say much about his involvement. Perhaps his remembering "something sad" reveals some remorse at being the instrument of Cardolan's destruction...?)

...Yes: I think we have an airtight case here.

...It's worth noting that, after the Witch-king was dead, Gandalf said he was "going to have a long talk with Bombadil" (Return of the King, p. 275). Curiously, he never tells anyone about the meeting later... and he's right there at the Grey Havens at the end of the book, undelayed it seems by long conversation. I think we can therefore theorize that Gandalf made it to the Old Forest, but that Tom (once the so-called "Witch-king" had died) was nowhere to be found!

...Of course, all this brings up the curiosity of motive. What would make the Witch-King of Angmar sport such a double identity? I suppose that the Witch-king, once of proud Numenorean ancestry, felt trapped by the guise of evil which Sauron had tricked him into, and in the fullness of time forged this alternate identity for himself so that he could occasionally feel happy, helpful, noble, and more at one with himself and his lineage. The situation is perhaps analagous to a crossdresser who, feeling trapped in a man's body, would occasionally assume the identity of a woman. It therefore makes sense that the Witch-king's other identity would be so peculiarly enigmatic, and perhaps sheds light on JRRT's observation in Letters #144: "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."

...Who else would be aware of Tom's double-life, I wonder? Since Tom repeatedly claims to have been around "before the river and the trees", and indeed even claims to be older than the Ents (Fellowship p. 142), surely the eldest of the Elves would know he was lying. Elrond plays along with Tom in public, being kind enough not to reveal his secret, but also seems to know that Tom and the Witch-king are one and the same; hence his refusal to give the Ring to Tom for safekeeping (Fellowship p. 278-9): "Power to defy the Enemy is not in him."

Yes, very convincing. Ring a dong dillo.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

We should probably do a Lord of the Rings read through akin to The Silmarillion one. It may garner more discussion due to its nature and popularity in comparison to The Silmarillion.

It would be nice to go through a primary text, rather than the scholarly material that dominates my Tolkien reading.

Yes, please. About to hit Moria in Fellowship of the Ring and I can't wait to talk about the Balrog's wings/lack of wings

Also from my archives:

The Truth about Tom Bombadil


Yes, very convincing. Ring a dong dillo.

Have you been after the Gaffer's home brew again, dear Edmond?

 

[tryagainlater]

We should probably do a Lord of the Rings read through akin to The Silmarillion one. It may garner more discussion due to its nature and popularity in comparison to The Silmarillion.

It would be nice to go through a primary text, rather than the scholarly material that dominates my Tolkien reading.

I would very much be in favour of that since I've been looking for an excuse to re-read. It's a shame The Silmarillion one didn't go too far.

 

[Jigorath]

We should probably do a Lord of the Rings read through akin to The Silmarillion one. It may garner more discussion due to its nature and popularity in comparison to The Silmarillion.

It would be nice to go through a primary text, rather than the scholarly material that dominates my Tolkien reading.

Yeah that'd be great. I've been wanting to do a re-read for a while now but I keep putting it off.

 

[Loxley]

I agree an LOTR read-through would be nice. Especially with the spring/summer break hitting soon for many people. It would certainly be a much easier and linear experience than the Silmarillion, noble as our effort was.

Count me in

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Yes, please. About to hit Moria in Fellowship of the Ring and I can't wait to talk about the Balrog's wings/lack of wings



Have you been after the Gaffer's home brew again, dear Edmond?

It's certainly an outlandish theory.

I would very much be in favour of that since I've been looking for an excuse to re-read. It's a shame The Silmarillion one didn't go too far.

I'm surprised The Silmarillion thread got as far as it did; much of it was down to Loxley's fantastic efforts. The Lord of the Rings is a different beast though. People have a greater affinity to it.

Yeah that'd be great. I've been wanting to do a re-read for a while now but I keep putting it off.

Another joint collaboration with Loxley would be fitting, but I know he's quite busy in life right now, so I don't think a grand OP would be something we do. But something smaller and organised appropriately.

I agree an LOTR read-through would be nice. Especially with the spring/summer break hitting soon for many people. It would certainly be a much easier and linear experience than the Silmarillion, noble as our effort was.

Count me in

Well hello there. We should definitely do this then.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Something else on Tom on a more serious note:

A correspondence between Tolkien and Nevill Coghill regarding Tom, which Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull wanted to include in their new edition of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, but were not able to do so.

But Tom Bombadil is just as he is. Just an odd ‘fact’ of that world. He won’t be explained, because as long as you are (as in this tale you are meant to be) concentrated on the Ring, he is inexplicable. But he’s there – a reminder of the truth (as I see it) that the world is so large and manifold that if you take one facet and fix your mind and heart on it, there is always something that does not come in to that story/argument/approach, and seems to belong to a larger story. But of course in another way, not that of pure story-making, Bombadil is a deliberate contrast to the Elves who are artists. But B. does not want to make, alter, devise, or control anything: just to observe and take joy in the contemplating the things that are not himself. The spirit of the [deleted: world > this earth] made aware of itself. He is more like science (utterly free from technological blemish) and history than art. He represents the complete fearlessness of that spirit when we can catch a little of it. But I do suggest that it is possible to fear (as I do) that the making artistic sub-creative spirit (of Men and Elves) is actually more potent, and can ‘fall’, and that it could in the eventual triumph of its own evil destroy the whole earth, and Bombadil and all.

Fascinating and adds to what we already know about Tom from the published letters.

 

[Loxley]

It's certainly an outlandish theory.

I'm surprised The Silmarillion thread got as far as it did; much of it was down to Loxley's fantastic efforts. The Lord of the Rings is a different beast though. People have a greater affinity to it.

Another joint collaboration with Loxley would be fitting, but I know he's quite busy in life right now, so I don't think a grand OP would be something we do. But something smaller and organised appropriately.Well hello there. We should definitely do this then.

Thanks man

It's true that May is going to be a little bananas for me, but honestly once June hits things will be back to normal. I don't know if we want to wait a whole month to get things going, but I'll definitely get a banner image started at the very least.

 

[Turin]

Though it's almost definitely not true it is fun to imagine there's something eerie about Tom Bombadil.


Here's a theory about him that I enjoyed reading.....

http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

Old Tom Bombadil. Possibly the least liked character in The Lord of the Rings. A childish figure so disliked by fans of the book that few object to his absence from all adaptations of the story. And yet, there is another way of looking at Bombadil, based only on what appears in the book itself, that paints a very different picture of this figure of fun.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is fat and jolly and smiles all the time. He is friendly and gregarious and always ready to help travellers in distress.

Except that none of that can possibly be true.

Consider: By his own account (and by Elrond’s surprisingly sketchy knowledge) Bombadil has lived in the Old Forest since before the hobbits came to the Shire. Since before Elrond was born. Since the earliest days of the First Age.

And yet no hobbit has ever heard of him.

The guise in which Bombadil appears to Frodo and his companions is much like a hobbit writ large. He loves food and songs and nonsense rhymes and drink and company. Any hobbit who saw such a person would tell tales of him. Any hobbit who was rescued by Tom would sing songs about him and tell everyone else. Yet Merry – who knows all the history of Buckland and has ventured into the Old Forest many times – has never heard of Tom Bombadil. Frodo and Sam – avid readers of old Bilbo’s lore – have no idea that any such being exists, until he appears to them. All the hobbits of the Shire think of the Old Forest as a place of horror – not as the abode of a jolly fat man who is surprisingly generous with his food.

If Bombadil has indeed lived in the Old Forest all this time – in a house less than twenty miles from Buckland – then it stands to reason that he has never appeared to a single hobbit traveller before, and has certainly never rescued one from death. In the 1400 years since the Shire was settled.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is not what he seems.

Elrond, the greatest lore-master of the Third Age, has never heard of Tom Bombadil. Elrond is only vaguely aware that there was once someone called Iarwain Ben-Adar (“Oldest and Fatherless&#8221 who might be the same as Bombadil. And yet, the main road between Rivendell and the Grey Havens passes not 20 miles from Bombadil’s house, which stands beside the most ancient forest in Middle Earth. Has no elf ever wandered in the Old Forest or encountered Bombadil in all these thousands of years? Apparently not.

Gandalf seems to know more, but he keeps his knowledge to himself. At the Council of Elrond, when people suggest sending the Ring to Bombadil, Gandalf comes up with a surprisingly varied list of reasons why that should not be done. It is not clear that any of the reasons that he gives are the true one.

Now, in his conversation with Frodo, Bombadil implies (but avoids directly stating) that he had heard of their coming from Farmer Maggot and from Gildor’s elves (both of whom Frodo had recently described). But that also makes no sense. Maggot lives west of the Brandywine, remained there when Frodo left, and never even knew that Frodo would be leaving the Shire. And if Elrond knows nothing of Bombadil, how can he be a friend of Gildor’s?

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He lies.

A question: what is the most dangerous place in Middle Earth? First place goes to the Mines of Moria, home of the Balrog, but what is the second most dangerous place? Tom Bombadil’s country.
By comparison, Mordor is a safe and well-run land, where two lightly-armed hobbits can wander for days without meeting anything more dangerous than themselves. Yet the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs, all part of Tom’s country, are filled with perils that would tax anyone in the Fellowship except perhaps Gandalf.

Now, it is canonical in Tolkein that powerful magical beings imprint their nature on their homes. Lorien under Galadriel is a place of peace and light. Moria, after the Balrog awoke, was a place of terror to which lesser evil creatures were drawn. Likewise, when Sauron lived in Mirkwood, it became blighted with evil and a home to monsters.

And then, there’s Tom Bombadil’s Country.

The hobbits can sense the hatred within all the trees in the Old Forest. Every tree in that place is a malevolent huorn, hating humankind. Every single tree. And the barrows of the ancient kings that lie nearby are defiled and inhabited by Barrow-Wights. Bombadil has the power to control or banish all these creatures, but he does not do so. Instead, he provides a refuge for them against men and other powers. Evil things – and only evil things – flourish in his domain. “Tom Bombadil is the master” Goldberry says. And his subjects are black huorns and barrow wights.

What do we know about Tom Bombadil? He is not the benevolent figure that he pretends to be.

Tom appears to the Ringbearer in a friendly, happy guise, to question and test him and to give him and his companions swords that can kill the servants of another evil power. But his motives are his own.

Consider: it is said more than once that the willows are the most powerful and evil trees in the Forest. Yet, the rhyme that Bombadil teaches the hobbits to use in conjuring up Bombadil himself includes the line, “By the reed and willow.” The willows are a part of Bombadil’s power and a means of calling on him. They draw their strength from the cursed river Withywindle, the centre of all the evil in the Forest.

And the springs of the Withywindle are right next to Tom Bombadil’s house.

And then there is Goldberry, “the river-daughter”. She is presented as Bombadil’s wife, an improbably beautiful and regal being who charms and beguiles the hobbits. It is implied that she is a water spirit, and she sits combing her long, blonde hair after the manner of a mermaid. (And it is worth remembering that mermaids were originally seen as monsters, beautiful above the water, slimy and hideous below, luring sailors to drown and be eaten.) But I suggest the name means that in her true state, Goldberry is nourished by the River – that is, by the proverbially evil Withywindle.

In folklore and legend (as Tolkien would know well) there are many tales of creatures that can take on human form but whose human shape always contains a clue to their true nature. So what might Goldberry be? She is tall and slender - specifically she is “slender as a willow wand”. She wears a green dress, sits amidst bowls of river water and is surrounded by the curtain of her golden hair. I suggest that she is a Willow tree conjured into human form, a malevolent huorn like the Old Man Willow from whom the hobbits have just escaped. If she is not indeed the same tree.

So, if this is true, then why does Bombadil save and help the ringbearer and his companions? Because they can bring about the downfall of Sauron, the current Dark Lord of Middle Earth. When Sauron falls, the other rings will fail and the wizards and elves will leave Middle Earth and the only great power that is left will be Bombadil.

There is a boundary around Bombadil’s country that he cannot or will not pass, something that confines him to a narrow space. And in return, no wizard or elf comes into his country to see who rules it, or to disturb the evil creatures that gather under his protection.

When the hobbits return to the Shire after their journey to Mordor, Gandalf leaves them close to Bree and goes towards Bombadil’s country to have words with him. We do not know what they say. But Gandalf was sent to Middle Earth to contend against Sauron and now he must depart. He has been given no mission to confront Bombadil and he must soon leave Middle Earth to powerless men and hobbits, while Bombadil remains, waiting to fulfill his purpose.

Do I think that Tolkien planned things in this way? Not at all, but I find it an interesting speculation.

To speculate further and more wildly:

The spell that binds Bombadil to his narrow and cursed country was put in place centuries ago by the Valar to protect men and elves. It may last a few decades more, perhaps a few generations of hobbit lives. But when the last elf has gone from the havens and the last spells of rings and wizards unravel, then it will be gone. And Iarwain Ben-Adar, Oldest and Fatherless, who was ruler of the darkness in Middle Earth before Sauron was, before Morgoth set foot there, before the first rising of the sun, will come into his inheritance again. And one dark night the old trees will march westward into the Shire to feed their ancient hatred. And Bombadil will dance down amongst them, clad in his true shape at last, singing his incomprehensible rhymes as the trees mutter their curses and the black and terrible Barrow-Wights dance and gibber around him. And he will be smiling.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Thanks man

It's true that May is going to be a little bananas for me, but honestly once June hits things will be back to normal. I don't know if we want to wait a whole month to get things going, but I'll definitely get a banner image started at the very least.

For the benefit of META and others currently reading we can get the thread going as soon as you've completed the banner. I can come up with a reading schedule and potential talking points and we're set.

Though it's almost definitely not true it is fun to imagine there's something eerie about Tom Bombadil.


Here's a theory about him that I enjoyed reading.....

http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

I do enjoy all the Tom is evil theories.

 

[Loxley]

Do we want this to be a complete Lord of the Rings read-through or do we want to start with Fellowship and see how things go from there?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Do we want this to be a complete Lord of the Rings read-through or do we want to start with Fellowship and see how things go from there?

I think one 'book' at a time is the way to go. It'll give us a chance to gauge the reaction to the read through and allow people to read other books in the breaks in between.


So Fellowship - break - TTT - break - ROTK

 

[Loxley]

I think one 'book' at a time is the way to go. It'll give us a chance to gauge the reaction to the read through and allow people to read other books in the breaks in between.


So Fellowship - break - TTT - break - ROTK

Okay cool, that was my thinking as well

I'll get started on the banner ASAP.

 

[Vashetti]

In for the LOTR read-through.

Perhaps we could contrast with the appropriate sections from the movie and and go all in on analysis.

 

[Loxley]

In for the LOTR read-through.

Perhaps we could contrast with the appropriate sections from the movie and and go all in on analysis.

I think it would make total sense to bring the film(s) into the discussion as we progress. Particularly Howard Shore's work. But we can also discuss the Bakshi animated film as well - it's all fair game.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Discussion of artwork would be appropriate as well.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

This will be a perfect time frame too. Valar-willing, if I can pass this stupidly hard exam coming up, I'll have so much more free time to participate.

 

[Fathead]

Im in

 

[bengraven]

You have my sword.

Yes, Tolkien's dragons are rather interesting in their origins and their actions during the three chronicled ages of Arda.

I only wish we could have had more Glaurung in the Silm. I never thought Smaug could be topped until I read Hurin. I love the idea of the dragon as Satan symbol as it was originally intended but is rarely if ever done these days.

I've been adamant on ever putting dragons in my own fantasy novel I've been writing...maybe I should look at Glaurung as how they can be done right and unique compared to the majestic beasts or god-like things they are usually in books these days.

Also from my archives:

The Truth about Tom Bombadil


Yes, very convincing. Ring a dong dillo.

I wonder if Tolkien knew the truth of Tom or if he purposely left him vague even in his own mind. He seems to "know" what Tom represents, but not what Tom "is" and revels in it. But maybe he does know what Tom is and revels in keeping it a mystery.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

I wonder if Tolkien knew the truth of Tom or if he purposely left him vague even in his own mind. He seems to "know" what Tom represents, but not what Tom "is" and revels in it. But maybe he does know what Tom is and revels in keeping it a mystery.

Can't we just chalk it up to Tolkien not knowing the character of Tom would blow up and just wrote him as a goofy, tertiary character with no ulterior motives?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

You have my sword.



I only wish we could have had more Glaurung in the Silm. I never thought Smaug could be topped until I read Hurin. I love the idea of the dragon as Satan symbol as it was originally intended but is rarely if ever done these days.

I've been adamant on ever putting dragons in my own fantasy novel I've been writing...maybe I should look at Glaurung as how they can be done right and unique compared to the majestic beasts or god-like things they are usually in books these days.



I wonder if Tolkien knew the truth of Tom or if he purposely left him vague even in his own mind. He seems to "know" what Tom represents, but not what Tom "is" and revels in it. But maybe he does know what Tom is and revels in keeping it a mystery.

Can't we just chalk it up to Tolkien not knowing the character of Tom would blow up and just wrote him as a goofy, tertiary character with no ulterior motives?

Like Tolkien and the Balrog/wings (and his drafting of that segment), Tolkien may well have known exactly what he was doing. Tolkien at his most mischievous, knowing full well that Tom would elicit a reaction from readers and thus gain an infamy of sorts.

 

[bengraven]

Can't we just chalk it up to Tolkien not knowing the character of Tom would blow up and just wrote him as a goofy, tertiary character with no ulterior motives?

But he really loved the character. I doubt a man with that much imagination over the tiniest of details in his world would not know anything about his own beloved character.

Like Tolkien and the Balrog/wings (and his drafting of that segment), Tolkien may well have known exactly what he was doing. Tolkien at his most mischievous, knowing full well that Tom would elicit a reaction from readers and thus gain an infamy of sorts.

You're probably right. I'm sure he reveled in people asking the question and giving incredibly vague, flowery descriptions of him as an elemental idea instead of an actual physical or even ethereal being.

 

[Leeroy3101]

Of course you guys start this as I'm halfway done with ROTK...

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Of course you guys start this as I'm halfway done with ROTK...

You'll find the analysis interesting and your thoughts on your reading experience are very welcome.

 

[Vashetti]

If we're going to be comparing the movies to the books, we could always dive into the special feature Appendices too, because I'm sure there's a few comments on cut content such as the Barrow-Downs and Bombadil.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

If we're going to be comparing the movies to the books, we could always dive into the special feature Appendices too, because I'm sure there's a few comments on cut content such as the Barrow-Downs and Bombadil.

Yes indeed. Those documentaries are very good and do explain quite well the reasoning behind some of the decisions.

 

[Loxley]

When winter first begins to bite
and stones crack in the frosty night,
when pools are black and trees are bare
'tis evil in the Wild to fare.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

It's been years since I've read LOTR, I'm probably in. I remember when I was a kid I skimmed through a lot of the early Shire chapters that talked about the Barrow Downs and Bombidal so it should be an interesting refresher.

Not going to lie I would have preferred Tolkien's version of Beowulf or some other classic. In fact I would love it if the community was expanded into talking about classical literature. I think the overlap here of people who would perhaps enjoy that is quite high.

 

[Loxley]

It's been years since I've read LOTR, I'm probably in. I remember when I was a kid I skimmed through a lot of the early Shire chapters that talked about the Barrow Downs and Bombidal so it should be an interesting refresher.

Not going to lie I would have preferred Tolkien's version of Beowulf or some other classic. In fact I would love it if the community was expanded into talking about classical literature. I think the overlap here of people who would perhaps enjoy that is quite high.

There will definitely be other read-throughs in the future. We're going with The Lord of the Rings to "start" with just because it's probably the most well-known of Tolkien's works outside of The Hobbit. We sort of found out the hard way last year what happens when you go with a Tolkien book that is very dense and notoriously difficult to parse through the first time around - people drop like flies.

Perhaps we'll get to do Beowulf or The Fall of Arthur at some point (which I would love), but I'm not convinced at the moment that there's high enough of a demand for it. But hey, I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

When winter first begins to bite
and stones crack in the frosty night,
when pools are black and trees are bare
'tis evil in the Wild to fare.

Great banner.

In terms of starting, what are you thinking? Next week or the week after?

Regarding the schedule; the following is my recommendation:

Book 1 of the Fellowship:

Week one
A Long-expected Party
The Shadow of the Past
Three is Company

Week two
A Short Cut to Mushrooms
A Conspiracy Unmasked
The Old Forest

Week three
In the House of Tom Bombadil
Fog on the Barrow-downs
At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

Week four
Strider
A Knife in the Dark
Flight to the Ford

Book 2:

Week five
Many Meetings
The Council of Elrond
The Ring goes South

Week six
A Journey in the Dark
The Bridge of Khazad-dûm
Lothlórien

Week seven
The Mirror of Galadriel
Farewell to Lórien
The Great River
The Breaking of the Fellowship

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Science's love affair with The Lord of the Rings

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ove-affair-with-the-lord-of-the-rings/392216/

 

[Loxley]

Great banner.

In terms of starting, what are you thinking? Next week or the week after?

Regarding the schedule; the following is my recommendation:

That break-up looks good to me, seven weeks seems plenty manageable. I think we should be good to go for next week at this point. Maybe post the thread this Friday to allow for a couple days of preliminary discussion and then officially "start" the discussion on either Sunday or Monday.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

When winter first begins to bite
and stones crack in the frosty night,
when pools are black and trees are bare
'tis evil in the Wild to fare.

Really wonderful, Loxley. Love it.

Great banner.

In terms of starting, what are you thinking? Next week or the week after?

Regarding the schedule; the following is my recommendation

I like this schedule! I guess I should hold off finishing for a bit so I can stay on pace with the schedule.

That break-up looks good to me, seven weeks seems plenty manageable. I think we should be good to go for next week at this point. Maybe post the thread this Friday to allow for a couple days of preliminary discussion and then officially "start" the discussion on either Sunday or Monday.

Sounds good! Can't wait to participate.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

That break-up looks good to me, seven weeks seems plenty manageable. I think we should be good to go for next week at this point. Maybe post the thread this Friday to allow for a couple days of preliminary discussion and then officially "start" the discussion on either Sunday or Monday.

Okay that sounds good. But who's going to post the thread? The two of us are the de facto Tolkien thread makers, but maybe someone else should post it and we can aid in the running of it.

 

[tryagainlater]

Oh man, this is great, I'm excited. Once I finish my last exam next Thursday, I'll be pulling my Fellowship out.

 

[Fathead]

This is gonna be fun. I'm gonna try a digital copy. Sneak a few pages in at work.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Quick question regarding Return of the King. It has to do with a scene in the film and I can't remember if it was in the book or not.

When Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith, Gandalf is trying to smoke his pipe but continues coughing and rasping to Pippin before finally giving up and emptying the pipe. Are we to assume that because he returned as Gandalf the White, that his lungs were cleansed of all tar and tobacco so that smoking was difficult for him again?

I know this is a minor detail and completely minute to the story, but it was always something I chuckled at, but didn't know if that was the idea behind it. My second guess was that Minas Tirith just had strong or low-quality pipe weed.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Quick question regarding The Two Towers. It has to do with a scene in the film and I can't remember if it was in the book or not.

When Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith, Gandalf is trying to smoke his pipe but continues coughing and rasping to Pippin before finally giving up and emptying the pipe. Are we to assume that because he returned as Gandalf the White, that his lungs were cleansed of all tar and tobacco so that smoking was difficult for him again?

I know this is a minor detail and completely minute to the story, but it was always something I chuckled at, but didn't know if that was the idea behind it. My second guess was that Minas Tirith just had strong or low-quality pipe weed.

Yours is a brilliant interpretation, but if I remember the commentaries correctly, it was simply to convey that smoking is bad.

 

[Vashetti]

Quick question regarding The Two Towers. It has to do with a scene in the film and I can't remember if it was in the book or not.

When Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith, Gandalf is trying to smoke his pipe but continues coughing and rasping to Pippin before finally giving up and emptying the pipe. Are we to assume that because he returned as Gandalf the White, that his lungs were cleansed of all tar and tobacco so that smoking was difficult for him again?

I know this is a minor detail and completely minute to the story, but it was always something I chuckled at, but didn't know if that was the idea behind it. My second guess was that Minas Tirith just had strong or low-quality pipe weed.

It was Return of the King, and I always saw it as Gandalf laughing because he found Pippin's predicament as 'Guard of the Citadel' amusing, which made it difficult to smoke.

 

[Kyleripman]

Though it's almost definitely not true it is fun to imagine there's something eerie about Tom Bombadil.


Here's a theory about him that I enjoyed reading.....

http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

Thanks for posting this. I read it a while ago but love revisiting it. It's so neat that there is so much textual evidence contradicting the "actual" nature of the character.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Yours is a brilliant interpretation, but if I remember the commentaries correctly, it was simply to convey that smoking is bad.

Ah, gotcha. The moments when Bilbo and Gandalf are smoking together doesn't make it seem all that bad!

It was Return of the King, and I always saw it as Gandalf laughing because he found Pippin's predicament as 'Guard of the Citadel' amusing, which made it difficult to smoke.

I have no idea why I said Two Towers. I really don't. Wow. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[bengraven]

Three chapters a week is perfect. I eat through these like butter but now I can spend more time enjoying the prose and world AND I still can read the other things I'm working on right now.

 

[Loxley]

Okay that sounds good. But who's going to post the thread? The two of us are the de facto Tolkien thread makers, but maybe someone else should post it and we can aid in the running of it.

I wouldn't mind posting the thread myself, if anything that might encourage me to make more of an effort to keep up with the reading.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I wouldn't mind posting the thread myself, if anything that might encourage me to make more of an effort to keep up with the reading.

Yes, that sounds good to me. My thread making skills have diminished somewhat. It's in better hands with you.

 

[4444244]

I've been listening to the Rob Inglis audiobook of Lord of the Rings pretty much every night for the last year and a half.

Once I finish, I start again. - well I get as far as Sam getting back home before the extra history section starts, oh, and I also sometimes skip the preface bit too.

On thing I like to think about is who is narrating the story, could it be Sam?

Also, I've mentioned this before, but one of the bug bears that I have is references early in the story about 'in later days they talked about this' kind of thing. I don't know if it was deliberate, but as soon as you see that you know everything will be cool in the end. If only he cut those bits, then there would be more suspense. Although do people prefer reading if they know it has a happy ending?

Re Tom being possible the Witch KIng. If he was so, would he not still be under the power of Sauron, or at least the Ring and should have just killed Frodo?

Also, isn't there a book about Tom and in it you get the jist that he used to be cruel to people?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I've been listening to the Rob Inglis audiobook of Lord of the Rings pretty much every night for the last year and a half.

Once I finish, I start again. - well I get as far as Sam getting back home before the extra history section starts, oh, and I also sometimes skip the preface bit too.

On thing I like to think about is who is narrating the story, could it be Sam?

Also, I've mentioned this before, but one of the bug bears that I have is references early in the story about 'in later days they talked about this' kind of thing. I don't know if it was deliberate, but as soon as you see that you know everything will be cool in the end. If only he cut those bits, then there would be more suspense. Although do people prefer reading if they know it has a happy ending?

Re Tom being possible the Witch KIng. If he was so, would he not still be under the power of Sauron, or at least the Ring and should have just killed Frodo?

Also, isn't there a book about Tom and in it you get the jist that he used to be cruel to people?

In terms of Sam, yes certainly. Tolkien was fond of 'tales within tales, and it's very evident in The Lord of the Rings. I think readers generally prefer a happy ending for characters that they've come to emphasise with, anything less would be an emotional letdown.

That Tom theory is pure fun, and not to be taken seriously. But, that Tom/Witch-king probably wanted to make amends and thus spared Frodo and actually wanted the destruction of the One, to be free from Sauron.

There is a book about Tom's adventures (called The Adventures of Tom Bombadil), a book of poetry. He wasn't cruel no, but there are some who have an issue with his treatment of Goldberry (how he courted her).

 

[Loxley]

The Fellowship read-through thread is up and running. Get hyped for Monday

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

While browsing in Barnes and Noble I came across a leather journal of the Hobbit. I've been playing the Black Mirror games and the character has inspired me to start keeping a journal. I probably would have gotten this but its too flagrantly labeled on front, something a little more minimalist would have been better.

Nice binding and felt good but the branding is a little too prominent.

Cool map on the inside front cover

Can anyone read these Elvish runes?