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TolkienGAF |OT| The World is Ahead

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Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
While browsing in Barnes and Noble I came across a leather journal of the Hobbit. I've been playing the Black Mirror games and the character has inspired me to start keeping a journal. I probably would have gotten this but its too flagrantly labeled on front, something a little more minimalist would have been better.

fPtHWQ2.jpg


Nice binding and felt good but the branding is a little too prominent.


kk9g9fE.jpg


Cool map on the inside front cover


qecDH7n.jpg



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Can anyone read these Elvish runes?
Those runes are from the map of Thror and translate as follows:

"Five feet high the door and three may walk abreast - Th. Th."
 
Edmond Dantès;163491478 said:
I notice META is banned. That's a shame. I hope he can still join in on the Fellowship read through.

I requested it so no worries. I had a major exam this past Wednesday and couldn't have my usual GAF to distract me ;)

And I come back to you now, at the turning of the tide.
 

bengraven

Member
Edmond Dantès;164058955 said:
She probably had ideas in her head as to what the illustrations were to look like, but was lacking the artistic talent to actually realise them, so got an artist to draw them under her supervision.

You are correct apparently!

GOHidxg.png


I looked it up and I wonder if it was because they wanted something more bold and easy on the eye. She seems to have a more light, painterly touch (most of her other art was painted) - Tolkien himself loved her art and said it was close to his own.

She actually seems pretty awesome (and is alive and very healthy today!). She not only illustrated quite a few editions of children's fairy tales, but designs lithographs, made costumes for stage plays, translates books into Dutch, AND studied archaelogy in school!

And her and Eric Fraser's Nazgul is tattoo worthy:

Tn3iOBw.jpg
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
You are correct apparently!

GOHidxg.png


I looked it up and I wonder if it was because they wanted something more bold and easy on the eye. She seems to have a more light, painterly touch (most of her other art was painted) - Tolkien himself loved her art and said it was close to his own.

She actually seems pretty awesome (and is alive and very healthy today!). She not only illustrated quite a few editions of children's fairy tales, but designs lithographs, made costumes for stage plays, translates books into Dutch, AND studied archaelogy in school!

And her and Eric Fraser's Nazgul is tattoo worthy:

Tn3iOBw.jpg
The variation in Tolkien art never ceases to amaze me.
Saw this over on Reddit today. Some general fun trivia bout the film series. There's an interesting one about RotK in which PJ stated that he disliked the Undead Army but included them out of respect to the source material. But then he's the one that included the awful skullvalanche...




More here: http://imgur.com/a/q6xL8?gallery
That 4 hour cut of the Fellowship sounds very interesting. I wonder what the extra hour or so contained.
 

Turin

Banned
Was Peter ever going to try to get the Barrow-downs in there?

I know he wanted to try and squeeze Bombadil in if he could.
 

Jacob

Member
Chapter list and playtime for the Moria section

33 Moria 01:57:52.1490000
34 A Journey in the Dark 02:04:17.5340000
35 Balin's Tomb 02:10:47.8820000
36 The Bridge of Khazad-dum 02:20:12.6130000

So roughly 23 minutes. I was off by a bit. Still feels so short to me.

The time you list for "The Bridge of Khazad-dum" is the beginning of the scene. Counting from the start of "Moria" until the end of "Bridge" (including the lament for Gandalf) takes you to roughly 2:29:32, making the whole Moria sequence roughly 32 minutes long (in the Extended Edition, that is). Not counting the fan club credits, FOTR-EE is 208 minutes long, making Moria about 15% of the film's run time.

Was Peter ever going to try to get the Barrow-downs in there?

I know he wanted to try and squeeze Bombadil in if he could.

I don't know how they could have included Bombadil without massively rewriting the second act (out of five) of FOTR. The writers went through that part of the book with a machete: Farmer Maggot, Crickhollow, the Old Forest, and the Barrow-downs are all excised, and Frodo & co.'s interactions with the Nazgul are tonally very different. In the books it's more of a cat and mouse game, numerous careful steps being taken in response to each other, but with enough time for peaceful introspective moments like the night with Gildor Inglorion, the bath at Crickhollow, Bombadil himself, and for the Prancing Pony to seem warm and welcoming. The film, by contrast, is much faster paced and tense throughout, with no room to breathe or relax until the characters reach Rivendell. More of a chase movie. Bombadil would have been completely out of place in the kind of story being depicted.

I'm not criticizing PJ for this; FOTR starts off very slow (something Tolkien was conscious of), and accelerating the pace somewhat was necessary for a cinematic adaptation. The amount of time PJ spent in the Shire, especially in the EE, was already pushing the limit of how long he could spend on introductory stuff. Having a big battle in the prologue probably helped more pre-empt criticisms of the film starting off boring and let him linger a little more, though.
 

Turin

Banned
The time you list for "The Bridge of Khazad-dum" is the beginning of the scene. Counting from the start of "Moria" until the end of "Bridge" (including the lament for Gandalf) takes you to roughly 2:29:32, making the whole Moria sequence roughly 32 minutes long (in the Extended Edition, that is). Not counting the fan club credits, FOTR-EE is 208 minutes long, making Moria about 15% of the film's run time.



I don't know how they could have included Bombadil without massively rewriting the second act (out of five) of FOTR. The writers went through that part of the book with a machete: Farmer Maggot, Crickhollow, the Old Forest, and the Barrow-downs are all excised, and Frodo & co.'s interactions with the Nazgul are tonally very different. In the books it's more of a cat and mouse game, numerous careful steps being taken in response to each other, but with enough time for peaceful introspective moments like the night with Gildor Inglorion, the bath at Crickhollow, Bombadil himself, and for the Prancing Pony to seem warm and welcoming. The film, by contrast, is much faster paced and tense throughout, with no room to breathe or relax until the characters reach Rivendell. More of a chase movie. Bombadil would have been completely out of place in the kind of story being depicted.

I'm not criticizing PJ for this; FOTR starts off very slow (something Tolkien was conscious of), and accelerating the pace somewhat was necessary for a cinematic adaptation. The amount of time PJ spent in the Shire, especially in the EE, was already pushing the limit of how long he could spend on introductory stuff. Having a big battle in the prologue probably helped more pre-empt criticisms of the film starting off boring and let him linger a little more, though.

You're probably right but I really enjoyed that long "boring" time in the Shire when watching the EE. ;-)

Anyway, I think the only opening for a super brief Bombadil cameo would have been right when Sam and Frodo left and before they run into Merry and Pippin.
 

Jacob

Member
Oh definitely, I love that part too. Part of me regrets that we didn't get to see more of Eriador in FotR, but short of a six film adaptation (which would have had its own narrative issues, and been cost prohibitive anyway) I don't think it would have worked onscreen.

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a Bombadil cameo. Nods to the book are nice, but Bombadil is hard enough to explain even when you get a chance to know him.
 

Turin

Banned
Yeah, I don't think he could have had much/any more of an appearance than Cirdan had. Something subtle that only those who know about him would appreciate.
 

4444244

Member
Thought I would show a pic of the 56 disc audiobookset of Hobbit and LOTR (Bob Inglis Ver).

I beleive that it cost me around £25, combining this with the LOTR Blu-Ray Box set that I picked up for £20, it really pays to be patient about these things.

sBDyRco.jpg



*I Love that pic of the barrow down!
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Thought I would show a pic of the 56 disc audiobookset of Hobbit and LOTR (Bob Inglis Ver).

I beleive that it cost me around £25, combining this with the LOTR Blu-Ray Box set that I picked up for £20, it really pays to be patient about these things.

sBDyRco.jpg



*I Love that pic of the barrow down!
I've just been listening to that version. Rob Inglis is pretty good value as a narrator. Although his Samwise depiction is verging on parody at times. Nice boxset.
 

4444244

Member
Yeah a couple of characters are a bit OTT, but otherwise his narration is nigh on perfect.

Although I really am not keen on all the songs Rob does great variations for them and it was no doubt a labour of love.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Yeah a couple of characters are a bit OTT, but otherwise his narration is nigh on perfect.

Although I really am not keen on all the songs Rob does great variations for them and it was no doubt a labour of love.
Yes indeed. I particularly like his Strider depiction and his Gandalf isn't too shabby either. If you haven't already done so, I recommend trying the BBC radio dramatisation.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Uraeus (Brego the horse) has died
Aged 28, but a timeless presence in the minds of those who had the honour of knowing this proud, handsome, and supremely intelligent being, mighty Uraeus has finally come to rest on the physical plane. Thank you, Jane and Ray, for helping him do so with dignity. Dearest friend and teacher, I hold you and keep you.’
– Viggo Mortensen
https://twitter.com/BrophyJed/status/601532075565416448

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Tizoc

Member
Those movie tidbits were great, especially the part where Viggo would throw apples, and Frodo overshooting his jump XD.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
First edition of Tolkien’s ‘The Hobbit’ fetches £137,000
A first edition of JRR Tolkien’s The Hobbit has been sold at an auction in New York to an anonymous bidder for £137,000 – twice what it was expected to reach.

The previous world record for a copy of The Hobbit was set in 2008 when it sold for £50,000.
Link

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How much of Children of Hurin did Tolkien actually write? I'm reading the Silmarillion right now and am thinking about reading it next but I don't really want to read something where they just took a basic outline of Tolkien and wrote a book around it. I get the feeling that the Silmarillion was more or less almost all his writing and Christopher just pulled it all together? Is Hurin similar or did they just to something like take the Turin chapter from Silmarillion and expand on it?
 

kess

Member
On the subject of Tolkien art, I wish there was a full print of Mike Dringenberg's Feanor that was used for the cover of the Silmarillion. Unfortunately, the only images that I can find are extremely small, or further defaced on subsequent editions.

attachment.php
 
How much of Children of Hurin did Tolkien actually write? I'm reading the Silmarillion right now and am thinking about reading it next but I don't really want to read something where they just took a basic outline of Tolkien and wrote a book around it. I get the feeling that the Silmarillion was more or less almost all his writing and Christopher just pulled it all together? Is Hurin similar or did they just to something like take the Turin chapter from Silmarillion and expand on it?

I just finished it. It does feel very genuine and the Silmarillion version was VERY much abridged from existing material. Tolkien himself wrote a huge poem version which probably was the base for the novel.

It's also not very long so there's that.
 

Jacob

Member
How much of Children of Hurin did Tolkien actually write? I'm reading the Silmarillion right now and am thinking about reading it next but I don't really want to read something where they just took a basic outline of Tolkien and wrote a book around it. I get the feeling that the Silmarillion was more or less almost all his writing and Christopher just pulled it all together? Is Hurin similar or did they just to something like take the Turin chapter from Silmarillion and expand on it?

It's almost all genuine JRRT stuff. Most of it had already been published in Unfinished Tales, so if you've read that book you won't me getting anything new in the 2007 version of The Children of Hurin, other than a more polished product. Anyway, the 1977 version of The Silmarillion is by no means "more or less almost all" of Tolkien's writings on the First Age. Tolkien went through and wrote numerous different versions of the First Age material, including multiple novella-length (or longer) versions of the major tales, several different (highly detailed) annals, thousands of lines of narrative poetry, and extensive essays on background stuff. The version that was published as "The Silmarillion" is a selection of material written over the course of some 50 years, with the inconsistencies ironed out by the editorial actions of Christopher Tolkien. It actually has far more new, Christopher-written material than any of the other posthumous publications, because Christopher changed his approach to editing his father's works afterwards, and was less concerned about presenting something internally consistent and more about showing the evolution of the works over time.

I just finished it. It does feel very genuine and the Silmarillion version was VERY much abridged from existing material. Tolkien himself wrote a huge poem version which probably was the base for the novel.

It's also not very long so there's that.

There was a poem version, The Lay of the Children of Hurin, but the novel is a polished version of Tolkien's prose story, Narn i Hin Hurin, which was written after the poem. (Both versions were preceded by the original Book of Lost Tales-era Turambar and the Foaloke, but that has all sorts of weirdness as Tolkien was still in his "mythology for England" phase and most of the recognizable elements of the legendarium had yet to be hammered out.) Tolkien also attempted a new prose version of the story of Tuor, taking into account all that had changed since BoLT, but unlike the Turin story, Tuor's never progressed past the introductory stuff. What does exist of it, breaking off with Tuor about to enter the city of Gondolin, was published in Unfinished Tales.

You're correct that the version of Turin's story found in the 1977 Silmarillion is the abridged version, rather than being the basis for the longer version. This is true of pretty much the whole book, though unfortunately, only Turin's story has a complete prose version written later than the 1910s.
 
So we're not ever getting a full Gondolin story then? What about Beren and Luthien, could that possibly be worked into a separate novel?
 

Jacob

Member
Sadly not. Christopher got a bunch of questions about this when he published The Children of Hurin as a stand-alone but he was very insistent that it would be the only one. The others would require too much original writing by him (or Adam Tolkien) to complete them as novels.

Edit: source
 

Jacob

Member
I had been curious if they'd go for another November release or if they'd do like ROTK-EE and hold off until December. Clearly the former, although it's the middle of the month rather than the first week. Though the digital version will probably be released earlier since that's what they've done with the previous Hobbit releases. But man, I'm still not totally sure what to make of it all being over so soon.

(Not saying I want them to go the SW/HP root and start churning out spin-off movies, but it's going to be so weird not having any new Middle-earth material too look forward to for who knows how many years until someone decides to reboot the franchise. Not just cause we've had six movies in the last 15 years, but since 2007 there's been barely any new Middle-earth stuff published either, with Christopher moving on to his father's other works and The History of The Hobbit having finally been completed.
 

Loxley

Member
As far as WB are concerned, for me there are two fairly obvious options if they wanted to keep making Middle-earth movies within their legal limits. The first would be a young-Aragorn film (or films) depicting all of his exploits leading up to his first encounter with the Hobbits in Bree. The second option (although far less likely, I think) would be a film adaptation of Shadow of Mordor. They could also make a film surrounding the Battle of Fornost I suppose, though this would require carving out a more linear narrative from that piece of ME history.

Either way, I refuse to believe we're not getting anymore ME films from them. Not after each of the Hobbit films made around a billion a piece. They proved there's still an audience for these sorts of films. While WB are undoubtedly setting up their new Fantastic Beasts series to be their next big fantasy epics, I have a feeling that once those are done with (it's supposedly a planned trilogy, right?) we're going to start hearing about a potential return to Middle-earth.
 

Jacob

Member
I recall hearing somewhere, possibly on GAF, that WB has to put out a new Middle-earth movie (dunno if TV shows are included in the agreement) every 10 years in order to keep the license that they have from Saul Zaentz. I don't know if this is true but it sounds reasonable to me. A spin-off set between TH and LOTR would probably make the most sense. I think WB would want a safe bet for their first Middle-earth movie not to be based directly off a book, but going to before the time of TH doesn't leave too many established characters available for POVs, and going after LOTR would, I think, be too risky a move. Young Aragorn and Balin in Moria are definitely the most likely candidates IMO.

I know Shadow of Mordor has been successful but has it been that successful? And given the poor track record for video game adaptations...
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Made this in pottery class. Thought it might be appropriate to share in this thread.

36xF2g5.jpg
 

Turin

Banned
Shadow of Mordor's story worked for the game but there really just wasn't a lot of story there. Half of that games charm came from finding artifacts. I think it'd be a waste to do a film adaption. Especially since it's non-canon.

Middle-earth is still a fascinating place to a lot of people so I can imagine they'll try to get something out there on the big screen. Hopefully it'd be less excessive than the Hobbit films, whatever it might be.
 

Vashetti

Banned
I had been curious if they'd go for another November release or if they'd do like ROTK-EE and hold off until December. Clearly the former, although it's the middle of the month rather than the first week. Though the digital version will probably be released earlier since that's what they've done with the previous Hobbit releases. But man, I'm still not totally sure what to make of it all being over so soon.

(Not saying I want them to go the SW/HP root and start churning out spin-off movies, but it's going to be so weird not having any new Middle-earth material too look forward to for who knows how many years until someone decides to reboot the franchise. Not just cause we've had six movies in the last 15 years, but since 2007 there's been barely any new Middle-earth stuff published either, with Christopher moving on to his father's other works and The History of The Hobbit having finally been completed.

As far as WB are concerned, for me there are two fairly obvious options if they wanted to keep making Middle-earth movies within their legal limits. The first would be a young-Aragorn film (or films) depicting all of his exploits leading up to his first encounter with the Hobbits in Bree. The second option (although far less likely, I think) would be a film adaptation of Shadow of Mordor. They could also make a film surrounding the Battle of Fornost I suppose, though this would require carving out a more linear narrative from that piece of ME history.

Either way, I refuse to believe we're not getting anymore ME films from them. Not after each of the Hobbit films made around a billion a piece. They proved there's still an audience for these sorts of films. While WB are undoubtedly setting up their new Fantastic Beasts series to be their next big fantasy epics, I have a feeling that once those are done with (it's supposedly a planned trilogy, right?) we're going to start hearing about a potential return to Middle-earth.

There's still potential 3D conversions for LOTR, as well as further-Extended versions they could do.
 

Jacob

Member
Have they ever talked about making even more extended versions? I know there have been hints and teases about an "ultimate edition" that would include a deleted scene compilation but I hadn't heard anything about new cuts of the movies, nor am I sure I'd really want one made 10+ years after the fact.
 
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