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[Momentary]

?? Game of Thrones has hispanic, black, and other minorities as characters. If you're talking about the sexuality of women then nevermind.

Th treatment of women.

Anyways, wouldn't something that had stuff like this in it give an opportunity for a woman to fight back and come out on top. This creates an awesome story for me. Where would the drama be if everyone is all prim and proper.

You know what... if they are trying to be all in line then this game shouldn't have killing in it either. How dare they show another human killing another human. How dare he goes around killing innocent creatures when all they want is some lunch.

 

[Pathfinder]

The review I'm sure lots of people were waiting for:

Polygon - 8.0

A provisional "8" because of its unfinished state.

That's still a good review. They'll probably up it to 8.5 or 9 after its patched.

At least they're being honest about it.

 

[iNvid02]

although its medieval, it is a fantasy world that should be able to incorporate people of different colours easier because it doesn't have to be historically accurate (e.g. game of thrones), however there is also the possibility CDPR are aiming for continuity in staying close to the source material as they've done in the past for this last outing.

gies could have mentioned that. instead he just ends the review with a sarcastic comment on his endless quest to find someone whos not white lol.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Btw, why all bandits etc. are men? Also I think CDPR came out and admitted that sex cards in TW1 was bad and juvenile decision from them, or do I remember wrong?

I can't find direct quotes from CDPR staff but interviews seem to say that they acknowledge that the sex cards were extremely tacky and that the reaction wasn't positive so they wouldn't do it again. They've just been trying to say that sex is a very real aspect and aren't trying to hide it.

 

[L1NETT]

What? It is a critics job to notice things like racial or gender depictions and call out creators who are bad at it so that the industry as a whole improves. This is absolutely their role.

Aye

Big Witcher fan but the series has always had issues with how it depicts female characters. It has made strides with Triss and others, but there is a juvenile streak going all the way to back those cards which is just really unnecessary. And the medieval excuse to justify this doesn't sit well. Pretty sure the Battle of Brenna isn't historical fact. But if folks do want to argue it from a historical angle then it's just plain wrong. Read Schaus, read anything about arabic/Moorish people in Europe/ read some Boswell. This white, male driven narrative is merely a popular version of medieval europe. Just strikes me as juvenile titillation. Minorities were treated in different ways and the Witcher depicting a crude version is a legitimate complaint especially when they themselves hark on that they have creating a realistic world.

I think the Witcher gets loads right but this Polygon review is completely valid. .

 

[Lunar15]

Polygon's review seemed pretty fair. The misogyny complaints aren't out of place for a Witcher game (These people made a sex trading card game in the first one), however it seems he had other problems with the game to back up his score.

There's nothing wrong with Gies pointing out how he felt about it. I do think it's odd to talk about the violence towards women, especially since this game is dealing with witch hunts... which is to say that it's partially the theme of the game. I don't think the game is encouraging the player to show violence towards women, instead painting the aggressors in a bad light. That said, the series had never shied away from sexualizing many of it's female characters, so who knows. It's certainly not the worst, since it does have females who are actually characters, but it's also not beyond criticism.

But I don't know, I haven't played it yet. Honestly, his review has loads of praise in it too. Don't miss the forest for the trees, guys. Many of you are soon to dislike this game, you just don't know it yet.

 

[Solemn_In_Berlin]

Oh fuck... I just read that review.. his complains about women and violence against them in a world which is heavily based on medieval period, I disagree greatly with him on this, but ok, I respect his opinion.. but this "... I don't recall a single non-white humanoid anywhere — not in Skellige, Novograd, Oxenfurt or anywhere else." What the fuck is this? Really, I don't understand this... a fictional world made by one Polish author should have people of all colors just because it MUST have for unknown reasons ? Does that reviewer complain about this stuff all the time? This is some fucking BS.. what the hell is wrong in this society? Now everyone who's going to make a new world in his book, video-game, movie, theater play, etc. should have there people of all colors, just because today's society is forcing it for BS reasons? Is this some kind of new rule/law which everyone must follow? Man, today's society is fucked up and it pisses me off

Diversity and representation are not BS reasons. Even if you're not gonna look at it that way, entertainment is gonna get stale (it kinda already is) if you're gonna feature the same stories (white or otherwise) over and over again. Besides, art has an inherent social, cultural, and/or socio-cultural value.

I don't know about you, guys, but I really appreciate the Polygon review. I've been asking about the Witcher games' writing since yesterday but didn't get a satisfying or at least informative answer. Judging from the articles and reviews I've been reading and videos I've been analyzing, CDPR succeeds in its world-building and storytelling and I'm sure it's true (those creature designs, for instance, are really creative and the politics, it seems, are engaging). Polygon's review just fleshed that out more for me than any other review and I'm thankful for that.

Not trying to cause a scene. Just my two cents.

 

[Eusis]

Anyone that generally doesn't like or lack to desire to finish WRPGs does this game set itself apart well enough?

I could never get into Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc, but this looks amazing and want to give it a try. Just worried that I will enjoy it for 20 hours and get bored like the aforementioned games.

Story quality is likely far superior, but otherwise I couldn't make any guarantees. Wait until a sale perhaps?

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Btw, why all bandits etc. are men? Also I think CDPR came out and admitted that sex cards in TW1 was bad and juvenile decision from them, or do I remember wrong?

Yeah, they did. And I did find the way romance was handled in TW2 far more mature than its predecessor. The only criticism I can recall was CDPR's reluctance to show Geralt's weird, likely hairless tadger in the same scenes as Triss's flaming bush, but that seems more of a "the author didn't want us to" thing.

There are female elven bandits like TW2, thankfully. Female monsters too, although the Succubi and Bruxae don't really help with the sexualization issue.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Damn that pre-release hype is getting to me. Every other game feels really boring right now.

 

[Momentary]

One can hope that a new Berserk game would be good enough to justify an above average review score.

That would mean that it was up to the reader to inform themselves on the review and make their own evaluation on whether or not it applies to them. As if the reader was a sentient being that was smart enough to have their own experiences.

I did inform myself and that's why out of everything I've read so far. Polygon's review is just funny. Attacking a part of the world. There are strong women in this series that stand up for themselves which makes them THAT much more.awesome because of how this world portrays the general woman. I just don't get why it's a negative party of the game when it's and element that drives the story and enhances other chacters by showing how strong willed and determined they are.

Just weird.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Anyone that generally doesn't like or lack to desire to finish WRPGs does this game set itself apart well enough?

I could never get into Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc, but this looks amazing and want to give it a try. Just worried that I will enjoy it for 20 hours and get bored like the aforementioned games.

Plot, characters, and world building are usually at the forefront of these games since they aren't about an avatar you create to represent you (outside of Mass Effect where it's largely the same character). I'm playing it for the plot and characters.

But if you tend to get bored with WRPG's because there's too much content look elsewhere because the game has tons and takes many many hours.

 

[Gattsu25]

Damn that pre-release hype is getting to me. Every other game feels really boring right now.

85% off right now: The Witcher 2 on GOG.com

 

[Corpekata]

Wow after some of the vitriol over their review and not seeing it I was expecting Polygon to have gone like 4/10 and eviscerated it. Not a frigging 8/10 and a mostly favorable review.

 

[Gattsu25]

Wow after some of the vitriol over their review and not seeing it I was expecting Polygon to have gone like 4/10 and eviscerated it. Not a frigging 8/10.

Yeah, it's a damn good score.

 

[Lunar15]

Yeah, it's a damn good score.

Honestly, in a year's time, I feel like many people will average around an "8" on it as well. That's just how it goes.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Damn that pre-release hype is getting to me. Every other game feels really boring right now.

Did you play Bloodborne?

 

[Carl7]

I obviously haven't played yet, but I think you can't have a perfect game without good female characters, it's not about social justice, it's about quality.

 

[MegaSackman]

A hundred years ago, women couldn't even vote in most, if not all, countries, and people is complaining about the portrait of women in a medieval fantasy game?

 

[kamineko]

The Polygon article is almost entirely positive.

I am familiar with the concerns expressed, and am prone to sympathy, really, but I'll play the game and evaluate for myself. I sometimes like problematic media, but, beyond that, I'm not sure that depiction and endorsement are the same things.

I do wish that review scores would go away, speaking generally. I think scores actually stifle discussion of important themes in a lot of reviews, because, when reviewing a media product, the practice leads to more emphasis on product than media. I mean, how does one quantify something that is thematically problematic? I wonder if anyone would care about the review as much if it didn't get funneled into an aggregate which is frequently monetized?

Don't get me wrong, I get excited about the numbers, too (like those for this game!) but they seem limiting in terms of broader discussion.

I'll consider the remarks of Gies and others while I play (and hopefully enjoy) the game.

 

[Corpekata]

A hundred years ago, women couldn't even vote in most, if not all, countries, and people is complaining about the portrait of women in a medieval fantasy game?

What point are you trying to make beyond illustrating your intimacy with logical fallacies?

 

[truestatic]

I obviously haven't played yet, but I think you can't have a perfect game without good female characters, it's not about social justice, it's about quality.

Gies specifically didn't complain that there weren't good female characters, just that the climate of the game is overwhelmingly misogynistic, and has an inordinate amount of violence directed at women specifically. He did dislike that even the better female characters were subject to sexualization through things like wardrobe malfunctions waiting to happen.

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

ima pass on this game.

I did not enjoy Witcher one nor two. I just could not get over how much I disliked the combat in both games and this game seem to have a similar combat style.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Wow after some of the vitriol over their review and not seeing it I was expecting Polygon to have gone like 4/10 and eviscerated it. Not a frigging 8/10 and a mostly favorable review.

It's just a weird, lengthy detour in an otherwise normal review. Sorta takes the reader off guard, or at least it did for me. I mean, the lack of ethnicities represented feels like missing the point of the non-humans (and witchers) in the Witcher universe. And for the misogynist charge, aside from the historical setting, it feels like a tough balance to get for devs. It's either under-represented or misogynistic, due to the limited roles women can have in such settings. I suppose I shouldn't speculate when I'm largely ignorant to the Witcher's greater history and geography, though.

With that out of the way, I've gotta say that Gies' detail on witcher quests was real good. It's exactly what I'd hoped for - a real fetch quest.

 

[Darksol]

So many bans

 

[Corpekata]

It's just a weird, lengthy detour in an otherwise normal review. Sorta takes the reader off guard, or at least it did for me. I mean, the lack of ethnicities represented feels like missing the point of the non-humans (and witchers) in the Witcher universe. And for the misogynist charge, aside from the historical setting, it feels like a tough balance to get for devs. It's either under-represented or misogynistic, due to the limited roles women can have in such settings. I suppose I shouldn't speculate when I'm largely ignorant to the Witcher's greater history and geography, though.

With that out of the way, I've gotta say that Gies' detail on witcher quests was real good. It's exactly what I'd hoped for - a real fetch quest.

Is it a tough balance? I love this series but they put their lead female character in Playboy. The series has always played up the cheesy hot babes angle so let's not act like they're going for realism or faithfulness to the time period when it comes to the roles of women. They have more in common with James Bond than they do history. And James Bond gets a lot of similar criticism as a series.

I think this post is a good example of why some people might take issue with it:

I'm a fan of both series, but The Witcher and Game of Thrones suffer from the exact same issue: they show a semi-realistic view of women with a medieval time period ('oh, look how these poor women are treated, it's this horrible!'), but then turn around and sexualise/objectify them at the same time ('eeey, lads, feast your eyes on this!'). Having your historical torture-porn with a bit of cheesecake on top is pretty crap to me. I don't always agree with Gies, but this issue is always worth discussing.

I will be getting the Witcher 3, though, as 1) gimme the awesome, 2) CD Projekt Red seems to be trying to improve how they treat their female characters with each game, even if it is at a bit of a glacial pace. I really like what I've seen with both Yennefer and Ciri, along with the return of Triss, etc. I do agree with Polygon/Kotaku, though, the design of Adult Ciri is a bit weird considering the role the protagonist/player has towards her. Bioshock Infinite's Elizabeth was another eye-brow raiser. Corsets are worn out the outer layer, yes, that's completely how it works. D'oh.

I'm looking forward to Rock Paper Shotgun's review, I don't think it's up yet?

 

[Inferno313]

It's just a weird, lengthy detour in an otherwise normal review. Sorta takes the reader off guard, or at least it did for me. I mean, the lack of ethnicities represented feels like missing the point of the non-humans (and witchers) in the Witcher universe. And for the misogynist charge, aside from the historical setting, it feels like a tough balance to get for devs. It's either under-represented or misogynistic, due to the limited roles women can have in such settings. I suppose I shouldn't speculate when I'm largely ignorant to the Witcher's greater history and geography, though.

With that out of the way, I've gotta say that Gies' detail on witcher quests was real good. It's exactly what I'd hoped for - a real fetch quest.

I have no idea how having other mythical races excuses the lack of other real life races? It doesn't alleviate it from any of the big problems that a lack of diversity causes. It assumes that "white" is the "default" or "normal" race.

Why do women have limited roles in such settings? It's a made up setting. The women can have any role the author wants.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Did you play Bloodborne?

Yeah, to death when it released. The only things left on my backlog are indie games that I'm not really in the mood for.

Maybe I'll try to do something productive in the next few days to get ahead of what will inevitably be a lazy next week.

 

[RDreamer]

Yeah the first game is the biggest culprit, but the universe has sorcerers/sorceresses that are really high up in the political chain (Triss and Yennefer are part of them) and most of the ones featured in the novels are the females. I can't recall one major male wizard character from the top of my head.

Viglefortz & Reince

But, yeah, most of the major wizards are sorceresses in the novels.

 

[Tukker]

lmao people going crazy about some nudity, gaming has a long way to go still compared to movies.

 

[Cryoteck]

What? It is a critics job to notice things like racial or gender depictions and call out creators who are bad at it so that the industry as a whole improves. This is absolutely their role.

If a reviewer is going to raise such concerns about sensitive social issues (which they absolutely have a right to do so) they need to be sure of the intent of the work. For example in the Witcher universe, issues surrounding race relations are explored in very complex and nuanced ways. The struggle between the Scoia'tael and their human oppressors show a cycle of violence and hatred that greatly affects the world at large and in the end makes the situation worse for the nonhumans who are just trying to live their lives in peace. The review for polygon implies that the game shows some degree of racism with what they say is an exclusion of blacks in the game despite the rather obvious symbology in the game. Missing intent and context in a work is lazy and does more harm than good.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm a fan of both series, but The Witcher and Game of Thrones suffer from the exact same issue: they show a semi-realistic view of women with a medieval time period ('oh, look how these poor women are treated, it's this horrible!'), but then turn around and sexualise/objectify them at the same time ('eeey, lads, feast your eyes on this!'). Having your historical torture-porn with a bit of cheesecake on top is pretty crap to me. I don't always agree with Gies, but this issue is always worth discussing.

I will be getting the Witcher 3, though, as 1) gimme the awesome, 2) CD Projekt Red seems to be trying to improve how they treat their female characters with each game, even if it is at a bit of a glacial pace. I really like what I've seen with both Yennefer and Ciri, along with the return of Triss, etc. I do agree with Polygon/Kotaku, though, the design of Adult Ciri is a bit weird considering the role the protagonist/player has towards her. Bioshock Infinite's Elizabeth was another eye-brow raiser. Corsets are worn out the outer layer, yes, that's completely how it works. D'oh.

I'm looking forward to Rock Paper Shotgun's review, I don't think it's up yet?

The design of adult Ciri isn't so weird considering her history. She was raised by sorceresses... mostly Yennefer. Yen was someone who definitely used her sexuality, and she taught Ciri to do the same when she was young. She taught her to be more "girly."

After that, she was still definitely sexualized a bit in the novels, what with her relationship to Mistle and the rose tattoo....

Is it a tough balance? I love this series but they put their lead female character in Playboy. The series has always played up the cheesy hot babes angle so let's not act like they're going for realism or faithfulness to the time period when it comes to the roles of women. They have more in common with James Bond than they do history. And James Bond gets a lot of similar criticism as a series.

I think this post is a good example of why some people might take issue with it:

The funny thing is that people said the James Bond sort of thing was present in the novels, and kind of made excuses for the game, but now that I've read (most of) the novels, that's really not the case. The developers have gone out of their way to really over sexualize things with the cards in the first game, and getting Triss in Playboy. And really it's funny that they did that to Triss considering she's one of the least likely of the sorceresses in the story to do that. She wore more modest clothes compared to some of the others.

Overall the novels still have some problematic pieces, but they do tend to use these elements a lot more maturely than the game. Not surprising, considering the gaming medium is still kind of getting up on its feet in that regard.

 

[Darksol]

If a reviewer is going to raise such concerns about sensitive social issues (which they absolutely have a right to do so) they need to be sure of the intent of the work. For example in the Witcher universe, issues surrounding race relations are explored in very complex and nuanced ways. The struggle between the Scoia'tael and their human oppressors show a cycle of violence and hatred that greatly affects the world at large and in the end makes the situation worse for the nonhumans who are just trying to live their lives in peace. The review for polygon implies that the game shows some degree of racism with what they say is an exclusion of blacks in the game despite the rather obvious symbology in the game. Missing intent and context in a work is lazy and does more harm than good.

Well put.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Earlier, preferably. It'd be nice to have a single place to go to. Just make sure it's okay to post earlier than Sunday, though. Hate to see it locked and possible bans to be dished out.

The guidelines just say not to post it more than 7 days before the release of the game.

I've still got to finish the thing yet so I'll post it on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Slowdive]

The guidelines just say not to post it more than 7 days before the release of the game.

I've still got to finish the thing yet so I'll post it on Saturday or Sunday.

OTs go up a day before release now.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

All this talk about the Witcher's sometimes offputting portrayal of women especially in regards to being sexual objects does kinda makes me wonder what the series becomes if it moves forward with Ciri as a main character.

 

[LeonSPBR]

The only review that matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqVtISdEEDo

GWC is so funny. His reviews is defintrly the best review.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Yeah, to death when it released.

Glad to hear it. Game is ace, though I'm still struggling through it/loving it.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The guidelines just say not to post it more than 7 days before the release of the game.

I've still got to finish the thing yet so I'll post it on Saturday or Sunday.

As Slowdive just mentioned, we put OTs up the day before release now. That really means the OT should be going up on the 18th, not the 16th or 17th.

All this talk about the Witcher's sometimes offputting portrayal of women especially in regards to being sexual objects does kinda makes me wonder what the series becomes if it moves forward with Ciri as a main character.

Either something potentially really interesting or really potentially dumb.

 

[Teknoman]

Plot, characters, and world building are usually at the forefront of these games since they aren't about an avatar you create to represent you (outside of Mass Effect where it's largely the same character). I'm playing it for the plot and characters.

But if you tend to get bored with WRPG's because there's too much content look elsewhere because the game has tons and takes many many hours.

I think the issue is, they dump all side content on you early on. As such, you end up focusing more on that than the main story...and usually get burned out in the process. Witcher series doesn't have this problem so far IMO...but most modern wrpgs do.


Edit: GWC guy sounds like The ladies man.

 

[Complistic]

All this talk about the Witcher's sometimes offputting portrayal of women especially in regards to being sexual objects does kinda makes me wonder what the series becomes if it moves forward with Ciri as a main character.

A brothel simulator according to some people.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I think the issue is, they dump all side content on you early on. As such, you end up focusing more on that than the main story...and usually get burned out in the process. Witcher series doesn't have this problem so far IMO...but most modern wrpgs do.

I usually get the main story out of the way first before I jump into the side content. It's been like that for me with GTA and the Elder Scroll series. People could take a bit of personal responsibility and just ignore the side content and play through the main campaign. Most open world games are designed to have the main story done first and then side things.

 

[Tovarisc]

OTs go up a day before release now.

As Slowdive just mentioned, we put OTs up the day before release now. That really means the OT should be going up on the 18th, not the 16th or 17th.

What about digital global release kinda pushing release date to 18th for NA? Shouldn't OT be put up on 17th?

 

[Corpekata]

What about digital global release kinda pushing release date to 18th for NA? Shouldn't OT be put up on 17th?

Think it can go up as early as the 17th at 4 Pacific.

 

[CHC]

All this talk about the Witcher's sometimes offputting portrayal of women especially in regards to being sexual objects does kinda makes me wonder what the series becomes if it moves forward with Ciri as a main character.

Well if Geralt is anything to go by, she'd probably be the woman that "men want to be with and women want to be". Geralt is both the greatest swordsman and the ultimate casanova, so I'm sure their portrayal of a female character would be just as charmingly sex-ed up yet badass.

 

[RockTurtle]

If a reviewer is going to raise such concerns about sensitive social issues (which they absolutely have a right to do so) they need to be sure of the intent of the work. For example in the Witcher universe, issues surrounding race relations are explored in very complex and nuanced ways. The struggle between the Scoia'tael and their human oppressors show a cycle of violence and hatred that greatly affects the world at large and in the end makes the situation worse for the nonhumans who are just trying to live their lives in peace. The review for polygon implies that the game shows some degree of racism with what they say is an exclusion of blacks in the game despite the rather obvious symbology in the game. Missing intent and context in a work is lazy and does more harm than good.

that would take dedication and actual immersion within the context of the work. it's much easier to mouth off the low hanging fruit of current trends in game media.

 

[Wolvesinthebathroom]

So I have the game preloaded and pinned on my Xbox and you usually have to say the full name of the game to go to it when using kinect but that's not the case with the witcher.

Cd projekt red gets it.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Is it a tough balance? I love this series but they put their lead female character in Playboy. The series has always played up the cheesy hot babes angle so let's not act like they're going for realism or faithfulness to the time period when it comes to the roles of women. They have more in common with James Bond than they do history. And James Bond gets a lot of similar criticism as a series.

I think this post is a good example of why some people might take issue with it:

Welp. I completely overlooked the clothing issue. I guess I'm getting conditioned to it or something.. bah.

There's a long way to go - y'all are right.

I have no idea how having other mythical races excuses the lack of other real life races? It doesn't alleviate it from any of the big problems that a lack of diversity causes. It assumes that "white" is the "default" or "normal" race.

Why do women have limited roles in such settings? It's a made up setting. The women can have any role the author wants.

I have no idea how the mythical races necessitate real world races, so we're in the same boat. The same would go for a fantasy setting & roles of women - but as I completely overlooked a sweeping issue (above) regarding the treatment of female characters, I take back what I said in my previous post; I was forgetful and mistaken.

And as to why nearly every character is white? (This is rank speculation on my part.) I'd imagine that's the Polish dominant ethnicity, of which the author is a part, and that most far-off trade in the Witcher's universe is cut off from monsters and/or corruption.

That said, there is precedent for other ethnicities. For example, a Zerrikanian (Middle-Eastern/Persian?) fellow is a very prominent character in Witcher 1.

Edit

All this talk about the Witcher's sometimes offputting portrayal of women especially in regards to being sexual objects does kinda makes me wonder what the series becomes if it moves forward with Ciri as a main character.

Is it confirmed to be Ciri taking up the mantle? I guess the end of the Witcher 3 will set the stage.

If it is Ciri, her portions of the Witcher 3 should give us some idea of what the Witcher 4 will be like.

 

[CHC]

So I have the game preloaded and pinned on my Xbox and you usually have to say the full name of the game to go to it when using kinect but that's not the case with the witcher.

Cd projekt red gets it.

Between "what's on ___ store" and the game simply being titled "Witcher" it looks like the front page was laid out by a dog with a computer.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

What about digital global release kinda pushing release date to 18th for NA? Shouldn't OT be put up on 17th?

In that case, you can probably be safe with 24 hours to whatever time it's released on the 18th, which is probably like 4PM PST.