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[Krejlooc]

Sensing your hand movement in 3D space is a tricky problem without sophisticated tracking. Short of Lighthouse, the Move wands are a pretty good way to do it cost-effectively.

I know, you are concerned about looking silly. VR is definitively a single player experience. Why worry, even if it was valid.

Ive been working on a 2 player shoot out demo using just one vr headset, where player 2 uses outside in positional tracking to treat the tv as a window into virtual reality.

.

 

[backbreaker65]

Cool, I can't wait for Project Morpheus. I'm so glad it will get a big push. We have been playing games the same way for decades, now I want to try something new. CAN'T WAIT.

 

[Portugeezer]

I hope Morpheus will be hacked to work on PC, I would hate to buy 2 VR headsets, and Morphues most likely will be a lot cheaper than any 3rd party PC offering.

Good. This is what I feel Sony should focus on.

Again, I don't mean to get hopes up about TLG or anything related to Ueda, but this was a slide used in the first unveiling of Project Morpheus:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjDXbJ5CYAInmI3.jpg:large[img]

I sincerely hope that if TLG does exist, it is THE debut flagship title for Morpheus.

Edit:
TLG or GT7.[/QUOTE]

I can't see GT7 NOT supporting Morpheus. Polyphonic Digital have always been technically proficient, they will get GT7 on Morpheus with little to no difference from the normal game.

 

[Seanspeed]

Although if we were arguing semantics, you could argue the case for the term anyway, since we're constructing new data points within the range of two discrete known data points/sensor inputs, which is how math defines it

Yea, it's similar enough in concept. Frankly, if a person gets that far, I see no reason to be annoyed. That's far better than a lot of people do when it comes to understanding VR.

im waiting a pool, bowling, darts, ping pong, etc party type games to pop out

That's low hanging fruit, but yes, I'm sure we'll see somebody do it.

 

[Kaako]

Still so many clueless posters when it comes to Morpheus/VR in general if this thread is any indication to go by. This is why they need as much people to actually TRY it at their booth. Would give you a much better perspective and feel for the thing.

 

[Oppo]

I'd wait to see what Sony show at E3 before assuming that....

spill it. i demand satisfaction

Ive been working on a 2 player shoot out demo using just one vr headset, where player 2 uses outside in positional tracking to treat the tv as a window into virtual reality.

... huh. nifty idea.

 

[Neuromancer]

VR is definitively a single player experience..

Not true. I think we'll be seeing a lot of games that depend on other people, not using Morpheus, interacting with each other.

 

[Krejlooc]

I'm a little LTTP here, but... just like clockwork. This silly notion never seems to die.

If it really was so weak, would they really push VR this hard? Please think about this critically. They've developed the ps4 with VR in mind, of course it's capable of those requirements.

I agree with his sentiment, I think most of the PS4's VR experiences are going to be much like what they have shown off - stationary rooms from a single vantage point where aggressive culling can occur. Look at stuff like their bank heist or their shark demo. There isn't a lot of world geometry there. I liken these experiences to single-screen arcade games, where most people are expecting what would be the equivalent of scrolling screen games in this analogy.

I think the morpheus will, like mobile VR, have a strong emphasis on media content. Omnidirectional videos, being teleported live courtside to an NBA game, VR films from Fox, etc. Those types of things are computationally inexpensive.

VR Film = very low system requirements

The kind of high end VR experiences that are more akin to traditional games, I don't think the PS4 will be able to provide that.

And my notion isn't silly, I work in VR.

 

[KingSnake]

I'm pretty sure most people don't care about Nintendo because they straight up don't appeal to them, not because they're insecure about roommate Joey being a meanie and making fun.

Whatever. This is offtopic, so I won't discuss it here. But now I understand your threads.

Edit: Coming back to the topic and to the comment below. This is the challenge for Sony, how to make the presentation not to be boring. How to sell the VR experience to the audience. This is the most interesting part for me.

 

[Handy Fake]

Whether or not the Morpheus runs on a PS4, which of course it does, is not my issue with VR. It'd be a pretty hard sell to me if it launched at a price point higher than the hardware it runs in at launch. $200-$300 seems like that might be the target if they want the highest penetration possible, while not limited sing too much on each unit.

Sony have said that they want to make a consumer product, so I think they'll end up at a lower price. Anything higher than $500, I feel, will be more of a hobbyist item and I hope Sony have learned that "$599 USD" is not really in a lot of their customers price range.

I honestly can't imagine it being any higher than £199. In fact I'd take a stab in the dark at £149.99 (UK). They've got the chance to corner the VR market and coast on its success for years and they'd be mad not to capitalise on it. An affordable VR system WILL sell PS4s.

 

[Mar Nosso]

I'm going to be SOOOOOO freaking bored during this part of the conference. To me it'll get to Wonderbook levels of boring. Simply couldn't care less about VR.

 

[Man]

The kind of high end VR experiences that are more akin to traditional games, I don't think the PS4 will be able to provide that.

And when Sony rolls out Gran Turismo 7 VR, Eve Valkyrie VR, No Man's Sky VR etc on stage next week?

Spoiler

actually not expecting the last one there due to potential on-foot sickness

 

[David Ricardo]

Morpheus will have plenty of games that use the DS4. Also Project Cars is a game that's already out that will have Morpheus support some day, so there's your wheel.

Project cars + morpheus + wheel is something I really look forward too.

No man's sky also looks like a game that could make good use of morpheus.

 

[spekkeh]

Is GearVR sold with a hefty profit margin? Surely Morpheus couldn't be $200 if a solution without a screen and some sensors already costs that much.

 

[Forsete]

I'm going to be SOOOOOO freaking bored during this part of the conference. To me it'll get to Wonderbook levels of boring. Simply couldn't care less about VR.

Same here. Ugh-deluxe. :/

 

[Kacho]

Sony's presser should be a fun watch if they're going to focus a lot on VR. I expect many awkward moments during it. lol

 

[Sidewinder]

Good, good! As long as they don't demo it on stage (for too long) I'm completely fine with it, Morpheus deserves the attention. Maybe they'll even bring Colony Wars back, this combined with TLG and I'm gonna faint

 

[ironcreed]

Yes yes, you think it's gonna fail. That's great. Thanks for your contribution.

I am free to disagree. That is the beauty of a discussion. And hey, I even explained why with sound reasoning.

Price on top of the console, plus the unattractiveness of having to wear a bulky device on your head and being taken out of your natural surroundings are going to be very real concerns and drawbacks for people. But hey, that is just reality.

 

[CitizenCope]

Great news to me. Bring it on!

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I'm going to be SOOOOOO freaking bored during this part of the conference. To me it'll get to Wonderbook levels of boring. Simply couldn't care less about VR.

Do about 10 minutes of push-ups or something while that part is on. Turn a negative into a positive, geez!

 

[Norns]

I still don't see how the PS4 is going to push enough horsepower to support VR that isn't a muddy mess. But hell, I'll buy one if they get it working.

 

[Krejlooc]

Probably something to do with people automatically equating anything that creates "extra-frames" to interpolation thanks to decade+ of TV abusing the term. Which also explains why OR and Vive get away with doing the same and not being called interpolation

Although if we were arguing semantics, you could argue the case for the term anyway, since we're constructing new data points within the range of two discrete known data points/sensor inputs, which is how math defines it

It's not really a semantics argument, because the term explains its limitations. Reprojection isnt magic, it happens extremely late in the rendering pipeline (its the very last step), which means it happens after the scene has been culled. Reprojection, as an example, only really works for pitch, yaw, and rotation. Oculus recently showed off a demo with positional reprojection enabled to demonstrate precisely why it doesnt work. You see the world literally come apart.

 

[Mononoke]

I am free to disagree. That is the beauty of a discussion. And hey, I even explained why with sound reasoning.

Price on top of the console, plus the unattractiveness of having to wear a bulky device on your head and being taken out of your natural surroundings are going to be very real concerns and drawbacks for people. But hey, that is just reality.

Do we even know how bulky it will be, in terms of weight? Or if it can have weight cut down by the final build?

Also, people spend money all the time on new phones, tablets etc annually, or within a 2 year range. Granted, those are things people NEED. They use them for everything (well, maybe not tablets, but def smart phones). But consumers have shown they are willing to pay a lot for devices on top of devices. That they will pay a lot of money, close to already having paid for something expensive a year or two prior. SO that argument doesn't hold 100% weight.

Do I think it's an issue, yeah. You are right $399 for console, then needing to possibly spend $300-400 again on top of it. That will def be a hurdle. But it's not an impossible hurdle. And you keep saying the thing is really bulky, like it's this massive thing that will hurt your neck and be uncomfortable. That doesn't seem like a known factor?

I still don't see how the PS4 is going to push enough horsepower to support VR that isn't a muddy mess. But hell, I'll buy one if they get it working.

Someone already brought up that smartphones can do VR. Surely a PS4 can?

 

[SgtCobra]

I don't care about VR therefore Sony's E3 presser will bore me to sleep, good for the people who are into that thing though.
Pls MS no VR.

 

[Oppo]

Not true. I think we'll be seeing a lot of games that depend on other people, not using Morpheus, interacting with each other.

mea culpa, clearly I am wrong. those guys are great by the way, I've talked to them. they're from Ottawa. I do think their thing is a bit limited but the idea is amazing.

Do we even know how bulky it will be, in terms of weight? Or if it will be even cut down in weight by the final build?

lots of impressions say the Morpheus is the most comfortable setup, works with glasses, all that. I myself have only tried Morpheus and Oculus DK1 but Morpheus is way out in front. it distributes weight very well.

 

[Krejlooc]

And when Sony rolls out Gran Turismo 7 VR, Eve Valkyrie VR, No Man's Sky VR etc on stage next week?

Spoiler

actually not expecting the last one there due to potential on-foot sickness

I doubt you will see gt7 in vr. And no man's sky is precisely the sort of game I am talking about - lots of empty void in that game. I fully expect nms to have vr support, not least of which being because they already have gotten it working on the rift.

 

[Neuromancer]

Is GearVR sold with a hefty profit margin? Surely Morpheus couldn't be $200 if a solution without a screen and some sensors already costs that much.

Good question, I would imagine so given the price and that it doesn't come with a phone, like you said.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I hope Morpheus will be hacked to work on PC, I would hate to buy 2 VR headsets, and Morphues most likely will be a lot cheaper than any 3rd party PC offering.



I can't see GT7 NOT supporting Morpheus. Polyphonic Digital have always been technically proficient, they will get GT7 on Morpheus with little to no difference from the normal game.

Finally make good use of those sickly detailed premium modeled interiors that PD worked on.

 

[Man]

I doubt you will see gt7 in vr.

I think it's the most assured thing (for it to be announced).
GT5/6 both had stereo 3D-rendering, head-tracking and high framerate. Polyphony Digital has been ready for years.
And Gran Turismo 7 VR is a bigger deal than any VR title announced to-date. It's a killer app and it's a genre that works really well in that format.

 

[FleetFeet]

I'm pretty sure most people don't care about Nintendo because they straight up don't appeal to them, not because they're insecure about roommate Joey being a meanie and making fun.

Yup, been years since I've been interested in what Nintendo's been doing, due to the fact that they primarily market to families and the younger demographic. That's just not for me.

If some people are so insecure about wearing a headset in the privacy of their own home and being made a fool from a SO and friends, they have more issues at hand that they need to deal with, because at the end of the day it's just entertainment... it shouldn't dictate how you feel when you want to enjoy yourself in your free time.

 

[EmptySpace]

I doubt you will see gt7 in vr. And no man's sky is precisely the sort of game I am talking about - lots of empty void in that game. I fully expect nms to have vr support, not least of which being because they already have gotten it working on the rift.

gt7 is totally going for morpheus. immersion is one of kazunori's goals.

they did gt5 with 3d and head tracking already. they integrated adaptive tessellation in gt6 to help manage cpu/gpu resources. we all know it's coming.

 

[Mononoke]

mea culpa, clearly I am wrong


lots of impressions say the Morpheus is the most comfortable setup, works with glasses, all that. I myself have only tried Morpheus and Oculus DK1 but Morpheus is way out in front. it distributes weight very well.

Interesting. So why do people keep calling it "bulky", if they haven't actually tried it on?

 

[Sp33Demon]

As much as I look forward to VR, not sure if this is a tech that is well suited for long segments of a live presser.

In some ways it is good. A good presser/trailer/demo should wet the appetite and encourage imagination. Unlike a regular game where you know what you're looking at, people tend to imagine themselves in the VR world fully immersed.

If you look back to the Project Natal stuff, it really made people think optimistically of what motion and gesture-based controls could be. Sadly it was mostly smoke and mirrors and never worked nearly as well as our imaginations did but it was effective demonstration. Fortunately VR will translate better to gameplay as it is just a change in how we view what we play and not how we play what we play.

 

[Seanspeed]

I am free to disagree. That is the beauty of a discussion. And hey, I even explained why with sound reasoning.

Price on top of the console, plus the unattractiveness of having to wear a bulky device on your head and being taken out of your natural surroundings are going to be very real concerns and drawbacks for people. But hey, that is just reality.

You're free to disagree, it just gets old with every VR thread where people come in and just HAVE to talk about how not interested they are in it or how it's just a fad and is going to fail or whatever.

And yes, it has drawbacks. Traveling for vacation has drawbacks, but people put up with any hassle bits because the destination is more than worth it. I don't think it's gonna be nearly as 'drawback-heavy' as many think, either.

 

[matmanx1]

VR, done in an affordable and effective way, is a good thing for immersiveness. And immersion is key for certain types of gaming. You don't have to love VR or be excited about it but don't ruin it for the rest of us. Some of us are eagerly awaiting this tech and are very curious about how Sony is going to go about bringing it to us.

 

[Fafalada]

And my notion isn't silly, I work in VR.

At the stage things are at, VR rendering is only scratching the surface of possibilities. I'd argue that once the envelope of optimizations gets pushed, it's not unreasonable to expect 1080p stereo HMD to only add something in the scale of 30% pixel-overhead over 2d 1080p.
The rest (geometry complexity scaling, world-update rates etc.) are all already solved problems that just need to be used, so 60hz experiences should be very doable at competitive complexity.

Of course - most "big" productions aren't really geared to be performance centric to the extent VR needs it, so that will be the bigger obstacle to overcome IMO.

 

[Cathcart]

Yeah... I really hope this isn't the future.

Yeah I think we're about to be dragged kicking and screaming into this bullshit. I really don't want to wear those stupid headsets. It's fine when they're a bunch of games I don't care about but eventually it'll be like hey the Witcher 4 is VR exclusive and then I gotta go light Poland on fire.

 

[Seanspeed]

Fortunately VR will translate better to gameplay as it is just a change in how we view what we play and not how we play what we play.

It will be both. VR will not just be the same games but with a new perspective. Some will, but it's going to open up all kinds of new ways to interact within apps, too.

 

[Sorral]

This is very exciting for me. I wish I could go there.

I still don't see how the PS4 is going to push enough horsepower to support VR that isn't a muddy mess. But hell, I'll buy one if they get it working.

They already got it working. Can easily find the demos on YouTube and they are not muddy mess. Isn't the Playroom bots demo full 120fps? I forgot.

I also think GT7 is going to have VR. Not having it would be way too big of a missed opportunity.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I love the man, but he's living in the past.

Also, I highly doubt EVERYTHING will go all VR. There will be a space for everything.

Yep.

Radio didn't replace books.
Cinema didn't replace radio and books.
Tv didn't replace cinema, radio and books.
Video games didn't replace tv, cinema, radio and books.
VR video games won't replace normal video gaes, tv, cinema, radio and books.

 

[prwxv3]

I don't care about VR therefore Sony's E3 presser will bore me to sleep, good for the people who are into that thing though.
Pls MS no VR.

The entire conference will not be VR.

 

[mrklaw]

I doubt you will see gt7 in vr. And no man's sky is precisely the sort of game I am talking about - lots of empty void in that game. I fully expect nms to have vr support, not least of which being because they already have gotten it working on the rift.

I can't see them not doing it, even if it means toning down the graphics.

Previous games on last gen supported head tracking via webcam and 3D stereo. Game is a seated experience, no walking therefore no issues with strafing or rotation creating motion sickness. Seems like an ideal candidate for VR?

 

[Stoof]

Sounds like it will take up a good chunk of the conference. I'm interested in VR but I don't see how they'll be able to show it off without it getting boring.

 

[FleetFeet]

I agree with his sentiment, I think most of the PS4's VR experiences are going to be much like what they have shown off - stationary rooms from a single vantage point where aggressive culling can occur. Look at stuff like their bank heist or their shark demo. There isn't a lot of world geometry there. I liken these experiences to single-screen arcade games, where most people are expecting what would be the equivalent of scrolling screen games in this analogy.

I think the morpheus will, like mobile VR, have a strong emphasis on media content. Omnidirectional videos, being teleported live courtside to an NBA game, VR films from Fox, etc. Those types of things are computationally inexpensive.

VR Film = very low system requirements

The kind of high end VR experiences that are more akin to traditional games, I don't think the PS4 will be able to provide that.

And my notion isn't silly, I work in VR.

So was street luge another one of those stationary experiences? Cause that was far from stationary, at least the in-game aspect.

 

[Oppo]

Interesting. So why do people keep calling it "bulky", if they haven't actually tried it on?

I dunno man. Morpheus is bigger than the goggles, but when you look at how the head strap works, it's a nice counterbalance. it's sort of away from your face, if that makes sense. rather than strapped to your head. If they say bulky it isn't due to weight, maybe they are just looking at the overall thing. It's quite light.

 

[styl3s]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Hopefully it is minimal at the actual conference.

10, maybe 15 minutes top.

They will come out and talk about the head set and the specs and screens and announce some games and show some non-VR trailers (not the split screen stuff). You can't really show off VR at a conference unless everyone in attendance has one of those headsets and i doubt sony is gonna hook up 200,300+ headsets.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Hopefully it is minimal at the actual conference.

No first post medal for you x3. This is great news, gives me something interesting to look forward to with their conference.

 

[Chabbles]

I wanna hear more about whatever they're working on with nasa, walk around mars in VR or something.. if its even a thing that will come to fruition.

 

[solis74]

I'm going to be SOOOOOO freaking bored during this part of the conference. To me it'll get to Wonderbook levels of boring. Simply couldn't care less about VR.

yeah you and me both

 

[Krejlooc]

At the stage things are at, VR rendering is only scratching the surface of possibilities. I'd argue that once the envelope of optimizations gets pushed, it's not unreasonable to expect 1080p stereo HMD to only add something in the scale of 30% pixel-overhead over 2d 1080p.
The rest (geometry complexity scaling, world-update rates etc.) are all already solved problems that just need to be used, so 60hz experiences should be very doable at competitive complexity.

Of course - most "big" productions aren't really geared to be performance centric to the extent VR needs it, so that will be the bigger obstacle to overcome IMO.

The problem isnt pixel fill like people keep assuming. That becomes a problem at much higher resolution, but not 1080p. The problem is related to the other half of the equation - hardware latency. And the path current solutions are taking will require iterative hardware. Personally, foveated rendering and rolling asynchronous line-specific reprojection are the two important technologies that will make vr resemble current high end games without much added load. And both of those require hardware that flat out doesnt exist yet. In the meantime, the solution is pure, old fashioned btute force hardware.