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VRFocus: Big Morpheus push at Sony presser, half of their booth devoted to it

Yeah, I understand that, but it's clearly not the same experience, and shouldn't be overdone on a stage as a way to impress people.

what would you have them do, then? they're trying to push it to the masses. e3 gets the most coverage from both online and media present.

it'd be stupid to just spend 5 minutes and be done with it just because you can't experience it right then and there.
 

Oppo

Member
They're good, but the person who thought it was a good idea to exclude an analog stick from the control with the tracking leds should be fired, as it limited it severely.

that's Richard Marks, he talked about it when Move came out. Players couldn't handle the disconnect between the analog stick and the controller motion. they did try it.
 
To be honest I do not want Morpheus to succeed because I own multiple game devices, and I need a VR Device to run everywhere not just in the PS4...! Maybe if Oculus Rift succeed on PC it makes its way to the consoles (XB1 and PS4) but if Morpheus succeed it is very difficult that it will be compatible with the PC and XB1
 

Footos22

Member
The last time I tried VR I was 15. First time at Disney world.

I've wanted it ever since. Im fucking 30 now, its about damn time. Show me everything.
 
To be honest I do not want Morpheus to succeed because I own multiple game devices, and I need a VR Device to run everywhere not just in the PS4...! Maybe if Oculus Rift succeed on PC it makes its way to the consoles (XB1 and PS4) but if Morpheus succeed it is very difficult that it will be compatible with the PC and XB1
A rising tide lifts all boats. Also Palmer Luckey has said repeatedly he's not interested in working with console manufacturers.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ga...r-too-limited-for-what-we-re-planning-1198420
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
I can't see this being 200, but i hope so. Maybe 250-299.

Then again I was wrong predicting about every single sony price point since the og psp.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What do you think is a worthy debut flagship title for Morpheus?

THIS!

no_mans_sky.jpg
 

JCizzle

Member
I hope that Sony and others have learned from previous mistakes - as cool as this thing might be, it will fail without support from great games. That means a large number of AAA games, in my opinion. Otherwise it's going the way of kinect. I have my doubts that they'll have the support needed because this seems to be the same mistake made year after year by most hardware companies, but hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Nzyme32

Member
I hope that Sony and others have learned from previous mistakes - as cool as this thing might be, it will fail without support from great games. That means a large number of AAA games, in my opinion. Otherwise it's going the way of kinect. I have my doubts that they'll have the support needed because this seems to be the same mistake made year after year by most hardware companies, but hopefully I'm wrong.

Except next to no "AAA" companies are going to be willing to invest in a market with very few consumers, other than first parties or games with a significantly low budget that can still be profited from. Also, the idea that AAA games will be the games that are the most meaningful and compelling or worthy of being great games, is definitely wrong thus far. Some of the simple things have been the most successful, such as tilt brush - a "game" that is simply painting in 3D, has seen such good response that Google bought them following the response - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzoHRlUqBBc
 
Does VR translate well at conferences? I think this is something you have to try yourself, not watch others try it. That's what worries me if they have so much time dedicated for it.

Except next to no "AAA" companies are going to be willing to invest in a market with very few consumers, other than first parties or games with a significantly low budget that can still be profited from. Also, the idea that AAA games will be the games that are the most meaningful and compelling or worthy of being great games, is definitely wrong thus far. Some of the simple things have been the most successful, such as tilt brush - a "game" that is simply painting in 3D, has seen such good response that Google bought them following the response - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzoHRlUqBBc

But in order for Morpheus to succeed it needs mainstream software to support it. Tumble on the PS3 was great for the Playstation Move but it's not a game that will attract enough people to make the investment. Morpheus will be much more expensive than the Playstation Move so you need marketable titles to drive it.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Morpheus needs the next Wii Sports or Minecraft. Games that don't fit the "AAA" mold yet have massive mainstream appeal and longevity.

I think Media Molecule will provide such a game.
 

JCizzle

Member
But in order for Morpheus to succeed it needs mainstream software to support it. Tumble on the PS3 was great for the Playstation Move but it's not a game that will attract enough people to make the investment. Morpheus will be much more expensive than the Playstation Move so you need marketable titles to drive it.

Yep, this is exactly my point. Without mainstream support, this will become just another niche product that gathers dust in people's living rooms after they get sick of the novelty games after a week.
 
$299.99 with the camera and two Move controllers.
I think $200 could be achievable. AFAIK, the tech inside it really isn't that complicated or expensive, and Sony have said they plan to sell the device at cost. (Compare to someone like HTC, who likely want to turn a healthy profit on each headset they sell, since they won't be getting a direct cut of every Vive game sold.)

Does VR translate well at conferences? I think this is something you have to try yourself, not watch others try it. That's what worries me if they have so much time dedicated for it.
I don't see how watching someone play a VR game on stage would be any less interesting than watching them play any other game on stage. Sure, VR is better when you're experiencing it yourself, but again, probably true of all games.

But in order for Morpheus to succeed it needs mainstream software to support it. Tumble on the PS3 was great for the Playstation Move but it's not a game that will attract enough people to make the investment. Morpheus will be much more expensive than the Playstation Move so you need marketable titles to drive it.
Really, I think this is the most significant aspect of the report, which seems to have been overlooked by most here.

"Video games on display are said to be ‘first-party and exclusive Morpheus titles’ only, meaning anything also appearing on the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive won’t be featured."

We already know about a lot of games coming to Morpheus, but most of those games were already announced for PC. So, it sounds like not only will Sony be showing a ton of VR content, everything they show will be on PlayStation, and nowhere else. When coupled with the general affordability of Morpheus when compared to the PC solutions, this is going to be a huge feather in Sony's cap.


Except next to no "AAA" companies are going to be willing to invest in a market with very few consumers, other than first parties or games with a significantly low budget that can still be profited from. Also, the idea that AAA games will be the games that are the most meaningful and compelling or worthy of being great games, is definitely wrong thus far. Some of the simple things have been the most successful, such as tilt brush - a "game" that is simply painting in 3D, has seen such good response that Google bought them following the response - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzoHRlUqBBc
I was actually thinking about that too. We know all of the big marketing deals are now going to Sony, and it's assumed those deals will include the timed exclusivity on DLC that has become typical of these deals. What if timed exclusivity isn't what Sony are asking for in return for the marketing time? What if instead, they ask developers to create Morpheus-exclusive content for their game? Not necessarily being able to play the entire game in VR, but rather, just a stand-alone, DLC-type adventure/scenario which is done in VR. Think, inFamous: First Light, or The Last of Us: Left Behind. That seems like it would be more of a benefit to Sony and their users than "early" access to conventional DLC.

----------------------

Now, maybe VR will never really take off, but if it does, I really do think Sony are best poised to lead the charge. First, there's the question of affordability. By the time Morpheus launches, the PS4 itself may only be $299. As I said, I think they can do a Morpheus starter kit for $199, but even if it's $299, that's still only $600 for the complete package. Even if they total $700, that's still less than half of the $1500 that Oculus said a complete Rift package will cost. So if I'm starting from scratch, I can either get a complete Rift rig, or I can get a complete Morpheus rig plus a second complete rig for my wife plus a bunch of software to go with it. Hell, I might be able to get a third Morpheus rig for the price of a single Rift rig. That's a pretty compelling value proposition, even if the games don't look quite as nice as they do on the Rift. Plus, by that point, there will be ~40M PS4s in the wild, and the barrier to entry is even lower for those individuals. By comparison, I don't think there will be nearly as many gaming rigs already equipped with a 970 or better, so more of the people who go the PC route will indeed be starting from scratch, more or less.

And speaking of software, again, it sounds like Sony are getting ready to show tons of Morpheus-exclusive content at E3. So not only will there be tons of support for the device, all of the stuff they'll be showing won't look better on the Rift, because it won't be appearing on the Rift/Vive at all. Again, a strong argument in favor of Morpheus for anyone curious about VR.

----------------------

Morpheus needs the next Wii Sports or Minecraft. Games that don't fit the "AAA" mold yet have massive mainstream appeal and longevity.

I think Media Molecule will provide such a game.
Hear hear. Fingers crossed.
 
In researching Sony WebMAF developers on Linkedin I found this:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/danilomms said:
Currently working on a patent-pending extension that allows efficient VR 360 video live streaming.

Danilo is currently working on unannounced VR experiences for Sony Morpheus, Occulus and Google Cardboard.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
And speaking of software, again, it sounds like Sony are getting ready to show tons of Morpheus-exclusive content at E3. So not only will there be tons of support for the device, all of the stuff they'll be showing won't look better on the Rift, because it won't be appearing on the Rift/Vive at all. Again, a strong argument in favor of Morpheus for anyone curious about VR.
You're not even trying to disguise your cheerleading at this point.
 
Morpheus needs the next Wii Sports or Minecraft. Games that don't fit the "AAA" mold yet have massive mainstream appeal and longevity.

I think Media Molecule will provide such a game.

Yeah, they need a game that also works for TV commercials. It will be quite tough illustrating the benefits of VR on a regular TV screen, making everyone want to buy a VR set.

For the same reason the VR section of Sony's presser may be quite boring. On a big screen, they'll just look like sub-mediocre 1st person games... The more important are those VR booths were people can try it out, resulting in a positive word-of-mouth.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Minecraft cannot be demonstrated in a commercial, in a trailer or anything like that and yet it still turned into a monster, 'killer app' hit.

This craze over *needing* this 'killer app' right away is way overblown anyways. You can have enough compelling content to grow interest without needing an instant 'mass appeal' billion-seller hit on Day 1.
 
You're not even trying to disguise your cheerleading at this point.
Err, wouldn't that be dishonest? =/

So, do you disagree that Sony are best poised here? What was the purpose of your post, exactly? All I'm really getting from your post is, "I'm feeling butt-hurt because Sony is gonna 'win,' so I decided to lash out at you in retaliation." So what exactly is your problem here? My refusal to "admit" that PCs provide the best gaming solution for most users? My insistence that people should stop supporting MS and their blatantly anti-competitive and anti-consumer business practices? Advising people to go with what I determine to be the best solution for their needs?

Whom, in your opinion, should I be pretending to be instead of myself? What lies would you have me tell, exactly? Who benefits from such pretense? Certainly not me, nor the people I'd be lying to.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Err, wouldn't that be dishonest? =/

So, do you disagree that Sony are best poised here? What was the purpose of your post, exactly? All I'm really getting from your post is, "I'm feeling butt-hurt because Sony is gonna 'win,' so I decided to lash out at you in retaliation." So what exactly is your problem here? My refusal to "admit" that PCs provide the best gaming solution for most users? My insistence that people should stop supporting MS and their blatantly anti-competitive and anti-consumer business practices? Advising people to go with what I determine to be the best solution for their needs?

Whom, in your opinion, should I be pretending to be instead of myself? What lies would you have me tell, exactly? Who benefits from such pretense? Certainly not me, nor the people I'd be lying to.
The fact that you're so concerned about 'the competition' and who is gonna win, and constantly trying to cheerlead for one side while downplaying the others when possible - this isn't you just being fair and noting what you think the landscape is, it's you plain old participating in platform wars crap. Sorry if I'm not impressed by it.

Frankly, this idea that Sony is 'gonna win' seems so laughable to me anyways. For one, two different platforms and two different markets. Two, consumer VR headsets aren't even available outside GearVR and you're already trying to proclaim a king of the entire medium? Come on. Three, do you not realize that PC will have exclusive content as well? :/

There's a lot of benefits to a lot of different platforms and I can see them all(console, mobile, PC)co-existing and benefiting from each other in the end. I actually *want* to see VR do well on PS4. I own a PS4 and I'm quite enthusiastic about VR so why I wouldn't I be? I don't see it as this huge competition like you do. That's the difference. The fact that you obviously aren't even in a frame of mind to think it was a possibility I(or anybody) could see things like that is just about as telling as it could be.
 
Brace yourselfs, 30FPS lovers, VR is coming and you are out of luck.

you really think Morpheus games is gonna have flawless 60/120fps VR? I'd love to be optimistic, but I believe more than few developer will end up missing their target framerate. it's not like developer is targeting sub30 fps on normal console games either, but they often missed that target too. unless Sony had a mandate or requirement that VR games will need to be locked 60fps or the game won't pass certification, I expect we're gonna get sub 60fps VR games on our hand.

really all we can do is simply make a fuss about it, maybe bad reviews from the media, with no guarantee that the dev will fixed it post launch or not. some people will make an excuse for it, or reason that it's not that bad, it's still playable etc, and sooner or later, sub60fps VR games will be the norm.

:(
 

Seanspeed

Banned
you really think Morpheus games is gonna have flawless 60/120fps VR?
Mostly yea. I think you'd be surprised at what developers can do when performance is an actual top priority rather than a secondary thought after a graphics target has been reached.

I also think Sony would be wise to just plain reject certification to any games that don't meet strict performance guidelines for Morpheus support. Bad VR experiences, even 3rd party, would lead to negative associations with the technology in general, and that's exactly what needs to be avoided.
 
I will be severely rustled if they spend the majority of the conference talking about Morpheus. Morpheus is cool and all, but I think VR will only make it big in the next gen... Seems impossible for VR to take full potential given the PS4's current 'underpowered' hardware.

Dont become arrogant like MS or Sony 2006 again :(
 

Pez

Member
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(
 
In researching Sony WebMAF developers on Linkedin I found this:

its unfortunate this brilliant post was followed by "console warz" baiting bollocks from seanspeed.

Thank you for your efforts jeff.

back on topic: danilo's group are probably investigating new forms of visual media suited to VR entertainment. I immediately think of digital escape to alien worlds and ASMR content, Music concerts and so forth.
 
Minecraft cannot be demonstrated in a commercial, in a trailer or anything like that and yet it still turned into a monster, 'killer app' hit.

This craze over *needing* this 'killer app' right away is way overblown anyways. You can have enough compelling content to grow interest without needing an instant 'mass appeal' billion-seller hit on Day 1.

The tech itself is the killer app.
 
I see VR doing well but personally I'm still much more interested in AR and what MS brings to the table with hololens. Seems like a more solid concept in my mind as opposed to cutting me off from the real world visually I can put a presence of things into my world.
I don't see how AR would have more gaming potential than VR. AR looks like a great concept for kid's toys, meh, just don't see what's exciting about it at all, seemed very gimmicky.

Oh they are. I had them the moment they came out. Boxed for years since I was 15 years old and when I played that fight game, I felt extremely limited, it was just plain bad. The limitations, the lack of precision, the unresponsiveness, it was all very, very bad. Went on the play other games with it and always had the same opinion. Sold them not too long after. Should I really specify it's my opinion though for you to not feel somewhat offended by it?
You should, because Sports champions was one of the most accurate 1:1 motion control experience I've ever had. You either don't know how to calibrate or you just had faulty controllers because Move's responsiveness and accuracy is top notch.
 

Canucked

Member
I am all for some Morpheus in the press event IF they have real games to show.

If it's one game and a whole bunch of tech concept renders, and rubber ducks, then five minutes, tops. Please.
 

Stacey

Banned
It has to be Gran Turismo 7 to showcase Morpheus to the masses, it just has to be.

What other AAA title would work as well as this game on the show floor?

Hopefully followed up by me waking from that nightmare in a cold sweat.

Nintendogs mini game involving Riley from Ghosts, just imagine it for 1 second. wow.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(

Apparently the Vive has managed to fix most of the issues which were causing motion sickness for people, so good news for you. There are still problems with some types of controller-based movement though. Alternatives are being worked on.
 
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(

You what? That was a horrible, horrific choice. No, many people will get sick from playing games that weren't designed for VR. A number of different effects can cause such sickness, and only some of them will be eliminated with better hardware. Some are inherent to how experiences are designed, and
that means shoehorning normal videogames into VR experiences will be nausea inducing for many.

:/
 
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(

Now you understand why you really need VR experiences developed with it in mind. This isn't like 3D games where you could essentially make any game 3D without very many issues. Not every game will work with it (Cod in VR? Good luck and bring your barf bag.)

I would recommend something gentler, especially if it is your first time. Try Sightlines The Chair or Titans of Space.

As for the resolution, that's why both the Rift and Vive are going higher rest. However, the screen door effect is actually a lot more complicated than just resolution. Sub-pixel arrangement and the lenses have a big effect on the "perceived resolution". DK2 is the same resolution as Morpheus, which is why I'm slightly disappointed, but it will be fine since there are tricks they can use to make it seem better.
 
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(

Damn son didn't you know you need to take it easy your first go? Gotta take 5 min bursts with any walking (controller) demos starting out imo. Need to build a tolerance to that vestibular disconnect. I'd recommend cockpit only experiences for your next go at it. Elite: Dangerous, Vox Machinae, Lunar Flight, these are all good and run pretty smoothly on a decent setup. Don't give up on it yet!
 
Now, maybe VR will never really take off, but if it does, I really do think Sony are best poised to lead the charge. First, there's the question of affordability. By the time Morpheus launches, the PS4 itself may only be $299. As I said, I think they can do a Morpheus starter kit for $199, but even if it's $299, that's still only $600 for the complete package. Even if they total $700, that's still less than half of the $1500 that Oculus said a complete Rift package will cost. So if I'm starting from scratch, I can either get a complete Rift rig, or I can get a complete Morpheus rig plus a second complete rig for my wife plus a bunch of software to go with it. Hell, I might be able to get a third Morpheus rig for the price of a single Rift rig. That's a pretty compelling value proposition, even if the games don't look quite as nice as they do on the Rift. Plus, by that point, there will be ~40M PS4s in the wild, and the barrier to entry is even lower for those individuals. By comparison, I don't think there will be nearly as many gaming rigs already equipped with a 970 or better, so more of the people who go the PC route will indeed be starting from scratch, more or less.
Yeah the Occulus/Vive PC set might end up costing more but you forget that bigger expense is due to having much more powerful specs than the PS4. And those better specs will translate into better graphical fidelity and larger experiences. So I have no doubt that PC VR will have their own exclusive games due to the inferior hardware of the PS4.
 

Bsigg12

Member
I feel like VR is a gimmick nobody knows will make them sick.

I setup my DK2 last night and after about 20 minutes of playing Half-Life: Source, I had a lingering sickness in my stomach that lasted for what felt like an hour.

Took me an hour and 1/2 to get the rift setup and after a solid 20 minutes of gameplay, I felt sick enough to never want to play VR again.

That, and the field of view/focus feels like looking though a pinhole. The loss of detail reminds me of what games would look like if they were running on a 3DS screen--it's that pixelated. =(

Playing a game that has injected VR camera control versus a game designed from the ground up will do that to you. If the framerate (maintaining a high, constant rate) and the time it takes a pixel to change (as short of a time as possible) is not adequate, you'll end up making people nauseous. That's why we see Oculus recommending such high end components for the Rift, it needs to be able to drive the 2160x1200 display at 90fps with little to no drops. The Vive will probably be similar in that by recommending these currently high end specs, they can ensure the experience is the best at what they say.

As far as Morpheus goes, as long as games are fully built from the ground up focusing on performance, people getting sick shouldn't happen. It's when you have a game with a fluctuating framerate where people get headaches and have other issues.

I can't wait to hear more impressions about the Morpheus on Tuesday when the show floor opens.
 
Can't help but feel Morpheus won't be anything special because bottlenecked by how powerful the PS4 is. I mean, the truly impressive Rift stuff still requires pretty beefy hardware, right? What games can the PS4 do if it doesn't have the power for anything special?
 
So stupid to devote any more than 10mins to VR at a press confrence. The audience cannot relate to what's going on, they're looking a TV showing the image the user is experience...sometimes twice to show what each eye is seeing. This means they're watching something that's actually worse than a normal videogame being demo'd.
It's boring. It's awkward. It's a waste of time.
Giving up half your booth space is a great idea, as you want as many people to experience it 1st had as possible.
Giving up half your confrence for it is stupid and will backfire.
 

Alx

Member
Now you understand why you really need VR experiences developed with it in mind. This isn't like 3D games where you could essentially make any game 3D without very many issues. Not every game will work with it (Cod in VR? Good luck and bring your barf bag.)

I would recommend something gentler, especially if it is your first time. Try Sightlines The Chair or Titans of Space.

As for the resolution, that's why both the Rift and Vive are going higher rest. However, the screen door effect is actually a lot more complicated than just resolution. Sub-pixel arrangement and the lenses have a big effect on the "perceived resolution". DK2 is the same resolution as Morpheus, which is why I'm slightly disappointed, but it will be fine since there are tricks they can use to make it seem better.

Maybe also why the common idea that "they just need to have demo booths at Best Buy and it will sell" may be a dangerous idea. If people try it and experience sickness on their first experience, they'll conclude "VR makes you sick" and never want to try it again.
It's a tricky thing to sell, you need to have people try it to be convinced, but you can't let them try anything unsupervised
I think for introduction, things like 360 movies would be better than full games.

Anyway, if Sony wants to be serious about VR, they need to push it a lot indeed. So many people complained that they didn't support Move and sent it to die.
 
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