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[JesseEwiak]

Handchecking was only allowed prior to the 90s because players were (relative to players of today) slow, unathletic and had no concept of playing defense with their feet.

Curry of today would have shredded the slow, lumbering Craig Ehlo's of the day even worse than MJ.

Yup. Actually go back and watch a game from the vaunted 80's and 90's. Teams played hard defense...for the last six minutes of the half or game. Simmons has talked about this multiple times. It's nostalgia for a game that actually never existed.

 

[Kastrioti]

people out here spinning in circles trying to downplay curry

yall need to sit back, relax, and enjoy greatness while it's still in front of you

Absolutely agree. Enjoy greatness while its here.

Still though I find the questions about Curry in 80-90's era defense interesting and worthy of a debate. Reggie Miller prospered and Curry is a much better all around player than Curry. But Reggie was 6'5, 6'6 ish while Curry is 6'3.

However there will never, ever, ever be as good a basketball player as Michael Jordan. He completely changed the game would be forever played and propelled basketball to the international level. Magic, Bird, Kareem and others helped but MJ took it to another level with shoes and highlights.

I hate using meme pics but undefeated in the finals.

The GOAT and there will never be another.

At the same time bask in the greatness that is Steph Curry and what's he's doing.

 

[theignoramus]

Handchecking always fixes that.

Victor Oladipo was pressing up on Curry as ferociously as he could. Curry took advantage by cutting the other direction for layups. Since defenders can’t just cede open layups, Curry used that threat to create a few of his 10 3-pointers.

“I've heard people say you need to take his space,” Curry’s trainer Brandon Payne said via phone after the game. “Well, if you get up tight on him, that's actually what we want you to do. We want you to get up tight on him because then it's going to open lanes to the basket when he plays off the high post.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/golden-state-warriors/post/_/id/1362/steph-currys-becoming-legendary

 

[Fennec]

What am I supposed to be seeing in that clip? Another wide open lane? At least this time there was a contest at the rim - it's not that it never happens, it just happens WAY less frequently than 25 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4#t=1m32s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVUXJ8Q7ehY#t=0m06s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVUXJ8Q7ehY#t=1m15s

Multiple defenders and bodies in the paint at all times. It's night and day to the point where I don't understand how anyone DOESN'T see it.

Oh boy I miss the early 90s NBA!

 

[hbkdx12]

people out here spinning in circles trying to downplay curry

yall need to sit back, relax, and enjoy greatness while it's still in front of you

This is the shit i don't understand and for most of my life has driven me away from following sports (The warriors run last year and this year has single handedly turned my interest)

The dude is doing amazing shit. Simple as that. Just appreciate it.

They're the defending champions armed with the reigning MVP and they're objectively playing better than they did the year before and they're constantly and effortlessly breaking all time records and making history in the process.

What's the point in trying to downplay it by making off base comparisons to teams and superstars of yesteryear? Just enjoy it for what it is and the fact that none of their current peers are performing at the same level.

 

[massivekettle]

However there will never, ever, ever be as good a basketball player as Michael Jordan. He completely changed the game would be forever played and propelled basketball to the international level

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

 

[Trey]

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

he's not jordan level and I don't think he can ever be, branding wise. Jordan launched multiple industries around his image - he irrevocably changed the entire brand identity of sports, never mind basketball. Curry will never have a "Jordan Brand" equivalent. And that's fine.

Curry definitely has a shot at changing the game of basketball itself like Jordan did, even if he never reaches Jordan's height in the extra curricular stuff.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

He will never be like Mike.

 

[LyleLanley]

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

Revitalizing the game?

 

[Blackhead]

However there will never, ever, ever be as good a basketball player as Michael Jordan. He completely changed the game would be forever played and propelled basketball to the international level. Magic, Bird, Kareem and others helped but MJ took it to another level with shoes and highlights.

Actually Team USA at Barcelona 92 olympics did it for basketball at the international level not Jordan per se.

he's not jordan level and I don't think he can ever be, branding wise. Jordan launched multiple industries around his image - he irrevocably changed the entire brand identity of sports, never mind basketball. Curry will never have a "Jordan Brand" equivalent. And that's fine.

Curry definitely has a shot at changing the game of basketball itself like Jordan did, even if he never reaches Jordan's height in the extra curricular stuff.

does anybody care about t he extracurricular stuff? You think David Beckham or Kournikova are called GOATs of their sports?

Anyway, obviously Jordan blew up the sneaker game but imo if Curry can elevate UnderArmour in a few years into the conversation with Nike, it will be a worthwhile extracurricular achievement

 

[Trey]

does anybody care about t he extracurricular stuff?

lol

 

[Blackhead]

lol

I mean Shaq had more movies, video games and rap records. Better than Magic/Bird obviously /s

 

[phanphare]

he's not jordan level and I don't think he can ever be, branding wise. Jordan launched multiple industries around his image - he irrevocably changed the entire brand identity of sports, never mind basketball. Curry will never have a "Jordan Brand" equivalent. And that's fine.

Curry definitely has a shot at changing the game of basketball itself like Jordan did, even if he never reaches Jordan's height in the extra curricular stuff.

once space jam 2 with steph comes out it'll be a done deal

 

[Fjordson]

people out here spinning in circles trying to downplay curry

yall need to sit back, relax, and enjoy greatness while it's still in front of you

It's really disappointing to see. Especially when the analysis / reasoning is so off-base and surface level.

But I think it could be just one of those things where people don't fully grasp something until it's gone. Hopefully fans and former players trying to downplay him will be able to take a step back eventually and appreciate what he's doing.

Like some of the "analysis" on this page...sweet jesus it's bad.

 

[LyleLanley]

once space jam 2 with steph comes out it'll be a done deal

Steph can't be the star of Space Jam 2. The climactic ending can't be a three point shot.

 

[Tubobutts]

Steph can't be the star of Space Jam 2. The climactic ending can't be a three point shot.

What if he shoots it from another planet?

 

[gcubed]

What if he shoots it from another planet?

can the monstars hand check him?

 

[LyleLanley]

What if he shoots it from another planet?

No. It has to be Zach Lavine or Aaron Gordon dunking from another planet.

 

[Stabby McSter]

What if he shoots it from another planet?

...did you just spoil space jam 2 for everyone

 

[Gully State]

can the monstars hand check him?

not in today's game, but they can play zone defense.

 

[phanphare]

Steph can't be the star of Space Jam 2. The climactic ending can't be a three point shot.

the climactic ending will be a twist that the monstars actually took steph's talent from him all along but he still won

 

[LionPride]

It is unfair that Wardell Stephen Curry Jr. exists on this Earth

 

[Stat Flow]

The fact that so much Jordan has permeated this thread says volumes about Curry.

3 years ago he wasn't even on the map (but was doing awesome stuff still) as a top 3/5 player. Now he's the undisputed best player in the league.

Everyone thought that Durant had next in terms of #1 player on the planet. That once LeBron started to exit his prime and Durant reached his peak, that he would be there. Then Anthony Davis' emergence brought about conversations as the #2/3 to Durant/Lebron (shoutouts to YNB for really actually being top 3/4 imo).

Now Curry is changing the game and bringing in viewers that hadn't watched for a while or have never watched it. There's even a thread with people who know nothing about sports basically saying "I want to understand the Curry Supernova"

And now all of this Jordan talk. Jordan is the GOAT. Let Curry be great. We are witnessing something we've never seen before.

 

[Nameless]

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

He would need to do this for more like 6 more years, winning championships in each, and become a Top 2 perimeter defender in the league.

 

[DerZuhälter]

So I missed all the Curry hype. Is he as good Leo Messi in football, pulverizing present and past metrics, or just the new hot kid on the block right now?

 

[Trey]

So I missed all the Curry hype. Is he as good Leo Messi in football, pulverizing present and past metrics, or just the new hot kid on the block right now?

he is redefining basketball and what it means to be an efficient scorer. "Pulverizing" doesn't seem an apt enough term.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

Curry is getting there. First, revitalizing the game at the domestic level, and then taking on the world.

If Curry goes on for another 3-5 years at that level, I think MJ will have company at the top of the GOAT list (or could arguably be surpassed).

At a numbers level it's always possible he can exceed MJ and be considered the greatest. Numbers make the strongest objective case for a players quality that we have. But in terms of playing style and spectacular plays that make highlight reels and play into legend and makes for memories ingrained in the minds of sports fans, then he will have some work to do there. Whether you agree with it or not, these things also play a part in what makes a player GOAT. I marvel at Curry's accuracy and his ability to create space. And his ability to drive to the lane and finish is also strong. But I think his style lacks the physicality and fierceness that some people find attractive in their athletes, but that's what makes his style of play so effective: efficient, intelligent, safe.

 

[Gully State]

So I missed all the Curry hype. Is he as good Leo Messi in football, pulverizing present and past metrics, or just the new hot kid on the block right now?

 

[LionPride]

So I missed all the Curry hype. Is he as good Leo Messi in football, pulverizing present and past metrics, or just the new hot kid on the block right now?

He is destroying eveything as a 6'3 PG. He is already arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history. He is about to shatter his own 3 Point record

 

[GatorBait]

You import the 1980's Pistons or first three-peat Bulls into a modern game against the Warriors and they'll be spending half the game wondering why everyone is standing outside the arc and shooting from there.

In 1991, all the teams combined took 586 three point attempts. (And made 187.) Stephen Curry has already taken 584 threes by himself this season. (And made 266.)

This is wrong. You read the stat chart incorrectly. 187 3PM and 586 3PA were the overall average of each team in the league. The Denver Nuggets alone took over 1,000 3-pointers in 1991.

 

[theignoramus]

Dude is breaking the game of basketball as we know it, folks out there are having to readjust their perspective on how the game ought to be played and they damn sure dont like it.
So we get shit like "now hold on a minute...back in the day teams would have done this, that and the third to stop Curry"

Umm, no they'd have tried to rough him up, headhunt him, whatever and hed still drop 28 a night on 'em. Mark Price, (one of the better old school comparisons to Steph) at his peak was dropping 20 a game, 40% from three, averaging 2 made three pointers a game.
Steph shoots 45% from deep and averages over double that amount, hitting 5 made threes a game, most of them off the dribble.

I think we can safely assume he would be among the league leaders in points per game "back in the day"

 

[Dr.Acula]

But I think his style lacks the physicality and fierceness that some people find attractive in their athletes, but that's what makes his style of play so effective: efficient, intelligent, safe.

Safe is the last thing I'd ever feel while watching Curry bring up the ball against my team. Reggie Miller became a superstar off the dagger 3, Steph is doing it the same way here.

 

[massivekettle]

Revitalizing the game?

Bringing in a ton of casual fan and mindshare.

 

[theignoramus]

At a numbers level it's always possible he can exceed MJ and be considered the greatest. Numbers make the strongest objective case for a players quality that we have. But in terms of playing style and spectacular plays that make highlight reels and play into legend and makes for memories ingrained in the minds of sports fans, then he will have some work to do there. Whether you agree with it or not, these things also play a part in what makes a player GOAT. I marvel at Curry's accuracy and his ability to create space. And his ability to drive to the lane and finish is also strong. But I think his style lacks the physicality and fierceness that some people find attractive in their athletes, but that's what makes his style of play so effective: efficient, intelligent, safe.

Dude is underrated as a passer, hes top 5 in the league. Part of the reason the Warriors have so many turnovers (and anyone who watches Warriors game can attest to this) is because Steph throws passes you dont expect to be thrown and his teammates boggle the catch.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Guys, when people talk about the defense in previous eras, they're referring to all the hand checking and physicality in the paint which impeded smaller and quicker players from slashing and penetrating the paint for layups. The game relied on the mod range jumpers and post ups by bigs for offense closer to the basket.

What curry is doing is breaking the game of basketball. He is shooting efficiently from pretty much anywhere past the half court line. The game isn't designed for such absurdity. It is set up so that each team had an offensive zone where they operate in, marked by the half court line (hence the backcourt violation rule). And within this zone, they set up positioning and commit to an approach strategy. As they approach closer to the basket, it eventually becomes more efficient for them to commit to a scoring attempt rather than an approwch, based on their individual and team skills.

When you can move the range of a player's scoring efficiency out to half court, it fundamentally breaks the game. It's like if a kicker could hit a field goal reliably from 70-80 yards out.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

Safe is the last thing I'd ever feel while watching Curry bring up the ball against my team. Reggie Miller became a superstar off the dagger 3, Steph is doing it the same way here.

Safe in terms of personal safety. His play style has a lower chance of getting injured, he's not slashing to the rim into a crowded field where he could get fouled hard and injured, he's not playing a post up game that requires a lot of banging. He doesn't have to. I could see him being a top 5 player well into his 30's.

 

[Ketch]

Anybody got a gif of him missing a three pointer? I just want to know that he's human.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

Guys, when people talk about the defense in previous eras, they're referring to all the hand checking and physicality in the paint which impeded smaller and quicker players from slashing and penetrating the paint for layups. The game relied on the mod range jumpers and post ups by bigs for offense closer to the basket.

What curry is doing is breaking the game of basketball. He is shooting efficiently from pretty much anywhere past the half court line. The game isn't designed for such absurdity. It is set up so that each team had an offensive zone where they operate in, marked by the half court line (hence the backcourt violation rule). And within this zone, they set up positioning and commit to an approach strategy. As they approach closer to the basket, it eventually becomes more efficient for them to commit to a scoring attempt rather than an approwch, based on their individual and team skills.

When you can move the range of a player's scoring efficiency out to half court, it fundamentally breaks the game. It's like if a kicker could hit a field goal reliably from 70-80 yards out.

Hand checks were also employed at near the 3 point line to cut off a player if they'd happened to bear you off the dribble. This means that you could also "check" them, keep tabs on them, if they happen to go in any direction away from you. A small hand check was able to move the player off the path they wanted, super effective. I imagine it would've given Curry some trouble. Hand checks were great for man on man defense

Edit. Often that hand check would get the players hip, provide a twist and light shove and you're slightly directing the player to where you want him to go. May not have been entire legal but it was done quite a lot

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Anybody got a gif of him missing a three pointer? I just want to know that he's human.

He missed the first shot!

Of course, he then makes the second one immediately after with a higher degree of difficulty.

 

[theignoramus]

Mark Price Highlights
Price was an assistant for the Warriors for the 2010-2011 season, seems he gave Steph some pointers.
The similarities between the two are unnerving, especially the accurate bullet passes, delivered off the dribble at a 3/4 or full speed sprint.

 

[Anth0ny]

once space jam 2 with steph comes out it'll be a done deal

once steph wins another 3 or 4 rings they'd be crazy not to

 

[LyleLanley]

once steph wins another 3 or 4 rings they'd be crazy not to

Just another 3 or 4?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Hand checks were also employed at near the 3 point line to cut off a player if they'd happened to bear you off the dribble. This means that you could also "check" them, keep tabs on them, if they happen to go in any direction away from you. A small hand check was able to move the player off the path they wanted, super effective. I imagine it would've given Curry some trouble. Hand checks were great for man on man defense

Edit. Often that hand check would get the players hip, provide a twist and light shove and you're slightly directing the player to where you want him to go. May not have been entire legal but it was done quite a lot

the Warriors are good with screens, and curry has an insanely quick release. And he is a great pasaer.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Just another 3 or 4?

after his first three or four, of course

 

[Nafai1123]

According to Oscar Robertson NBA teams have just forgotten how to play defense....cause you know putting two guys on Steph in the backcourt as soon as he has the ball would be sooooo effective with his ball handling and passing abilities.

I find it hilarious that these older players (Robertson, Barkley) downplay what Curry is doing, as if Curry being so dominant makes their careers less impressive in hindsight.

Curry is a generational talent. Let's just enjoy watching him play while we can. History will show us just how good he really is.

 

[phanphare]

According to Oscar Robertson NBA teams have just forgotten how to play defense....cause you know putting two guys on Steph in the backcourt as soon as he has the ball would be sooooo effective with his ball handling and passing abilities.

I find it hilarious that these older players (Robertson, Barkley) downplay what Curry is doing, as if Curry being so dominant makes their careers less impressive in hindsight.

Curry is a generational talent. Let's just enjoy watching him play while we can. History will show us just how good he really is.

some of those old dudes are just salty

meanwhile from allen iverson

That light skinned dude…I never seen anything like this in my life, because I was a certified serial killer, but this dude has it all. He got the jumper, his handles is what it is. This dude right here is unreal.

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/...ght-i-was-a-serial-killer-this-dude-is-unreal

 

[theignoramus]

Larry Bird gave Steph props too, says he's probably the GOAT shooter. Charles Barkley is an old man yelling at the clouds.

 

[Gully State]

Hearing Oscar talk about Curry made me remember the stuff that Bill Simmons wrote about him in his book. Dude was supposedly the biggest jerk during his career (Bill gives Oscar the pass because of the period of time he played in though)

Excerpt- great read on the man who averaged a triple double.

Book was published awhile ago but I thought the bolded is very pertinent

Oscar’s demanding personality overwhelmed everyone around him. After his playing career ended and CBS jettisoned him in 1975, nobody hired him as a coach, general manager, broadcaster, or adviser for the next thirty-four years (and counting). He resurfaced occasionally as the Grumpy Old Superstar in any story comparing the good old days to whatever was happening in the current era.5 You could always rely on one churlish Oscar quote about how today’s players make too much money; how he never could have palmed the ball so blatantly back in his day; how he would have loved to have played in an era of charter planes, personal trainers and low expectations; how today’s triple doubles didn’t matter because you could get an assist for anything nowadays. Every Oscar quote makes it sound like Dana Carvey should be playing him with Robert Downey Jr.’s Tropic Thunder makeup. Back in my day, I used to get triple doubles playing in bad sneakers with nails sticking out of the floor and fans throwing stuff at me and I loved it! There’s just enough evidence that Oscar was an insufferable curmudgeon that he vacillated as high as no. 6 and as low as no. 12 for my Pantheon over a three-month span, ultimately settling here.

 

[charsace]

Curry is a monster for sure, but what Jordan could do from midrange in the post and around the basket slashing is something curry can't match though Jordan can't match Curry's 3 PT off the dribble. Off ball movement is a wash. Would love to have seen prime Payton d up Curry.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

some of those old dudes are just salty

meanwhile from allen iverson



https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/...ght-i-was-a-serial-killer-this-dude-is-unreal

My idol Bubba Chuck doesn't lie. I do think a lot of older players are salty about curry and the newer generation. For instance Westbrook would demolish any guard from the 90's with ease. Although some arguing that curry can surpass Mike gotta chill.