LyleLanley
Banned
He can, that doesn't mean he will though.
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Steph Curry Supernova
- Thread starter Stat Flow
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He can, that doesn't mean he will though.
from the answer himself...
But I don't think we should completely downplay what Oscar said. Albeit he is ignoring Curry's skill, I think there is something to be said about the defense level of play in the NBA currently.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Heh, SB Nation just posted an article stating teams have been already trying to do the things he's been saying:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/2/26/11119490/stephen-curry-score-highlights-oscar-robertson-wrong
I think we should absolutely downplay what oscar said
mostly because it's bonkers
he said that coaches today don't understand the game of basketball
irony at its finest
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Oscar is stuck in the past. It's the same old 'back in the good ol days!' garbage we hear without any evidence to back it up.
That article does a great job of demonstrating that teams try what Oscar suggested....it just doesn't work.
Curry "Gravity" is a real thing and honestly I don't know how teams can protect against it. Even if he's just standing 30ft out he makes opportunities for others because defenses are just that scared of giving him an open look.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Another article that should put what Curry's doing in perspective:
http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/...is-crushing-it-like-wilt-gretzky-and-the-babe
http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/...is-crushing-it-like-wilt-gretzky-and-the-babe
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Par for the course when you have people downplaying Jordan's accomplishments by stating Kukoc and Kerr were great players.
Frozenprince
Banned
Uuuuuuuuuh they weren't?
MJ is the GOAT everybody knows that, but Spicy absolutely has the chance to catch him, just like Bron did.
Curry has little chance of catching Jordan - he's just too far behind on the # of all-time seasons he has under his belt (two so far - and honestly, his season last year would lose out to basically any season of Jordan's in a Bull's uniform).
If he can maintain his current level for another 4-5 years while winning a total of 3+ titles and 3+ MVP's, it would make him top 8-9 at a minimum. Longevity isn't everything, but to crack the top 5 all-time you do need at least 8-10 all-time level seasons. 8 on the low side provided you have the other accomplishments.
Let's not even talk about how Jordan (and KAJ and Wilt, Lebron, Duncan etc.) shit on Curry defensively from a great height. These guys were legit game-changers on defense. So even if his offensive peak is equal or even slightly greater than the best we've seen from MJ/Lebron/KAJ/Wilt, the enormous gap on defense means he isn't on that level.
The only issue I have is that it's kind of a specialized shot. He's playing within a system that allows him to shoot a lot of 3s. It's especially not comparable to hockey, where Gretzky isn't choosing what "kind" of goal to score. I don't think Curry shooting 3s is necessarily more valuable than Shaq dunking in traffic, drawing fouls, and getting rebounds, just different.
Let's not forget Jordan over his career earned Finals MVP, All-NBA Defensive First Team, and NBA Defensive Player of the Year, in addition to being All-NBA First Team and leading the league in scoring. Curry still needs to get Finals MVP, doesn't look like he'll ever get DPotY, probably not a first team all-defense, and hasn't yet won a scoring title (he's on pace).
So everyone just calm down a bit. He's the best in the world right now, but Penny, Rose, T-Mac, those guys all had the world at their feet at one point or another. That's why Kobe and Jordan are so revered, they had sustained periods of dominance. Curry's had one of the best 20-month runs in history for sure, but let's slow down on the Gretzky/Jordan/Babe/Wilt comparisons.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
No, they weren't. I watched MJ and the Bulls 3-peat twice during middle and high school.
All I ever heard about the Bulls were:
1. MJ is a ball-hog, Bulls only win because MJ doesn't play a team game
2. Without Pippen, MJ is nothing
3. Refs gave calls to MJ
Now, 20 years later, somehow MJ surrounded himself with great players such as Cartwright, Paxson, Kukoc, and Kerr.
Why do people act like Curry is 33? Dude is 27. He could potentially do this for another 5 years. It's not like his game is predicated on slashing to the rim d wade or d rose style, with massive wear and tear on his body.
Yea. I get its unbelievable that he's doing it now. But that's the point. What if this is just how he plays from now on? Read when I started this thread and my closing original remarks ("I know he will cool off eventually")...I just didn't believe that it was sustainable, this accuracy. Nobody did. We were wrong.
Yea. I get its unbelievable that he's doing it now. But that's the point. What if this is just how he plays from now on? Read when I started this thread and my closing original remarks ("I know he will cool off eventually")...I just didn't believe that it was sustainable, this accuracy. Nobody did. We were wrong.
I didn't know we went to school together.
Remember how hot the slutty art teacher was?
Also I am glad we can still both agree that Jordan ain't shit.
Love Steph but let's wait another 5 years before we crown his ass. And it is dumb to compare different eras. Steph is the best player for this era of the NBA. Shooters have a lot more value when you allow a zone defense and centers and big men become less valued because it becomes so easy to stuff the paint.
See you at the reunion!
Epsilon-delta
Banned
To followup on Curry's accomplishments, I think what he is doing in this season is absolutely great and spectacular basketball.
Like always, time will only tell how great of a player Curry ends up being in the long run.
Like always, time will only tell how great of a player Curry ends up being in the long run.
I don't see Curry slowing down. Think he was hampered by injuries early on, but once that was over he started his ascent. He's always had this in him, or something close to it.
Even in college the dude was incredible. The fact that he's the only person on the top 25 list of made 3's in NCAA history to play less than 4 years is hilarious. And it's not like he's limping in at #25, he's #8!
Even in college the dude was incredible. The fact that he's the only person on the top 25 list of made 3's in NCAA history to play less than 4 years is hilarious. And it's not like he's limping in at #25, he's #8!
Haha, so true.
In 20 years we're gonna start seeing stuff like "Kobe would have never won 4 & 5 without Pau Gasol!"
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
This is some cherry picking if I have ever seen it lol. If you watch Curry play, since college, he has an amazing ability to finish with both hands while drawing contact in packed lanes etc. Of course he is going to have more spacing usually because the warriors have good outside shooters. Are you trying to say that in the 80s, teams would just ignore the outside shooters to clamp down on Steph? You are saying things about the way people used to defend without taking into account anything that the warriors do. Curry blows by people becaue they have to play way up on him basically from the moment he crosses half court, and team don't pack the lanes because he is an excellent passer and he will find a teammate for an open three. I really don't understand what point you are trying to get across, or why you are trying to downplay Curry's season.
People already say that.
Kobe and Phil needed another all-star for sure. Pau filled a role, I wouldn't say he was the key.
Dreams-Visions
Member
And they wouldn't have been wrong either.
Might I remind you of who single-handedly reduced arguably the most dominant player in the game that year (Dwight Howard) to his personal bitch in the NBA Finals?
Pau Gasol
Epsilon-delta
Banned
You know as well as I do that this was said during the Bull's historic run, from East Coast to West Coast.
The hate was strong throughout during that time.
And yeah, I know I dated myself with my post lol.
darkazcura
Member
I can tell you more Celtic fans hate/were scared of Pau by the end of the 2010 Finals than Kobe. Pau broke the Celtics' back in that series and made timely baskets and rebounds over and over. He should have won the MVP in that series. I still have nightmares about the rebounding clinic Pau put on Garnett for the last half of the series. It was domination, and it pains me to say that as a Celtic fan. Gasol was absolutely snubbed out of the MVP.
So yeah, I don't really see an issue with people believing Kobe wouldn't have won without Pau. It's a team sport. They needed each other, but I wouldn't diminish Pau's contributions with him just 'filling a role.'
I didn't watch the 2009 finals as closely with the Pau vs Howard matchup, but I'd assume he was pretty damn important also.
Hey Pippen needed the other role players like Kerr and Grant to win his titles. And no one was better than Jordan at taking all the credit or being a little bitch so everyone had their role. It's a team game.
theignoramus
Member
What are you on about? Tom Thibadeau's defensive strategies have changed the way teams play D. D is more complex and sophisticated than ever. Maybe you should watch a playoff game and understand how difficult it is to score or even get off a quality shot when an elite defensive team decides to clamp down.
Last year the Cavs basically put the clamps on Steph Curry for the majority of the Finals. I believe thats the reason hes so much better this year, because he knew he underperformed in that Finals series and hit the gym HARD.
Well that's true
Lakers ain't winning shit if the alternative fix from Mitch Kupchak is to acquire Luol Deng or Carlos Boozer.
NoctisVsStar
Member
People have a lot of selective memory..History doesn't remember how Artest practically won and bailed out Kobe during game 7 of 2010 finals ;P
Pau completely outplayed Howard, so you're pretty much on the money.
Eh, Kobe grabbed key rebounds, Pau made important plays, and Ron made a clutch 3 down the wire. It was a team effort through and through.
Considering Curry isn't good due to being a physical specimen, I think it's too early to tell how long his prime will last. Much of his game isn't predicated on physicality, but finesse.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Are you attempting to suggest that Pau Gasol on those teams was akin to a standard-issue role-player?
I think it's entirely accurate to say that MJ doesn't win many (or any) of his rings without Pippen. That doesn't make him any less than the greatest to ever do it; it just makes it clear that as you said, it's a team game. But one carried by its team's superstars.
So yes, Kobe wouldn't have even sniffed those last 2 rings without Pau. Those 2 carried that team to the Finals. Pau was exceptional all year long and his performance on offense and defense against D. Howard was his crowning achievement. You can revise Pau in your mind to a simple role player if you want to. I'll leave you alone on that island in that case.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Kobe played horribly but it was a team effort.
People like Big O saying why teams doesn't just play higher defense all the time on Steph made me laugh.
We already seen that, we seeing team try to double him from 35 feet to just let them killed by open shot from that space provided, if you seeing Draymond Green got high amount of assist its mostly came from absurd double team from way high of field that Steph caused.
We already seen that, we seeing team try to double him from 35 feet to just let them killed by open shot from that space provided, if you seeing Draymond Green got high amount of assist its mostly came from absurd double team from way high of field that Steph caused.
theignoramus
Member
Bean doesnt make players around him better. He may be the second greatest shooter guard ever, but that man was always a ball dominant, me first gunner, who needed more selfless guys around him to facilitate team play.
Hes a caustic man from a different era of basketball, the new era is all about east to west ball movement in the half court and high efficiency shooting.
Haha he had an abysmal shooting night for sure.
Michael Jordan's first championship was when he was 28. I'm not saying the warriors are going to go one to have two three peats. But saying Curry is too old already doesn't make much sense.
for as great as curry is, we not gonna call him spicy.
it's just not gonna happen. no
All I am saying is Jordan wasn't shit.
I wonder when we do start seeing out of the box defenses tried against the Warriors. I mean what do you got to lose? I know it's harder to cheat towards a player that isn't parked on the block but Steph definitely deserves the same sort of defensive gravity that 99-03 Shaq had. We might be to the point where you actually have a better chance with 3 defenders against Klay, Dray, Iggy, and Barnes.
teams do this all the time, lol
Steph is frequently doubled 30 ft out. He just whips it to draymond or bogut, the defense rotates to klay and steph, and it usually results in a barnes three or a Draymond dunk.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It really is like watching NFL teams try to stop a young Mike Vick. The only things that stopped Mike were injuries and dogs. The only thing that stops Steph from a 3-5 year reign of terror is health.
Cavs and some other teams have tried that, I do think that's probably the lesser of the two evils when playing Golden State.
Still fails a lot though since Draymond just picks apart defenses when it's 4 on 3.
theignoramus
Member
The problem is Klay Thompson is a top 3 jumpshooter in the league and Barnes can hit threes too. You literally pick the manner of your execution playing this team. Warriors one kryptonite is a PG that just goes the fuck off on Steph, like Dame Lillard did last week.
Michael Vick was the prototype. Russell Wilson is basically Vick if he was also an accurate thrower, and Wilson is nowhere near as dominant as Curry currently is.
not that he has to be, he's a top 5 QB in the league.
My posts were predicated on ONLY Curry (not his whole team) being transported to that era.
Again, if we transport Curry in a vacuum 25-30 years ago, he wouldn't have that spacing because no one (besides himself) was shooting that much or that well from deep. So yes, the lanes would be packed, you'd have multiple big men inside, and his primary defender would be able to play him as a shooter, and would do a much better job of it than defenders today due to handchecking etc. (plus, again, defenders today can't play him strictly as a shooter for reasons previously mentioned).
If you want to believe that Curry - not a great athlete and only 6'3" in size, is going to A) get in the lane as frequently as he can today, and B) finish over legit bigs like DRob/Dream/Shaq/Mutombo/Zo etc. at a 65%+ clip like he does today, then that's on you. But it's a fantasy. Again, there's a reason no player under 6'6" was dominant in the paint back then besides hyper athletes like Jordan, Drexler etc. Curry would have next to no inside game back then, and teams would play him as a shooter. 23-26 pts/6-7 ast/60-63% TS best case scenario for him. Still an all time great, but none of the hyperbole we see today.
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