TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
So you're happy for other people's experiences to be limited for no actual advantage to yourself, and this is a reasonable position because..?
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GI.biz: Microsoft needs to clarify gaming vision (UWP)
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
So you're happy for other people's experiences to be limited for no actual advantage to yourself, and this is a reasonable position because..?
Dinky Dino
Member
I don't think they will relinquish those users. It seems more like they want to combine their two userbases under windows. In the end consoles are just hardware under a closed ecosystem running the company's choice of os.
Imo, they will release a windows 10 like console that's even closer to a pc but with all the UWP and typical console restrictions. Sony and MS make too much cash off online subs to let it go. In addition, by unifying both userbases, the benefits of pc created content can easily be put on the user store. PC gives birth to stuff like minecraft that sells like hotcakes and UWP streamlines the process. So that's their end goal and its a good plan.
The only flaw is thinking pc users and devs would allow them to do as they please like on consoles.
wapplew
Member
No more malware!
GHG
Member
Nobody's forcing you to read these topics if it upsets you so much.
Step one: Install antivirus
Step two: Don't be a retard
Malware is easily avoidable these days. Only go to websites you trust and download from places you trust.
JohnnyWestlake
Banned
The idea is ease of use and security for everyone, including the vast realm of unknowledgable PC users - something that's a good goal to support.
At the end of the day, the UWP platform wasn't created for die-hard PC gamers. Overtime they'll add more and more features that may cater towards gamers (the platform gets updated every few months, and gets a major update at least once a year since it's WinRT roots - and in the last preview they added custom gamepad API support ontop of XInput), but it still has to stay within it's remit.
This nails it.
People who do not secure their PCs and download untrustworthy things can be a nuisance to others as well. Even gamers on consoles were affected by this, given recent outages of PSN and Live caused by people using botnets.
I wonder what the chances are for MS' Win10 Steam Machines not having the toggle to switch off Secure Boot and therefore preventing any other operating system being installed...
ps3ud0 8)
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
PC gaming seems to be in a pretty healthy state right now, so I'm not sure what dire and urgent circumstance meant that this sledgehammer of a solution (that cooincidentally fulfils MS business goals far better than it does consumer needs) was so desperately needed before all those features were actually implemented.
It nails something all right
Bits N Pieces
Member
If only they had an event or conference happening soon where they could talk about their plans ...
AncientDiety
Banned
Nah it misses the point almost entirely.
Gamers aren't the majority breh.
LordRaptor
Member
I believe it is part of an OEMs contractual obligation that all hardware sold with Windows preinstalled has UEFI enabled.
As I say, because some of the Linux distros coughed up the cash to buy their own UEFI key, it is not a big issue for regular users, as Linux can now install on UEFI secured machines, but if they hadn't..... hoo boy.
e:
This is also why I have a feeling that the MS 'solution' to making UWAs 'open' is going to be "you can just buy a key from us!"
TBiddy
Member
Except that the zero day exploits often found in Flash, Java, Windows, IE and a lot of programs will take a dump on your anti-virus, be deployed from the banners on your trusted website and worm their way into your system.
If you think that installing anti-virus and going to websites "you trust" keeps you safe, you're a bit naive, tbh.
From what I know, there aren't any PCs out there, that doesn't give you the option to disable Secure Boot.
You do know that Durante isn't an oracle, that can tell the future right? He has some great points, but don't use it a proof. It isn't about "understanding" or not - it's about whether it's plausible that Microsoft will make a vast number of gamers angry.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
And right now compatibility problems can be fixed by users. If it was a packaged UWA that would be much more difficult.
If you actually understood the possible long term implications namely that by restricting certain API features to UWAs MS could slowly but surely make Win32 obsolete over time, you'd realise that if that strategy plays out it'll be much more difficult for Steam to function as it does now. But I suppose firing off a one line post is super urgent so there might not have been time to actually read about the issue
Ah well that makes it ok I suppose
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
double post
Devilgunman
Member
Why should I care what other's experience is? If I can still buy games for cheap and the games still look great then MS will have me as a customer. If not, then I will just stick with Steam or consoles.
But this isn't a sledgehammer. They didn't go with a big bang approach where they release it and say..."this is the new, can't use the old, boom". They release it as a thing on their new OS where the older more mature thing is still the norm. If the new platform doesn't evolve to what developers and consumers want, it will fail. If Adobe and Autodesk have to release on MS' store and take a 30% cut in order to use UWP, it will fail. If consumers don't like the restrictions, it will fail.
FUD is a marketing tactic employed by competing companies. These concerns are absolutely not FUD, especially when it comes to Microsoft, a company that been shown to divide and destroy healthy competitive spaces with similar tactics many times over the last twenty years.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Fantastic outlook
The sledgehammer is solving the problem of security by locking down any non-authorised (by the publisher) modification whatsoever. That it happens to be a shoddily made and hopefully unpopular sledgehammer is merely a happy coincidence
Lenovo you can disable it. What manufacturers don't?
JohnnyWestlake
Banned
Like I said, it wasn't specifically built in PC gaming in mind. The UWP and store model was built as a safer, securer (and cross platform) alternative for the casual user who for years had to randomly downloading things from all over the internet.
They've literally only just started attempting to ship AAA games using the platform, and they're already updating preview versions of the platform with new features to make it easier. Having a vision publicly would be nice, but Microsoft also don't announce a vision to the other millions of developers using UWP, so an exception just for gamers would be hard to come by. But the platform isn't going to just devolve from the state it's in now. It will improve (as it already is) for gaming needs, along with all the other platform uses.
I should better word that as: they don't provide an immediate roadmap of new & upcoming features until they hit preview state
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Maybe they should have done that before spaffing off a half finished product into the aether and then complaining that detractors don't "get it" when they make pretty reasonable statements of concern
What's a finished product this day in age of rapid updates.
Adding is easier than taking back.
TBiddy
Member
Where have you seen Microsoft complain that the complainers don't "get it"?
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
If your answer to "this system isn't open" is "yes it is, you'll see", it's not far off
TBiddy
Member
There's a lot of paraphrasing going on here. It's not doing any good for the discussion, if that's the level where we're at. What really happened was that Tim Sweeney wrote his opinion about the new platform and had a few misunderstandings regarding the distribution of UWAs, which was corrected by that guy Kevin from Microsoft. And that was it.
OP needs his daily dose of cynicism and bile
Microsoft doesn't need to explain themselves to the community at all. Their responsibilities are to their stockholders, not their customers.
If explaining the ins and outs of its business plan was going to help it out, then it should explain. But being upfront with gamers is just hard truths that is just going to drive opposition to their approach, that's why you have PR and message control in the first place.
Microsoft's goal is to build a thriving 30% store for Windows first and foremost. Making it brilliant is a distant secondary goal that they might do in 2025 after many iterations, but only if it doesn't get in the way of organising things exactly so Microsoft earns as much cash as possible. Microsoft wants to have absolute control over as many components of this store as possible, so it can shape it into a form which gives it the best possible revenue stream.
The 30% is a shit ton of money. That's it.
Microsoft doesn't need to explain themselves to the community at all. Their responsibilities are to their stockholders, not their customers.
If explaining the ins and outs of its business plan was going to help it out, then it should explain. But being upfront with gamers is just hard truths that is just going to drive opposition to their approach, that's why you have PR and message control in the first place.
Microsoft's goal is to build a thriving 30% store for Windows first and foremost. Making it brilliant is a distant secondary goal that they might do in 2025 after many iterations, but only if it doesn't get in the way of organising things exactly so Microsoft earns as much cash as possible. Microsoft wants to have absolute control over as many components of this store as possible, so it can shape it into a form which gives it the best possible revenue stream.
The 30% is a shit ton of money. That's it.
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
We'll see how long this so called "dedication" to PC gaming lasts though.
Maybe because they're not responsible for how everyone else feels?
I keep reading this sort of thing, but I can't help but find it a ridiculous stance to expect others to be overly-concerned about other people's gaming experience. You can spend your life worrying and limiting what you do because others aren't in the same position - about anything, but at the end of the day it's about what YOU get out of it that matters.
AncientDiety
Banned
Lol
And sweeney's positive about UWA's anyway. He's just looking out for his business is all.
Maintenance
Member
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Even if that level of selfishness was ok, what's the point of stomping into a thread about those concerns and loudly trumpeting how much you don't care? Post count? Self satisfaction?
AncientDiety
Banned
X1 reveal numerous times. People just "didn't get it" according to ms.
True.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
There's a lot of omission going on here, which isn't doing much good for discussion either. Even if those "misunderstandings" about distribution were addressed, the very fact that we're talking about "sideloading" on a PC at all is obscene. Not to mention concerns about interoperability, modifiability, API feature restrictions, etc that haven't been addressed at all beyond "hey maybe we'll say something at build"
Hence "possible implications", which still means relying on "ehh Steam will still work" as the solution is complacent at best
Icanplaythat
Member
Didn't we already go through this with Games for Windows Live? That thing failed because it sucked. If this thing sucks it will also fail. There too many options for consumers and third parties on PC and Microsoft is not going to spend enough money on UWP to brute force it into being a dominant PC platform.
Glorified G
Member
Nobody considers Steam Boxes anything because they don't exist. Steam Machines are open platform PC's that gives you the options to download multiple gaming clients. Why would MS want consumers to buy FIFA, Assassin's Creed, CoD and other popular third party games on Origin, uPlay & Steam where they don't get any of the cut like they do currently with Xbox?
Bitch Pudding
Member
.The difference will be the Windows 10 Store. Once MS gets most new releases into the store it will be the main place to get games essentially replacing steam (which value knew was coming since windows 8 release and why they decided to make the steam OS/machines).
Penello even complained to Endgaget that the consumer just wasnt ready.
Why would that happen? It would only happen if the expirenece is better. Even then some people would prefer Steam. Some people prefer Windows 10. Of course all MS games would come to their store.
LordRaptor
Member
Other than the $120 Windows sale you mean?
It is entirely unhelpful to think of MS as just another digital storefront vendor.
I would think "it" here would refer to UWP, not anything MS has said about anything ever.
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