ShadowFox08
Member
I wonder when we'll actually get modern cgi graphics.
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Digital Foundry: PS4K / Neo spec leak is genuine, dev kits on their way to devs
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
I wonder when we'll actually get modern cgi graphics.
justsomeguy
Member
I hope it's $500 with the absolute best things available, it's cheaper than the PS3 launch price anyway, why not use the commanding position in the current market. PS4 will be cheaper and update the sales record so there's a choice for consumers, Sony are deserved to set the higher price for a good hardware piece.
Why not? By then the PS4K will be the standard for development.
If you actually believe that, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I don't know, mine was a classic tech n00b question, since i've been reading that the PS4K CPU upgrade won't be enough to match the one in the GPU and bottleneck it eventually.
I feel like this is what people aren't understanding. PS4K does not mean that that all future hardware releases will be some kind of half step. Its very likely that PS5 is a true generation leap over PS4K.
PS4K exists because we aren't there yet. Sony needs a 4K/VR box now, not 3 or 4 years from now. Its really that simple.
Negotiator
Member
Ratchet & Clank already surpasses Pixar's Toy Story in some aspects...
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Louis Cyphre
Banned
It does and if you don't like the pricetag you can easily buy the regular PS4 for cheaper. Pretty amazing indeed. I know I will be getting the new one.
We're already there.
Now in sweet sweet 60 frames per second!
ShadowFox08
Member
No I'm talking about pixar like graphics. We could work around the hair for that though.
Spider man on PS4 Neo (Believe)
RedRooster
Member
Nope. The sad thing is, for the lifespan of the PS4 it is always going to be the base standard for development. Even 5 years down the road the PS4K is going to be held back because PS4 will need to run the new games coming out even then.
There likely won't be an instance in the PS4Ks lifetime in which it has a game made exclusively for it, taking advantage of the ability to have more/better AI in games for example.
I suppose that is only IF Sony markets this thing as "also a PS4".
potatohead
Member
Depends what year of Pixar-like graphics you are talking about.
If you're talking the first Toy Story, we're well ahead of that already, except in the IQ department.
And FYI, everyone already knew you were talking about Pixar-like graphics.
This is what Toy Story looks like:
That's really no biggie for current hardware in real-time.
That's achievable right now. SE put out Agni's Philosophy which is literally just a CGI cutscene in real time, Epic put out Samaritan and Infiltrator...hell, even PS4 came out with 1886.
Sony isn't going to mandate a slightly upclocked Jaguar CPU, a GPU with only twice the power as the PS4 and the same amount of RAM and bandwidth as a PS4K as a mandate for development in 2020.
Liabe Brave
Member
They had to do it that way. If they put a much better CPU in there too, devs would be more likely to go overboard. They'd be able to add design elements--destructability, AI, etc.--that would overtax the base PS4 and run abysmally.
Sony putting an only slightly upgraded CPU in Neo isn't a failure. It's a strong indicator that they're trying to preserve the quality of experience for existing owners.
Going by the iOS model they'll have to phase out the PS4 eventually. There wouldn't be PS4K exclusives because they'll run on whatever they call the next box, which is why devs will always have to hold back.
To be fair, even at the most optimistic 16tflops, that's still only about 4x of a jump in basic GPU power from PS4K (not factoring in any significant architectural improvements made of course) compared to a standard 10x of traditional gens.
Of course we have bandwidth, RAM, and CPU to think about as well, which will make the jump far more significant in scope than just visual presentation.
Yeah, that's kind of what I've been thinking since I saw the dev kit specs. A better CPU would compromise the overall experience moreso than better image quality and more effects. This is just a bost to make sure that the 4k can more consistently hit the framerate target.
RedRooster
Member
Agreed. This is dangerous territory and the huge downside to incremental upgrades. I REALLY hope there is a true PS5 though, and the PS4/PS4K are treated like the PS3/360 were. Hopefully phased out even sooner.
I'm totally ok with the PS4K if its treated as a device of THIS generation.
I don't think that is true. Not only isn't it possible for consoles to achieve such an iq currently (which you mentioned) but also not that perfect rendering. We still see polygon edges nowadays, for example. In some ways, things might look better but I doubt that Toy Story is already renderable by a console.
Negotiator
Member
Shader and texture-wise Toy Story is already antiquated.
It's just the perfect AA that cannot be achieved in real time, although I'm pretty satisfied with most PS4 games. I rarely see jaggies these days (compared to the PS3 era).
With 2.3x the GPU they'll be substantial. I'm guessing PSVR games will be at least 90fps on Neo, instead of 60, and much better image quality.
This is what i have been saying the whole time...Sony are trying to sell this thing as a more powerful PS4 with the same ecosystem, the same games and the same base limit of PS4...they are trying to lock the experience down to the very minute details of not even having any extra modes or features.
I don't think they would bother to do that if they were not thinking of PS4K as a mere extension of the current generation and PS4, and not its own unit that by definition just happens to need to support PS4.
They will make a PS5, and if they want to continue this pattern, a PS5K in the same manner as this gen. The only difference will be that they will have good BC throughout, to support a consistent ecosystem.
That's just my opinion of course, and i know i am going to disagree with the "iterative consoles are the future" people, but if there is BC, there's no real difference in regards to consumers having a consistent experience and devs getting a stable development base for several years.
Same rules probably apply. Devs might have an easier time reaching 90fps with Neo.
Well, you can't technically. CGI graphics still take several computing hours on computers which eat a console for lunch and these consoles have to render a frame in real time in 33ms. Consoles can only try to mimic what professional rendering is able to do but that doesn't mean it's the same.
Jurassic Park came out in 1993 and I have yet to see something that looks better than a t-rex.
Edit: Toy Story computing effort:https://www.quora.com/How-much-fast...-in-2011-compared-to-how-long-it-took-in-1995
I think it's a bad idea, but I don't see a PS5 in the cards. Updates every 2 - 3 years is where Sony goes. Phasing something out with every refresh.
ShadowFox08
Member
Yes, which is why I said in my follow up post that they can work around creating the more tedious stuff like hair.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Reminds me of the old school claymation cartoons growing up. Like Gumby, lol. This game is going to be so mesmerizing in VR.
UnwrittenZero
Member
I think he means can he transfer all his data off the og ps4 then put it into the new ps4.5. I'm sure it's going to be feasible. It would be dumb not to.
And that's with 1.84 Tflops of compute rendering just imagine what they can do with 4Tflops
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I know... especially if it is Polaris, it may be more closer to the 4Tflop efficeincy range nVidia employs. Either way, it is going to be insane!
Astral Dog
Member
Imagine the cost of those games:O
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No word, but there are those of us who are anxious to hear of the other side things to be upgraded as well. SATA3 at least, and for those who need a better wireless antenna.
BritBloke916
Member
To me, the PS4K is the console equivalent of the XB1 Pro Controller. An expensive premium option which is clearly a significant improvement over the standard model, and which will be embraced by the hardcore enthusiasts and by those with money to burn on the shiniest new things, but the existence of which will neither interest nor trouble the typical mainstream PS4 gamer.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Lmao no, I mean can I back up my 2TB harddrive with PT on and restore it back onto PS4K like you can do with a normal PS4
Well there is Excavator, but it is much larger in size and sips more watts.
I wouldn't be surprised if Puma was in the final console but doubt we'll see any Zen based ones.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I don't think people mean that literally. But current real time computer graphics fare very well against Toy Story in terms of lighting and image detail. And DICE is getting pretty close to photo realism now.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Yep, this'll do as well. Can't wait for this game to drop.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Craziest part: the game doesn't even use polygons.
ShadowFox08
Member
What do they use? O-o
So untenable.
Can Sony emulate Jaguar 100% on Puma? I don't see how its worth it for the small bump
they wont be 90 since their screen is 120 and reprojection works well... they will be 60 with nicer graphics.
Why wouldn't they be 90? The screen can do 90 or 120
Straight Edge
Member
People looking for a Sony UHD player to match their Sony TVs are going to be buying this.
Are there latest rumours suggesting that Neo will house a UHD BR player as well? I thinks that would be the only way to coax me (personally) into buying. It's far easier to include my wife for a movie night on our flagship Samsung 4K TV than to play games.