THE:MILKMAN
Member
To be fair I really am curious why it has a relatively beefy power rating (36W) and is actively cooled. Something is in there and not just for the social screen and 3D audio?
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Digital Foundry - Several sources indicate Neo will launch this year
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
To be fair I really am curious why it has a relatively beefy power rating (36W) and is actively cooled. Something is in there and not just for the social screen and 3D audio?
rokkerkory
Member
This is correct.
Also, % difference needs to be taken account along with difference as well.
vpance
Member
Slim or another model with revised internals next year is my bet.
$249 PS4 and $349 PSVR, $599 bundle
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Feature parity is mandated, devs can extend and enhance features present in the base game, but they will not allow exclusive content.
The point is, if you want a special mission of say a RTS title involving thousands of combatants, running the AI for all of which would slow the base PS4 to an unplayable crawl, you can't have it just on the Neo version.
I wonder if they can bin chip production based on whether they're capable of base mode operation but fail full Neo mode, and what yields would look like? It's possible a single new design is sufficient to satisfy the need for a slim unit as well as the Neo. Alternatively, since they've already gone to the trouble of qualifying the new design for base mode operation, they could presumably simply eliminate any functional units that aren't required and have a scaled down design that could yield low-cost volume at 14nm.
Best of all, they'd have sales data from one holiday season to see the PS4/Neo split before deciding how to proceed with cost reduction instead of having to commit to a single course of action up front.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
How is better framerate, more NPCs on screen etc a waste? The GPU can also be used to increase the visual quality even more because it won't be needed to leverage the dog shit CPU.
But you can just scale down the base PS4 version(much less combatants) of the game down until it can run decently.
I guess you have figure it out, but this is entirely incorrect.
We'll just have to see if Sony considers that enough of a gameplay change that it won't be allowed.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think folks are so use to the next-gen successor dynamic they are just projecting that expectation on the Neo. Neo is a stopgap solution for the remaining few years of this generation, it is specifically limited by Sony to not alienate the existing fanbase...the PS5 will not have to worry about those sane limitations.
JonathanPower
Member
Not nearly to the same extent. The problem with having last gen console versions was the game had to be scaled back to fit into 512mb of ram. This time they all have 8 GB of ram.
why'd you think that?
Number of RAM chips seen in the video mock up of the motherboard combined with knowing the mem bandwidth 320GB/sec.
VincentMatts
Member
One of the rumour articles said it would.
Based on the memory bandwidth.
Proelite
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Render>12 chips>1GB per chip= 12GB?
MisterXDTV
Member
PS4k is out of question as this thing won't run games @4K. It would be like shooting themselves in the foot
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I honestly think Microsoft wasted a great name on their slim. "Xbox One S" would have been perfect for Scorpio.
Xbox One > Xbox One S > Xbox Two > Xbox Two S >etc etc
PS4 > PS4 S> PS5 > PS5 S > etc etc
A name like that would make people understand that its an upgrade, but its not a new generation.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's a content change. So no, its not allowed.
The point is, if you NEED the extra CPU cycles to do something over and above what you can do on PS4, the parity clause will disallow it.
Changing the resolution, frame-rate, draw-distance, etc. Are fine because the content is essentially unchanged, only the presentation has been improved.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
PS4 Premium? PS4+?
At some point it's no longer the same game. Trying to balance and play-test a title with those kinds of fundamental differences sounds like a nightmare. Instead, I expect visual fidelity improvements including differences in draw distance, non-gameplay impacting details like particle systems or hair and cloth simulations, and frame rate tweaks ranging from smoother 30fps to shooting for 60fps in titles that would benefit significantly.
well said.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
PS4 Neo can't have exclusive modes. Nothing says it can't have superior versions of content.
SneakyStephan
Banned
No, having a baseline of cpu performance is just as important
A jaguar cpu is not where you cut costs...
Cost cutting makes sense if spending more gives you diminishing returns on performance, you don't cut costs in a way that it cripples the hardware.
Good point. Though it will have the 4k bluray player. So maybe just "ps4"with a big 4k capable sticker on the box.
Im hoping for just PS4 Slim or PSX4.
+ also works. Ps4+ goes with playstation plus well.
Yeah i agree it would have been easier.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
Here is how I see it. Sony built an excellent console for the money with the PS4, why do people think that won't be true with the Neo. I would like to think their engineer team has balanced the Neo to produce the most cost effective console within their budget and what will also be easy for devs to take advantage of and make use of what's available.
People are expecting way too much here, you have to remember devs are making games primarily for the XB1 and PS4 here as that is where the market share is. Any extra development time and resources they use for Neo/Scorpio special touches is extra time and money they have to spend for pretty much zero return on that time and money.
People are expecting way too much here, you have to remember devs are making games primarily for the XB1 and PS4 here as that is where the market share is. Any extra development time and resources they use for Neo/Scorpio special touches is extra time and money they have to spend for pretty much zero return on that time and money.
I'm with Collingwood on the naming convention and I think the Scorpio will be the Xbox One Pro.
I like the idea of Sony calling the Neo the PS4K.
Jean Valjean
Member
I believe they can't do that, but what they could do is make the NPCs simpler on vanilla Ps4 compared to Neo.
After seeing Days Gone, however, I'm not that worried about the number of NPCs onscreen...
But won't it be odd when we're going to PS5? - PS5K?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I agree, people are acting like making a $499 or $599 console is the obvious choice, when consoles have never been able to sell at those prices.
If Neo is strong enough to make FFXV full 1080p, give them a decent AA solution, maybe improve draw distance and LOD a bit, i'd be thrilled.
There's a narrow window of time when 4k is an exciting new concept. I suspect Sony will happily ride that wave even though few if any titles will actually be 4k native. Playing native media and up scaling all other content is enough to build a brand around. They can do something different next time around if there is a comparable situation.
While I get an earlier poster's concerns that 4k branding is just asking for trouble when it's not native, I don't believe Scorpio is likely to have 4K native software across the board, either. It has the raw power to do so but only with visuals that are otherwise less impressive than current PS4 titles. I doubt that's what developers would choose to use the computational power for given how many customers will still have 1080p displays. So chances are they'll both be in similar situations with sub-native content, just like the first HD-capable consoles: PS2 and the original Xbox.
While I get an earlier poster's concerns that 4k branding is just asking for trouble when it's not native, I don't believe Scorpio is likely to have 4K native software across the board, either. It has the raw power to do so but only with visuals that are otherwise less impressive than current PS4 titles. I doubt that's what developers would choose to use the computational power for given how many customers will still have 1080p displays. So chances are they'll both be in similar situations with sub-native content, just like the first HD-capable consoles: PS2 and the original Xbox.
I think we are moving towards a numberless naming convention sooner rather than later from Sony because once we get to PS5,6,7 it just starts sounding silly. Microsoft has already strayed away from that simply with the 360 and now the Xbox One, there are no expectations for a name because who the hell knows where they could take it.
geordiemp
Member
If you would sell your existing Ps4 and buy an improved one just for that, Sony needs more customers like you who are easily pleased.
Highly doubt it, I think PS5 will be completely backwards compatible but nothing about the ps4 Neo or regular ps4 will be able to play ps5 games. That would be a huge boat anchor to a system that will probably have 7nm SOC chip and HBM2/3 ram in 2020 (or 5nm SOC in 2021). Also Sony already said there will be know games on Neo that won't release on PS4. MS on the other hand don't give a damn since all there games will be on PC anyways. Neo gives Sony the mid gen boost till the technology for a PS5 is feasible and affordable. 4k tvs will have mass market penetration by then, and VR is highly dependant on resolutions and framrates. Until then Neo will provide 1080p with Max effects and the occasional 4k indie game with 4k media play back. Consumers overwhelmingly have 1080p tvs right now.
That's how I see it.
I've always wanted that PSX..
Thinking of design, do we know if Sony may change the design of the console for the Neo? It might not be necessary I don't know but since it will be sold as a Premium version of the PS4, they might as well give it a Premium look, no?
andythinkpad
Member
I really have no problem if consoles move to iPhone model of iterative model every x year if the hardware is based on x86.
MS is effectively moving to this model anyway since they are merging the XBOX and PC software. So it's up to Sony to decide if this model is more beneficial to the Playstation platform.
MS is effectively moving to this model anyway since they are merging the XBOX and PC software. So it's up to Sony to decide if this model is more beneficial to the Playstation platform.
So there'll be backwards compatibility and extensive multiplatform support until the older hardware really starts to drop off the sales charts. Again, hardly anything unprecedented about that. Console market could do with more BC support, after all.
Did they have to? The point is that the market is hardly unaccustomed to shorter refreshes.
I don't think so.
Andrew House said clearly that Neo is about offering contents to people with a 4K TV.
Their idea is to position it as a device intended for 4K.
Contents are both movies (UHD BR and 4K streaming) and games.
It's absolutely not out of question that a few games will run natively at 4K on Neo.
It won't be that difficult for games not pushing graphics and do not understimate what some talented developers like first party teams can achieve.
At the same time other games might still offer higher rendering resolution than fullHD (1440p?) coupled with internal upscaling to 4K and other features like HDR support.These are all benefits that you need a 4K TV to enjoy.
Not having all the games running at native 4K is not a huge reason against calling it PS4K, even Microsoft is not mandating 4K resolution to developers a year later.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
I actually think MS's strategy is very dangerous for them. By promoting this PC/Xbox merger they hope that will draw more people to buy from the XBL/Windows 10 store which is know doubt where they are hoping their revenue will come from. Instead as many others have already said they might as well just get a PC which is fair enough. If however more and more people start looking into a PC that would usually primarily be console players then unless MS is very competitive with Steam they could end up losing a hell of a lot more with this move.
Yup. Personally not that interested in Neo as a gaming machine. I'm planning to overhaul my entertainment system this fall, which includes a more powerful gaming PC and 4K TV. Want Neo primarily for 4k media content (blu-rays, etc.). Better looking exclusives are a bonus. Multiplatform games I'll get on PC.
geordiemp
Member
So why wont you get any multiplats on Neo out of interest ?
NotSmartEnough
Member
Can you clarify that, please?
Are your suggesting that Sony use the same production line for Neo and a new slim base model, and use the defective APU chips with insufficient functional CUs in the base model, while the good chips go to Neo? If that's the case, would we expect a cheap base slim model as soon as they've cleared inventory of the old PS4?
Because I'd have a gaming PC. Infinite forward comparability, lower prices, potential for mods, likely better graphics, etc. Never buying a multiplatform game on a console again.
geordiemp
Member
Nah, neo allows for 4 defects in 40 CU, thats 10 %.
Your are looking to utilise 50 % defects, Just no. If hope its clear why...
NotSmartEnough
Member
Wow. I was looking for clarity. Thanks for that...
I think that is the case, but you'll have to convince those people who think Sony are ditching generations like MS and mandating forwards and backwards compatibility for all devices going forward.