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[Captain Zyrain]

I always thought BC was dumb, I want a NEW console to play NEW games!

But then we got it anyway, and I realized I'd missed out on a ton of good 360 games (Red Dead Revolver, Shadow Complex, XCOM, etc), and I sure as heck wasn't planning on digging out my Xbox 360, so BC is amazing.

It's given me personally way more than 5 hours of use. I think I've put close to 25-30 hours into Black Ops multiplayer alone since it became BC. Played through XCOM twice now. Really excited to finally get to play RDR this weekend too.

BC seems like a really great way to make it through the slower game months where there isn't much new I want to play. Or more realistically, I'm waiting to the new games to go down in price before I buy them digitally.

Would BC be a system seller? I doubt it, but maybe it would be enough motivation to push someone who's on the fence. At this point in the life cycle though, if someone is still stuck on Xbox 360 vs Xbox One.. either its a finance issue or they're probably not going to want to upgrade for whatever reason.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Like where? TV?

Wasn't BC one of, if not, the highest requested new feature on release?

I'm not sure where the money is best spent. Maybe BC is where it should be. Maybe it would be better spent somewhere else for the long-term health of the platform.

I still don't know, and these numbers do little to inform me one way or the other.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You are never getting hardware BC, what would be the point?

What? On XB2 and PS5? At that time, they are going to be much more under threat of PC, and the reset effect than they are now.

It will be more important then more than ever. But right now, especially in its limited state on XB1, i can't say its a big feature.

What does the 'noone uses it ' argument even achieve?
You're just trying to screw the people who do use it out of the functionality out of spite or something?

It always makes me sad when people argue against fellow gamers' or consumers' interests


"me me me, as long as I get mine then fuck you, me me me"
ugh

It doesn't achieve anything. Its not supposed to achieve anything. You think that the people saying the feature doesn't mean much right now, or that the numbers are not that impressive is going to make MS stop promoting it or something? Of course not. The only argument it puts forth is the truth of the matter, that in general, the feature is not used all that much and not really all that huge for celebrations of these numbers.

You will literally hopefully never see anyone say that backwards compatibility is bad and should not be implemented. Its just not a feature that is a dealbreaker for people who are buying consoles at large at this time. And for me personally, its not a feature that means much unless its PS2 to PS1 or Wii to Gamecube level of hardware and software BC.

As much as i enjoyed my 360's Xbox BC, it was super limited to games that MS could approve and would work decently without many bugs, and i only occasionally used it. Am i glad to have it? Sure, especially after my OG Xbox broke, so i don't have to buy another one. But it would not do much more than that in terms of my goodwill towards MS.

 

[MaulerX]

If 1m users tried BC for 30 minutes that is already 30m hours.

Sorry but why should anybody take you seriously when you can botch simple math in an effort to support your biased narrative?

 

[Scrawnton]

I agree, and I think going forward the more these companies treat their gaming platforms like services the more the onus is going to be on them to support seamless BC. As a gamer I would love it if I could pop a PS3 disc into the ps4 and play those games, no questions asked. But reasonably? I also understand why it hasn't happened, why it might be difficult to implement, and why it's probably not high on the priority list for Sony. I just don't think it is much of a game changer at this stage in the product cycle. It's something that appeals more to the hardcore gamer, and the hardcore gamers usually buy in early in a generation, not 3-4 years in. As to your own example, I mean it sounds harsh but as you said, you bought a ps4. You still play and I assume support your ps4, so from Sony's perspective, how upset are you really?

I'm upset with it to the point where I won't buy multi platform games on PS4 anymore. I'm not saying the Xbox is better, but I like the ecosystem more and the inclusion of BC gives me more confidence that my games are more secure going forward.

Also, I know it's semantics, but BC was announced 1.5 years into Xbox Ones life and released 2 years (to everyone) into the life cycle. That's not bad as far as features go. And by the time Scorpio comes out there could easily be 300+ 360 games available and that's a good marketing point for them.

 

[Gestault]

The argument is about development and investment costs and where the money is best spent.

I mean, the people behind the project and the purse-string holders both seemed happy enough to dive into pulling this off, and we are seeing positive reactions/engagements from the community. For players, these games speak for themselves. It added to the monthly value of GWG in very concrete way, and added another tool for publishers trying to add value to first-round purchasers/pre-orders. We've even seen clear sales reactions from old-but-high-profile releases as they're added to the service.

I have trouble understanding a critical outlook on that investment. I have the rough impression that this was a crap-shoot with a handful of engineers that ended up paying off because of good people. Other approaches to achieving these targets would almost definitely involve more resources than what we've seen here.

 

[Scrawnton]

I always thought BC was dumb, I want a NEW console to play NEW games!

But then we got it anyway, and I realized I'd missed out on a ton of good 360 games (Red Dead Revolver, Shadow Complex, XCOM, etc), and I sure as heck wasn't planning on digging out my Xbox 360, so BC is amazing.

It's given me personally way more than 5 hours of use. I think I've put close to 25-30 hours into Black Ops multiplayer alone since it became BC. Played through XCOM twice now. Really excited to finally get to play RDR this weekend too.

BC seems like a really great way to make it through the slower game months where there isn't much new I want to play. Or more realistically, I'm waiting to the new games to go down in price before I buy them digitally.

Would BC be a system seller? I doubt it, but maybe it would be enough motivation to push someone who's on the fence. At this point in the life cycle though, if someone is still stuck on Xbox 360 vs Xbox One.. either its a finance issue or they're probably not going to want to upgrade for whatever reason.

My favorite thing about Xbox One BC is that it lets us play the old systems games but still in Xbox One's ecosystem. I love BC on my 3DS and I use it a lot, but I really wish I still had OS level functions when doing so. Same with Wii on Wii U. I would be more inclined to use it if I could still access Miiverse.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'm not sure where the money is best spent. Maybe BC is where it should be. Maybe it would be better spent somewhere else for the long-term health of the platform.

I still don't know, and these numbers do little to inform me one way or the other.

BC on Xbox One is not just being able to play your old games on your shelf, it also adds a shit load of games to the Xbox One library. And they keep coming. Not everyone has played every game, so as far as they are concerned 2 free Xbox 360 games for their Xbox One is still 2 new games.

And if expanding the library with quality games both relatively new and old is not good for the platform, then I'm out of ideas.

 

[perfectsil]

What? On XB2 and PS5? At that time, they are going to be much more under threat of PC, and the reset effect than they are now.

In this thread full of people claiming BC is not important / only average 5 hours per user/ not worth the investment , why do you want or expect BC in ps5/xb2 ?

 

[MilkyJoe]

What? On XB2 and PS5? At that time, they are going to be much more under threat of PC, and the reset effect than they are now.

It will be more important then more than ever. But right now, especially in its limited state on XB1, i can't say its a big feature.

I meant the ability to use an OG controller or 360 kinect

 

[Wiped89]

It's bizarre because it's looking at user habits far too mathematically, and you did straight up make the assertion that the average user tries it for 15 minutes every week but dislikes it because the last gen is shit



Okay, but how expensive is QA compared to mass produced hardware emulation?

No, that's not what he's saying at all. Do you understand maths at all? It's an average. Of course, no-one plays for 15 minutes and stops. But one user who plays for one hour in a month will average out to 15 minutes per week. That's what an average is.

 

[MilkyJoe]

In this thread full of people claiming BC is not important / only average 5 hours per user/ not worth the investment , why do you want or expect BC in ps5/xb2 ?

I think MS it's been said and PS5? It'd be more unlikely to not be.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't want to assume too much (there's too much of that happening in discussion anyway), but this "necessity" for 100% BC for hardware/software seems arbitrary and almost deliberately obtuse. This is a choice between being able to play games or not, at no additional cost. Perfect everything forever would be nice, I'm with you there.

It's just strange seeing what's basically an ultimatum in those terms for a scenario like this. Unless you're ignoring several layers of reality, that's not an intelligent thing to expect, even on something like PC, where there's almost universal compatibility except when driver/hardware/OS generations make roadblocks. Which they do.

But we've come to expect that from past consoles in terms of delivery. When it came time for 360 to have Xbox BC, while i appreciated the sentiment, i struggled to play it more than every few months or so, especially considering that many games ran with slowdown and you could only find a certain amount that ran on par with their original states, let alone better.

Comparing that to PS2 to PS1 BC for example leaves me struggling to muster much enthusiasm at all. Now with x86 in future consoles, i'd expect consoles to be able to delver something on that level again, if they intentionally are aiming for compatibility on that level from the start.

With XB1's BC, again its like the 360 implementation where they would put up games slowly, except without as many bugs and broken games. I don't see this kind of solution as a general way forward, or something the mainstream player will use at large, and that is why i generally am not impressed by these numbers. I doubt Sony will keep up their PS2 on PS4 initiative much longer either considering how archaic it is, if they don't have plans to carry that over to NEO and PS5 as well.

 

[Boombloxer]

It's 100 million more than PS4 players have done. It's a big deal. That's basically an average of every owner playing another BC game per year than they would be playing otherwise. Considering the average attach rates of most consoles over their lifetimes, let alone a single year, that's actually pretty significant.

You could only actually say it's 100M more if you knew how many people had ever played PS Now and measured the total amount of hours, then compared.

4 hours per console on average, if we said only 5M players used it, it's 20 hours.
Not insignificant for legacy sales.

Meanwhile everyone else is buying/playing Overwatch, The Division, etc.

 

[D'ultimate]

But we've come to expect that from past consoles in terms of delivery. When it came time for 360 to have Xbox BC, while i appreciated the sentiment, i struggled to play it more than every few months or so, especially considering that many games ran with slowdown and you could only find a certain amount that ran on par with their original states, let alone better.

Comparing that to PS2 to PS1 BC for example leaves me struggling to muster much enthusiasm at all. Now with x86 in future consoles, i'd expect consoles to be able to delver something on that level again, if they intentionally are aiming for compatibility on that level from the start.

With XB1's BC, again its like the 360 implementation where they would put up games slowly, except without as many bugs and broken games. I don't see this kind of solution as a general way forward, or something the mainstream player will use at large, and that is why i generally am not impressed by these numbers. I doubt Sony will keep up their PS2 on PS4 initiative much longer either considering how archaic it is, if they don't have plans to carry that over to NEO and PS5 as well.

So do it on your terms or not at all? Otherwise it meaningless....to everybody?

 

[Hawk269]

Ridiculous how many people come into this thread solely to try and cut down on the xbox one, even though backwards compatibility is in all ways a positive for the industry.

I wanted to say something, but your short reply sums it up fine. It is almost embarrassing the length some people here go through to cut things down for no reason. Why be mad because owners of Xbox One system can play Xbox 360 games? Why be mad that games that probably have not sold much recently are getting a surge in sales which will go towards future development of new games?

Does it really come down to the fact that there is no true backwards compatible games on PS4? Can people that own the PS4 be that threatened because of Xbox One 360 BC? Are you fuckers that insecure? I am a PS4 owner as well as PC and other consoles, never got why people go into opposing system threads to cut down things.

 

[Monocle]

Good!

Nice to see some solid confirmation that backward compatibility is a widely used feature. It should come standard in every console.

Ridiculous how many people come into this thread solely to try and cut down on the xbox one, even though backwards compatibility is in all ways a positive for the industry.

Yep, pathetic.

 

[Inuhanyou]

In this thread full of people claiming BC is not important / only average 5 hours per user/ not worth the investment , why do you want or expect BC in ps5/xb2 ?

Because times are changing, and what is the case right now is not going to be the case later.

I meant the ability to use an OG controller or 360 kinect

I wasn't talking about hardware BC in terms of peripherals, i'm referring to hardware BC in terms of using your discs and software BC in terms of selling the games in an online store.

 

[SOR5]

No, that's not what he's saying at all. Do you understand maths at all? It's an average. Of course, no-one plays for 15 minutes and stops. But one user who plays for one hour in a month will average out to 15 minutes per week. That's what an average is.

An average that was dismantled pages and pages ago.

 

[perfectsil]

You could only actually say it's 100M more if you knew how many people had ever played PS Now and measured the total amount of hours, then compared.

PS Now is not BC

 

[Zeta Oni]

Would BC be a system seller? I doubt it, but maybe it would be enough motivation to push someone who's on the fence. At this point in the life cycle though, if someone is still stuck on Xbox 360 vs Xbox One.. either its a finance issue or they're probably not going to want to upgrade for whatever reason.

I think that if they could get almost of the 360 library, as well as the OG Xbox, they could easily use having access to two additional generations worth of titles for one purchase as a selling point. Immediate access to a large library. Bonus points if they update OG xbox live like they are doing for the Phantom Dust update, and/or somehow bring 360 emulation to W10.

Also, speaking of OG xbox BC, what was up with this back at E3?

 

[Inuhanyou]

So do it on your terms or not at all? Otherwise it meaningless....to everybody?

My terms? I'm saying the feature as it is implemented is too limited to actually scream from the rooftops about, and the numbers put up by MS corroborate that in term of general player usage.

I'm not saying anything about having BC at large, whether its worth it or not. They can have it or not have it in any capacity they choose, my only point is that people don't generally use it on the level that justifies its existence at the moment outside of general good will, and i can't say that i'm surprised about that.

Of course, its good that MS are trying, but its not at the level it needs to be at all for many people to take notice.

And Sony's implementation may as well not even exist as a thing.

 

[SOR5]

I spend quite a bit of time here on GAF, and I seriously don't want be thought of as a warrior or troll.

Looking at my post history I do have a habit of needling people on here, calling posters "a defense force", etc. It's dumb, and I'll dial it back.

Cakely, I dont think we're on the same fence alot of the time, but Ive never had a problem or thought you were a warrior or a troll, we havent really rendezvoued alot or either clashed that much but your posts always catches me, anytime you might have had a point thats counteractive to mine, I will say you have backed them up and evidenced them and ive enjoyed your contributions, but what I have noticed is you get a quick bit on the trigger, If you dislike or disagree with something just say it man because thats what makes discussion thrive. But please dont dismiss anything that might disagree with you in return as pure fodder, im not really a big deal around here so you might not care what I have to say but as much as I dont want things to be a senseless MS bashing party, there really shouldnt be a hugbox where we all sing kumbaya either

I don't remember a vomitorium of MAU MAU MAUs either, but you do you

However you mate, really just dont seem to be interested in the other side of the argument do you?

 

[derExperte]

Slow news day? Slow news day.
As is stands, I guess we shouldn't expect a press release from Microsoft stating, "we're still getting our asses kicked!"

Welcome to GAF where no one bats an eye that every inconsequential PSBlog post gets its own thread but goddamn does potentially good news coming from anyone else trigger us hard. Seriously, what do you want? That everyone who isn't the market leader shuts up and stops talking about the things they do, even if it's something not every competitor offers?

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Also, speaking of OG xbox BC, what was up with this back at E3?

I figured it was something to do with the little speech he gave about 15 years of Xbox and all that.

 

[dLMN8R]

This number was announced during E3 in the context of it being a year since the announcement. It's weird seeing people get bent out of shape about it as if Microsoft just shared it now for the first time without any context.


Obviously for people who have used backwards compatibility, those people have each used it for more than 4-5 hours. Since it's easy to guess that millions of people have never used it at all.

But even if it was true that every single Xbox One owner used it for 4-5 hours on average, I'd say that alone is pretty impressive. It proves that no one is just loading up games for a few minutes as an experiment, it means that people are genuinely using it to play games for an extended period of time.

4-5 hours might not sound like much for the average GAF user, but to normal people that's a pretty large chunk of time. If no one actually cared about backwards compatibility, the number would be a hell of a lot lower.

 

[bede-x]

Would BC be a system seller? I doubt it

Maybe not the implementation Microsoft uses here where it's a fraction of the total last gen library that's available, but in the future when people have made large investments into an ecosystem, I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[Angel_DvA]

That's pretty low, not a succes or a failure, just irrelevant at the end.

I like BC as a concept because you can play old games that you love and stuff but I'm not really caring about it, I don't have times to play games I've already beaten but it's free so it's kinda cool for people that love it.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

and I'd be spending 50+ easy if God damn Lost Odyssey becomes available!

 

[Inuhanyou]

Maybe not the implementation Microsoft uses here where it's a fraction of the total last gen library that's available, but in the future when people have made large investments into an ecosystem, I wouldn't bet against it.

Yep. Its hard to imagine that implementations of BC would go in reverse, where we now have to build up to a competent solution as opposed to several select games on a case by case basis, but it seems like things have gotten more complicated and not less

 

[SOR5]

Also, speaking of OG xbox BC, what was up with this back at E3?

A logo that popped up too many fucking times giving me a heart attack

 

[DISSESHOWEDO]

Whatever floats your boat man....

Yours too, have a lovely day!

Not everybody can afford having ps1 ps2, ps3, and ps4, let alone having the space to place all consoles next to each other.

BC is a great feature no matter how hard console warriors try to spin it. 100M playing hours is for a feature that gets 0 playing time on a competitive console. Whoever is trying to justify Sonys decision not to support BC (and EA access) are honestly hindering competition in the industry.

I fully agree, please do not understand me wrong. I'm not complaining on Xone's BC, i find it a great feature and is the only thing that i miss on my on my PS4! I find MS's PR a complete spin as, first they have changed their PR strategy from the moment they lost the so called "console war" and second as some other users have posted 100M is not a huge number, when you break down the numbers with Xones sold!

As for the 1st bolded part, we do not know how many hours PS Now has, so this is just a pure speculation on your end. And yes it is a form of BC.
And for the 2nd one, you know taht PS3 emulation is not possible due to the architecture of the PS3!

PS
I'm planing on getting an Xone S, but will wait to see Ninty with NX first.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

However you mate, really just dont seem to be interested in the other side of the argument do you?

Aye, its actually his posts that are boak inducing.

 

[Neuromancer]

Credit where credit is do, BC is a cool thing MS is doing. Good for them.

 

[Zeta Oni]

I figured it was something to do with the little speech he gave about 15 years of Xbox and all that.

Makes sense.

A logo that popped up too many fucking times giving me a heart attack

Tell me about it, I was really hoping it was gonna be a "one more thing" style announcement.

Although now that I'm giving it some thought, I do see how OG Xbox emulation done like the 360 could be a pain. However, tin foil hat time if you don't mind:

They did announce OG Phantom Dust getting an updated release with reworked xbox live and very little updates graphically so to speak, so that gets me thinking. Isn't the Phantom Dust release extremely similar to the PS2 remasters Sony has been doing? Maybe instead of flat out Xbox BC, we are getting something similar to that, quick and simple ports with updated Xbox Live, achievements, and a relatively cheap price. Phantom Dust could be the first of many, and maybe the shirt was a hint to that.

 

[NahaNago]

100m is low in my opinion considering how long this service has been out even if the games are old.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Welcome to GAF where no one bats an eye that every inconsequential PSBlog post gets its own thread but goddamn does potentially good news coming from anyone else trigger us hard. Seriously, what do you want? That everyone who isn't the market leader shuts up and stops talking about the things they do, even if it's something not every competitor offers?

MS does an amazing thing: "who cares, fake numbers, PR spin"

Sony does typical/average thing: "HOLY FUCK AMAZING"

 

[icespide]

MS does an amazing thing: "who cares, fake numbers, PR spin"

Sony does typical/average thing: "HOLY FUCK AMAZING"

I hope you don't really believe this

 

[Curufinwe]

MS does an amazing thing: "who cares, fake numbers, PR spin"

Sony does typical/average thing: "HOLY FUCK AMAZING"

The past three years must have been really tough on you.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I wasn't talking about hardware BC in terms of peripherals, i'm referring to hardware BC in terms of using your discs and software BC in terms of selling the games in an online store.

Ha ha well neither of those would ever be called hardware

 

[shandy706]

Forget just taking 2 spots earlier today, RD took the first 3 now. Does it have a 4th form?

X-D

That 100m about to blow up.

 

[CoG]

I think they expected to pull a lot of 360 people in with this. The thing with BC is that it needs to work with all titles or it's whatevs. The last couple of generations have been disappointing from a BC perspective. Going forward at least we'll have 100% BC across at least Playstation and Xbox.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think they expected to pull a lot of 360 people in with this. The thing with BC is that it needs to work with all titles or it's whatevs. The last couple of generations have been disappointing from a BC perspective. Going forward at least we'll have 100% BC across at least Playstation and Xbox.

To be fair it's hitting it's stride

Edit - those columns didn't pan out so you can have a link

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available games

 

[Leyasu]

Mental gymnastics the thread

 

[CoG]

To be fair it's hitting it's stride

Edit - those columns didn't pan out so you can have a link

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available games

I'm seeing a lot of XBLA games and indies. My point is, if it's not 100% it's a half measure. I don't want to reference a matrix every time I want to play an old game. I want it to just work. This generations is such garbage with no BC or half-BC and remasters/remakes galore.

 

[Doctre81]

lol that's not really a lot when you do the math.

 

[Pathfinder]

lol that's not really a lot when you do the math.

There's too many missing variables to do the math.

I take it you haven't read the thread. We've covered this already.

 

[Toa TAK]

Really glad that Nintendo and Microsoft have BC in some way. Been very pleased to go back and play Black Ops, Halo Wars, Halo Reach, Gears series, and come Friday I can pop in my RDR disc and play that, too.

I still have my 360 hooked up just to dip back into older titles. Sometimes it's great to revisit older stuff like you would with movies, books, and such.

 

[PdotMichael]

You could only actually say it's 100M more if you knew how many people had ever played PS Now and measured the total amount of hours, then compared.

4 hours per console on average, if we said only 5M players used it, it's 20 hours.
Not insignificant for legacy sales.

Meanwhile everyone else is buying/playing Overwatch, The Division, etc.

One could claim that PS4 users used the 100m hours to play (mostlikely PS4 users aren't playing less than Xbox users) new PS4 games which I think is more interested for Sony and Third Parties.

 

[TheAdmiester]

The past three years must have been really tough on you.

Three years?