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[Kilau]

People don't seem to realize these games aren't going to be running at top PC settings, or 60fps least of all. A 1070 can easily push 4k30fps+ at top settings now.

Or that a 6 AMD TF card is $200 retail.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That Zen not ready till 2018 stuff is more than likely bogus. A site with less than 13 stories reported that, and it still hasn't been corroborated by more credible sites.

I know a lot of people are quoting that 2018 rumor, but is that 2018 or FY2018? Scorpio launch falls in the latter.

We'll have to see, i've heard it a lot on Beyond3D going back a few months, which usually does not allow that kind of stuff to be parroted without proof, but again we'll see.

If they manage to get a notebook level, possibly lower clocked APU version of Jaguar into Scorpio by the end of late next year, and at a reasonable price point, that could do decently as a CPU for them. a great step over current Jaguar regardless of the compromises that would be needed to fit it inside the power envelope.

 

[leeh]

Wouldn't there be less need for AA when rendering at full 4K?

Fair point, you are correct sir/madam.

 

[DISSESHOWEDO]

Yea, we'll all laugh at how stupid that would be for Sony to do. Then I'd laugh at everyone who bought a PS4 Pro. lol

Then we all laugh, win win for me.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

they are going to try and ride this vapor hype until the end of next year arent they..? My goodness.

It's only an extension of their normal strategy:

Kinect has 'potential' and in the future it will have great content.
Only the last 4 months of the year matter so don't worry if the PS4 has games all year.
Wait until the end of 2017 and we'll have a more powerful console.

 

[jabuseika]

It's a console so it will be cheaper than a PC.
And 1070+i5 is $600 right now, not 1 year later.

The console also comes with other components, not just a CPU and GPU. So yeah, you can expect a decrease in cost over time, but you still need to put all the other components on top.

Although, given the nature of console coding, you could possibly lower the required specs to achieve the same performance. But I still don't think it that would come out that much cheaper.

 

[dragonzdogma]

So Sony going to screw PS4 Pro buyers?

No because it would be announcement for Dec 2018 lol.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's not their job to let the competition get breathing room. Their job is to keep/regain/gain as much mind(market)share as possible as long as they're offering a product.

I'm talking about giving "themselves" breathing room, from making sweeping statements they then have to walk back. If they talk about Sony, that's something that should happen. Andrew house can frankly cry all the crocodile tears that he wants about it.

 

[Heshinsi]

Mean Halo Forge, probably. Which is in the same technological vein.

http://www.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1275771&page=1

Oh, I had no idea this came out. So I'm guessing the full game is going to follow along some time in the near future?

It's a console so it will be cheaper than a PC.
And 1070+i5 is $600 right now, not 1 year later.

Don't know about the States, but here in Canada, it may actually get more expensive lol. Our dollar sucks

 

[theWB27]

I'm talking about giving "themselves" breathing room, from making sweeping statements they then have to walk back. If they talk about Sony, that's something that should happen. Andrew house can frankly cry all the crocodile tears that he wants about it.

But is it really that far out to believe a machine with that many flops can't run an x1 game at 4k?

 

[johnnydrama]

Uh... The CPU and GPU required to make that happen?

A 1070 paired with a decent i5 equivalent can achieve 4k at 30fps on medium-high settings, that's around $600 alone.

...and if they put another Jaguar on that thing, that'd be really sad.

I don't know which GTX1070 you've got, but I can play most of the newest games at 4K locked 30 high-very high on my 980Ti. Only game that gives me any trouble is Rise of the Tomb Raider. Hell, I can easily get 4K60 in GTA V with only a couple of settings turned down. And a GTX1070 is a bit faster than that. Microsoft's console is coming a year from now, if not even longer. And they don't buy components at retail price, so considering how quickly hardware drops in price, and the deal they've struck with AMD, I don't see how they could end up with a console more expensive than $500 (worst case scenario).

To put things into perspective, Titan X launched in spring 2015 for $999. GTX 980Ti, with almost similar performance launched in fall 2015 for $649. The GTX 1070, which again provides similar performance launched this summer for $400 or something. See how quickly prices drop for the same level of performance? And we are talking about bulk hardware in fall 2017.

Let's not forget that the 1070 is also sold with ridiculous margin thanks to Nvidia.

And this as well.

 

[Gator86]

The Scorpio quickly turned into one of my least favorite topics in recent gaming. What an amazing job by Microsoft, and similarly amazing set of customer relation slip ups by Sony, that a vague, hypothetical console with the promise of 4k within budget and spec restraints that a console inherently brings is suddenly being looked at as some sort of beast over the horizon.

The fact it's a year out, with no leaked specs, no solid developer impressions, and that it's relying on the promise of achieving a resolution that we've already seen is not completely understood by the mainstream is what causes my ire. Asking "should I buy a PC or a Scorpio?" illicits the same reaction from me as "should I buy an iPhone 7 or 8?" We simply don't know, and going off the company's promises, especially the one losing the sales and mindshare battle, is only going to create unjustified hype leading to a lot of letdowns.

Anyway, 4K is cool.

Yup, Scorpio is just an idea right now. For the most, it exists primarily to give Xbox Warriors a reason to log onto message boards for the first time this gen. I'm not even confident of games getting a PSpro version worth talking about. What are the chances of Scorpio versions having any effort put into them whatsoever. Even if they do, they'll still be dragged down by having to support the archaic, by the time Scorpio comes out, Xbone. God only knows how much it'll cost and if more than a handful of people even bother to buy one. It's not like things associated with Xbox haven't been flops this gen, and I say that as someone who just finished Sunset Overdrive for the second time.

 

[etta]

All powered up with the powah of the cloud! Love me some, MS talk about the future console, no one knows a thing and that's a year away from release!

Will laugh hard if Sony announces/release the ps4 pro plus edition Nov, 2017 and it's stonger than the scorpio hw wise!

The irony 😂😂

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I'm talking about giving "themselves" breathing room, from making sweeping statements they then have to walk back. If they talk about Sony, that's something that should happen. Andrew house can frankly cry all the crocodile tears that he wants about it.

I don't think anything MS is saying is insane.

 

[e-gamer]

Halo 5 doesn't run at 1080p 60fps all the time.

It's not only the flops. There is also the bandwidth...

 

[-MB-]

I don't know which GTX1070 you've got, but I can play most of the newest games at 4K locked 30 high-very high on my 980Ti. Only game that gives me any trouble is Rise of the Tomb Raider. Hell, I can easily get 4K60 in GTA V with only a couple of settings turned down. And a GTX1070 is a bit faster than that. Microsoft's console is coming a year from now, if not even longer. And they don't buy components at retail price, so considering how quickly hardware drops in price, and the deal they've struck with AMD, I don't see how they could end up with a console more expensive than $500 (worst case scenario).

To put things into perspective, Titan X launched in spring 2015 for $999. GTX 980Ti, with almost similar performance launched in fall 2015 for $649. The GTX 1070, which again provides similar performance launched this summer for $400 or something. See how quickly prices drop for the same level of performance? And we are talking about bulk hardware in fall 2017.

Let's not forget that the 1070 is also sold with ridiculous margin thanks to Nvidia.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

How much is this thing going to cost? Im really interested to see what they do. My feeling is its going to be more expensive than people think

 

[johnnydrama]

All powered up with the powah of the cloud! Love me some, MS talk about the future console, no one knows a thing and that's a year away from release!

Will laugh hard if Sony announces/release the ps4 pro plus edition Nov, 2017 and it's stonger than the scorpio hw wise!

I can't tell sarcasm from fanboy drivel in these threads anymore. Can anyone help me out here?

 

[thuway]

Of course 4K is possible. A good rubrick to follow would be any thing PS4 Pro is doing at 1800p (or the Checkerboard resolution) - Scorpio should be able to render in 4K. (*This is a total guess on my part). However, any one expecting "uncompressed" pixels and PC ultra settings are deluding themselves. 4K is quite demanding so expect settings to stay at Xbox One Quality - IE - Medium Settings and at 30 FPS. Also 4K, in Microsoft's definition, probably is inclusive of dynamic resolution. Don't be surprised if the next Halo is "Dynamically Native 4K" with a consistent 60 FPS.

I predict by Fall of next year, you'll see a recurring theme of PS4 Pro titles that are Checkerboard 4K (IE 1800p/1440p) and the same games will run natively in 4K on Scorpio.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Right now it's just lip service to try and keep people from getting the Pro.

 

[leeh]

I can't tell sarcasm from fanboy drivel in these threads anymore. Can anyone help me out here?

.

 

[Inuhanyou]

But is it really that far out to believe a machine with that many flops can't run an x1 game at 4k?

From 1080p? If they turn down certain settings enough and render at 30FPS, sure. But many of the more taxing X1 games are not 1080p.

Also, 6TFLOPS in AMD terms is generally only about 30 to 40% more powerful than the Polaris GPU inside of the PS4. It takes the PS4 Pro's GPU more than double(2.23) its GPU power to even render a little higher than 1440 and use checkerboard rendering, while keeping most of the basic PS4 level visuals intact.

30 to 40% more power is a lot less than what would be necessary to get to native 4K as a legitimate increase while still pushing appreciable visuals over what the XB1 can do.

Remember that it takes 4x the pixel pushing power of 1080p to get to native 4K. And the Scorpio's GPU over the XB1 is only just about barely pushing that.

They will not have much GPU power left over for much else, if they have the power to get there to begin with. That is why many devs don't even think its worth it period for the increase in pixel quality over checkerboard reconstruction like Sony is doing, or using the GPU power for other things like better AA.


http://gamingbolt.com/native-4k-is-...econstruction-should-be-used-instead-doom-dev

 

[cheezcake]

I can't tell sarcasm from fanboy drivel in these threads anymore. Can anyone help me out here?

I am as lost as you friend

 

[The God]

How much is this thing going to cost? Im really interested to see what they do. My feeling is its going to be more expensive than people think

Spencer has a non-answer about the price

"We're not ready to announce something right now, but you can imagine at the price point of Scorpio – which we haven't actually said, but think about consoles and where they live in terms of price point – having something at six teraflops that will get millions of people buying it is very attractive to some of the VR companies that are out there already, and we've architected it such that something will be able to plug right in and work."

http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...know-about-microsoft-s-4k-ready-xbox-1323455?

 

[capitalCORN]

Or that a 6 AMD TF card is $200 retail.

Are you talking about 480 4k performance, because I'll be damned if I didn't search for benchmarks...

 

[Vinterbird]

Phil Spencer (2014):


Phil was right about frame rate and I hope they make most of the Scorpio games 60fps, not 4K/30fps.

Developers are already making massive compromises in visual effects to hit 60 in 1080p. I don't want to see what level of compromises they have to deploy at 4K.

 

[thuway]

The year later thing is fine. I have a ps4 and currently no desire for a neo. Its a year too early i think.

The premium price could certainly be a let down, but we would have to know the price first.

Premium sounds 499 at minimum. If Microsoft actually attempts to change the CPU from Jaguar to Zen (which is something I highly doubt) - Zen in an 8 core desktop form is rumored to draw 95 Watts. Even if you cut the clocks in half, disable a core, and do wizardry, your still looking at a substantial amount of heat/power draw for the CPU alone.

That combined with Microsoft's internal motherboard drawings showing a potential 12 GB GDDR5X and the bullhorning of a 6 TF GPU - you have the recipe for a machine that could once again potentially rise to the throne of the controversial "$599".

Or that a 6 AMD TF card is $200 retail.

Microsoft would be stupid to dismiss Vega as a candidate for a console with 6 TF. Polaris hits 6 TF when you saturate it with massive power and you'd still be clinging onto an antiquated architecture. Vega should offer some heft improvements - but the most important one being a much larger CU count that could be cut down and run at a much lower clock to hit 6 TF.

 

[Sesuadra]

At 15 fps.

probably 30fps and the same textures and graphics the xbox one has. that's what I'll expect.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

New gen CPU + 6tflp gpu + 12gb of GDDR5 ram + 1-2 terabyte hdd = will be at least 500$ possibly more.

The new MS hardware team makes quality shit. Its not the 2013 MS anymore. And Spencer already said its a premium device so I wouldn't expect 400$.

I am curious as to how much you think MS and Sony pay for these components in bulk. You know they dont go to Newegg to buy these things right?

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Maybe they can hit native 4k but it will be like medium or lower settings on PC. I'd rather they render at a lower rez, upscale, and make sure the framerate is consistent.

 

[Self_Destructive]

The boys at DF must be salivating and enjoying this. PS4 Pro vs PS4 alone will bring some new interest into the comparisons from people on both sides, then throw in the XO, Scorpio and PC into the mix.

Things are gonna be interesting

 

[RedAssedApe]

It'll be like 2013

720p v 1080p

This time around Sony will be weaker but have price advantage. So in that respect at least ms will be in a better position than last time. But Sony will also have the huge install base.

 

[ShutterMunster]

I do think Microsoft's timing is a bit better than Sony's. I think the myriad of HDR/4K TV threads and suspicions about the Pro's inability to deliver native 4K games is indicative of that. The market around the 4K, HDR, VR console will be more mature.

Don't know if it'll help them turn the tides though.

 

[Orayn]

I think Scorpio stands a reasonable chance of running modern AAA games at 4K30. The RX 480, which is the closest everything match to what Microsoft has said about Scorpio's GPU, can do it at least part of the time.

Much more skeptical about 60 FPS games, the amount of raw power needed to do that is still huge. Expecting those to go the checkerboard or upscaled route.

 

[DasPenguin]

Question: what games will they be launching when Scorpio comes out? Gears is out soon, Halo is already out. They are talking about 1st party lineup only. Will they do that for 3rd party games as well?

EDIT my mistake, missed the part "boost for visual quality" for older titles.

 

[abracadaver]

They also said every 360 game will render in 720p and then right at launch PGR3 didn't

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I do think Microsoft's timing is a bit better than Sony's. I think the myriad of HDR/4K TV threads and suspicions about the Pro's inability to deliver native 4K content is indicative of that. The market around the 4K, HDR, VR console will be more mature.

Don't know if it'll help them turn the tides though.

But it can deliver 4K content, both in games and streaming.

 

[cheezcake]

Also, 6TFLOPS in AMD terms is generally only about 30 to 40% more powerful than the Polaris GPU inside of the PS4.

Assuming you meant PS4 pro here ofc, it's a sizable chunk of real world performance taking the current closest graphics card equivalents (380x for PS4 pro and 390x for scorpio)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1559?vs=1592

 

[thuway]

The new MS hardware team makes quality shit. Its not the 2013 MS anymore. And Spencer already said its a premium device so I wouldn't expect 400$.

Microsoft has been careful to mention the word "Premium" and the target being the "hardcore gamer". They wouldn't be so selective with words if they planned to just strap a $499 price tag on there. $499 is what the Xbox One launched at - and in that regard- a Scorpio at $599 - being the strongest Xbox ever built with the most "up to date" components ever assembled sounds like a peice they can stick with.

 

[LordBaztion]

It Will do great with nonexistent 4k TV. Give me that 1080 high setting godness.

 

[capitalCORN]

Assuming you meant PS4 pro here ofc, it's a sizable chunk of real world performance taking the current closest graphics card equivalents (380x for PS4 pro and 390x for scorpio)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1559?vs=1592

All this flops nonsense is about as helpful as ranking 'bits'.

 

[Orayn]

Question: what games will they be launching when Scorpio comes out? Gears is out soon, Halo is already out. They are talking about 1st party lineup only. Will they do that for 3rd party games as well?

EDIT my mistake, missed the part "boost for visual quality" for older titles.

Assuming they need to buy themselves another year before Halo 6, I'm expecting Halo 3 Anniversary in 2017 for Scorpio launch. Not sure if it would be a standalone or part of a new and improved Master Chief Collection.

All this flops nonsense is about as helpful as ranking 'bits'.

I dunno, it's not entirely useless when the consoles we're talking about are using GPUs that are fairly close to what buy right now. The age of heavy custom silicone in consoles is done.

 

[supernormal]

They've said this like a thousand times already.

Games that are 1080/30 on Xbox One will be 4k/30 on Scorpio. 1080/60 will be 4k/60.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

fuck a 4K. will they be 60fps?

 

[texhnolyze]

It Will do great with nonexistent 4k TV. Give me that 1080 high setting godness.

4K TVs will become the standard 2017 onwards.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Microsoft has been careful to mention the word "Premium" and the target being the "hardcore gamer". They wouldn't be so selective with words if they planned to just strap a $499 price tag on there. $499 is what the Xbox One launched at - and in that regard- a Scorpio at $599 - being the strongest Xbox ever built with the most "up to date" components ever assembled sounds like a peice they can stick with.

Would you like to make a friendly wager? I think it will launch below 500.

 

[thuway]

They've said this like a thousand times already.

Games that are 1080/30 on Xbox One will be 4k/30 on Scorpio. 1080/60 will be 4k/60.

Receipts? It makes sense tho. PS4 Pro will be somewhere in between at 1800p/30 (checkerboard).

Would you like to make a friendly wager? I think it will launch below 500.

Nope, I don't do that sort of thing, because the reality is - most of us are speculating using historical data, GPU/CPU power/ draw, and PR rhetoric. I've seen plenty of people come on here and suggest that component prices this time next year will fall to such a dramatic extent that Microsoft could easily price the Scorpio at $499.

My biggest rebuttal is: Scorpio is using a 16nm Lithography. The components it's using won't be more powerful and smaller ; in fact - the components will be symmetrically larger over PS4 Pro with a symmetrically greater power draw. Unless Microsoft manages to wait till 2019 and the 7nm node shrink- this machine is essentially using the same manufacturing process as PS4 Pro- and will be bound similar laws of heat, power draw, component cost.


I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm of the mind that Scorpio will launch at $499 if it contains a Jaguar, but if they aim for any thing higher than that - and actually institute 12 GB GDDR5X - I can't see any thing less than $549-599.




Also I expect the machine to be 50% larger than PS4 Pro.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I am curious as to how much you think MS and Sony pay for these components in bulk. You know they dont go to Newegg to buy these things right?

MS still needs to pay for R&D, Manufacturing, shipping, and whatever else costs there are to bring this thing to stores. They are selling an "elite" controller for $150 and that is not meant for the average consumer. There is reason to believe that the scorpio will also be an "elite" console. There's a reason why they have not mentioned price. If they knew they could sell for $399 they would say it right now since they're so eager to reveal everything else about the scorpio

 

[The God]

Microsoft has been careful to mention the word "Premium" and the target being the "hardcore gamer". They wouldn't be so selective with words if they planned to just strap a $499 price tag on there. $499 is what the Xbox One launched at - and in that regard- a Scorpio at $599 - being the strongest Xbox ever built with the most "up to date" components ever assembled sounds like a peice they can stick with.

People used this same argument to support the idea that PS4 Pro would be above $399

 

[capitalCORN]

I dunno, it's not entirely useless when the consoles we're talking about are using GPUs that are fairly close to what buy right now. The age of heavy custom silicone in consoles is done.

Yeah, but there's an assumption of shared architecture. Which is not the case between PS4 and XBO, and is not a guarantee.for PS4P and Scorpio.