But MH fans like the "outdated game design" you speak of, otherwise they wouldn't sell so well. The games have been getting more user-friendly over the years, with MH4U being the best improvement in the series so far so i don't see the logic in completely overhauling what makes monster hunter, Monster Hunter, to please people who never really gave MH a chance because of "outdated mechanics".
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Capcom wants to grow Monster Hunter in West, feels handhelds are limiting sales there
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But MH fans like the "outdated game design" you speak of, otherwise they wouldn't sell so well. The games have been getting more user-friendly over the years, with MH4U being the best improvement in the series so far so i don't see the logic in completely overhauling what makes monster hunter, Monster Hunter, to please people who never really gave MH a chance because of "outdated mechanics".
In what ways is Monster Hunter outdated in terms of game design?
OrbitalBeard
Member
I don't understand why some people compare Monster Hunter to Dark Souls.
LordRaptor
Member
Wait, so the rumour is that Sony are so terrified of Nintendo in Japan they paid for a special No-Nintendos-Club exclusivity deal for a game, and then proceeded to 'streamline' it to focus entirely on western audiences where they have de facto exclusivity anyway?
Okay.
Okay.
pretty done
Member
They're both hardcore action games made in Japan. One of them puts a focus on bosses, the other on level design. There's a ton of overlap between the fans. It's the closest thing to Monster Hunter there is without being a dollar store clone (Toukiden, SS, GE)
DrROBschiz
Member
I do
3D combat with an emphasis on precision, timing, evading etc?
They share common elements and physics at the very least
digita1alchemy
Member
I am glad they feel this way, but they need to go about it very, very carefully. Monster Hunter is not for everyone, and they have cultivated a very loyal Western fanbase over time. Taking a huge swing for gaining more casual players at the expense of alienating existing fans would be a great way to kill all the momentum they've built.
There's no scenario where you win this argument.
There's no scenario where you win this argument.
I dont - but i was responding to a post about that rumor.
If only Souls was on 3DS, then I'm sure it could sell 3-4m in Japan alone. From Soft's missing out!
Exactly. Another thing is that if this rumor is indeed the truth, then Nintendo will most likely take a huge step back when it comes to marketing MH.
OrbitalBeard
Member
They share some elements but Monster Hunter in its current form isn't nearly as accessible to the western consumer as Dark Souls. DS is very challenging but it's also pretty conventional in a lot of ways. Monster Hunter is not.
So, like I said earlier, if Capcom wants to expand Monster Hunter in the west beyond a couple million units per title, they're going to need to change some of its foundation. Simply adding more platforms will only go so far (although this is what I'd personally like to see, as MH in no way needs to become "westernized").
So you're saying MH4G or whatever recent game would have sold better in the west on PS4 than on 3DS?
Prototype Viktor
Member
Explains why they refused to put it on PlayStation last generation they were worried it would have grown the franchise too early and now it can grow this time
Gotdatmoney
Member
Dark Souls has been building up to where it is now. It didnt start as a big seller. Tbh I think the next iteration of MH will really dictate where the series is in the west.
If switch is successful in the west I see MH being a beneficiary to a large degree. Also, if DS3 only did a million in Steam I'm not really sold on where the drastic sales potential is coming from.
I don't personally have a problem with any of it, and the aspects of MH that people consider outdated are what I might find the most precious in this increasingly bland and homogeneous gaming world.
But the main recurring issue that people have with the game - aside from the fact that it's not on a Sony platform - is that it doesn't tell you enough. For example you need a Black Pearl to make an armor piece - I know that comes from Daimyo Hermitaur, but a newbie to the series wouldn't. People don't want to sit there with Kiranico open to look stuff up for everything they want to make. Quest descriptions could be hugely improved - I have vivid memories of timing out on the old Goldenfish quest and to this day still see people with the same problem.
Even longtime players have no idea where to start with bowguns. The information available is between nothing and sketchy - hell I couldn't tell you what most built-in HBG ammo types do, and I mained them the entire time in Generations.
Menus are intimidating and could be cleaned up. The crafting system and inventory could use some work, although again as a bowgunner I'm deeply aware of how it can affect balance.
They can definitely make the series more approachable without going full DmC or Dead Rising 4. Remains to be seen if they go too far or continue with the plan of just adding small quality of life improvements.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Whether or not MH has shitty textures is entirely up to Capcom. Again, MH5 is going to be HD regardless of its platform location.
The missconception about development cost always make me chuckle
Good graphics don't cost money by themselves, it's the manpower required to make the games that do. If people are saying MH team is 150 people, even if it looks like that because 3ds can't do any better, they are not cheap games to make.
How many people would be needed to make a HD game on UE4 or something like that? Because there are plenty of PS4 games that look very good and have less staff. The modern devtools facilitate the process in many areas so the increase in cost to make a Switch/PS4/PC MH wouldn't be that astronomical to begin with, and as a bonus now they can actually charge $60 for the games because they're no longer tied to the portable pricing stigma.
So I don't find that far fetched to grow in the west with that strategy, because furthermore risking the whole franchise on a unproven platform that may not take off is too big of a gamble.
Good graphics don't cost money by themselves, it's the manpower required to make the games that do. If people are saying MH team is 150 people, even if it looks like that because 3ds can't do any better, they are not cheap games to make.
How many people would be needed to make a HD game on UE4 or something like that? Because there are plenty of PS4 games that look very good and have less staff. The modern devtools facilitate the process in many areas so the increase in cost to make a Switch/PS4/PC MH wouldn't be that astronomical to begin with, and as a bonus now they can actually charge $60 for the games because they're no longer tied to the portable pricing stigma.
So I don't find that far fetched to grow in the west with that strategy, because furthermore risking the whole franchise on a unproven platform that may not take off is too big of a gamble.
Personally, I agree. Although I've purchased all the recent iterations for the 3DS, I've barely put a dent into them. Just don't spend that much time with handhelds. In general, Monster Hunter on the 3DS also is terribly uncomfortable for me.
I'd be all over a PS4 or even Nintendo Switch Monster Hunter.
I'd be all over a PS4 or even Nintendo Switch Monster Hunter.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thankfully those will be Capcoms only choices going forward... eventually
Have HOPE Hunters!
Same way you'd compare elder scrolls to mass effect, I imagine. A lot of similar core concepts. Attack animations, risk/reward, battle prep, upgrading equiment, etc.
You'd argue that the orginal RE games fixed camera angles was not outdated? Or the fact that in this game the character has to walk to about face when humans dont do that in real life not outdated?
Gotdatmoney
Member
I get what you are saying but do you feel you're actually getting a generational leap MH game on PS4 with 4U content and its not going to cost significantly more than a 3DS version?
Did you play Tri?
pretty done
Member
"only a million" in ~6 months
Please show me any non-Nintendo developed games doing those numbers on Nintendo hardware. Switch isn't going to change anything, the series needs to be multiplatform to grow. Why are you fans so adamant on this franchise being locked to Nintendo's hardware? It doesn't make any sense.
I always take the bad Nintendo news rumors as true no matter how far fetched they are, good Nintendo news rumors are the hardest to believe, Nintendo conditioned me to think that way.
MH4U did "only a million" in 2 months in the west. MHGen did 800k in around the same time.
Not the only two. Android and iOS.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I paid $200 for a system just to own MH4U and MHGen. What exactly makes you think I want it on a handheld? So many assumptions. You're the one honestly getting all platform agitated. I dont care. I'm getting it regardless.
My issue is I don't actually know how.much room thia series has to grow because I don't actually think the platform is liniting like 2 million extra sales in the west. I think the game design is. If DS3 doing roughly Gen/4U numbers on another platform is the basis. I dont get what peoples argument is. Steam is way bigger than the western 3DS base. That is comparable numbers.
I dont really care about the platform.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Again, this was going to happen even if Capcom didn't say anything today.
Yeah. I don't expect it. Sony's strategy is to accept that the Japanese market is collapsed and things are a problem for them whenever Nintendo manages to make room over there because when the Japanese market has room to grow that exacerbates the issue that western and Japanese consumers want different sorts of platforms and games and makes it harder for Sony to both put out a western corebox and have Japanese support. If Switch works and with its mixture of specs/portability attracts Sony ecosystem developers to bring PS4 games over, that's letting Nintendo get one foot in the door and pressures Sony to make similar concessions to Japan going forward. Concessions like going hybrid, which annoys western corebox fans. Sony doesn't want to do this. They've accepted what's happened in Japan (thanks in no small part to their own decisions).
It's best for Sony as to Japanese support, which is one of its distinguishing features versus XBox, if the Japanese market remains settled and small. Nintendo has set itself up this past decade that it is best for them to open it up. There's conflict there.
This is the Wii/PS3 conflict continuing, where PS3 trashed a lot of the Japanese scene and Sony is having to live with that, while Nintendo keeps trying (and failing with Wii U) to provide an alternate way forward for Japanese consumers and developers.
...
Now I doubt Japanese support is that important to PS success, but it is a tool I'm sure they're glad they have, especially in Europe and Asia.
...
All that said, I think people could peacefully coexist. But there's definitely a danger, however remote, however small in Switch to PS and I could see a move on Monster Hunter as a preemptive defense against this.
It would cost more, but it shouldn't be a massive budget like the western AAA jugernauts. And they can offset those increased cost with a higher selling price, the bigger digital adoption of hd consoles and also dlcs
I didn't, because I don't actually like MH games even if I tried to play them a couple of times. I'm talking from a business perspective.
I am all for making MH multi-system. The dream would be Ps4-PC-Switch with cross-play but it will never happen. I only dont include xb1 since it is essentially non-existent in Japan and do not see Capcom releasing on it.
Well Capcom don't need to increase the MH base in Japan, its the Eastern focus that we are dealing with and dropping MS would be a dumb move in the long run. Unless Switch does amazingly well, the handheld market is stagnant in Japan, since outside of mobile phones, Nintendo have nobody challenging them.
Win 10 Play anywhere and Ps4/Pro would be the best bang for buck if Capcom wanted to bring MH to a much wider audience.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
I feel like the relationship between Nintendo and Capcom on Monster Hunter has worked out pretty favorably for both parties. Seems silly for them to part ways and not be working together anymore.
What exactly is outdated except the visuals? You keep saying MH is out-dated without even mentioning what. The combat? maps? monsters? villages? crafting? movement? explain.
SapphiCine
Member
I feel like if they pressed Nintendo to make their handhelds more ergonomic, they might have had more success in the West.
I agree. I believe Nintendo publishes the game in the west (at least) and advertises them heavily (having their own directs, etc), so Capcom is definitely benefiting partnering with Nintendo. The question is if Ninty will be ok with them releasing on other systems in the West. Will they still publish the game but only on Switch? will they drop them all-together? would capcom self-publish or will they find a 3rd party publisher to release on all systems? Who knows.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I agree about selling price but besides that I don't grasp how this could be cheap if they actually produce a modern game. DLC is normally free. They sell 2 versions of the game and I imagine they will use that model again.
To put it in context. Tri was the game where they basically redid everything and there is significantly less content in it as a result. I din't see how you can have both the content of the recent games and the midern tech of this gen without a substantial boast in costs.
That's ignoring my interpretation of the series as far as appeal goes. But I guess the counterpoint is with switch capcom literally has no choice now lol
OrbitalBeard
Member
Why are you putting words in people's mouths?
I genuinely don't believe the majority of actual Monster Hunter fans would really be all that upset if the series went multiplatform.
SpiceMelange
Member
The only thing outdated in monster hunter is the lack of information regarding drops lists, monster weaknesses for which element and attack type. They should add books in the game like the monster ecology books that unlocks drop rate information for monsters and areas. Monster books themselves should be upgrade able to show elemental weaknesses and hitzones as well as quirks like lagombi stunnable with sonic bombs, etc.. An ingame encyclopedia like Civilization's civilopedia would be the best.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Of course there are some console warriors who would just love to see MH as an exclusive on their platform of choice.
Who honestly cares about those people though? Most MH fans on GAF are reasonable.
This is a legitimate concern, true. I really want cross-platform play if the series goes multiconsole.
What's an unrelated game and the walking comment got to do with the gameplay lol
I think it'd be more accurate to say they wouldn't be upset if it switches platforms and remains on a different one, but I think some would mind if its multiplatform since some argue it could fragment the playerbase, but that wouldnt be much of an issue for example on Sony/PC because I think there's already crossplays for various games there.
Most would probably be upset if it left Nintendo after Nintendo help champion it in the west, like they continue to do with Dragon Quest.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I understand we have console warriors but dude just pulled his assumption from no where. I had to drag myself to buy a 3DS of which I own 2 games for. (Hey their monster hunter. Who woulda thought?)
To jumo to where he did, I dunno. Pretty weird man.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
For sure. I think the majority of people here are in disbelief. The group of people that are only invested in this discourse because of the threat of Nintendo losing a big exclusive franchise is minimal, but definitely present.
Like I say, making assumptions based on the 3DS is just as silly a mistake as people making similar assumptions about Wii U based on the Wii, but at least those had a little more of a leg to stand on. Given how Switch isn't a 3DS replacement despite the fact 3DS is dying, no one should expect publishers to blindly pledge exclusive support when there are more lucrative install bases out there. That's how I see it.
So fanboys then.
But what handheld device are Capcom supposed to sell this thing on? They can't rely on 3DS forever and Switch is still an unproven entity, especially seeing as (as I mentioned above) it's not a true successor the 3DS. To assume that the 3DS audience is going to automatically migrate to Switch is foolhardy. The paradigms have shifted, and Capcom must now adapt to the change in market conditions.
Shadowlink
Member
Also, it wouldn't make sense from a business standpoint. Monster Hunter clearly sells on handheld devices versus a console, so why take that away from the consumer?
Think people are getting too worked up over this rumor. Unless capcom wants to abandon it's handheld fanbase in Japan, i'd say it's a 99% chance future MH titles will also be released on the Switch. Call me a pessimist, but i don't ever see MH selling in the 3-4 millions in the west just because of shiny graphics and the ps4.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Ho come on. I wouldn't care if the franchise went multiplat.
I would be pissed if I could not play it on switch at all though.
Now if there's a PS4 open world "modern" spin-off in the works, why not. I'll be happy to keep the "outdated" game. I can't have 2 consoles btw. And I like MH on handheld.
I gave an example in terms of physics and in some cases monster behavior that the even had to tweak to get to Tri.
The character you control cannot about face like a normal human, they have to walk about a 45 degree turn to change directions, for normal humans and most other action games its almost immediate regardless of the human holding a weapon, especially with adrenaline rushing through them in a life or death situation. The point being that its a waste of time having the character need to walk rather than adding a animation for changing directions in movement.
I personally put up with it and can get through most content as I started seriously playing 3U and went on to 4U and Gen getting to I beleive golden crown G rank in 4U. But to me I don't feel it is that challenging more so than I'm fighting things I feel could be improved. Most people aren't going to put up with it.
I also really enjoy Dark Souls mechanics, more so than MH, I feel they are tight. But not like I'm fighting the actual mechanics along with the monsters. Most people who complain about it are probably feeling like they are fighting the controls more than the monsters and the fact that they just throw you in without really explaining the combat mechanics probably add to the frustration of less patient players.
Like the lock on feature isn't really lock on, its refocusing the monster to the center of the screen unless I'm misunderstanding how to use the feature. The only other option is me constantly having to circle the monster, attack, then move out and circle it again. Its not fun when the monsters now seem to be more dead set on chasing you down for a clean hit.
DrROBschiz
Member
Im happy to see where the cards fall at this point
Either way i win ;p
Either way i win ;p
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