Yep. Being afraid for my life while people are getting upset cause the mean ol essjaydoubleyoos hurt their fweelings
How fun.
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The influx of moderates telling us to tolerate sexism, xenophobia, and racism all day
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
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How fun.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Actually he would, well the real MLK would. The whitewashed one who basically only exists as 3 choice quotes would probably sing kumbaya.
yanipheonu
Member
I just usually say "I'm a human, my rule is generally to not be assholes to other humans."
Gets hard to be racist when you have to admit you think someone is less than human for your premise to stand. And if you do, well, thats some next level racism beyond ignorance, at which point conversation is pretty futile.
Gets hard to be racist when you have to admit you think someone is less than human for your premise to stand. And if you do, well, thats some next level racism beyond ignorance, at which point conversation is pretty futile.
Baki
Member
That's not why Clinton lost. Demonising Trump supporters just led to inaccurate polls. Those fuckers were never going to vote blue.
Election was lost due to voter suppression and boring candidate. This led to a low turn out for dems.
I'll go ahead and add this to the list of things I'm not talking about.
You're responses to me have nothing to do with me.
I'm not going to stop criticizing people for their words and deeds just because my criticism makes them feel uncomfortable. This shit didn't end just because America has spoken and Trump won nor do I factor in whether or not you think they care.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Can you point out which posters here are the white moderates?
Can you point out where we ask you to coddle racists?
Is it possible that you've been mischaracterizing both the posters and their positions?
Its not a high horse to want to protect our rights that are constantly in question by any means necessary.
A lot of folks here saying to think of the other side and educate. Why not think of our side, how we were told since birth that this isnt our world and in order to survive we need to understand our place as secondary to a cis white straight male? How we have to constantly, for many of us even daily try to deal with ignorant folks and bigots who refuse to learn or those who mean well but get offended easily when you try to brin up sensitive topics (just look at the pokemon gender thread on gaming to see how hostile people can get on these sensitive issues regarldess of how professional and calm the minority brought it up).
Im going to call everyone who votes trump unpatriotic, privileged as all fuck and willing to allow racism to thrive so their issues are solved not ours.
They will continue to think selfishley and if we take the time to educate, what many of us try to do at one point in our lives or another we will be met with hostility.
With that, fuck every last privileged, racist trump supporter (ALL of them).
The only people in the world i will educate are my parents because i genuinely love them and will save my relationship with them at any cost. Just those two alone are exhausting, fuck trying to educate anyone else. Age of google, fucking google it.
GalacticToast
Member
I'm not saying they weren't. But it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone else.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yup. Always the double down. :/
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Adding this to the OP/
So whats more important? Her being "Right", him getting elected and undoing all of Obamas work.
Or her taking a nuanced approach, getting some of these voters in key states, and actually winning?
It was a stupid statement to make.
What nuance is there for people's electing a man whose platform was bigotry and lies?
Pinko Marx
Banned
Why this narrative that they need to be coddled? Its not this either/or thing. They just need to be included in the conversation. Its not "coddling" it's inclusiveness.
Already Torn
Banned
I understand what you're saying. Basically deplorables are gonna be deplorables. There's no real solution except wait for them to matter less.
White People are added to every conversation by default in America. When they're not the center of that conversation they get upset that they're not being included because they've been the center before.
Im loving this imaginary narrative that has minorities being shitty towards the majority making them feel ostracised so they have no choise but be stuck in their racist ways.
Poor minorities have been trying to reach out to poor white workers since Jim Crow and all that got them was a lynching. You had a president that spent 8 years of his terms making reaching out to those same racist voters to middling returns (by them mostly voting obstructionists in the house).
Even during bias crimes; Orlando, South Carolina, you have minorities reaching out and being the better person focusing on unity.
Yet y'all pop in here on some, "This racism is your fault". Fuck outta here.
Its cool tho, we will keep on reaching out because you're our neighbors and shit. And you can sleep better when your friends call us slurs and you let them slide in hopes one of us steps up to the plate and teaches em.
Poor minorities have been trying to reach out to poor white workers since Jim Crow and all that got them was a lynching. You had a president that spent 8 years of his terms making reaching out to those same racist voters to middling returns (by them mostly voting obstructionists in the house).
Even during bias crimes; Orlando, South Carolina, you have minorities reaching out and being the better person focusing on unity.
Yet y'all pop in here on some, "This racism is your fault". Fuck outta here.
Its cool tho, we will keep on reaching out because you're our neighbors and shit. And you can sleep better when your friends call us slurs and you let them slide in hopes one of us steps up to the plate and teaches em.
InsaneZero
Member
Quite frankly, it should be REALLY obvious that this "moderation" schtick does not work.
Our presidential-elect completely ignored shoring up support from "moderates" that were disgusted by his behavior, and won by consolidating his angry base. Why can't that be turned on its head? It seems to actually WORK.
Our presidential-elect completely ignored shoring up support from "moderates" that were disgusted by his behavior, and won by consolidating his angry base. Why can't that be turned on its head? It seems to actually WORK.
To a lot of people in this thread it's the same thing. I'm just trying to explain it in grokkable terms.
They were included in the conversation.
But they tuned out when we gave rights to gay people, when we gave rights to women, when we supported racial minorities.
Poor white people have the same issues as poor black people.
Poor white people just continue to vote for Republicans because religion is a hell of a drug. Guns are good. And brown people are bad.
"Hey, I want basic human rights."
"Hey, I don't think you should get those."
"Aw shucks, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You still down for the Hornets game tomorrow?"
"Hell yeah!"
*high-fives*
Yep, we're gonna make plently of progress with this strategy. I can already feel it.
"Hey, I don't think you should get those."
"Aw shucks, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You still down for the Hornets game tomorrow?"
"Hell yeah!"
*high-fives*
Yep, we're gonna make plently of progress with this strategy. I can already feel it.
I am wondering what exactly do minorities need to teach? That they are human beings deserving of respect? What is holding people back from empathizing with them? If someone cannot not hate someone due to the colour of their skin or their sexuality etc because they find it blasphemous or beneath them, there is not much a minority can do.
If you vote for a group whom openly attacks and mocks them for these things, I'm not sure what you expect. They cannot simply "get over it" and feel good about these people who voted against their rights and existence.
If you vote for a group whom openly attacks and mocks them for these things, I'm not sure what you expect. They cannot simply "get over it" and feel good about these people who voted against their rights and existence.
Other than telling minorities what we should be doing to get racists to stop hating us. What are you doing to change their minds?
Voting for Barack wasn't a sign of faith. It was a once in a lifetime moment. 1 out 44.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Because that is the sad reality of the world we live in. You can either come to terms with that and work on fixing it, or you can double down on what we have now proven to not work.
It's not fair to put this burden on you or me. But that's the sad reality of the world.
Silver Arrows
Banned
It's sad to see known minority posters, whether they are sexual or racial, basically beaten down by people in this thread and told their opinions don't matter.
WI and MI was lost because of the wrong message. Period.
No one is saying to coddle the racist, some targeted messaging in those states about what Clinton could do for them instead of the constant negative trump campaign would have made the difference.
200k more votes and we could have a generational supreme Court change.
We live in 2016, are you telling me we could optimize our message for the firewall states?
No one is saying to coddle the racist, some targeted messaging in those states about what Clinton could do for them instead of the constant negative trump campaign would have made the difference.
200k more votes and we could have a generational supreme Court change.
We live in 2016, are you telling me we could optimize our message for the firewall states?
I as I black person refuse to tolerate the perpetuation of bigotry and racism. Fuck that. I'm not doing it. Someone else can coddle these motherfuckers if they want , but it ain't gonna be me.
Anyone have the Native American vote % numbers? I imagine it'd be very low for Trump, what with the environmental destruction and all. Or do people even care care enough to tally it?
Also, I'm a kind person. I will continue to spread kindness. But being kind doesn't mean I have to coddle horrible views. Trump is a monster, period.
Also, I'm a kind person. I will continue to spread kindness. But being kind doesn't mean I have to coddle horrible views. Trump is a monster, period.
Yeah. Some of those people are actively, blatant racists that will never change but not most of Trump supporters. Some of them just care more about taxes or guns or abortion. Some of them hold sexist, xenophobic, racist views on some issues but may not even know why and could change their mind if they knew better.
I grew up in a rural area, where there weren't many openly LBGT people when I was in HS. I'll admit I was homophobic back then. I didn't speak up when the bullies would tease a kid and called him fag or queer (I may have joined in once or twice, actually). I was honestly scared being around gay people that one of them might try to make an advance on me or sexually assault me. I was ignorant and thought being gay was a choice weird creepy old dudes made, that a lot of them were child molesters, etc.
It wasn't until I got to college when I actually came in contact with more LBGT people and got to know them that I realized they were just normal people too who happened to be gay. I saw what they went through and could empathize with them, and that it was a really hard thing for them to openly be themselves and come out. It wasn't a choice.
It took a couple years. I would have probably kept the same opinion if they would have immediately yelled at me and called me a bigot for being cold to them and just wanting them to go away the first few times they talked to me. But the people I got to know were always friendly and didn't outwardly think any less of me for my attitude towards them at first.
We're not going to win over every Trump supporter, but taking the high road is eventually going to pay off.
Try to understand them, talk to them, let them see your viewpoint. I know it's hard especially when folks are still getting murdered unjustly, but we'll get better results if people don't write everyone off immediately.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Because his platform was more than that. It was hope for a failing economy. It was the prospect of an outsider dealing with rampant corruption. You need to step outside this echo chamber and listen to people who you don't necessarily agree with. We, as in the left, need some perspective on why this happened. And the why is more than just "this country is racist" because obviously that type of talk gets us nowhere but a Republican presidency.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
They're learned traits based on the opinions of others. They aren't inherent in people. And I brought up Obama because you can apply your line of thinking about Trump voters to Obama and pretty much any other President in history as long as you're keen on putting everyone in a group in a nice little box.
And you have to be blind to think I was blaming you for being upset. This is exactly what people are talking about. You're not reading what I'm saying at all. Neither is Eden, you two keep regurgitating things to people attempting to set up some "Gotcha" attempt when that attempt isn't even relatable to what the person originally said.
I told you to not jump the gun and label people horrible just because they don't agree with you. Your response to this was to assume I was a bigot and that I voted for Trump. Both of which are untrue. So thanks for swiftly proving my point.
I'd like to think you'd change your mindset after this, but you'll probably just completely misrepresent what I've said here, pretend you're debating an entirely different point than what I made, and go back to only listening to people who agree with you.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
I hate being the guy that calls out strawman, but come on. I know you don't believe that this is what we want.
Every reason you just gave that isn't outright racism can be summed as "outright ignorance". False information pumped through the same mouthpieces every four years.
Are you going to use that to excuse every single fucking horrible thing Trump has stood for? Because this isn't one negative mark on Trump's platform. It's one of dozens. His attitude towards women, his attitude towards the black community, his attitude towards the latino community, the GOP's stance on gay marriage and the rights of LGBTQ individuals, his outright lies and deflections about his acts as a businessman... The list goes fucking on.
Do you think someone who has stood behind Trump for this fucking long after everything he has said is interested anymore in self-reflection?
This isn't one group that's about to suffer either. It's a metric fuck ton of people.
Angelus Errare
Banned
*copy, pastes, saves*
I'm basically going to quote and link to this from this point forward.
If there was any election, any, where the right collectively put their foot down, this would have been the one to slam dunk it on, because this turd was a rich magnate, couldn't talk about policy coherently, was completely open about his prejudices and had barely any support from the party. It literally couldn't have been any easier for them to look a bigotry in the eyes and say "no".
And just under half the voting bloc still came out in force for him.
Fuck them collectively.
And just under half the voting bloc still came out in force for him.
Fuck them collectively.
I already said that. His hope was lies.
He promised people in dying industries that he would save their jobs. And when we asked him how, he just said he was going to do it.
That's not hope. They're lies. He told people their taxes would go down. Except his plan was for the wealthy like all modern Republicans before him.
There is no nuance.
Donald Trump is as corrupt as you can get. He's a corrupt person who's going to fix what, exactly?
He fed them lies. They ate it up.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Don't do that Errare, you have to show the whites that you are tolerant of their intolerance and that means sitting down and shutting up /s
Keep making the circle of "good liberals" smaller and smaller. That will do wonders I'm sure.
And I'm sure that now I'm on your bad list. Even though I support BLM, voted liberal on every ballot measure, etc., my suggestion that maybe, just maybe, a lot of white dudes in this country have it pretty bad right now, puts me on the shit-list of "white moderates who are part of the problem". And I'm not even white. I don't even look white.
You don't even need to "understand" or "empathize" with the moderate white.
You just need to say whatever is necessary to get them to vote for you. I mean, that's what Trump did. We all know Trump isn't going to fix their problems, but he convinced them he will. And that's why he won.
You just need to say whatever is necessary to get them to vote for you. I mean, that's what Trump did. We all know Trump isn't going to fix their problems, but he convinced them he will. And that's why he won.
Dealing with a failing economy by electing a man who once claimed a billion dollar loss and hadn't payed taxes in two decades, who was as corrupt, if not more, than any politician already serving.
You're not doing a very good job of convincing me that these people aren't stupid.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Kudos for going out and educating these people, but there are physical/emotional/mental risks that it is not only not fair to ask every minority to take on, it's insulting.
Why do minorities always have to be the ones to sacrifice? People consider themselves educated and empathetic, but seem to only be willing to extend that empathy to the worse choice.
I understand white people have nothing to gain from trying to make things better for minorities but just keep it to apathy in that case. Antipathy is too much.
It sure as hell seems like the vibe from this thread. Either you got the guts to call bigotry what it is, or you don't. I'm not betraying everything just to appeal to someone that considers me subhuman.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I mean, that's kind of the day to day life of the American minority.
People are just showing their asses now because it's time to throw blame around, and blaming minorities is our national pastime.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
You are absolutely right about this. It is 100% ignorance. But this is why they are victims, just as we are. Does their ignorance cause them to suffer as much as we minorities? Definitely not, but your hate is misplaced.
Republicans dominate the uneducated vote. The solution is right in front of us. Educate, don't demonize.
Silver Arrows
Banned
I mean, that's kind of the day to day life of the American minority.
People are just showing their asses now because it's time to throw blame around, and blaming minorities is our national pastime.
Always welcome in my Canadian house, mate.
Already Torn
Banned
"But maybe the second amendment folks maybe there's something they can do right?"
One of my co workers posted this today
Vincent Alexander
Member
I agree with you a bit, but those who have it kind of bad couldn't take a second to educate themselves on Trump, and sacrificed the well-being of their fellow man for for their own. I suppose that is human nature and I can't hold it against them....but I think that is why this idea of them being in a shitty position too doesn't work well. It then turns into a nasty debate of "who had it worse?" or "who has the potential to get it the worst?"
It's so sad that so many people made their peace with voting for Trump.
I definitely agree that people who voted for him were complicit in his racism, sexism etc. and they definitely have to shoulder that blame.
However, I think that it needs to be understood that many people who did vote for him aren't the malicious kind of racist that wants to see minorities as second class citizens but rather just ignorant people who haven't been exposed to different ethnicities or people who hear about racism but don't understand just how bad it is.
Sure, you can call them racist and be correct but they are going to feel attacked and probably won't re-evaluate their POV. Now is it the burden of people to educate the ignorant? No, it's not but then you can't be surprised when the ignorant stay ignorant and vote ignorantly.
It's a really shitty situation and it is 100% wrong but that's the way it is, unfortunately. Time will sort it out I believe. Bigots will die off, minority groups will grow but until then we're in for a rough 4 years because of it.
I definitely agree that people who voted for him were complicit in his racism, sexism etc. and they definitely have to shoulder that blame.
However, I think that it needs to be understood that many people who did vote for him aren't the malicious kind of racist that wants to see minorities as second class citizens but rather just ignorant people who haven't been exposed to different ethnicities or people who hear about racism but don't understand just how bad it is.
Sure, you can call them racist and be correct but they are going to feel attacked and probably won't re-evaluate their POV. Now is it the burden of people to educate the ignorant? No, it's not but then you can't be surprised when the ignorant stay ignorant and vote ignorantly.
It's a really shitty situation and it is 100% wrong but that's the way it is, unfortunately. Time will sort it out I believe. Bigots will die off, minority groups will grow but until then we're in for a rough 4 years because of it.
Psychoward
Banned
People thinking MLK wouldn't condemn the overwhelming majority of Trump voters, if not all of them
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