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[Mindwipe]

Also, the need to win an election is worth helping to normalize bigotry and bias? Is that where we want to be in a society?

They already are normalised.

The question is what gets them de-normalised faster. Is it a Democratic government, or a Trump one?

Because I sure as fuck don't think it's the Trump one.

 

[Messofanego]

You voted for Trump, why do you care?

I honestly don't understand why so many Trump supporters are now calling for unity.

People that voted for Brexit said the same stuff about unity. It just sounds like concern trolling to me.

 

[Crossing Eden]

People that voted for Brexit said the same stuff about unity. It just sounds like concern trolling to me.

It's a transparent way of telling people to fall in line and tolerate the intolerance.

 

[MUnited83]

You voted for Drumpf, why do you care?

I honestly don't understand why so many Drumpf supporters are now calling for unity.

When they say "Unity", they actually mean " Shut the fuck up and let us do whatever we want". They don't actually give a shit about their country's unity.

 

[Kite]

If the only way for a Democrat to win is the rely on abnormally high turnout from the base.. then it might be wise to expand that base. Especially when it has been shown that they have been willing to vote for Obama in the past. This year they went trump because they felt ignored.

 

[Machina]

This shitshow I'm currently witnessing on Twitter? You want me to be tolerant of THAT? Fuck off.

 

[MUnited83]

It's a shame that many are not heeding your advice for peaceful protest. It makes them even worse then those "deplorable's."

Yeah, because deplorables are being very peaceful themselves and are totally not abusing, harassing and assaulting minorities right now.

This is what you voted for. This is the platform you approved.


Have the dignity to admit you're spitting on my face, not that you're offering me a delicious orange juice. Own this shit, because it's yours.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

You can echo the sentiment that we shouldn't hate on people, because that will never make them join your cause and it will eventually hurt us as a group of people.

Buuut! If you voted for Trump, you voted for someone who represents so many horrible things, and you deserve to be called out on it.

When I voted the last time in Sweden, I would've gladly stood up for my belief in pro-choice, because the party I chose to represent me, is pro-choice. You can twist and turn your argument why, but you will have to stand for all the platforms you chose to represent you.

 

[Apathy]

You mean like how Obama did during his first term? Yeah that turned out great!


The GOP does not want to compromise. IIRC you're not american so I think it's a mistake to view the two parties like you you would in any other country where compromise could be possible. That ship has long sailed in America. Political polarization is far too strong.

You keep saying that we should compromise with his people but how do we do that? How do you compromise with a group of people whose values are based so heavily on lies and misinformation?

Basically this. The Republicans want compromises when it suits them, not actual compromises. If anyone really thinks they will work across the aisle is fooling themselves.

 

[wachie]

At the end of the day, it boils down to this.

Q: Why would you vote for a man who clearly is racist, has many "issues" with women, (insert 1000 other negative traits).

A: Because he said he'll lower my taxes.


That's pretty much it? Fine.

You're not racist. You're not a misogynist. You're not a climate change denier, supporter of sexual assault or believer that LGBT should not have equal rights and what not. You dont believe in executing the families of terrorists, giving Japan nukes, deporting basically every Syrian refugee, banning all muslims.

Your're a squeaky clean, lovely person.

But why do I not get to point my finger at you for voting for a man who clearly represents and stands by those things?

Because you only cared about taxes? Or...what?

White supremacists are feeling like they're relevant now. That was BEFORE Trump even won. People WILL now face more racism in America. I've seen the result from Brexit.

RUDY GIULIANNI will likely be Attorney General........in a time where we are trying to sort out the way police treat minorities in America.

Supreme court justices will not be so favourable towards LGBT communities.

Trump can EASILY repeal executive order Obama made to allow immigrants to have genuine work and life prospects instead of hiding and taking exploitative under the table work.


You voted for a person who will do these things. Why can I not criticise you for it?

I just need to accept that you decided to fuck me over as long as you feel a guy who refuses to manufacture his goods in the USA is going to bring jobs back to the USA, because something something MLK wouldn't be getting all uppity like this?

This mindset of "hey, don't you dare look at me like that! I only like what he said about taxes/elites, that doesn't make me a racist, xenophobe, liar, con artist too!" is both confusing and infuriating.

Bravo.

The people calling for "unity" are just wanting the minorities to roll over and take it.

 

[Joni]

Also, the need to win an election is worth helping to normalize bigotry and bias? Is that where we want to be in a society

More than half the voters supported this platform, while 45% of eligible voters didn't care enough to vote against it. It is already accepted.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Man, early pages are one big graveyard.

Funny thing I've noticed, when talking about the whites who lost their job and are voting for Trump because of it, no one uses the bootstrap argument.

But when Blacks are fucked over by the school system, the law enforcement and the racist bigots, it's all about them bootstraps baby.

If you live in the middle of nowhere and lost your job, you better be white or else you might have to find a different life in this free market economy.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

I don't know if it's about moving to the middle or tolerating as much as taking the first step.

I think we might be trying to drag people over to our side instead of trying to teach.

Should we be the ones to reach out to people who hold untrue, biased views on a number of minorities? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think the point is "who should", but "who will?"

One of the biggest factors that moves people on gay rights is whether or not they're exposed to an LGBT person. Instead of yelling at them for holding those views, we should find those who don't have evil intent by holding those views and have a dialogue.

That's just my sense. There's too much obsessing over who's right and wrong, and who should do the outreach instead of actually doing the outreach.

 

[capitalCORN]

Man, early pages are one big graveyard.

Funny thing I've noticed, when talking about the whites who lost their job and are voting for Trump because of it, no one uses the bootstrap argument.

But when Blacks are fucked over by the school system, the law enforcement and the racist bigots, it's all about them bootstraps baby.

If you live in the middle of nowhere and lost your job, you better be white or else you might have to find a different life in this free market economy.

Why can't the rust belt pick up and leave? I've known friends who left with only a bus ticket and few hundred to show, and still grind their asses back to level in a whole new environment. But better to dig my grave and shoot smack till I die.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Straight up, we saw what happened in the 90s when black people and the left "tolerated".

The Crime Bill that is ruining black lives to this day.

Fuck. That. Nobody's progress is worth that.

 

[Woorloog]

Equality is a binary state. Either people are equal, or they are not.

Everyone has right to be what they are without fear.

There cannot be, there should not be compromise in this.

You can argue for and against universal health care, whether weekends should be workdays or not, whether government should regulate stuff or not, etc. Hell, you can argue against climate change, as stupid as it is.

But you cannot argue against a basic human right. You cannot compromise a basic human right.

 

[G.ZZZ]

And that's a really big problem. What common ground can be found between a gay person and someone who thinks they shouldn't be able to marry? What common ground can be found between a trans person and someone who thinks they shouldn't be able to use the right bathroom?

In those cases, what compromise is there that would make both sides happy?

Dude is like no one ever lived in the real world here. This is how you do it in an extremely religious country : you allow gay marriage, but call it something else and say, for example, that third-party pregnancies will probably be allowed. Lots of people will be all up in arms about it, then after a while you say that yes, we won't allow third-party pregnancies and everyone will feel like it's okay.
Some nutjob extremist may riot, but the rest will say "this shit sucks" on facebook for a week and then go on with its life. After some years, that will be the new normal. If the economy is doing good, the political party that wanted this will win the elections again, and maybe propose to allow third-party pregnancies and something else.

You take and you give. Absolute ethics have no place in politics. Progressing them is more important than having the "perfect" ones. Try working in charities, you will NEVER do the right thing. NEVER, fucking never. You will curse yourself every day at the hopelesness, at the desperation, at your impotence to do big things. However, you will , albeit slowly, albeit little, right some wrongs, and with time, you'll watch back and say "so many people would have it worse if i didn't do this". This is how the world works. We're not asking anyone to work with bigots or accept their ideas. We're asking that you acknowledge that the best possible political sistem for everyone is one were everyone vote for himself, and where, often, interests go in opposite way. Propose something that is good for you and for them too. Propose something that may look unacceptable then dial back on it, and then maybe you'll work on it later. Look at the ACA. Obama had to mutilate it to pass it, but had Clinton won now, we could start from there. The ACA was better than nothing. It saved a lot of people. We could progress on that.

Another example would be reparations for black people. You could propose reparations, and all of america would go in a frenzy. Then after a while, you settle down for "financing and restructuring poor communities neighboroods act", and everyone feel like won something, and you'll improve the minority communities. It become the new normal. In ten years you can maybe talk about more kind of similar acts that are surrogate for reparations. Maybe not. But you lay down the road. This is how it has always worked. Only because race is such a black and white issue for many people, it doesn't mean that it have to be. People come from the most different of backgrounds. There are no monoliths. Listen to different situations, and adapt to them. Had the DNC listened at the rust belt instead of classifying them as just another bloc of white voters which always voted democratic so who give a shit, we may not have to live in the worse possible scenario right now.

 

[capitalCORN]

Dude is like no one ever lived in the real world here. This is how you do it in an extremely religious country : you allow gay marriage, but call it something else and say, for example, that third-party pregnancies will probably be allowed. Lots of people will be all up in arms about it, then after a while you say that yes, we won't allow third-party pregnancies and everyone will feel like it's okay.
Some nutjob extremist may riot, but the rest will say "this shit sucks" on facebook for a week and then go on with its life. After some years, that will be the new normal. If the economy is doing good, the political party that wanted this will win the elections again, and maybe propose to allow third-party pregnancies and something else.

You take and you give. Absolute ethics have no place in politics. Progressing them is more important than having the "perfect" ones. Try working in charities, you will NEVER do the right thing. NEVER, fucking never. You will curse yourself every day at the hopelesness, at the desperation, at your impotence to do big things. However, you will , albeit slowly, albeit little, right some wrongs, and with time, you'll watch back and say "so many people would have it worse if i didn't do this". This is how the world works. We're not asking anyone to work with bigots or accept their ideas. We're asking that you acknowledge that the best possible political sistem for everyone is one were everyone vote for himself, and where, often, interests go in opposite way. Propose something that is good for you and for them too. Propose something that may look unacceptable then dial back on it, and then maybe you'll work on it later. Look at the ACA. Obama had to mutilate it to pass it, but had Clinton won now, we could start from there. The ACA was better than nothing. It saved a lot of people. We could progress on that.

Another example would be reparations for black people. You could propose reparations, and all of america would go in a frenzy. Then after a while, you settle down for "financing and restructuring poor communities neighboroods act", and everyone feel like won something, and you'll improve the minority communities. It become the new normal. In ten years you can maybe talk about more kind of similar acts that are surrogate for reparations. Maybe not. But you lay down the road. This is how it has always worked. Only because race is such a black and white issue for many people, it doesn't mean that it have to be. People come from the most different of backgrounds. There are no monoliths. Listen to different situations, and adapt to them. Had the DNC listened at the rust belt instead of classifying them as just another bloc of white voters which always voted democratic so who give a shit, we may not have to live in the worse possible scenario right now.

Keep making excuses for the disenfranchised. They knew what was on the line. And you know deep well that the right does not compromise.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Also, the need to win an election is worth helping to normalize bigotry and bias? Is that where we want to be in a society?

If the Hilary appealed to the deplorables, not called out Trumps hate...perhaps gave a little dog whistle wink on her own...would her being president have been worth it? I feel that we are back again to where mainstream America uses the "other" as a disposable stepping stone to get what they want. It feels people are up in arms because Trump might fuck up their mainstream normal lives and the minorities (who by and large, did their part in voting for Hillary) are the scapegoat instead of their fellow neighbors.

You don't have to dog whistle man. Look at Sanders. He predicated for the people , talked about their woes, and rallied them against "big money".

A strong enemy and an emphatetic message motivate people. A message of "the other guy suck" don't. I don't want them to talk about the "other guy", i want them to talk about me. That's how the human mind work.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Keep making excuses for the disenfranchised. They knew what was on the line. And you know deep well that the right does not compromise.

Again, you don't need to compromise with the actual right republican party. You need to compromise with the voters. If Clinton campaigned in the Rust Belt and called out to the poors disenfranchised workers of the area, we'd be talking about the republican party implosion, a party where an ex-democrat outsider buffoon ran and wrecked all their candidates and lost on a platform of hate and stupidity. They would have lost an election, and then another, and then they would have changed. There were was an actual thread on this as everyone expected Clinton to win. The Republican party was considered dead, broken and utterly in need of reorganization. I said that it would have changed to become more like the european right, appealing to the old workers disenfranchised by the globalization, like Trump but with less bigotry.
Instead this didn't happen because the DNC didn't focus the message to THE PEOPLE THAT VOTE but on how bad the other platform was.

That shit never fucking worked. It gave us 20 years of political monopoly of the right and far right guided by Berlusconi that was only broken with the depression and europe basically stepping in and dissolving its government.

EDIT: You talk as if Trump won because the racists came out in droves to vote for him. They didn't. The racists always voted Republican and always will probably. What moved this election was the Rust Belt, plain and simple. Trump took less votes, and less votes from whites both in absolute and % terms than Romney. Someone that was called a piece of shit pussy cuck by the racist alt-right.

 

[capitalCORN]

Again, you don't need to compromise with the actual right republican party. You need to compromise with the voters. If Clinton campaigned in the Rust Belt and called out to the poors disenfranchised workers of the area, we'd be talking about the republican party implosion, a party where an ex-democrat outsider buffoon ran and wrecked all their candidates and lost on a platform of hate and stupidity. They would have lost an election, and then another, and then they would have changed. There were was an actual thread on this as everyone expected Clinton to win. The Republican party was considered dead, broken and utterly in need of reorganization. I said that it would have changed to become more like the european right, appealing to the old workers disenfranchised by the globalization, like Trump but with less bigotry.
Instead this didn't happen because the DNC didn't focus the message to THE PEOPLE THAT VOTE but on how bad the other platform was.

That shit never fucking worked. It gave us 20 years of political monopoly of the right and far right guided by Berlusconi that was only broken with the depression and europe basically stepping in and dissolving its government.

The same voters who sold actual lives out for 'jobs' no one can guarantee? And I've posted before, why can't they leave? It is some fucking phantom zone? In the land you call so free? Where a vehicle is a right of passage?

You don't have to dog whistle man. Look at Sanders. He predicated for the people , talked about their woes, and rallied them against "big money".

A strong enemy and an emphatetic message motivate people. A message of "the other guy suck" don't. I don't want them to talk about the "other guy", i want them to talk about me. That's how the human mind work.

You've managed to surmise Hillary's campaign into a 6 second blurb that could easily find home, in the stupid clown show that the media portrays elections. You're well and deep in too, my friend.

 

[Woorloog]

You don't have to dog whistle man. Look at Sanders. He predicated for the people , talked about their woes, and rallied them against "big money".

A strong enemy and an emphatetic message motivate people. A message of "the other guy suck" don't. I don't want them to talk about the "other guy", i want them to talk about me. That's how the human mind work.

Uh, Trump spent a lot of time complaining about Clinton ("the other guy sucks"), etc. Didn't matter in the end.

 

[Joni]

You don't have to dog whistle man. Look at Sanders. He predicated for the people , talked about their woes, and rallied them against "big money".

A strong enemy and an emphatetic message motivate people. A message of "the other guy suck" don't. I don't want them to talk about the "other guy", i want them to talk about me. That's how the human mind work.

And he lost.

 

[G.ZZZ]

The same voters who sold actual lives out for 'jobs' no one can guarantee? And I've posted before, why can't they leave? It is some fucking phantom zone? In the land you call so free? Where a vehicle is a right of passage?


You've managed to surmise Hillary's campaign into a 6 second blurb that could easily find home, in the stupid clown show that the media portrays elections. You're well and deep in too, my friend.

"Oh look at all those poor people, why don't they just leave for somewhere else where they can be less poor?"

I'm deep in what? In understanding how the dynamics of those elections works? In understanding that it's never about the actual policies, never were, and never has been? In seeing all the fucking time the left failing again and again to the same mistake, all over the world, and that seeing that very few people actually can wrap their head around why? On how anti-estabilshment has been a very strong sentiment and has basically created new powerful parties all over europe threatening the classical ones?

 

[G.ZZZ]

And he lost.

In closed primaries, whereas he won most open primaries (lost only 2 iirc) and more importantly, he won the rust belt states.

But fine, if everyone here want to believe that Clinton lost because 50% of america is absolutely unsalvageable, why even talk about politics? You can't work with those people. You can't have progress.

 

[Apathy]

"Oh look at all those poor people, why don't they just leave for somewhere else where they can be less poor?"

That thing immigrants do, sometimes without even the knowledge of the language and yet somehow they become prosperous?

 

[Frozenprince]

In closed primaries, whereas he won most open primaries (lost only 2 iirc) and more importantly, he won the rust belt states.

But fine, if everyone here want to believe that Clinton lost because 50% of america is absolutely unsalvageable, why even talk about politics? You can't work with those people. You can't have progress.

I mean once again it's not outlandish to me that 60 million people are racist.

Trump didn't win 50% of the American peoples vote, he won 60 million votes out of a population of around 350 Million.

So no I don't think it's outlandish to believe that.

 

[pigeon]

In closed primaries, whereas he won most open primaries (lost only 2 iirc) and more importantly, he won the rust belt states.

But fine, if everyone here want to believe that Clinton lost because 50% of america is absolutely unsalvageable, why even talk about politics? You can't work with those people. You can't have progress.

It's helpful to understand reality before you make plans for your safety.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I live in a district in Brooklyn that is predominately Trump voters.

I noticed this morning, my neighbor took down his Pride flag. I'm really saddened.

 

[capitalCORN]

"Oh look at all those poor people, why don't they just leave for somewhere else where they can be less poor?"

I'm deep in what? In understanding how the dynamics of those elections works? In understanding that it's never about the actual policies, never were, and never has been? In seeing all the fucking time the left failing again and again to the same mistake, all over the world, and that seeing that very few people actually can wrap their head around why? On how anti-estabilshment has been a very strong sentiment and has basically created new powerful parties all over europe threatening the classical ones?

Why even play that sentiment when you know the right screams bootstraps when it comes to poor minorities, I've posted this before, I have friends who only had a bus ticket, a bag of luggage, and all the cash they can muster, and they still made it in a new city. The revolt is an emotional one, not an political one. It's about taking all the shit in your life, and throwing at someone else. This is not a mindset you win with reason. Anger is quick and lasting, understanding might as well be eternity. It's demagoguery. And you want to bring an olive branch to a gunfight?

 

[G.ZZZ]

That thing immigrants do, sometimes without even the knowledge of the language and yet somehow they become prosperous?

Is this the real world. Wh... what?

 

[G.ZZZ]

Why even play that sentiment when you know the right screams bootstraps when it comes to poor minorities, I've posted this before, I have friends who only had a bus ticket, a bag of luggage, and all the cash they can muster, and they still made it in a new city. The revolt is an emotional one, not an political one. It's about taking all the shit in your life, and throwing at someone else. This is not a mindset you win with reason. Anger is quick and lasting, understanding might as well be eternity. It's demagoguery. And you want to bring an olive branch to a gunfight?

Why exactly is demagoguery bad if it get a progressive platform elected? Seriously, in times like this where demagogy is at an all time-high in every western nation, why it is the RNC embraced it and the DNC couldn't find a single demagogue candidate? (well it actually did find one but didn't went for it) You're not thinking in pratical terms. Not having a demagogue or at least a very charismatic candidate that speak to the belly of the people lost the DNC the election and ruined million of lives. I don't give a shit about ideological purity, give me an horse dick in the ass and give me a clown nose if it means i can improve things. If it's a Demagogue idealist that win me the election give me it. But really, it sort of have always been, presidents have almost always have been very charismatic figures that promised lots and kept little. And it's not something limited to the US for sure, it's been this way always in my country too, and i guess in many others.

 

[capitalCORN]

Is this the real world. Wh... what?

Have you even experienced immigration? Not the middle class, start a self owned business in a new country one? But one wrought because of desperation because future in your present land is a bleak one. My family did. And frankly, we snuck in. We weren't sponsored, or even had anyone we know here. My dad came first, a year before, to establish whatever foothold be could for his family. When I finally saw him again, a year later, I saw toll that the move took on him in his face. He left all his skills and experience behind, to work 2 full time minimum wage jobs, to keep us afloat. My mom would join in soon, working for the first time in her life, in a country where she didn't even know the language. It was not a pretty life. There was suffering, anger, disappointment, a most often falling short of enough. But my parents stuck through that hell, so that their children could have a better future. And we do, and we honour their sacrifice by taking care of their future now.

Why exactly is demagoguery bad if it get a progressive platform elected? Seriously, in times like this where demagogy is at an all time-high in every western nation, why it is the RNC embraced it and the DNC couldn't find a single demagogue candidate? (well it actually did find one but didn't went for it) You're not thinking in pratical terms. Not having a demagogue or at least a very charismatic candidate that speak to the belly of the people lost the DNC the election and ruined million of lives. I don't give a shit about ideological purity, give me an horse dick in the ass and give me a clown nose if it means i can improve things. If it's a Demagogue idealist that win me the election give me it. But really, it sort of have always been, presidents have almost always have been very charismatic figures that promised lots and kept little. And it's not something limited to the US for sure, it's been this way always in my country too, and i guess in many others.

You preach inclusiveness, but support politics of divide?

 

[Kinitari]

Have you even experienced immigration? Not the middle class, start a self owned business in a new country one? But one wrought because of desperation because future in your present land is a bleak one. My family did. And frankly, we snuck in. We weren't sponsored, or even had anyone we know here. My dad came first, a year before, to establish whatever foothold be could for his family. When I finally saw him again, a year later, I saw toll that the move took on him in his face. He left all his skills and experience behind, to work 2 full time minimum wage jobs, to keep us afloat. My mom would join in soon, working for the first time in her life, in a country where she didn't even know the language. It was not a pretty life. There was suffering, anger, disappointment, a most often falling short of enough. But my parents stuck through that hell, so that their children could have a better future. And we do, and we honour their sacrifice by taking care of their future now.

The idea that for people to solve their problems in a country, they should move to other countries/areas is troublesome for a few reasons. This sort of language is used lazily by lots of conservatives when discussing messed up neighborhoods, ghettos, projects, etc - why don't they just leave if it's bad there? Because it's expensive, difficult, some people will lose their support network, their property, their livlihoods are tied to the land, they are disabled or in some way physically unable to move. And on a more fundamental level, condemning entire communities is so very callous and careless - and people who make those sorts of arguments are rightfully called out for that.

You preach inclusiveness, but support politics of divide?

what politics of divide in this post are you talking about?

 

[capitalCORN]

The idea that for people to solve their problems in a country, they should move to other countries/areas is troublesome for a few reasons. This sort of language is used lazily by lots of conservatives when discussing messed up neighborhoods, ghettos, projects, etc - why don't they just leave if it's bad there? Because it's expensive, difficult, some people will lose their support network, their property, their livlihoods are tied to the land, they are disabled or in some way physically unable to move. And on a more fundamental level, condemning entire communities is so very callous and careless - and people who make those sorts of arguments are rightfully called out for that.



what politics of divide in this post are you talking about?

If my family can sever and move a fucking continent, and suffer for it for so long, to re-establish ourselves the hard way. Why is a mystery that people can on a hop a fucking bus. You're enabling bad behaviour, and don't expect Trumps votes magically flip in four years. they had it in them all this time.

A demagogue is about buying the majority, buy selling out the minority.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

You don't have to dog whistle man. Look at Sanders. He predicated for the people , talked about their woes, and rallied them against "big money".

A strong enemy and an emphatetic message motivate people. A message of "the other guy suck" don't. I don't want them to talk about the "other guy", i want them to talk about me. That's how the human mind work.

Hmm, I see what you're saying.

But I think this still comes back to a large amount of peoples ability to ignore the bigotry as long as their needs are met.

Because I think for the vast majority of minorities, "the other guy suck" IS talking about "me" for them.

Condemning a platform of hate IS directly addressing "me" for them.

But for the greater number of white males, who voted Trump, I guess not.

Condemning bigotry towards minorities, isn't talking to those people. Minority issues I suppose, are not their issues. Its not addressing their specific problems.

Maybe this is that true meaning of the "forgotten" Americans?

While everyone is running around talking about minority groups being scared that a man like Trump could be president, the forgotten majority are sitting there thinking "but what about me? What about my job?".

 

[Kinitari]

If my family can sever and move a fucking continent, and suffer for it for so long, to re-establish ourselves the hard way. Why is a mystery that people can on a hop a fucking bus. You're enabling bad behaviour, and don't expect Trumps votes magically flip in four years. they had it in them all this time.

A demagogue is about buying the majority, buy selling out the minority.

I don't know if a bootstraps argument is the right one. My family moved quite a bit to where I am now, and they did the whole - hard working immigrant with two jobs while going to school thing too. This should not be an expectation for people in a country. Not everyone is going to attempt this, and not everyone who does will be successful - but most importantly, the people who don't do it don't deserve their lot in life - don't you think that's even just a little bit callous?

Do you understand that the rust belt was won in 2012 and 2008, and catastrophically lost in 2016? Are you saying they always voted Republican, in spite of that or what? I'm not sure who you're talking about when you say 'they had it in them all this time'.

 

[jdstorm]

If my family can sever and move a fucking continent, and suffer for it for so long, to re-establish ourselves the hard way. Why is a mystery that people can on a hop a fucking bus. You're enabling bad behaviour, and don't expect Trumps votes magically flip in four years. they had it in them all this time.

Congratulations your family is exceptional. Want a medal? Your arguement is like saying Step Curry can shoot 50% from 3 why cant everyone else. Tom Brady throws touchdowns why cant everyone else?

Dont confuse average behavior with bad behavior. Most students get C's. If you got A's should every student be expected to get an A now. I mean you did it. Why cant everyone?

Your family made a choice to suffer with the hope of a future payoff. That was their choice. Do you really want to blame people for making a choice that they think will end their suffering?

 

[G.ZZZ]

You preach inclusiveness, but support politics of divide?

Divide for what dude? What the fuck seriously. Do you know what are populistic left-wing arguments? They're the most far thing from divide politics. They're all about sharing, taxing, helping the have-nots and whatever. And if that can get people to vote against a racist misoginist and probably war mongering idiot, who give a shit , again, about ideological purity. Progress, at any cost.

 

[Meier]

Anyone who says someone should tolerate this shit isn't a moderate. They're full of shit if they try and claim they are. They're radical.

 

[capitalCORN]

I don't know if a bootstraps argument is the right one. My family moved quite a bit to where I am now, and they did the whole - hard working immigrant with two jobs while going to school thing too. This should not be an expectation for people in a country. Not everyone is going to attempt this, and not everyone who does will be successful - but most importantly, the people who don't do it don't deserve their lot in life - don't you think that's even just a little bit callous?

Do you understand that the rust belt was won in 2012 and 208, and catastrophically lost in 2016? Are you saying they always voted Republican, in spite of that or what? I'm not sure who you're talking about when you say 'they had it in them all this time'.

Our families are not composed of superheroes. Just people taking burden, one step at a time. They don't do it because no one is pushing them. [Redacted with apology]The rust belt gone, there's nothing there. The resources, the money, it's not coming back. If you even have a slight belief in self agency, you know this not much to be asked for. And I'll reiterate again. Don't expect Trump voters to pivot in four

Congratulations your family is exceptional. Want a medal? Your arguement is like saying Step Curry can shoot 50% from 3 why cant everyone else. Tom Brady throws touchdowns why cant everyone else?

Dont confuse average behavior with bad behavior. Most students get C's. If you got A's should every student be expected to get an A now. I mean you did it. Why cant everyone?

Your family made a choice to suffer with the hope of a future payoff. That was their choice. Do you really want to blame people for making a choice that they think will end their suffering?

Thanks for sarcasm. My story is not unique, it is legion. It happening everywhere right now. But if all they want to do is shoot heroin and simply sit their lives out, why do I need to justify their existence?

 

[Kinitari]

Our families are not composed of superheroes. Just people taking burden, one step at a time. They don't do it because no one is pushing them. Like the crocodile tears when a black person is shot by a cop, this is not helpful behaviour. The rust belt gone, there's nothing there. The resources, the money, it's not coming back. If you even have a slight belief in self agency, you know this not much to be asked for. And I'll reiterate again. Don't expect Trump voters to pivot in four years.

But can you see how this sort of mentality is fundamentally broken? What about people who live in neighbourhoods with government housing in my city - some of these neighbourhoods are not great, and the opportunities are less than ideal - should they stop working hard to improve their neighbourhood or should they just move somewhere where it's better?

 

[Bronx-Man]

Like the crocodile tears when a black person is shot by a cop, this is not helpful behaviour.

What a disgusting post.

 

[capitalCORN]

What a disgusting post.

I apologize, it is bad imagery. I will redact.

 

[jdstorm]

Our families are not composed of superheroes. Just people taking burden, one step at a time. They don't do it because no one is pushing them. Like the crocodile tears when a black person is shot by a cop, this is not helpful behaviour. The rust belt gone, there's nothing there. The resources, the money, it's not coming back. If you even have a slight belief in self agency, you know this not much to be asked for. And I'll reiterate again. Don't expect Trump voters to pivot in four years.

So essentially you are saying to a typical "Rust Belter" be like me. Your life as you know it is over. Adapt or die.

While the candidate they voted for told them that he was there for them and he was going to make their lives better.

Can you honestly say that the first option is appealing for that group. The problem s both sides created an us vs them arguement and people sided with the group that met their needs. The group that wasnt calling them racist because of the apperance they were born with. The group that didnt bully and belittle their beliefs.

 

[TaterTots]

I'm a moderate who chose to vote for Clinton in a very red state. If someone is telling you to basically "deal with it" while claiming to be a moderate, then they do not know how to label their political/social views. Truth is, you don't need to "deal with it." You have a voice. Use it if you feel the need. Also, Democrats, do not hesitate to vote the next election. Nothing is ever in the bag.

 

[capitalCORN]

So essentially you are saying to a typical "Rust Belter" be like me. Your life as you know it is over. Adapt or die.

While the candidate they voted for told them that he was there for them and he was going to make their lives better.

Can you honestly say that the first option is appealing for that group. The problem s both sides created an us vs them arguement and people sided with the group that met their needs. The group that wasnt calling them racist because of the apperance they were born with. The group that didnt bully and belittle their beliefs.

I get the appeal of the message, but what quantifiable guarantee that there will a restoration of economy in the area? What actual piece of legal document shows the actual path? And to think that you were called racist, so you decide to vote against minority interest, isn't the prettiest picture.

 

[capitalCORN]

I'm a moderate who chose to vote for Clinton in a very red state. If someone is telling you to basically "deal with it" while claiming to be a moderate, then they do not know how to label their political/social views.

I did not tell anyone to suffer needlessly. I'm making the point that there is such a thing as personal agency. And it's entirely on the individual to engage in it.

 

[Kinitari]

I did not tell anyone to suffer needlessly. I'm making the point that there is such a thing as personal agency. And it's entirely on the individual to engage in it.

How do you feel about what is often characterized as the 'bootstraps' argument, from US conservatives? Do you see any similarities between that and what you are describing?

 

[G.ZZZ]

I'm not gonna engage in a serious discussion around bootstraps in 2016, sorry, i just can't today.