FFXII Zodiac pretty much reworked character progression system from the ground up, something that seem a much bigger deal than balancing Chapter XIII or adding a few cutscenes.
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FFXV's future updates adjust chapters, add cutscenes, add playable characters, more
- Thread starter ULTROS!
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FFXII Zodiac pretty much reworked character progression system from the ground up, something that seem a much bigger deal than balancing Chapter XIII or adding a few cutscenes.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
If SE doesn't make the next FF overly ambitious, there won't be that much problems.
I mean let's compare FFX to the other FFs after that. FFX was set in Spira, had a "fulfilling the Summoner's mission" story, and had 3-4 realized towns with their own NPCs and the story flows very coherently. It's ambitious in terms of pushing the story forward and cinematic direction but the overall world and mythos isn't incredibly ambitious.
I can't speak of FFXII much but as far as I know, it's also ambitious. Hope someone can explain how it was ambitious.
FFXIII was very ambitious because they placed a gigantic mythology behind the story of the FFXIII trilogy and heavily advertised Cocoon and Pulse as big worlds. In the end we got a poorly explained story with a lot of the mythology in the datalog and linear segments which divided the community.
FFXV (Versus more specifically) was also very very ambitious because it was initially set as a trilogy, had to follow the enormous FNC mythology, and it was presented as an open world game. In the end the FNC mythology was scrapped and I guess the trilogy was condensed to one, sacrificing majority of the story segments into background (patches and dlc) stories, and favored the open world aspect more.
Fortunately what FFXV had was a simpler story (but was still ambitious in terms of spreading it out as big as a trilogy) that's not heavily tied with the mythology (since they scrapped FNC) compared to what FFXIII did, which threw a lot of words that were hard to grasp.
SE should make the story plain and simple and when they add a mythology, it's a simple as it gets and doesn't overextend itself. If they do something way too ambitious, a lot will get sacrificed.
Just my 2 cents.
I mean let's compare FFX to the other FFs after that. FFX was set in Spira, had a "fulfilling the Summoner's mission" story, and had 3-4 realized towns with their own NPCs and the story flows very coherently. It's ambitious in terms of pushing the story forward and cinematic direction but the overall world and mythos isn't incredibly ambitious.
I can't speak of FFXII much but as far as I know, it's also ambitious. Hope someone can explain how it was ambitious.
FFXIII was very ambitious because they placed a gigantic mythology behind the story of the FFXIII trilogy and heavily advertised Cocoon and Pulse as big worlds. In the end we got a poorly explained story with a lot of the mythology in the datalog and linear segments which divided the community.
FFXV (Versus more specifically) was also very very ambitious because it was initially set as a trilogy, had to follow the enormous FNC mythology, and it was presented as an open world game. In the end the FNC mythology was scrapped and I guess the trilogy was condensed to one, sacrificing majority of the story segments into background (patches and dlc) stories, and favored the open world aspect more.
Fortunately what FFXV had was a simpler story (but was still ambitious in terms of spreading it out as big as a trilogy) that's not heavily tied with the mythology (since they scrapped FNC) compared to what FFXIII did, which threw a lot of words that were hard to grasp.
SE should make the story plain and simple and when they add a mythology, it's a simple as it gets and doesn't overextend itself. If they do something way too ambitious, a lot will get sacrificed.
Just my 2 cents.
It totally changes the game for the better. Choices on the License Board matter and Esper fights become incredibly meaningful because unlocking them on your board afterwards often unlocks new abilities that can completely alter your play style. The turbo feature, stat changes, controllable guests and Espers, and a rebalancing of armor and weapons add to a vastly improved game. Spells and abilities now being able to break 9999, as well as no longer needing MP for summons were an added bonus.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
As someone who followed this game day 1 since the versus days.... and disappointment and aggravation that we got no news for a long time, I highly expected this to be the best FF yet. I understand it was entirely difficult to fix what Nomura already broke (25 percent complete game) it could have still been a lot better. The game shines in gameplay and exploration and world building but it isn't all there for the player. We were supposed to get to explore every bit of Altissia if I remember correctly.
and the story was promised to be epic that even SE went to the internet and told us to avoid spoilers. I avoided spoilers and now that I have finished this half shell of a game, all I'm left with is disappointment in story and promises that SE made that were fake. All the other continents weren't explorable. I think they even lied about the game size too and the length is the worst lie of them all. If I did no sidequests, I can possibly blitz this in 15 hours. I completed the game at 29 hours... almost 30 but that's because I did numerous sidequests. I didn't overpower myself and didn't lose once to the final boss. It was a huge disappointing battle because I always lose ONCE on any FF final boss. I think the open world design severely killed the story and made it inconsistent. I'm scared for the VII remake after this and I'm scared that XV was released for 60 dollars as a half shell. Nobody should buy this game until it is actually complete. Don't bother disappointing yourself with the mess of a story and lies about hype. I'm severely disappointed in the story and as far as I can tell it is not something easily fixed. Go ahead, SE... do what you want but gathering sales from your half shell game was not a good idea. You should have delayed it and told us the game had severe story problems and needed to be fixed.
Just look at my username, gaf. I had so much hype for this character after following Stella for years. Just imagine my disappointment with
Gentiana? Oh boyyyy
Luna was supposed to join us among other things
Just look at my username, gaf. I had so much hype for this character after following Stella for years. Just imagine my disappointment with
Luna's death early. Oh, but we will put her in the ending as a "monument" sigh...
Gentiana? Oh boyyyy
She will be an important character my arse. She appeared as Shiva and then what... no explanation about how she is Shiva or Luna's follower? C'mon SE. What a letdown of a character
The ambition of the project has nothing to do with how the story and the pacing was a hot mess Ultros.
We know a lot of things about FF15 as a completed product that for some reason are not in the game, or are minimized or not even explored.
Explaining those things has nothing to do with the game's ambition and more to do with how the game itself is structured.
Given more time or more priority, these issues could have been minimized definitely with more cutscenes or priority placed on explaining these things.
They could have been alluded to throughout the first part of the game where nothing actually happens for example.
The game as Versus was only 25% complete when they changed it to 15(in 2012) because nobody was working on it besides a small group since 2006.
Not because it was 'broken'.
We know a lot of things about FF15 as a completed product that for some reason are not in the game, or are minimized or not even explored.
Explaining those things has nothing to do with the game's ambition and more to do with how the game itself is structured.
Given more time or more priority, these issues could have been minimized definitely with more cutscenes or priority placed on explaining these things.
They could have been alluded to throughout the first part of the game where nothing actually happens for example.
The game as Versus was only 25% complete when they changed it to 15(in 2012) because nobody was working on it besides a small group since 2006.
Not because it was 'broken'.
Son Of Sparda
Member
A few lines and cutscenes here and there are supposed to make me care about the character that only was present for 10-15 minutes in a 50-60 hours game?
Look, I loved the ending and main cast, but the story for the most part is just not there at all. This is a game that is using texts during loadings to tell you about important stuff that should get their own extensive cutscenes. There is no defending the incompleteness of FFXV's story.
I'm salivating just reading this.
If SE doesn't make the next FF overly ambitious, there won't be that much problems.
I mean let's compare FFX to the other FFs after that. FFX was set in Spira, had a "fulfilling the Summoner's mission" story, and had 3-4 realized towns with their own NPCs and the story flows very coherently. It's ambitious in terms of pushing the story forward and cinematic direction but the overall world and mythos isn't incredibly ambitious.
I can't speak of FFXII much but as far as I know, it's also ambitious. Hope someone can explain how it was ambitious.
FFXIII was very ambitious because they placed a gigantic mythology behind the story of the FFXIII trilogy and heavily advertised Cocoon and Pulse as big worlds. In the end we got a poorly explained story with a lot of the mythology in the datalog and linear segments which divided the community.
FFXV (Versus more specifically) was also very very ambitious because it was initially set as a trilogy, had to follow the enormous FNC mythology, and it was presented as an open world game. In the end the FNC mythology was scrapped and I guess the trilogy was condensed to one, sacrificing majority of the story segments into background (patches and dlc) stories, and favored the open world aspect more.
Fortunately what FFXV had was a simpler story (but was still ambitious in terms of spreading it out as big as a trilogy) that's not heavily tied with the mythology (since they scrapped FNC) compared to what FFXIII did, which threw a lot of words that were hard to grasp.
SE should make the story plain and simple and when they add a mythology, it's a simple as it gets and doesn't overextend itself. If they do something way too ambitious, a lot will get sacrificed.
Just my 2 cents.
The next FF according to Kitase or Nomura is the VII Remake.
And I'm sure we can already see that they're being ambitious with a multi-game remake project. We don't even know how these will be linked, and I think that goes right into the ambition bit you alluded to at the end of your post.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
The story of XV is completely broken, lol. I blame the development hell of Versus and then rushing it into a twisted mess.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Fortunately the world and mythology of FFVII has been created already and we know how the story will flow. Given that it's an incredibly popular game, dividing it into 3 parts is fine and understandable compared to FFXV, which people aren't sure if it's a make or break game (else it will end up something like the XIII trilogy).
I'd like to ask also, was FFVII's world/story considered ambitious at that time since it's almost similar to FFVI's anyway lol.
In comparison to all the other characters Gentiana is pretty important. It just doesn't feel like it cause none of the other characters are important, not even ones like Regus or Luna.
What did nomura break exactly
Just wait till they add more Genesis and Deep Ground in FF7.
Hopefully its most Zack and Turk stuff
The story as it is now, we don't know the journey of. What we do know is that trailers released as late as this year have a lot of content in them that literally don't exist in the final game.
The dawn trailer which implies a full on backstory of Luna herself in the game literally does not exist in the final game which is mind boggling.
This seems less of Tabata's 15 script not being complete, and more like he had to cut it up into unrecognizable pieces and funnel it through a blender just to put it out there on time.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
It's not being "overly ambitious" that's the problem.
It was thinking that spending prolly over 100 million on a 110+ min CG prologue movie was a good idea, plus all the dumb (and probably expensive) focus on food. Plus developing Luminous at the same time.
XIII's problem wasn't the "overly ambitious" mythology either. It's the mismanaged development plus Crystal Tools that were the issues.
It was thinking that spending prolly over 100 million on a 110+ min CG prologue movie was a good idea, plus all the dumb (and probably expensive) focus on food. Plus developing Luminous at the same time.
XIII's problem wasn't the "overly ambitious" mythology either. It's the mismanaged development plus Crystal Tools that were the issues.
Damn, this reminds me. Kingsglaive's the real loser here. It was built as a loss leader to establish greater brand awareness going into FFXV, and...
... >_>;
I think the only thing we really needed to know was that Insomnia was attacked and Regis got killed. So they could have had a 2 to 3 minute cut-scene of Nifleheim forces raiding the city and killing the king instead of an entire movie Kingsglaive, which essentially alienated a lot of people due to feeling like they had to watch the movie to understand a lot of things.
If they wanted to make the story beats known, i think there were way better ways of doing it than what they settled on
Gamer @ Heart
Member
There is no way, on God's green earth, kingsglaive cost anywhere near the realm of 100 million dollars. That would be spirits within level if batshit stupidity in terms of budgeting.
Also, while 13 did have those issues, its story was the definition of over ambitious because they couldn't even figure out a way to tell you half the lore through the game itself. Half the story in that game is in the menu log.
Dogs and cats living together confirmed. CONFIRMED!
Which leads into them "considering" Luna stuff for DLC
Maybe they shouldnt have changed the beginning of the game
You are insane if you think it cost that much.
Aztechnology
Member
So what you're telling me, is I should wait to play the game, and I should have sold the season pass (I got it during the BB price mistake for the exclusive edition).
Patches might take months to put in, I say jump the gun and play the game. Hell you already bought it and got the season pass.
You can always play it again later when the patches are out, up to the point before the 2 and half. Or even just watch the scenes later on Youtube.
You can play to chapter 9, after that its a ride straight to the end
theofficefan99
Junior Member
How much, then? 60-70 million? It was nearly 2 hours in length, they utilized expensive voice actors, many models, motion capture, and multiple other CG studios to help out.
I mean, it makes sense, considering they used the game's budget for the movie. Game itself has a main story that's like 15 hours long with a little over 2 hours of cutscenes, 8 minutes of which are CG compared to previous FF's 45+ minutes.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think you might have a point. All of the recent FF projects have been borne of big, stupid, feature-creeped design documents.If SE doesn't make the next FF overly ambitious, there won't be that much problems.
I mean let's compare FFX to the other FFs after that. FFX was set in Spira, had a "fulfilling the Summoner's mission" story, and had 3-4 realized towns with their own NPCs and the story flows very coherently. It's ambitious in terms of pushing the story forward and cinematic direction but the overall world and mythos isn't incredibly ambitious.
I can't speak of FFXII much but as far as I know, it's also ambitious. Hope someone can explain how it was ambitious.
FFXIII was very ambitious because they placed a gigantic mythology behind the story of the FFXIII trilogy and heavily advertised Cocoon and Pulse as big worlds. In the end we got a poorly explained story with a lot of the mythology in the datalog and linear segments which divided the community.
FFXV (Versus more specifically) was also very very ambitious because it was initially set as a trilogy, had to follow the enormous FNC mythology, and it was presented as an open world game. In the end the FNC mythology was scrapped and I guess the trilogy was condensed to one, sacrificing majority of the story segments into background (patches and dlc) stories, and favored the open world aspect more.
Fortunately what FFXV had was a simpler story (but was still ambitious in terms of spreading it out as big as a trilogy) that's not heavily tied with the mythology (since they scrapped FNC) compared to what FFXIII did, which threw a lot of words that were hard to grasp.
SE should make the story plain and simple and when they add a mythology, it's a simple as it gets and doesn't overextend itself. If they do something way too ambitious, a lot will get sacrificed.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm a designer myself, and I know that any idiot can say "the project should have this, and this, and this, and this..." like a 7 year old telling his mother about some crazy unrealistic plan he has (*ahem*... Nomura).
It really doesn't matter what ideas you say should be in the project before you do it... that's not genius. That's idiocy, actually. Speccing out a modest and realistic project and nailing it is genius.
Here's the irony about everyone whining about the loss of Versus XIII and Stella, etc.... they should have cut more. The whole premise was unrealizable as a project.
So basically Suckerpunch?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The movie? I think there's an analogy in self-indulgence to be made there.
I reckon the upper limit of Kingsglaive's budget would be maybe 50 million. Even that seems somewhat excessive. The most expensive CG film made in Japan so far is Captain Harlock from 2013, and that cost 30 million. Kingsglaive could have cost more if they overpaid for the western contractors, but considering the outsourcing was to a lot of independent contractors rather than the bigger VFX studios in the US, probably not.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The mismatch combining "female emancipation" with "geeky male power fantasy dream sequences" and even musical numbers (cut from the theatrical film)....
...it reminds me of the mismatch between "a prince who tragically loses his father and his kingdom" and "totes adorable bromantic road trip to meet your bride".
I have nothing wrong with wild packages of different ideas, though. It just needs to be deliverable. And FFXV's original ambition basically wasn't.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Very agree. You can tell on paper they thought they'd get a scope reduction (no need to create the invasion sequence), and a real Hollywood movie (loooool), all in one fell stroke.
The whole Kingsglaive plan combined with the vacuum of XV's opening is so much less than the sum of its parts.
Yep. Exactly. A swing and a miss.
The mismatch combining "female emancipation" with "geeky male power fantasy dream sequences" and even musical numbers (cut from the theatrical film)....
...it reminds me of the mismatch between "a prince who tragically loses his father and his kingdom" and "totes adorable bromantic road trip to meet your bride".
I have nothing wrong with wild packages of different ideas, though. It just needs to be deliverable. And FFXV's original ambition basically wasn't.
Man what made Warner dare to put money behind that? Were they that impressed by 300 success that they trusted the guy.
Then again they are the company that let the Wachowskis do like 2 high budget crazy sci-fi films.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
At the time, even I was convinced Snyder was a rising genius. Dawn of the Dead and 300 were strikingly original visions. Literally everything he's touched since then as dragged my opinion of him so far down that I wouldn't even watch a movie with his name on it.
Not even films he produced like the epic blockbuster Suicide Squad!
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Honestly, during this whole "story fixing" I hope they do a Luna playable segment to at least flesh her out because after completing the game I absolutely see no reason for her importance in FFXV other than being a
for the main character. That's not what I wanted. I had hopes of a female with her own resolve, one that will motivate herself to fight back, not to
My god, the marketing SE did with Luna was correct... she really was
plot device
protect her beloved.
hopeless
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Well, write some fan-fiction then!
There's no way that playable sections with Luna would fit in organically with the game/story as it stands because it hinges on her being separated from Noctis.
There's also very significant mechanical issues with having a character not part of the core party as a playable character; I mean every system in the game is built around Noctis' powers and those of his retinue.
Think it through from a gameplay/flow standpoint:
Consider how badly some people have lost their shit over the one part of the game (Chapter 13) where they switch off those powers/open-world access, do you really think people are going to be happy playing as a character who's not even a fighter for extended sections?
SoulUnison
Banned
Where would this even fit in-game, though? They'd have to create an entirely new scenario or completely re-work the events around
Leviathan
Luna
rayman1900
Member
Chapter 13 is too long, but I got a few ideas to make it better :
1. Cut the first part
2. The stealth :
3. The story :
4. The gameplay :
Anyway, other than that, I found the chapter really interesting, but as I said, the major problem is that it's too long overall.
1. Cut the first part
from where you have to open doors with cards. Make an elevator to go directly to the laboratory from the starts, after at least 1 or 2 corridors of stealth.
Make it so that you see the enemy patrolling as a red dot on the mini map ALL the time. If you could see the enemy on the mini-map, you could learn his patrol pattern and find ways to bypass him, just like in MGS1.
Make the story of the origin of daemons and magiteck be told by audio books that plays while you progress, and make them evident to pick up, since they are essential to the story. If you can play music via an MP3 player, you can surely do that, no?
I find the warp to another dimension power very OP, and was relying on using it more than death or holy. Make those last 2 equally powerful if you want the player to experiment. Also, make it so the player could find some weapons along the way and let him equip it as he progress.If Noctis can't invoke weapon, I'm sure he can still hold a sword in his hand without invoking it, you know, like sword fighting normally without any phasing powers.
Tldr: Make the character retrieve his power progressively.
Tldr: Make the character retrieve his power progressively.
Anyway, other than that, I found the chapter really interesting, but as I said, the major problem is that it's too long overall.
Gentiana also probably has one of the coolest cutscenes in the whole game
when she shuts Ardyn up and freezes him by putting her finger on his lips
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
So is the PS4 Pro patch for December now going to be rolled into the first patch instead of coming out separate? Would love more details on when the Pro patch is coming.
PshycoNinja
Member
Completely off topic, but KZXcellent do you have a YT channel that goes by KZ?
I've seen some of your reactions dude. They're pretty entertaining.
I've seen some of your reactions dude. They're pretty entertaining.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
This... I'm aching to play more but if it's going to have a fixed camera and lock on, better performance, a fixed chapter, and a decent amount of new cutscenes... I'd rather wait
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Think about it this way, if you waited for every game to be finished updating, you are likely never even going to get to fully experience the game because by that time servers will likely be turned off. This is the reality for most modern day AAA games, they get updated for months or even years.
This is a flawed, but highly reviewed game that most people seem to be enjoying and i highly doubt they are adding more than a couple of minutes worth of cutscenes. If you want to play it then a game then play it.