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New Horizon: AMD New ZEN CPU Preview Event
- Thread starter Hawk269
- Start date
RenegadeXV8
Banned
Was just about to post this. Everyone screaming for a price now is completely forgetting that it is one of the biggest factors when it comes to out-maneuvering competition. If AMD revealed a $499 pricepoint for Ryzen, Intel would just cut their 6-core price by $100 tomorrow and tell people to stop waiting and buy that 6850k now.
Hell, Kaby Lake reviews are already out and those prices haven't been officially revealed, either.
Did you also miss Battlefield 1?
And they compared Dota 2 streaming with a 6900k as well, not just an overclocked 6700k.
Frankfurter
Member
What country are talking about specifically? This is not a "Europe" thing, unless Germany and also Austria aren't part of Europe.
Indeed, for that price... I'll build my new righ tomorrow. Nice VEGA with a nice Ryzen 8 core in it. But... you just know that European Bitcoiners will buy up VEGA like crazy, and that price will be higher than the 1080TI in Europe
Bitcoin mining is a serious issue for AMD's market, that they need to address. Maybe release bit coin mining version of VEGA that is about the same price but without a display port of any kind? If they don't they'll never make it back into the gaming GPU market as the miners are basically ruining their image.
Bitcoins have switched to specialized chips for mining for about the past two years. Alt coins may still use GPUs though.
Papacheeks
Banned
It's not going to 600$. I can assure you, maybe their server line of cpu's. But this is going to compete in the $300+ range. High end being $499, low end being 299. And this was a entry level model. They said they start at 3.4ghz, so there will be variants.
If their base cpu is under 400 it's a no brainer.
I am seriously excited for this. Hope it does what they showed and is in a good price range.
As former posters wrote, it doesnt make sense to announce a price now.
They will wait until they are closer to launch to see how the market develops after today. We don´t have enough hard data yet to know everything, but we know that they are somewhere in Intels ballpark. If Zen is a little slower than Broadwell it doesnt really matter because they can undercut Intel AND they managed to develop a somewhat competitive CPU for a fraction of the price. Actually its a miracle that a cash-strapped company like AMD pulled something like this off.
Also, i doubt that if Zen offers performance somewhere around Intels offerings that they would just go balls to the wall and fuck every sense of economics. They will be cheaper, but they wont offer something like this for nothing.
They will wait until they are closer to launch to see how the market develops after today. We don´t have enough hard data yet to know everything, but we know that they are somewhere in Intels ballpark. If Zen is a little slower than Broadwell it doesnt really matter because they can undercut Intel AND they managed to develop a somewhat competitive CPU for a fraction of the price. Actually its a miracle that a cash-strapped company like AMD pulled something like this off.
Also, i doubt that if Zen offers performance somewhere around Intels offerings that they would just go balls to the wall and fuck every sense of economics. They will be cheaper, but they wont offer something like this for nothing.
martino
Member
Indeed, for that price... I'll build my new righ tomorrow. Nice VEGA with a nice Ryzen 8 core in it
Bitcoin mining is a serious issue for AMD's market, that they need to address. Maybe release bit coin mining version of VEGA that is about the same price but without a display port of any kind? If they don't they'll never make it back into the gaming GPU market as the miners are basically ruining their image.
i don't really expect vega (and i can deal going the best cpu solution next year and keep my 980ti)
but my i7 950 need to be replaced.
The presentation was boring but pretty effective. Try to imprint in everyone's mind that Ryzen performance = 6900k ($1100) performance. The most expensive GPU on the market will hit its limit at 4k before Ryzen does.
Doesn't mean anything to me personally until they are comparing performance of unlocked i5 priced parts matched with less than <$300 GPUs.
Doesn't mean anything to me personally until they are comparing performance of unlocked i5 priced parts matched with less than <$300 GPUs.
I'm in nearly the same boat: i7 860 (purchased 6 years ago lol) and a gtx 970, and just started doing VR and get occasional stutter. Usually just the Lab loading screens are bad enough I need to close my eyes. Everything else works well.
I was thinking of Kaby Lake, but will hold tight until more details and reviews are out on both.
Papacheeks
Banned
Way too early at the moment. Probably February is when we will start to see leaks from 3D mark and such for these cpu's.
Wat? In no universe are Bitcoin miners buying GPUs today. I don't know where in europe you live but a rx480 isn't approaching 1070 prices (I'd like to see proof of that).
Norway mostly, but even in the Netherlands, ordering from Germany. That RX480 certainly is NOT below 200 bucks as promised. They get bought by Bitcoin miners as they are more efficient and use less power than the earlier GCN cards. I mean get a 1060 for like a few bucks more... and some of the overclocked (as I said SOME) 8gb's are close to cheap 1070's.
Look it up man.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M63W0CK/
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M2WXRRZ/
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01K1JTT8S/
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01INKRH2M/
Not sayign you should buy that, as you can get a 8GB RX480 for under 300, but it makes you think, some of those overclocked ones are pricey fuckers.
You can get a cheap 1070 for that and have a better card. And why? Because the price is driven up by people using that card to mine. It is a lot more efficient than the previous GCN cards. The 1060 6GB is just cheaper and performs better.... sorry but please don't deny that. We have to be brutal and honest with AMD, as fans, or they'll never improve. Those Sony and MS dollars keep them a float, and they don't care if bitcoin miners buy their cards as a "sale is a sale". But it is ruining their gaming image.
If we want them to improve, we need them to help us out... get our grubby hands on those sub 200 RX480's 8gb's ...then we are talking!
those prices are total bs, http://www.mindfactory.de/product_i...Single-Fan-Aktiv-PCIe-3-0-x16--R_1127871.html 200€ 4gb red dragon 480
and 8gb sapphire nitro were available for 230-250€
You'd be surprised. It isn't all FPGA, some idiots are still mining with GPU"s. Don't underestimate the RX480's flop count.
http://cryptomining-blog.com/7911-amd-radeon-rx-480-polaris-is-now-official-and-looks-promising/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1584834.0
http://www.helenabitcoinmining.com/...age-of-amd-radeon-rx-480-for-ethereum-mining/
It is a very efficient little parallel processing unit.
How about you stop propagating this nonsense. And if they are, it is at best hobbyists, the power economics in europe simply don't favour GPUs any more.
Those links aren't for Bitcoin mining. It is for Ethereum.
but that makes the test known quantity... if they put some upcoming card there people would claim it is rigged... now you have biggest card + latest cpu for test.
DO they deliver to Norway? Or is it a German Only thing?
Also the 3GB GTX 1060 (even with less shaders than it's larger sibling) still beats it for the same price. AMD needs to get that thing well under that price and offer more performance for less, or people will keep going for Nvidia. So if they perform "as well" as a 3GB GTX 1060 (and then I'm being kind here..) they should offer it for 175 in Europe.. otherwise people will keep going for "what they know". Which is Nvidia.. and believe me I don't like the dominance Nvidia has at the moment, it is .. very annoying.
Amazon btw does deliver to Norway.
Inspectah_Deck
Member
A lot of Ethereum miners use RX 480 in their rigs, like this one:
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/8301/6x-rx480-first-rig-success
Saw some insane farms on that forum.
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/8301/6x-rx480-first-rig-success
Saw some insane farms on that forum.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Edit. Was I misinformed?
480 is more powerful than the 3gb 1060 and is pretty much identical to the 6gb version. Cheapest 4gb 480 is 200NOK cheaper than cheapest 3gb 1060 in Norway currently.
And it's exactly the same with 8gb vs 6gb versions. I don't know where you get your prices from really. So really they're already doing what you're asking from them.
Frankfurter
Member
Why would you link to way overprized amazon offers? I'm sure, I'll be able to find a 1060 6GB for 400 if I search enough.
480 8GB is available starting at ~245, 480 4GB available starting at ~199 (which is slightly below 200 just like promised
AMD never promised the 8GB version to be 200 btw.), see: http://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&asd=on&asuch=rx 4801060 6GB starts at 260, i.e it's slightly more expensive!
And I'm absolutely gonna have to deny that 1060 is faster than RX 480, because it isn't if you look at their current performance:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...945-gtx-1060-vs-rx-480-updated-review-23.html
I compared the extremes. of the 8GB (as I stated some models) you can get a nice 6GB 1060 model for a little more than the 4GB model and a 3GB 1060 for the same price. Both cards outperform the RX480 in quite a few benchmarks. So AMD needs to undercut them, and be a "good deal!" so people are willing to switch. It now is a bloody fanboy thing, were fanboys buy the cards and defend them zealously. Issue with that is.. there are NEVER enough Fanboys.
Get that 4GB card to 175 euros and the 8 gb to 190! THen we are talking! As the price difference between the 8GB RX480 vs the 6GB 1060 is then almost 100 bucks.... then people start thinking "I can get almost the same performance out of that 480! and put that 100 bucks in my pocket!".
Now it's a difference of 30 till 50 bucks and in case of the 3Gig 1060... it isn't even a difference.
Tallshortman
Member
I'll probably finally upgrade my 2600k if Zen reviews well.
Why would you link to way overprized amazon offers? I'm sure, I'll be able to find a 1060 6GB for 400 if I search enough.
480 8GB is available starting at ~245, 480 4GB available starting at ~199 (which is slightly below 200 just like promised
1060 6GB starts at 260, i.e it's slightly more expensive!
And I'm absolutely gonna have to deny that 1060 is faster than RX 480, because it isn't if you look at their current performance:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...945-gtx-1060-vs-rx-480-updated-review-23.html
In practical game tests the 1060 is winning. I know that in some DX12 tests the RX480 is winning. But just look at the DX 11 (which is 90% of all the games out there!) OpenGL and even Vulcan tests.. and the 1060 pulls ahead.
https://www.hardwareunboxed.com/rx-480-8gb-vs-gtx-1060-6gb-battle-of-the-mid-range-contenders/
The moment you go to DX11 and openGL Nvidia has AMD beat. Now I do agree, DX12 is were the future is headed, but we aren't there right now... and a faster adoption of AMD cars would actually speed us along on that path. Sadly though, AMD will have to price themselves better (As I keep saying over and over here, and I'll stop after this post, as AMD fans will soon pile on me like crazy if I keep at this... so it becomes pointless).
Maybe with the Driver issues Nvidia had as of late, people will look to the AMD cards as a good replacement (VEGA when it launches), but that is a long shot. As it is now, gamers are where Nvidia is at, and if you want them on your Birthday party? You're going to have to offer more cake for that same gift price.. or the same cake for a better gift price.
AMD is looking at the latter. Better DX 12 equal or worse DX11 performance... (as I've stated the whole time and then I'm being kind on the DX11 front). So the gift price for the party has to be ALOT lower for the cake they are handing out!
Inspectah_Deck
Member
This thread is about Zen, please stay on topic.
Also this has been discussed to hell and back.
Also this has been discussed to hell and back.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Sounds really promising. Going toe-to-toe with the 6900k... that's more than I think anyone expected.
Old benchmarks, pretty much 4-8% improvements across the board for 480 since those benchmarks were made. Which pretty much makes up for the performance deficit. One big reason to get AMD is Freesync, as you can get freesync monitors for sub $200 and G-sync is generally at least $100 more. Adaptive sync is a big difference especially in games where you cant get a solid 60.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
CPU price will be really really competitive, and there will be officially announced at CES,
if bench are reliable also on real world application and setup, matching what AMD shown to pc vendors in previous weeks, I7 cpu (quad core or exacore )must be repriced into short term
and I'm more curious about Apple roadmap, if they will support AMD on some sku ( maybe an iMac or Mac Pro with server cpu ) then cpu market will be finally revitalized after so many years of slow speed bump
if bench are reliable also on real world application and setup, matching what AMD shown to pc vendors in previous weeks, I7 cpu (quad core or exacore )must be repriced into short term
and I'm more curious about Apple roadmap, if they will support AMD on some sku ( maybe an iMac or Mac Pro with server cpu ) then cpu market will be finally revitalized after so many years of slow speed bump
This should be enough for a lot of us to head over to Team Red. If the price is right I have no reservations seeing as how the differences between Intel and AMD will essentially become a wash and my upgrade options on AMD will always be far more flexible, cheaper, and in turn have longer legs thanks to "solid" platforms.
Buying new motherboards for every new CPU upgrade is what keeps me from upgrading the CPU at all.
Buying new motherboards for every new CPU upgrade is what keeps me from upgrading the CPU at all.
thelastword
Banned
Why is that a bad thing, they had the best single GPU available to test RyZen's performance in a few games.......It's not a bad thing to use a competitors product is such tests, especially if the competitors product is the leading product in a specific performance scale. That's being transparent and avoids any talk of fake stats etc...The other thing is they could not show Vega yet, they basically gave a glimpse of it but could not show anything because it's not officially unveiled yet.
All in all, very impressive CPU shown, the raw hardware specs are more than enough to indicate that AMD is ready for primetime. 8/16 cores/threads, 3.4GHz clock, 20MB cache, 95 Watt TDP. A boost clock that may very well touch 3.9-4.0GHz when it's fully unveiled is quite remarkable.
What really pushes it over the line is all the efficiencies that come with the new hardware, XFR and Smart Prefetch for example. The ability to auto-overclock based on your cooling solution is pretty nice. The introduction of un-constrained fp16 operations are also great and we will see that used in many console games and future games going forward with a huge draw in neural network programs for research etc....PS4 really needs to have a folding at home app again.
Can't wait in early Jan (CES) for the full unveil with benchmarks et al, and the 17th of Jan for Vega's reveal, January will be very interesting. I do think AMD accomplished what they wanted though...They wanted to keep Zen and Vega on people's minds throughout the holidays or even those considering building a new machine atm.......Ehhh, how about minds kept on the whole AM4 platform with some really promising, yet very impressive AMD parts....I think they've done that. I'm already jonesing for a full AM4 build with Ryzen and Vega in the new year.
I doubt the 4C/4T and 4C/8T bins will be significantly cheaper than 7600K/7700K, in the tens of dollars at most. If they have a large pricing advantage it will be on 6/8-core bins, especially because Zen is only dual channel and less PCI-e lanes resulting in cheaper platform cost vs X99.
I'm not so sure. Considering Skylake has higher IPC and clocks than Broadwell-E. Can they really sell 4C4T just ten bucks cheaper? Depends on how well Ryzen 4C clocks I guess. But unless it exceeds the clockrate of their Kaby Lake CPUs and considering their brand recognition is lower I'm expecting the price difference to be bigger than that.
Buggy Loop
Member
So wait..
They managed to get their shit together for IPC performances? Toe to toe with intel in IPC and @ lower TDP ?
If this is priced right, AMD is finally back in.
They managed to get their shit together for IPC performances? Toe to toe with intel in IPC and @ lower TDP ?
If this is priced right, AMD is finally back in.
Indeed, for that price... I'll build my new righ tomorrow. Nice VEGA with a nice Ryzen 8 core in it
Bitcoin mining is a serious issue for AMD's market, that they need to address. Maybe release bit coin mining version of VEGA that is about the same price but without a display port of any kind? If they don't they'll never make it back into the gaming GPU market as the miners are basically ruining their image.
Wait... You want AMD to stop making gpus that people are buying?
What they should do is make more gpus. Economies of scale and all that. Make enough to satisfy both the miners and the gamers.
Beerman462
Member
AMD has slowly been regaining market share without sacrificing their already slim profit margins. Looking at older benchmarks and even new ones the two cards are very comparable performance wise. If you look at the benchmarks the other post linked to they trade blows on every other benchmark. If I go to New Egg right now you can get the 480 4GB for $190 and the 1060 3GB for the same. I wouldn't buy either considering you can get 8GB 480s starting at $220(with rebate) including a power red devil. That seems way more compelling to me personally. I have a 1070 and it's a great card, but some minor driver issues that I didn't have with my 7870 have bothered me.
Bob Coffee
Member
Can someone translate these stats into the new db super level powerscale?
Intel CPU is like super saiyian blue goku always one upping and staying ahead of vegeta in power level.
AMD new CPU is like old super saiyain 2 trunks powering up past super saiyian blue beating up super saiyian rose black goku out the middle of no where. Transformations don't meant shyt no more that is if the gains they say they made are accurate.
I hope that clears it up.
No, you won't have a 90W CPU in your console.
exmachina64
Banned
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Just saw the specs, sounds good, sure. Need to see how much it will cost. I can say I'm impressed with the TDP though, good job amd.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It will probably be based on the architecture since scalability was part of their design. Zen is supposed to replace both the higher end Steamroller and low power Cat families. But yeah, what was shown today is not going to be a console CPU.