Herp Derpington
Member
Nice. Yeah we should be in for a treat then. I love the design of the S.
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Microsoft Is Facing Its Biggest Challenge Since The Launch of XB1 (XboxAchievements)
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
Nice. Yeah we should be in for a treat then. I love the design of the S.
Dash_Riprock
Member
You're assuming MS will still be in the game if the Scorpio isn't a hit. I though last year's E3 made it perfectly clear what their game plan is if the Scorpio is a dud.
Stormforger
Banned
WOW was just an example. Yes, you can play both Doom and Crysis on 8 year old PCs, just not as good as you can on today's PCs.
I don't see why your being so resistant to this idea. Sony will end up doing the same thing with the PS...
I am sure at some point, you will no longer be able to play future games on today's systems... Just like PCs...
The benefit of not having Console Generations any more is that people who want to upgrade and have the most powerful system with the best graphics, can upgrade. People who are not ready to upgrade don't have to... New games will work on their current system for a good long while. Is this not a good thing?
Yup, this isn't hard to understand.
Stormforger
Banned
You do realize that the Xbox One is selling BETTER than the 360 was and Microsoft was VERY HAPPY and profitable with the 360? Why do you think that Microsoft is walking some fine line where they may get out of the Gaming/Console market?
Also, you do realize that besides Life Insurance, Sony's only profitable business is the PS4. Everything else Sony makes is losing money, so if they have any profitability issues with the PS4, they are in a world of hurt... Unlike Microsoft which is wildly profitable across multiple markets. (Windows 10, Windows Server, SQL, Asure, Office, Xbox, etc....)
Also, how did Microsoft make it perfectly clear that Scorpio would be a dud at E3? Everyone I know is super excited for it... Everyone I talk to at GameStop and Best Buy, etc..
Now, why is Sony not talking about PS4 Pro numbers? Why are even PS Lovers like IGN and multiple other outlets saying that there is no need to upgrade to a PS4 Pro if you already own a PS4? I know I have not interest in upgrading my PS4, where as I am defiantly getting a Scorpio.
LOL, it's not selling better than 360 and Scorpio won't be much more powerful than Ps4 Pro, plus Pro will outsell it 4:1 next holiday.
Stormforger
Banned
They don't do this on Windows. In fact, developers of Windows games allow their games to run a VERY WIDE range of PCs... Low end to high end.
Why are consoles any different?
All caps would really help make your point except, Xbox One is currently behind Xbox 360, launch aligned.
Stormforger
Banned
Why is it that when people have nothing good to say, they just try to rag on someone's grammar or use of Caps?
theres no way to tell anything about holiday 2017 right now. they didnt even properly reveal scorpio how can you even make statements like that ? 4:1 ? no way thats happening
hanspampel
Banned
so while ps4 is outselling xb1 about 2:1 you expect the ps4 pro to outsell the xbox scorpio 4:1?
where do you see that massive 100% increase come from?
or did i just miss a joke somewhere in that post?
Well, actually, I corrected your erroneous claim about Xbox One sales, and took the opportunity to make fun of your use of caps.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm pretty sure that's just in your imagination.
Microsoft is neck deep in hardware now and they're currently in a nice groove in that their hardware is well designed and selling well.
The only thing Microsoft has made abundantly clear is that they plan to keep making as much Microsoft hardware as possible (accessories included) and want as many Windows 10 machines out there as possible.
Is this is the new PS4 wont be that much more powerful than the Xbone excuse?
Also I would like to purchase your time machine.
Stormforger
Banned
Ah... Can you please link to an article that says my claim is erronious? I posted a link stating that the XB One was outselling the 360 at the same point in the generation.
LukasTaves
Member
I agree, but didn't sony all but said that generations has to have a reset and that Pro wasn't a new generation, but Ps5 would?
The biggest point is, do they have a choice with PS4? I mean, they didn't even allowed a puny overclock on the cpu side to be seen by unpatched games. I'm sure that for Ps5 going forward they will make their development environment more portable to other hardware, but that ship may have sailed for Ps4.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Yup.
My philosophy has always been to be more critical of the things/ideas/people that I love or care about, not less. If I didn't care or hated something I wouldn't even waste time criticizing it. What would be the point if I couldn't care less how it did either way?
This whole idea of if I love something, I have to love nearly everything about it unconditionally is wrong. That's not love, that's some odd form of blind obsession.
For instance, I've seen some people on this forum somehow take offense when people talk about the lack of Japanese niche games on the Xbox. "I hate every game that's made by the Japanese, who cares!? LOL this thread!" Ok... if you hate Japanese games that's your prerogative but taking offense when other people want Japanese games on the console is dumb, real dumb. I dislike certain genres of games too, but I'd still want them to come to the consoles because that will in turn bring in the people who do like those games, which in turn will indirectly benefit me because a larger userbase, means better support from the platform holder ultimately. Kinda a rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing.
Yeah, they are going to market the helluva out of Scorpion and it'll sell a ton. I have zero doubt it will.
Stormforger
Banned
I think Sony's biggest challenge is on the software and server side. They have always had the weaker OS (Not being able to do as many things, i.e.: Expand storage) and online service.
Microsoft os good at both of those things and they are getting pretty darn good at hardware.
You mistakenly linked to an article from January, 2016.
Here's more recent data:
https://www.superdataresearch.com/nintendo-switch-the-superdata-take/
For your reference, the Xbox 360 was at 28.5 million shipped at the end of 2008.
Stormforger
Banned
Ah, OK. But, Microsoft is still profitable with the Xbox One, so my original point of Microsoft thinking about getting out of the game market, still stands. They are not going to get out, in fact, they are doubling down.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Where do we have info on this?
The fact that almost immediately after initial release the xbo has been forced to rely on massive price cuts to stay at the point it currently is (trailing behind its predecessor and half the sales of its competitor) I seriously doubt the xbo is profitable all things considered.
I appreciate games sales can make up for selling consoles at a loss but we have seen time and time again xbo exclusives failing to light charts on fire and multiplatform games heavily favouring ps4 most times. How you expect them to be profitable when selling less consoles (at a loss too) and less games compared to the previous gen I don't know.
The Salt Life
Banned
What ps4 titles lit charts on fire? Besides Uncharted
No Mans Sky was a disaster
As was The Order
Street Fighter 5 did not live up to or even come near what someone would consider expectations
That's $120 spent off of GAF hype alone ($180 if you consider Last of Us, which I just couldn't get into, but I know it's well loved so that doesn't count what I listed earlier.)
Both camps have had their misses.
Financially one of these companies are better off than the other, then again only one of these companies is relying on their gaming division to stay a float.
Like the poster said a few dings up
There will be no next gen, it will be incremental updates with graphical choices.
Dirtyshubb
Member
First of all I agree that both systems have had first party games underperform, it's inevitable (although Nms actually sold well but has killed all future hype for the game for most) but the difference is that Sony have tonnes more compared to Microsoft so even if they simply perform average that's still profit xbo isn't seeing all while Sony are earning more money on multiplatform games.
Also your point about TLOU seems misplaced, my point wasn't about your preference in games but of the success of Sony exclusives and TLOU is one of those big successes that will no doubt pay off even more with increased awareness and trust in the sequel.
Finally this tired excuse of 'microsoft has tonnes of money, they can buy their way out of trouble unlike sony' is just Bullshit. Yes the money aspect is true but that doesn't mean they will keep giving the games division money if it's not worth it. The original xbox was a complete money sink, the 360 didn't make nearly as much money as it could have due to rrod (it seemingly only made money towards the second half of its life) and the xbo has most likely also lost them a tonne of money all things considered.
Do you think the Microsoft execs are just going to be happy pumping money into something that not only doesn't return their investment but also doesn't fit the new heads internal vision for the company all while seemingly losing its audience? This is the same company that shut down lionhead because they 'only' trippled their initial investment.
I'm not saying Sony doesn't have its own issues but their success in the gaming space is monumental and vastly outperforms Microsofts when you look at the big picture. Hell sonys worst home console sold as many as Microsofts best did.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Found this from 2015, Ken Lobb on revisiting old ip, I wonder how they are getting on with that
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...Dark-and-Blast-Corps-titles-Xbox-One-Xbox-360
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...Dark-and-Blast-Corps-titles-Xbox-One-Xbox-360
LukasTaves
Member
Upon release there were no price cuts, there was the removal of Kinect and a drop in price accordingly.
Scorpio will be significantly more powerful than Pro. It's a true next-gen console, insofar as one can even say that generations still exist. Pro itself isn't moving impressively at all.
Xbox One did not receive a price cut between November 2013/June 2014, when the Kinect was removed. The next price cut happened that December (ran until early January 2015) for a mere $50, at which point it returned to $399. I believe the next price cut was in 2016, when it finally hit $299, just before the Xbox One S released.
That's super healthy.
Dirtyshubb
Member
So the price did drop?....
I know you mean they simply passed on the savings so didn't necessarily lose money but I believe the initial high cost was due to the memory set up and board so dropping the Kinect May not have been enough to offset any potential loss
A price cut and a price drop are literally the same thing.
Xbox One was available for no less than $500 at launch and then, six months later, you could buy one for $400.
NoHeDidn't
Member
I'll help you understand in one word.....PRICE.PS4 Pro cost $400 while Scorpio will be costing more (dem specs) and upscaling older games won't fly.
MS has said Scorpio will be a "high end" system with a "high end" price so no way will they sell if they only promise older games uprezzed via patch.Sony gets away with patched pro games because price point and it was billed as emulated 4k.Now Scorpio is being pushed as native 4k console that mean games will have to be built with native 4k in mind.
Also why do people keep pitching the "MS makes tonnes of monies outside gaming"? Seriously how does that affect us as gamers? I find it super ironic that the "struggling" Sony is leading 2:1 with a legendary gaming and developer portfolio leading to more choices in genres.
SeanIfOnly
Neo Member
Time for them to pull out their checkbook. I am sure we are going to see some mind melting graphics at this years E3 with the Scorpio but I do think the way most will experience it is if they have a 4k TV. I for one don't plan on upgrading mine anytime soon. I could see a world where the Switch (after it gets a few games out) starts to eat into MS's lead leaving Microsoft in 3rd place this generation. I love my Xbox One but I spend most of my 3rd party time on PS4 and the biggest games I want this year are hitting the Switch...
LukasTaves
Member
Well, we were talking about profitability
Anyway, right now I would argue both of the boxes are extremely profitable, perhaps less so the Xbone S compared to Ps slim because the S seems like a premium version of xbone, whilst the slim is like a cheap version of the original PS4
EDIT:
Please, take into consideration the context XD
We were talking about profitability, not market perception.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Wait. So you're saying that MS won't make any new games for the Scorpio that might actually take advantage of the specs? Idontbelieveyou.gif
Depends on price Next holiday Sony could possibly get the pro down to $300. If Scorpio launches above $400 it'll get destroyed. Holiday's people are looking for deals not looking to pay full price.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I think they will likely have 2-3 old IP revival announcements at E3 this year. It makes sense because they will garner a lot of goodwill with lower development costs.
Nightengale
Member
I'll just say you're remembering some stuff wrongly and miscontexualised some price cut's factors.
I'll revert with a more detailed post shortly.
digoutyoursoul
Member
I loved blast corps, perfect Dark I can take it or leave it but I maybe interested in a overhaul of the series.
hanspampel
Banned
$299 is more than optimistic for the Pro this holiday season
and yeah you're right that holiday people are looking for deals. But Scorpio will not sell to those people anyway. It's the early adaptor and tech enthusiasts.
Same istrue for the Ps4 Pro.
Well to be fair a $299 Ps4 Pro could convince holiday shopper, but again i doubt the price will be that low just 1 year after launch. You better should expect just $349.
The price sensitive buyer will opt for the Ps4 Slim and Xbox One S.
For Ps4 Pro and Scorpio the price won't be that big of a facture.
Sure if Scorpio launches at $599 or something ridiculous, it will become a factor, when Ps4 Pro is $299
But a modest price delta won't be that huge of a deal. not for the launch period.
Xb1 launched at $499 and Ps4 was $399
Us launch sales were 1.82m and 2m
Nightengale
Member
XB1 w/Kinect (Nov 2013): $499
XB1 w/o Kinect (June 2014): $399
XB1 AssCreed bundle (Nov 2014): $349 (BF $329)
XB1 (Jan 2015): $399 (for two weeks)
XB1 (16th Jan 2015): $349 (indefinite extension of holiday deal after two week $399 bump)
XB1 (June 2015): $349 (official price drop)
XB1S ( Aug 2016) : $299 ( official price drop)
It's not that much different from your recollection, but the Nov 2014 to June 2015 period is poorly contextualised on your part. For one, the "mere $50" you highlighted was a $50 price drop that also included two retail AssCreed games into the package. It's less shocking now, but that was insanely good value compared to competition back in 2014 that was selling PS4s at $399 vanilla and $449 with only Destiny till BF.
Furthermore, you missed out on the fact that the $349 temporary price drop was lifted for only two weeks. In January they reinstated the $349 price deal all the way till June where they made the price drop official, but at all retail outlets and online in the US, $349 was the listing price for XB1 for the entire first half of 2015 with the exception of the first two weeks in January.
Like Mech Assault?
. Just saw a news story that Phil mentions we could certainly see Mech Assault this gen. He also mentions that Phantom Dust could be ready before E3. Dreams can come true! If you care, here's the story link:http://wccftech.com/spencer-phantom-dust-launch-e3/
Maybe someone could make a new thread about it if it's worth it?
Humdinger
Gold Member
I think they make a bundle on XBL subs, DL content, fees for services, etc. That's why they push so hard to get people in their ecosystem, sell hardware at a loss. That's also a part of why they're so big on "games as services."
Ah dang, yeah, that's some good details. I'd forgotten that they extended the deal. Still, doesn't really change that MS wasn't exactly desperate for price drops.
Nightengale
Member
Well. That wasn't my point of my reply.
It seems hard to understand to me. Pcs dont have this problem so why would consoles?
Everyone knows Microsoft going to come out swinging with the Scorpio. I have no doubt Microsoft will sell a tone of these new machines. Ps4 pro didn't sell as much as I thought it would. Microsoft will market this machine as the most powerful console ever. The Scorpio will be marketed as a new generation that plays all older Xbox games.
Well, we were talking about profitability
Anyway, right now I would argue both of the boxes are extremely profitable, perhaps less so the Xbone S compared to Ps slim because the S seems like a premium version of xbone, whilst the slim is like a cheap version of the original PS4
EDIT:
Please, take into consideration the context XD
We were talking about profitability, not market perception.
The $500 to $400 drop was in actual price, and not just market perception. The lowest price you could purchase an Xbox One dropped $100 and that was a significant change.
Samurai G0SU
Member
They just need to get mistwalker on stage again. Less go. Hype. Fantasy. Dreamin. Eyes closed no pics. Arms up in the sky.
Sota4077
Member
There is no way in hell what you are saying is true....
Samurai G0SU
Member
I got that email too. And a second one from major nelson saying back compat will end in the spring. Ramp down period is happening now.