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[Heckler456]

Your squad mates damage output is not controlled by you in combat, part of the combat in ME1-3 was using the wheel and giving commands the squad not acts out what you choose before you go into battle. You don't bring up the wheel select one of your squad mates and tell them to use one of their bionics to lift someone in the air.

That is gone. You can direct them towards and enemy to defend,attack.

All that is shown in this gameplay is you using your abilities different weapons and bionics.

Doesn't show you out of basic commands issuing their bionics,

All this shows is you doing all damage output with your icons below for your AI showing their health and shield.

Which is where the "priming-detonating" mechanic comes in. Instead of pausing the game and clicking an ability, you use an ability that primes the target to be detonated by one of your squad's abilities. Whether they promptly use their ability or not is yet to be decided, but there is clearly a way for you to initiate a combo on your own accord.

Seems to me like squad members are basically extensions of the player now? I guess mechanically that's what they are no matter what, but if you can't tell them to do things you are incapable of doing yourself, and they can only react to powers that you have... I mean, they're basically turrets and power buffs, right?

That's how every companion works though, in every game. That's what I find so weird about the other guy's complaint that they're "streamlining it into a solo ARPG" with squad mates being vestigial. They're always like that. And in fact, having an AI take over more control gives your companion more of a "character" than if he were just some avatar for you to use 2 extra abilities through by going in a menu.

 

[A-V-B]

Which is where the "priming-detonating" mechanic comes in. Instead of pausing the game and clicking an ability, you use an ability that primes the target to be detonated by one of your squad's abilities. Whether they promptly use their ability or not is yet to be decided, but there is clearly a way for you to initiate a combo on your own accord.

Like I said in my other post (buried at the end of last page >_<) doesn't that kinda just make squad mates... like a x2 multiplier for your own powers?

 

[Lt-47]

Seems to me like squad members are basically extensions of the player now? I guess mechanically that's what they are no matter what, but if you can't tell them to do things you are incapable of doing yourself, and they can only react to powers that you have... I mean, they're basically turrets and power buffs, right?

They always flet like that to me. There never was much point in giving them order aside from the occasional combo, even on insanity. They were just an additional 6 power in the wheel that you could use if you cared

 

[eggandI]

Jesus christ that AI &#128560;&#128560;

I'm hoping they put it on very easy or something for demonstration purposes, because AI that bad is just unacceptable

 

[Wulfram]

Seems to me like squad members are basically extensions of the player now? I guess mechanically that's what they are no matter what, but if you can't tell them to do things you are incapable of doing yourself, and they can only react to powers that you have... I mean, they're basically turrets and power buffs, right?

Eh, in the last game they were basically just power batteries anyway, so I'm not sure if its all that different. Squad mates role in the game play has always been a bit marginal.

Fundamentally their job is to provide witty banter

 

[A-V-B]

Eh, in the last game they were basically just power batteries anyway, so I'm not sure if its all that different. Squad mates role in the game play has always been a bit marginal.

Fundamentally their job is to provide witty banter

But why not go deeper into squadmate mechanics as an improvement for the sequel instead of making it blindingly obvious what their shortcomings were in the trilogy?

 

[Heckler456]

Like I said in my other post (buried at the end of last page >_<) doesn't that kinda just make squad mates... like a x2 multiplier for your own powers?

As I said in the post above yours, how is that any different than simply having them being a way for you to use some extra abilities? Once we distill it all down, it's you at the controller, and everything that happens in the game goes back to you, and by extension, your character in the game. Unless it's a multiplayer game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Biotics can shoot fire from their hands now?

 

[10k]

I WANT TO MAKE LOVE TO THIS GAME! FEMALE RYDER PLEASE MOTHER MY CHILDREN.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I dislike these characters a lot. Cora is channeling everything I didn't like about Cassandra (Inquisition). Ugly character model. But I find all the characters boring looking. The Turian and Krogan looks so generic and samey as the old ones. I really couldn't give a less of a fuck about them. And only 6? The only one I think has potential is Liam- He could be a new Jacob who served as a seemingly ordinary squad member. He was just a soldier, but him being more normal and not an alien gave him something of his own.

Jaal, Vetra and Drack are just these samey-looking aliens with a similar silhouette, and harsh anthromorhic designs. Then you got the Asari who is just.. ugh. And then Cora whose character model looks like a creepy porcelain doll.


Motherfucker. Character Writing is Biowares main asset. Their main plot structure is not as good as their character writing. Mass Effect 2 threw a shit ton of characters after you. Even if you found a lot of them boring, you still had some unique ones. There was enough diversity in there for everyone.

I dislike this lighter tone. This "star trek" exploration hopeful beverly hills bullshit. Mass Effect is supposed to be haunting, depressing and about inevitible destruction. I dislike these teenage clowns being given command over endless resources and the only objective being to find a new home while fighting an enemy who is familiar but ultimately just a insignificant struggle.
I understand they wanted to take a different approach, and that another "save the universe featuring new space jesus" would ring hallow, but...
I think the music we've heard so far lacks the wonder, mystique and creepiness of the old games.

The combat does look flashy and smooth. I think the gameplay looks functional.

but it just doesn't feel like Mass Effect to me. It feels like a filler episode of Naruto. Completely pointless just like these companion characters. They hit too close to home but it ends up being imitation. You see Ridley Scott doing the same sort of forced-try-too-hard-nostalgia in Alien Covenant.


Mass Effect is very emo when you think about it. It's very much about hopelessness and impossible choices, and it seems like this is pissing on that. Maybe the game does end up having darker moments- I'm still gonna play it despite being nancy negative, but It's not the direction I'd have taken this game. :/

Do you feel better now?

 

[Lt-47]

But why not go deeper into squadmate mechanics as an improvement for the sequel instead of making it blindingly obvious what their shortcomings were in the trilogy?

Because almost every design decision from bioware montreal as been about making combat faster and more fluid, not slowing it down as they would probably need to make a deeper system ?

Biotics can shoot fire from their hands now?

No, Engineer/Tech do

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Trailer was fine, but I was already sold on the combat after the first one. Next week's trailer about exploration should be good, though.

 

[Obliterator]

Damn mechanics / gameplay wise it looks like they have absolutely nailed this one. It looks fun as hell.

Now I just hope the Role Play and Narrative elements are good as the original trilogy. If so this could be fantastic.

Also I'm not sure if I'm going to go Male or Female Ryder. The more they show of Female Ryder the more I'm starting to lean that way

 

[A-V-B]

As I said in the post above yours, how is that any different than simply having them being a way for you to use some extra abilities?

Because it makes it feel like a team? If you don't bring a squadmate into a situation and they had a power you don't have, you depend on their presence for success -- or in this case, failure due to a lacking.

I guess now that the PC is a jack of all trades who can do everything, maybe the point of having unique squadmates is more of a moot point? But maybe we should wonder if that change to player speccing is worth it when you balance out the other side of the equation.

This kinda feels like arguing the merits of having a designated hitter in baseball.

"But pitchers suck at hitting! Put someone in who can hit!"

"But baseball strategy!"

:/

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Bioware had one job. Give us a hanar and elcor party members.

And they fucked that up

 

[Jarmel]

The main character being an one man army does ruin a lot of strategy/tactics that went into the original trilogy in regards to team balance. A player had to be more aware of what type of mission they were going on, such as a Geth base, and customize accordingly.

Now that your character can do everything, there's little reason to think about things like that and it reduces the role of teammates from backing up your weakpoints to being a glorified damage multiplier.

 

[Salty Rice]

Hope there are more and diverse Squad members because if its just these 6 its really underwhelming.

 

[Papacheeks]

The main character being an one man army does ruin a lot of strategy/tactics that went into the original trilogy in regards to team balance. A player had to be more aware of what type of mission they were going on, such as a Geth base, and customize accordingly.

Now that your character can do everything, there's little reason to think about things like that and it reduces the role of teammates from backing up your weakpoints to being a glorified damage multiplier.

This is pretty much my point.

 

[Jarmel]

Hope there are more Squad members because if its just these 6 its really underwhelming.

Supposedly that's it and yes it's underwhelming.

 

[MartyStu]

I like a lot of what I see, but the enemy A.I. seems extremely...wanting.

Based on this and the previous videos we have seen, I do not have much hope for encounter design.

 

[Heckler456]

Because it makes it feel like a team? If you don't bring a squadmate into a situation and they had a power you don't have, you depend on their presence for success. I guess now that the PC is a jack of all trades who can do everything, maybe the point of having unique squadmates is more of a moot point? But maybe we should wonder if that change to player speccing was worth it when you balance out the other side of the equation.

This kinda feels like arguing the merits of having a designated hitter in baseball.

"But pitchers suck at hitting! Put someone in who can hit!"

"But baseball strategy!"

:/

Like, honest to god, what will give your more of a "team" feeling.

You, having figured out the ultimate combination of triggered abilities, opening up the powers menu for the umpteenth time, and executing the same old strategy.

Or you, on a higher difficulty, being in a real bind, priming a dude with lift, and seeing Cora jump in at the last second with a clutch throw, and having her shout something at you a fraction of a second later?

I know for damn sure that I've never had anything like the latter happen in the original trilogy.

 

[A-V-B]

The main character being an one man army does ruin a lot of strategy/tactics that went into the original trilogy in regards to team balance. A player had to be more aware of what type of mission they were going on, such as a Geth base, and customize accordingly.

Now that your character can do everything, there's little reason to think about things like that and it reduces the role of teammates from backing up your weakpoints to being a glorified damage multiplier.

Yup, that's the effect this has. Or sounds like it does.

 

[Kneecap]

For those of you who played lots of ME3 multi, you may have experienced the struggle to detonate your own biotic combos. A good team could mitigate the detonation problem, but really i remember applying warp and then throw with no detonation because a teammate applied a tech primer. Successive applications of throw were then required to even try to detonate that warp. This detonation problem happened with tech powers too.

Now imagine npc AI. Yikes

 

[Admiral Woofington]

The main character being an one man army does ruin a lot of strategy/tactics that went into the original trilogy in regards to team balance. A player had to be more aware of what type of mission they were going on, such as a Geth base, and customize accordingly.

Now that your character can do everything, there's little reason to think about things like that and it reduces the role of teammates from backing up your weakpoints to being a glorified damage multiplier.

I hadn't even considered that now you have zero fucking party strategy. On one side it's great you won't be affected by the class of your party member in combat. This bothers me when I want to be one class but a party member I really like is the same class resulting in me not being as quick on choosing them.

 

[A-V-B]

Like, honest to god, what will give your more of a "team" feeling.

You, having figured out the ultimate combination of triggered abilities, opening up the powers menu for the umpteenth time, and executing the same old strategy.

So this is about convenience. Well, we all play games for different reasons! I hope the game is still really good.

 

[Heckler456]

So this is about convenience. Well, we all play games for different reasons! I hope the game is still really good.

It's not about convenience. I don't get how you could possibly feel "like a team" when in actual fact, you're doing all the work, while in the latter example, you're actually acting like a team.

 

[Lord Phol]

Hm not too sold on the combat. It looks pretty and serviceable but it's lacking some oomph and feeling to it IMO. Also not sure what I think of the player being able to do everything. Feels like there's barely any decision making involved when you can just switch things out at any given time.

 

[A-V-B]

It's not about convenience. I don't get how you could possibly feel "like a team" when in actual fact, you're doing all the work, while in the latter example, you're actually acting like a team.

The role of the leader in a team is to determine the team's direction. This can involve giving orders to other members of the team. There is a certain amount of flexibility -- few people like a micromanager. We sometimes like leaders who trust us to do the work without being told what to do all the time. But if we're going for realism as a leader who trusts team mates to make the right decision without being told which tools to use, then when the AI makes a mistake in-game, we should be able to pull them aside (when we're back on the ship) and mention it.

But I don't think we're going that far. This isn't Football Manager. It's an action game. So... loss of control on a manual level to increase pace thanks to automation means you ain't getting that level of granularity back. It's gone.

It is what it is.

 

[Jarmel]

It's not about convenience. I don't get how you could possibly feel "like a team" when in actual fact, you're doing all the work, while in the latter example, you're actually acting like a team.

The difference is that you were acting like a team leader and giving commands like how I imagine someone in an actual firefight would do. Now it's more about your character being a master of all trades and your teammates being supplementary rather than closer to necessary.

And this AI is nowhere near good enough to be comparable to an actual human taking control.

 

[gow3isben]

Lame as fuck removing the power wheel. For every step forward in this series they take a step back.

I think they took 3 steps forwards for a step back. Still think this will be the best one yet.

 

[Dresden]

Those were some dumb fucking enemies.

 

[Jarmel]

Those were some dumb fucking enemies.

Easy mode.

 

[A-V-B]

Easy mode.

Baby, when I play, every mode is easy mode!

 

[Salty Rice]

Supposedly that's it and yes it's underwhelming.

If true, shit. Getting less and less exciting for this game.

So much underwhelming stuff. Most likely getting it not Day 1 anymore.

 

[Heckler456]

The role of the leader in a team is to determine the team's direction. This can involve giving orders to other members of the team. There is a certain amount of flexibility -- few people like a micromanager. We sometimes like leaders who trust us to do the work without being told what to do all the time. But if we're going for realism as a leader who trusts team mates to make the right decision without being told which tools to use, then when the AI makes a mistake in-game, we should be able to pull them aside (when we're back on the ship) and mention it.

But I don't think we're going that far. This isn't Football Manager. It's an action game. So... loss of control on a manual level to increase pace thanks to automation means you ain't getting that level of granularity back. It's gone.

It is what it is.

Well, if it's the sheer granularity you're looking for, then, functionally speaking, what is the difference between having the system where you have to pause the game just to give out commands for some abilities; and having the system that we have now, where the granularity is borne from the Pathfinder as an individual (and the jumping jet mechanic, prime/detonate, multiple classes during combat, and whatever else we haven't been shown yet), with your team members as back-up, there to shout stuff at you and make cool combos? If it's about the conceit of "team combat - I'm telling my team members what to do, but in all actuality, it's just a way to give me a couple more abilities", then what's this about "tactical combat"?

Point being, the game being tactical in a different way is not necessarily a bad thing. Controlling your team mate's abilities is not the only way to encourage or even necessitate tactical thinking.

 

[A-V-B]

Well, if it's the sheer granularity you're looking for, then, functionally speaking, what is the difference between having the system where you have to pause the game just to give out commands for some abilities; and having the system that we have now, where the granularity is borne from the Pathfinder as an individual (and the jumping jet mechanic, prime/detonate, multiple classes during combat, and whatever else we haven't been shown yet), with your team members as back-up, there to shout stuff at you and make cool combos?

Yeah, this is a difference in opinion. If someone tried to sell me a team-based game where your team mates existed for tone, I'd say... eh... what else you got?

Thankfully Andromeda does have other things, but a game needs every plus it can get when it's selling itself.

 

[fastmower]

I am honestly overwhelmed by all the systems and mechanics.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You never had to think who to take on a mission in mass effect. Just take Miranda and you're pretty much set in ME2.

In ME1 with more overlap it was even easier.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here with all the talk about tactics. The games were rather simple and combos where a neat bonus. I think I played ME2 on the hardest or 2nd hardest thinking warp + overload was the combo.

 

[Zxrophantom]

Disagree. It doesn't have to be as scripted as Mass 2's ending was. Just need to find a way to ensure the characters you don't take in your immediate party find a way to contribute in other ways. Maybe some of them stay on the ship and provide recon assistance. Maybe stealthy characters can scout ahead and create the odd distraction in battle. Sniper characters can hang back and provide covering fire every now and again. Even if they just work as low-cooldown super abilities in battles it would help sell the idea of a whole team working together, rather than most of your team doing nothing at all.

I'm not expecting fully scripted events like Mass 2's ending all the time (though building those sections into core story events would be awesome). But I'm also not okay to give them a pass for having you leave two thirds of your elite team back for no good reason at all.

I can get behind that or at the very least more large scale missions like mass effect 2's final mission. I'm shocked they did not try to reuse or improve on it in ME3. I'm sure the time crunch had something to do with that. On a smaller scale i would just like longer loyalty missions or missions were someone is vital to the task at head. That would break up sticking to your favorites all the time and trying out other squad mates.

 

[A-V-B]

You never had to think who to take on a mission in mass effect. Just take Miranda and you're pretty much set in ME2.

In ME1 with more overlap it was even easier.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here with all the talk about tactics. The games were rather simple and combos where a neat bonus. I think I played ME2 on the hardest or 2nd hardest thinking warp + overload was the combo.

Wasn't that way for my Shepard. I'd have party members who I wished I could've taken but I had second thoughts on because of their skills for the mission. Or for what I thought the mission might be. So I had to juggle what I wanted. And I always had to think about taking a squadmate who had the same class I did. Was it worth it? Do I like this character enough to gimp myself strategically?

 

[UberLevi]

Yo, I like video games and this video game looks pretty fun.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wasn't that way for my Shepard. I'd have party members who I wished I could've taken but I had second thoughts on because of their skills for the mission. Or for what I thought the mission might be. So I had to juggle what I wanted. And I always had to think about taking a squadmate who had the same class I did. Was it worth it? Do I like this character enough to gimp myself strategically?

Never cared and only ever ran into trouble on the derelict reaper with all the husks because I had no throw or shockwave.

 

[prag16]

Also I'm not sure if I'm going to go Male or Female Ryder. The more they show of Female Ryder the more I'm starting to lean that way

Yeah I still haven't made up my mind. If you asked me a week ago I was probably 60/40 male, but now I'm probably 60/40 the other way. Of course I'll likely do several playthroughs and will ultimately end up doing plenty of both.

 

[Orochinagis]

Wow; ME3 raised the bar of being accesible and friendly game, being able to change classes in combat without any real repercussion will destroy the few tactics the game have previously, Squadmates are now like buff bots for your abilities

 

[Wulfram]

But why not go deeper into squadmate mechanics as an improvement for the sequel instead of making it blindingly obvious what their shortcomings were in the trilogy?

Because you risk distracting from the main focus of the gameplay, which is playing your character.

A lot of why Mass Effect's gameplay is in a lot better place than Dragon Age is because its willing to basically treat companion control as an optional extra, while Dragon Age is stuck trying to do two things equally.

 

[Dave_6]

Mass Effect's aesthetic / ambience is second to none for me. I could spend hours in the effing menu screens.

Agreed. It may sound silly but I loved ME2's loading screens.

 

[Sub_Level]

Agreed. It may sound silly but I loved ME2's loading screens.

On a related note, ME2 has a pc mod to shorten load screens. Works great.

 

[John Kowalski]

Yo, I like video games and this video game looks pretty fun.

well your fucked

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

On a related note, ME2 has a pc mod to shorten load screens. Works great.

ME2 loading screens are already short on an SSD tho.

 

[Dave_6]

On a related note, ME2 has a pc mod to shorten load screens. Works great.

I only played it on PS3 but I did pick it up on Origin a couple weeks ago when it was free. I may install it if I can figure out how to use the controller mod.