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JonTron (youtuber) speaks against demographic "invasion" of America by nonwhites

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When he was doing his weekend streams (the lets drown out series), some of the topics got kind of....alt-rightish. Mostly centering around Gamergate, "SJW's", and gamer culture being young, white, and wealthy.

But it was nothing like this. Hell, he was often the voice of reason in said conversations.

Could someone please give me a cohesive definition of what makes someone "alt-right" or a "Gamergater" because I don't agree with much of what Yahtzee says but I've never heard him support racial nationalism or outright misogyny.
 
"Incredible JonTron cosplay"

i'm weak.
uropGOZ.gif
Hahahahahaha I'm done
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Muslim riots
French neighborhoods and busisness where women aren't allowed
Sharia law on the UK
Belgium basically a middle eastern dictartoship right now

I'll say, it is a pretty scary world if you believe all the scary lies.

The narrative these days is "the rest of the world is a hellhole because of the brown people being let loose, we must drive out the foreigners to stop the same from happening here."

Which is pretty much the plot of Bioshock Infinite.
 

Armaros

Member
So when Jon was saying that oppression in America doesn't exist and then asked about th crime rates in Africa, was he fucking saying that black people are predisposed to commit crimes because of their race? That it's genetic? Please tell me I interpreted it incorrectly.

He even stated that crime rates for African-Americans and actual people from Africa similar because <fill in the blank> 'hint hint' (Refuses to actually finish the statement because it @would be seen in the wrong light')
 
So when Jon was saying that oppression in America doesn't exist and then asked about th crime rates in Africa, was he fucking saying that black people are predisposed to commit crimes because of their race? That it's genetic? Please tell me I interpreted it incorrectly.

He was trying to imply it but was too ball-less to actually come out and say how he feels (like usual). I think you can possibly give him a sliver of doubt because he was so fucking scattered brained and constantly tried to switch topics to Japan and Sweden and other random shit when asking about BLM and very American things that are going on. Like most people like him, they don't want to debate or be interviewed they want to very much stick to their talking points and rhetoric regardless of whether it has fuck all to do with the conversation.
 

Mesoian

Member
Could someone please give me a cohesive definition of what makes someone "alt-right" or a "Gamergater" because I don't agree with much of what Yahtzee says but I've never heard him support racial nationalism or outright misogyny.

It's not as cut and dry as all that, you really do have to listen to the arguments. But there is a lot of making excuses for the poor behavior of people hell bent on ruining the lives of people who would even suggest that social issues be brought up and addressed in the scope of video games and video game culture.

The one that bubbles to the top in my head is the half life 2 playthrough.
 

L Thammy

Member
what makes people to believe lies?

Sometimes people choose to believe whatever makes them happiest.

what makes people to assume that everything is some other persons fault and that your superior and what not?

People have a general tendency to view their own actions as being the result of the environment, and other people's actions as the result of their own decisions. But beyond that, certain people have a tendency towards either view of themselves.

I think it's a perpetual moral infancy; people who never grow out of the idea that good = anything that makes me feel good and bad = anything that makes me fee bad. Because JonTron would never do anything to make himself feel bad, he's the greatest person in the world. Because other people try to get him to be responsible and make him feel bad, they're evil.

what makes one to just toss in and believe rumors and blank out reality?

See the first answer again.

what makes one to trust memes more then articles with links, evidence and proof?

Less work, but I think part of this is endemic to the Internet as it is now. Lots of information available for people who don't have a lot of time. What's more alarming is if they get those memes from people who very obviously do not have good intentions.

what makes one into a douche?

I think that's just the sum of them having the qualities you mentioned.
 
I used to enjoy JonTron.

Now I kind of find it sad that a man with his level of accomplishment via entrepreneurism and the opportunities the USA has provided immigrants like him and his family is engaged in the classic "fuck you got mine" culture that seems to permeate a lot of people of influence and or money.
 

Cyframe

Member
I hope this time it sticks and he faces some type of consequence this time. He isn't some goofball who just makes youtube videos, he's spreading dangerous rhetoric.
 

Mahonay

Banned
It's not as cut and dry as all that, you really do have to listen to the arguments. But there is a lot of making excuses for the poor behavior of people hell bent on ruining the lives of people who would even suggest that social issues be brought up and addressed in the scope of video games and video game culture.

The one that bubbles to the top in my head is the half life 2 playthrough.
Yep. A little reading between the lines goes a long way.

These types of issues have usually consisted of a lot more shades of gray in recent history. But ever since the run up to the Trump presidency, the cartoonishly racist and bigoted have overshadowed those that have very similar kinds of feelings in a more underlying fashion.
I used to enjoy JonTron.

Now I kind of find it sad that a man with his level of accomplishment via entrepreneurism and the opportunities the USA has provided immigrants like him and his family is engaged in the classic "fuck you got mine" culture that seems to permeate a lot of people of influence and or money.
Yeah it's kind of depressing honestly.
 

Buckle

Member
&#12302;Inaba Resident&#12303;;231959421 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they did it to begin with because he said some dumb shit in private.
"Hey, Arin. Remember Regan? Member when there wasn't so many mexicans?"

"Wait...what?"
 

Armaros

Member
I used to enjoy JonTron.

Now I kind of find it sad that a man with his level of accomplishment via entrepreneurism and the opportunities the USA has provided immigrants like him and his family is engaged in the classic "fuck you got mine" culture that seems to permeate a lot of people of influence and or money.

I enjoyed it when Destiny called him the fuck out on that front with 'you are a second generation immigtant who makes a crap ton of money on YouTube videos, do you think you are the common working white man?'
 

R0ckman

Member
Did anyone post this nugget yet?

This guy is insane, these people were highly advanced that were conquered. They had trade routes. Their only mistake was some of them believing in not using weapons at all. Some native communities were just sitting ducks for the evil that was coming.
 
Between this and Colin getting blasted for joking about woman's day, i think we all need to take a step back and stop taking political advice from personalities on youtube. I respect Jon as a creator and he is entitled to his opinion and it can be what ever he wants it to be and he is in no state to change any policy based of that opinion. I feel like the energy people use to get upset at entertainers needs to be focused more on the people making the decisions.

In case anyone is coming in here to post something like this:

- Irish settlers to North America were not prejudiced against; that was a myth
- Discrimination does not exist in modern-day America (meanwhile he discriminates in this video)
- Pure America is white European settlers (barely any consideration given to Native Americans)
- All of Europe is the same
- Social demographics and upbringing don't play any part in crime rates
- Japan is the gold standard for a racially pure country. Yes, that Japan

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

Once a creator crosses the line from just being an asshole to being a racist shitwad in public.... that's when their opinion (which is invalid) pretty much overrides their work.

But hey. If you want to fool yourself into thinking that it's okay just cause it is his opinion, by all means, keep supporting a Nazi.
 
Did anyone post this nugget yet?

What always bug me about this argument is even if you assume it's true - and obviously, there's a lot of reason to challenge that point - it only begs the question: Couldn't we still have traded with them instead of conquering their lands? The whole oppression, subjugation, and exploitation of resources was kinda wholly unnecessary.
 

Astral

Member
I enjoyed it when Destiny called him the fuck out on that front with 'you are a second generation immigtant who makes a crap ton of money on YouTube videos, do you think you are the common working white man?'

And I loved how he had nothing to say to that. He was shut the fuck up.
 
To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
YY4deNm.jpg



- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
Which country in Africa?

- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
This starts to make things a little clearer.


- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
This, too. It's a nonsensical thing to say.

- Destiny wants to kill black people
What makes him think that?

- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
A common claim from white nationalists, or people who are otherwise simply ignorant of things.

- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
This, I don't get at all. Is he trying to imply that the richest black man (I dunno who that is) must be some kind of criminal to have all that money? And that even the poorest white man is so virtuous as to completely avoid crime? It seems like a baseless, and blatantly racist thing to say.


- Tribalism is a valid theory
I, uh, okay.

- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
But... his dad...?

- America is gonna become Mexico
Whoa! How so? Though the implications of this statement seem obvious...


- Racism is over
Lmao!


- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics
But... but... it's... how does one come to think in the way that this man thinks?

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?"
Good question.

To answer my own question from earlier, there are really two ways to adopt this line of thinking.

The first is, your parents teach you hate all through your childhood, and it becomes a part of who you are. This is one of the most unfortunate ways, because if you aren't above a certain intelligence level, it's probably impossible to ever overcome the flaw. This is why so many racists seem so stupid. Racism is inherently sub-optimal at best.

The second is, you learn it on your own. This is what happened to a ton of white kids starting around 10+ years ago, as "web 2.0" started to take off, and memes became a thing. You had internet dickwads, like Penny Arcade used to make fun of, but then you had people like PA themselves, who would make hateful jokes and then get upset when you call them on it. They feel entitled to say whatever they want without issue, and see the negative reactions as people being too "sensitive." And the actual hate groups latch on to that sentiment, and use it to grow.
 
I'm gonna need some receipts on this because he's never come across to me as being the same as someone like Jon. Not 100% liberal, sure, but nowhere near alt-right.

Can you provide a source for this?

Just before we start throwing different people under the bus without proof.

I'm surprised people haven't kept up on Yahtzee (Ben Croshaw). I mean the fedora didn't give it away? :p There might be more examples, but I barely follow him and remembered this stuff. He's not gone white nationalist and alt-right like Jontron has, so far...but he's definitely anti-feminist, anti-social justice, and a bit more conservative.

Not a big fan of diversity:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...Adds-Diversity-to-Its-Game-With-Gender-Choice
"And that made me think about this big sticky issue of diversity in video games...And now I'm trying to think of a game in which the main character being female is inseparable from the plot, but I'm drawing a bit of a blank. The Path, or Beyond Good & Evil, maybe. Or the Tomb Raider remake, but barring that one single act of attempted rape the plot is virtually the same as that of Far Cry 3. Perhaps this confirms the existence of a lack of diversity, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Game developers do remain predominantly male through no fault of their own, and asking them, from a male perspective, to make games about a female perspective, would probably produce something rather disingenuous.

But I digress. Okay then - let's say that every game should let you pick your gender as long as their gender isn't hugely central to the plot. Wait, that sounded weird. Games in which gender doesn't matter should let you choose your gender? If the gender doesn't matter, why should we care? Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them. To demand diversity for characters that are essentially blank placeholders is to put way more thought into it than the creator did."

" I thought the whole idea of equality was to be able to look beyond what brand of tackle everyone's swinging. Alright, I suppose there's a bit of an elephant in this room, that being the ongoing argument that video games are misogynistic, and the online proponents of such...So I welcome the perspective of those who want to discuss misogyny in video games, and in the interests of discourse, I don't agree with them.

Specifically I don't agree that video games are misogynistic just because there are certain tropes they tend to fall back on a lot. It is true that there are an awful lot of game stories where the protagonist is male and the female character exists either to be rescued or to die and give the protagonist motivation. We'll call that the hero-damsel narrative. I don't think that hero-damsel enforces misogyny. After all, the protagonist, the male, is the one who has it worst. He's the one who has to put himself at pain, and even die, over and over again, in an endless cycle of torment, for the benefit of the women. Yeah, 'damsels in distress' tend to be shallow characters without much agency, but who has less agency than the protagonist? The one that can't so much as lift a finger if the player doesn't press a button telling them to?"

"I do think it's true that games could use more diversity. But when I say that, I mean diversity of ideas, thoughtfulness, and perspectives. And that takes a whole lot more than just numerically equalizing the ham sandwiches to the sausage rolls."

Just not a fan of social justice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZssC5Iw4XrA
"You know, whatever you think is currently the thing ruining video games, be it publishers, misogyny, social justice, Mumm-Ra or lead in the water pipes, it seems to be doing a fucking poor job of it because games have been pretty good lately. Maybe that's the equivalent of saying 'Ooh, it's a bit cold today, so much for global warming'. But I digress."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=1563
"If social justice tries to get up your case, all you need to do is flick V signs and blow an arse brick. Just whatever they say, go *blows raspberries*. At length. Keep doing it...Fuck you social justice for ruining the best day of that guy's life [shirtgate]."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=33m
"I thought feminists were supposed to be about wearing what you like. Suppose that doesn't apply to the MEN, does it? Men's rights for peace. [sarcastic tone] Men are the real victims."

Transphobia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cy0mWziFrI#t=1m45s
ddf235825394351b24164cc4c9d379b5.png

"The gameplay is best described as single-player co-op. And I know that sounds like saying 'I'm not gay, I only suck off pantomime dames', but it is."
"It's hard to sympathise when you have to put spotty mcbumblefuck through the X-ray machine cause his passport says he's a GIRL. And the last precious seconds in the day trickle out as you examine a picture of his hairy balls."
 

Mael

Member
Lol @people just realizing that the zero punctuation guy is a secret dirtbag just now.
Like where were you during Gamergate?
 
Real up a few of the summaries of JohnTrons arguments, they follow similar logic.
I know, ive read.

Coming from a country colonised by England, their divide and conquer method still has long lasting effects in the region.

Anyone who still subscribes to this guy is a piece of shit. When (if) the Trump Administration comes to its ugly end, any of you who supports him because he's funny are the little piece of shits that enabled evil for your fucking entertainment.
 
I kinda wanna see if like with Milo creepy consent arguments and their ilk will be what forces some YT people to stop rushing to Jon's defence or if he's too much of a lovable goof and instead it'd have to turn out he's like, into cannibalism to warrant his friends finally challenging him on his world-views.
 
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