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[Goro Majima]

I spent all my dating years in the South so I always paid and kinda accepted it as a fact of life. It's nearly impossible to go against the dominant culture so why fight it?

To me the upside was generally nothing but positive because I cared more about putting my best foot forward in dating rather than being worried about $20-30. The first date isn't entirely unlike a job interview so the same mentality applies like with whether or not to wear a suit, shine your shoes, etc.

It's not like I'm meeting up for drinks somewhere fancy to begin with. Meeting up for dinner is a fool's game though.

Most girls I've gone on subsequent dates will eventually insist on paying at some point also.

 

[pottuvoi]

Each pay their own or some sort of rotating arrangement.
Financial independence is good.

 

[hodgy100]

There's no negotiation, I pay for the bill. As a man I need to do that at least. I grew up learning that a man stand up and take control a situation, regardless of how the date plays out.

A person has no obligation to do anything based on their gender.

 

[dralla]

Split the bill. If a go out with a woman and they expect me to pay because I'm a dude it's an instant deal breaker and there is no second date.

 

[T.O.P]

"I got this one, you get the next one."

Yup, since forever

I tried to pay two times consecutively for my bf and we ended up having an argument lol

It's often expected and really not the end of the world... women put themselves at risk of physical violence every time they go on a date with some weirdo dude they don't know yet, so IMO the least we can do is buy their coffee on date #1 then talk to them about splitting the bill on future dates if it's a big enough issue.

The fuck

 

[Violet_0]

I see it as a tried-and-true practice to compensate for wage inequality

Spoiler

/s if that wasn't obvious

 

[H.Protagonist]

I don't think the "whoever invites pays" argument holds up under scrutiny. Are you asking a person you like if she likes you enough to go on a date with you and see if you two gel together, or are you paying her for her company? People can actually refuse to go on a date if they don't think they would have a good time or they're just not interested. They're not doing you a favour by agreeing to go on a date with you.

I think the idea is more that the inviter has an interest in the other person and asks them out to basically present their case, in a way. They're trying to impress or entice the other one (and vet them as well), so treating someone or taking them out to a show/thing is one way to do that. Naturally, I think some reciprocal treatment later on is the way to go, but people don't (generally) go on dates because they think they're doing you a favor or because you're paying for their company. It's just a show, a dance, a gambit. Not everything has to be some kind of premeditated, devious, or coldly calculated exchange. I do think women should be stepping up more and doing more of the asking/taking out, but the one inviting is the one making the initial bid. I don't find it unusual or a negative that they'd want show the other one a good time (i.e. taking them out and that sometimes that means paying for dinner) in order to make their strongest 'presentation'. And there are plenty of other date-type things that guys can invite girls to that cost nothing. There's no need to pay for anything unless that's something you want to do.

 

[tearsintherain]

As a married guy in his late 40s its interesting seeing all this talk, just 20 years ago it was 100% expected that guys pay for everything up until the day you got married. Over dozens of dates I don't ever remember once a girl offering to pay or the issue even thought about, and everyone I dated worked. The times change faster than people think they do.

I wonder if in 20 years people will be posting messages asking if its weird that a girl doesn't pay for a date, and if a girl pays should it be expected that a guy kills the alien tentacle monsters that attack during virtual reality safe sex.

 

[345triangle]

never done it once. the "of course i pay, i actually want to get laid" mentality in this thread is super weird imo.

 

[Izayoi]

I think the idea is more that the inviter has an interest in the other person and asks them out to basically present their case, in a way. They're trying to impress or entice the other one (and vet them as well), so treating someone or taking them out to a show/thing is one way to do that. Naturally, I think some reciprocal treatment later on is the way to go, but people don't (generally) go on dates because they think they're doing you a favor or because you're paying for their company. It's just a show, a dance, a gambit. Not everything has to be some kind of premeditated, devious, or coldly calculated exchange. I do think women should be stepping up more and doing more of the asking/taking out, but the one inviting is the one making the initial bid. I don't find it unusual or a negative that they'd want show the other one a good time (i.e. taking them out and that sometimes that means paying for dinner) in order to make their strongest 'presentation'. And there are plenty of other date-type things that guys can invite girls to that cost nothing. There's no need to pay for anything unless that's something you want to do.

I go on many dates, and I always initiate. Women in my experience do not ask for a date - even if they are sending the initial message on Tinder, for example.

I think it's unfair to put the burden of paying on the person who asks, as it is almost always the man.

What kind of non-drink/dinner settings would you suggest? In my experience they don't go over as well as more traditional first dates. (Parks, etc.) Even the museum costs money nowadays. Hardly anything that is appropriate for a date is going to be free.

 

[The Lamonster]

We take turns, which is nice.

 

[Kumquat]

I foot the bill on the first date always. That being said I watched this video and it resonated with me to a great degree. I think many of you can appreciate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71o3hq6iSPM

 

[Izayoi]

I foot the bill on the first date always. That being said I watched this video and it resonated with me to a great degree. I think many of you can appreciate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71o3hq6iSPM

Great video! He is exactly right.

 

[Barzul]

I pay and my girl tips. We've struck a nice balance there.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

I pay and my girl tips. We've struck a nice balance there.

Well, she has.

 

[LosDaddie]

I always expected to pay.

Was never a problem. Still got laid 🤷🏽*♂️

 

[Barzul]

Well, she has.

lol true but I guess I don't mind too much. We will reverse roles every now and then.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Why an idiot?

Because there were times that I realized I was consistently expected to pay after several dates and so I felt used.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

In the gay community ability to pay seems to be a factor, though that could just be because I've been on both sides of the student/recent graduate with a job divide divide over the past few years.

Mostly I think heterosexual dating norms are a steaming pile of frustration and I have no idea how you guys put up with it (not that it's a great sexist injustice for Ken to pay, but that neither side seems to know what the norm is and a woman won't o ow whether offering to pay for a less well off man's meal will be welcome or emasculating and women won't know whether offering to pay will be read as considerate or patriarchal). It seems like you can infer something from people once they decide to break a norm with some degree of accuracy (man who doesn't pay is a cheapskate, woman who insists on paying is headstrong), but if you just obliterated the norm no one would have any of these problems :/

 

[Sch1sm]

If you want a second date then the guy is going to have to pay. I know tons of women who wouldn't give a guy a second thought if he didn't pay for everything. Its some weird crack in the facade of progressive women's movement.

I've come across guys who, when faced with the offer of splitting the bill, have suddenly felt that the woman must be disinterested in going out again. How do you explain those?

I always offer, personally.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I pay for her on a first date. I also walk her to the door, hold doors open etc.

 

[Messofanego]

I go on many dates, and I always initiate. Women in my experience do not ask for a date - even if they are sending the initial message on Tinder, for example.

I think it's unfair to put the burden of paying on the person who asks, as it is almost always the man.

What kind of non-drink/dinner settings would you suggest? In my experience they don't go over as well as more traditional first dates. (Parks, etc.) Even the museum costs money nowadays. Hardly anything that is appropriate for a date is going to be free.

Plus with parks you gotta worry about the weather. If it's too windy, chilly, or chance of rain. Not a lot of free date ideas Thankfully, museums here in UK are free and I've gone on long walks along the river or around the town with some girls, but at some point you gots to eat and spend money hehe.

 

[gaiages]

Why are they going out on a date with "some weirdo dude"?

Most weirdos are good at hiding their weirdness on online dating apps, where texting is the norm, and face to face conversations are a bit more revealing of their personality.

I mean if they're acting like weirdos and raising red flags in texts, they *probably* aren't getting dates.

 

[Amory]

I pay if I feel like it's going well and we'll both want to go out again

Paying if it's going poorly makes us both feel awkward, I think. If she's not into it, I don't want her to feel like she owes me something for paying for the meal. And plus, if I'm not into her she can pay for herself anyway.

 

[Future]

If she wants to split, I'll split. But I'll take charge and take the bill without question unless she stops me. Why not. One meal ain't breaking the bank

 

[mullet2000]

I've never gone on a date with a girl who didn't insist we split.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

never done it once. the "of course i pay, i actually want to get laid" mentality in this thread is super weird imo.

It's sexist and creepy, tbh.

 

[MogCakes]

In my experience the girls who have offered to pay their share were better partners than those who expected me to pay by default.

 

[Messofanego]

I foot the bill on the first date always. That being said I watched this video and it resonated with me to a great degree. I think many of you can appreciate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71o3hq6iSPM

You see all those hundreds of women shout "MAN" and then she says if you're a gentleman you're supposed to pay.

Yeah, we're not quite at gender equality on dating terms yet

"If they never offered to pay, I wouldn't be dating them. This is the most polite they're ever going to be [first date], and they're not even trying to pay now."

"If you're not trying to contribute, he feels used. Any guy who's really confident and self-respecting, if the woman is never even trying to contribute, he feels he's taken advantage of. And it's nothing to do with money. It's to do with the lack of gesture."

 

[Wolf Dawgz]

I've only had one partner, and we usually split it. Sometimes I'll pay for one, and she pays for the other. On birthdays we treat each other. I usually cook at home for us though, since we live together.

I know with some women, the man paying gives off a weird pressure for the woman to have to do something for the guy. Other women I know cite the .33 cent wage gap as a reason that men should pay.

 

[Always-honest]

Because there were times that I realized I was consistently expected to pay after several dates and so I felt used.

Ah right. Yeah that sucks. In my case i mainly pay for.. my gf (that i have for over 20 years now).
She can just as easily pay the bill and sometimes she does. But i feel great paying for her. We rarely split though (even though we're Dutch, haha).

I can understand that when you have different dates and the girls just automatically assume you pay that it can get a bit tedious and you might feel used.
If you GET invited, they should at least offer to pay No matter who it is.

 

[Messofanego]

Why are they going out on a date with "some weirdo dude"?

Ask any woman you're going on a date with, their past experiences. Bound to be guys who seem polite and fine on the app or wherever they met to get to the date, and then face-to-face it's a different picture. I've heard stories from my dates about all of these horror stories, without fail.

 

[Kumquat]

You see all those hundreds of women shout "MAN" and then she says if you're a gentleman you're supposed to pay.

Yeah, we're not quite at gender equality on dating terms yet

"If they never offered to pay, I wouldn't be dating them. This is the most polite they're ever going to be [first date], and they're not even trying to pay now."

"If you're not trying to contribute, he feels used. Any guy who's really confident and self-respecting, if the woman is never even trying to contribute, he feels he's taken advantage of. And it's nothing to do with money. It's to do with the lack of gesture."

He nails it too. I've been in that situation where I'm doing my best to send via telepathy the suggestion that they offer to do something. It's all about the gesture and trying. I may well refuse your offer and foot the bill but when a girl offers I can feel my spirit lift and I feel good feelings.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

"If they never offered to pay, I wouldn't be dating them. This is the most polite they're ever going to be [first date], and they're not even trying to pay now."

"If you're not trying to contribute, he feels used. Any guy who's really confident and self-respecting, if the woman is never even trying to contribute, he feels he's taken advantage of. And it's nothing to do with money. It's to do with the lack of gesture."

That's pretty much how I view it. Offering to pay every now and again is a positive sign. Unless I really don't have the cash, I will almost always pay.

I did dump a girl with the bill at a restaurant once for being rude as fuck.

 

[Pau]

I always offered to pay. Guys would be pretty adamant about paying and I didn't feel like getting into a fight over it. And they didn't get laid or a second date in every instance except one.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Separate checks, unless there's a very specific reason why one of the two parties is paying (special occasion or whatever). "Being the man in the couple" isn't such a reason.

Anything else is antiquated savagery.

It's sexist and creepy, tbh.

Very.

 

[stump sock]

Most weirdos are good at hiding their weirdness on online dating apps, where texting is the norm, and face to face conversations are a bit more revealing of their personality.

Just buy her a cup of coffee, that way she knows you're not like the other weirdos.

 

[Schlorgan]

Who invited first generally foots the bill.

This.

 

[kamineko]

If the date is my idea, I usually will offer to pay

If we go out a few times, we will take turns or split checks, it isn't a big deal to me who pays

I don't think it is my job "as a man" to pay or that it has any affect on outcomes. Honestly, I wouldn't want an outcome that is based solely on my spending, that's just not appealing to me

I just try to be considerate; it isn't about gender expectations

 

[Vanillalite]

I expect to pay​. If she wants to pay or split the bill I might say I got this. If she insists then no big deal. We can split or I can say I got next.

Just be flexible, and set expectations accordingly before you go.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

I usually always pay as a dude.

Just buy her a cup of coffee, that way she knows you're not like the other weirdos.

I may murder her but I'll buy her a cup of coffee. Its the least I can do.

 

[Messofanego]

I may murder her but I'll buy her a cup of coffee. Its the least I can do.

I expect a murderer might lavish her more, cause he probably has enough money to cover up the costs for killing someone so why not splurge on the woman for her last meal.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Most girls in my experience offer to split the bill.

Girls who expect me to pay it probably isn't going to work out. Never made a lot of sense to me. An ex who made significantly more money than me expected me to always be paying for shit and it gets old. It's like, you literally know I don't have unlimited piles of money sitting around. If that's what you're looking for you can fuck off (she did).

 

[Stallion Dan]

You have a sick and twisted mind if you think that paying for a meal somehow entitles you to sex, since that's obviously what you were trying to imply.

Try harder "stallion" dude.

I don't have to try, you made it pretty clear.

Getting laid > being right.

I almost always foot the bill on a first date.

You almost always foot the bill despite thinking it isn't right, because you think footing the bill is more likely to get you laid.

You are right paying doesn't entitle you to sex, but you're admitting you only pay for the end goal being sex.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I expect to pay​. If she wants to pay or split the bill I might say I got this. If she insists then no big deal. We can split or I can say I got next.

Just be flexible, and set expectations accordingly before you go.

I wouldn't insist on paying if she suggests splitting. Then you're falling into the bs sexism of I have to pay because reasons when she just asked to pay half.

 

[Sectorseven]

Guy or girl, on some level doesn't one person paying the whole tab give them more power in the relationship?

 

[GK86]

If I'm paying, we doing something cheap.

 

[ch4fx_]

Wendy's isn't that expensive, so I usually pick up the tab.

 

[p2535748]

I wouldn't insist on paying if she suggests splitting. Then you're falling into the bs sexism of I have to pay because reasons when she just asked to pay half.

I don't think this is necessarily what he's saying. He doesn't say he insists, just that he doesn't immediately agree to splitting. For example, I'd usually have this conversation:

Bill comes:
Me: I'll take that
Her: We can split
Me: No, it's okay, I'll get it
...

Now, is that sexist? What if I said I do the same thing when I go out with close friends? I'm well enough paid and don't go out that often, so a dinner out isn't a huge deal, and I was raised in an environment where my parents would usually try to pay.

Now, I'm not going to fight about it, and with my friends, we've usually reached the point where we're splitting meals after a while, but it's not necessarily a sexist thing, it could just be a how you were raised/what you're comfortable with thing.

To be clear, I don't think the man should be obligated to pay.

 

[Takuan]

Expected. But if she insists on going dutch, that's a plus. If she insists on returning the favor on date 2, that's also a plus.

I've never had a girl pay for me straight up on a first date, but that'd be cool.