And these sort of women are not worth a second thought.
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I'd like to know what your opinion is on men footing the bill on a date
- Thread starter Ryaaan14
- Start date
And these sort of women are not worth a second thought.
SillyEskimo
Member
I always paid for everything.
Why?
It's less about the budget, more that I don't want to spend money on a person I don't even know (yet).
entremet
Member
It's not a weird crack. It's very intentional lol. I personally don't mind. Again, people's obsession with dogmatic purity sometimes bites them in the ass. Pick your battles.
If you want to go down the Gender Studies rabbit hole what about the amount of money spend on their appearance compared to men?
I don't think the "whoever invites pays" argument holds up under scrutiny. Are you asking a person you like if she likes you enough to go on a date with you and see if you two gel together, or are you paying her for her company? People can actually refuse to go on a date if they don't think they would have a good time or they're just not interested. They're not doing you a favour by agreeing to go on a date with you.
You're gonna have to come up with an actual explanation for this.
You're gonna have to come up with an actual explanation for this.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Most women I've dated have earned more than me. And this is not a uncommon practice to see in Scandinavia for people below 45< The changing winds of women being better and better educated at 5x the rate as men, is also spreading to other countries, and essentially we're already seeing lots of career women who are stigmatized by men who don't want to date them because they feel threatened by the fact that the woman makes a good amount more than the man.
You have people with sexist views who will use this point to harbor the idea that women are more happy earning less and being less career focused, because they would be happier.
To me this is nonsense, but I think a lot of this nonsense lies in this well intentioned classic "real man" virtue of the man paying for the date. To me, imposing that sort of gender based stereotype ignoring all the facets of a persons unique personality and a relationships unique dynamics is toxic and shitty.
Some women are career women who make all the dough. Some men are stay-at-home-dads who went for a shit paying job because they decided to follow a dream or mission. Some men are not just interested in money and some women are.
The reality is that when you impose expectations on someone based on their gender, sexuality or race or religion, you're not giving their true nature the time of day and that turns people into stereotyped boxes. It's a bit like saying that a woman is expected to put out by the third date.
It's like... Are you fucking insane? What gender you are, has zero to do with the expectations you should have with that other person. You're adults, you're equal. You both want to do something. Who asks first or whatever is completely inconsequential.
I've never paid for a first date, but always split, because I don't want to buy myself into a womans pants or flaunder the money I have.
I only want to spend time with women who want to spend time with me, with my income having 0% to do with spending time with me.
If me buying her meals and wiping her ass is some sort of perk or favorable transaction in her head, then I'd rather not waste my time, and find someone who isn't a shallow a piece of shit.
And I'd say the exact thing to any sort of man who pours 100s dollars on a woman like every dollar he spends on her, the more deserving he is of her putting out- again, because it's like a transaction and expected due to shitty outdated cultural norms like you're a man so you do this, and you're a woman so you do that, and that' being the end of it.
I want to share everything I financially can. I buy rounds for my friends and I pay 50% of everything in a relationship. I just don't want to be some ArtofManlinness-eque individual on a person I meet for the first time. It devalues yourself and it devalues her. If she really likes you and she honestly cares about you, sharing and paying for half is the only way it makes any sense whatsoever.
Now, if either the man or the woman say that they cannot afford to pay, that is completely fine. I've done that. I've been on welfare and being unable to pay. A woman wanted to take me out anyway. I had enough for the movie tickets and she bought food. It was more like 70/30, but the difference is that you disclose it before.
All the difference to me is when you impose stereotypes and expectations on who or what you are. Please don't do this. Also I realize that a lot of places in the world, women make seriously less than men, and you can argue that in those places, 50/50 is not an option because women are stigmatized against. I totally get that.
I'm just saying that there are parts of western Europe where this trajectory just doesn't make sense. And that's a good thing. It's still a fight to dispell the idea that a woman who makes a lot more money than the man is not a threat to the mans masculinity. But traditionally the boast that men make the money and are the provider is a integral part of the idea that the man is higher than the woman.
A man who makes less than a woman is a weak bitch, who has nothing going for him, and a woman making a lot more than a man is probably some crazy lady who hates men and drowns kids in a tub. The lifestyle and value changes of the last 30-40 years dictate that these toxic viewpoints of women and mens place in society are flawed. It just doesn't make sense, as we strive towards a more equal and diverse society.
You have people with sexist views who will use this point to harbor the idea that women are more happy earning less and being less career focused, because they would be happier.
To me this is nonsense, but I think a lot of this nonsense lies in this well intentioned classic "real man" virtue of the man paying for the date. To me, imposing that sort of gender based stereotype ignoring all the facets of a persons unique personality and a relationships unique dynamics is toxic and shitty.
Some women are career women who make all the dough. Some men are stay-at-home-dads who went for a shit paying job because they decided to follow a dream or mission. Some men are not just interested in money and some women are.
The reality is that when you impose expectations on someone based on their gender, sexuality or race or religion, you're not giving their true nature the time of day and that turns people into stereotyped boxes. It's a bit like saying that a woman is expected to put out by the third date.
It's like... Are you fucking insane? What gender you are, has zero to do with the expectations you should have with that other person. You're adults, you're equal. You both want to do something. Who asks first or whatever is completely inconsequential.
I've never paid for a first date, but always split, because I don't want to buy myself into a womans pants or flaunder the money I have.
I only want to spend time with women who want to spend time with me, with my income having 0% to do with spending time with me.
If me buying her meals and wiping her ass is some sort of perk or favorable transaction in her head, then I'd rather not waste my time, and find someone who isn't a shallow a piece of shit.
And I'd say the exact thing to any sort of man who pours 100s dollars on a woman like every dollar he spends on her, the more deserving he is of her putting out- again, because it's like a transaction and expected due to shitty outdated cultural norms like you're a man so you do this, and you're a woman so you do that, and that' being the end of it.
I want to share everything I financially can. I buy rounds for my friends and I pay 50% of everything in a relationship. I just don't want to be some ArtofManlinness-eque individual on a person I meet for the first time. It devalues yourself and it devalues her. If she really likes you and she honestly cares about you, sharing and paying for half is the only way it makes any sense whatsoever.
Now, if either the man or the woman say that they cannot afford to pay, that is completely fine. I've done that. I've been on welfare and being unable to pay. A woman wanted to take me out anyway. I had enough for the movie tickets and she bought food. It was more like 70/30, but the difference is that you disclose it before.
All the difference to me is when you impose stereotypes and expectations on who or what you are. Please don't do this. Also I realize that a lot of places in the world, women make seriously less than men, and you can argue that in those places, 50/50 is not an option because women are stigmatized against. I totally get that.
I'm just saying that there are parts of western Europe where this trajectory just doesn't make sense. And that's a good thing. It's still a fight to dispell the idea that a woman who makes a lot more money than the man is not a threat to the mans masculinity. But traditionally the boast that men make the money and are the provider is a integral part of the idea that the man is higher than the woman.
A man who makes less than a woman is a weak bitch, who has nothing going for him, and a woman making a lot more than a man is probably some crazy lady who hates men and drowns kids in a tub. The lifestyle and value changes of the last 30-40 years dictate that these toxic viewpoints of women and mens place in society are flawed. It just doesn't make sense, as we strive towards a more equal and diverse society.
benicillin
Banned
I always prefer to pay but if they decline or offer to split I'm not going to say no and make a big deal out of it.
Skellig Gra
Member
A bit harsh don't you think? Unless you think there are people out there who don't have any flaws.
This. Not only is it the most logical path, it's also the path of least resistance. A real winner. Plus if they want to pay for their half you save some money, which is also a (small) win.
Stallion Dan
Member
What exactly are you paying for if this is the logic you're using?
Skellig Gra
Member
True, in the grand scheme of things men are clearly coming out on top in society despite the horrors of having to pay for dates.
Not harsher than "who wouldn't give a guy a second thought if he didn't pay for everything". Of course people have flaws but if I am on a date and she insisted I had to foot the bill, I immediately know there won't be a second date. Some flaws I can accept, some I can't.
TBiddy
Member
I can't help but feel that a lot of you severely overthink this scenario. It's just a date. Pay for the whole meal, pay for half the meal, pay for nothing or anything inbetween. Just be upfront about it. Unless you're a prick, it's not going to make much of a difference to most people anyways.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Pay? No.
Run.
Run.
Weird, I was having lunch with with a coworker and this topic came up. She is very traditional and insisted there's no chance I'd see her again if she had to pay and seemed in disbelief that I have split a check and still had sex in the same night.
When I thought back on my most recent dating period, the girls I went out with never made any motion to do anything other than split first date but it's possible they were annoyed by that specific thing (given the types of women I was dating, it's very unlikely they cried into their pillow over waning patriarchal symbolism) . From my perspective it's just easier to assume date one is an automatic split when it's Internet based dating; see how it goes first and begin any potential relationship on equal footing.
Large income disparity definitely changes the vibe on either side. And you may believe that guy is joking but ' who's more attractive' can have a deep impact on initial relationship dynamics.
When I thought back on my most recent dating period, the girls I went out with never made any motion to do anything other than split first date but it's possible they were annoyed by that specific thing (given the types of women I was dating, it's very unlikely they cried into their pillow over waning patriarchal symbolism) . From my perspective it's just easier to assume date one is an automatic split when it's Internet based dating; see how it goes first and begin any potential relationship on equal footing.
Large income disparity definitely changes the vibe on either side. And you may believe that guy is joking but ' who's more attractive' can have a deep impact on initial relationship dynamics.
Just don't bother with those women then
I guess it's part of my world view. I want me and a potential partner to be exactly that. Partners a team. I want to find someone that I can work together with so rather than one person wearing the trousers or having all the money in the relationship we would work together.
I'm don't have the time for people that I have to pay to get them to get to know me.
haha pathetic. get some self respect.
You have a sick and twisted mind if you think that paying for a meal somehow entitles you to sex, since that's obviously what you were trying to imply.
Try harder "stallion" dude.
PeskyToaster
Member
I'll pay because it's just easier.
SolidusDave
Member
Most of my first dates have been leading to sex so it's a pretty good investment
Also gives me a reason to pick a new restaurant/food and come on, another person is just like 20-30$ extra. Meh.
Sometimes a girl asks what she owes me which I greatly appreciate (and turn the offer down for that reason).
Unless they insist to split of course. I can understand that they don't want to feel like they owe me something.
Also have to factor in taxi/uber costs for them to get home. In that case I can at least pay for the food.
If I date someone more often, I'll try to implement that we invite each other alternately for daily stuff . I'll still pay more often because I eat more and usually make more money. It's just fair.
Vacation costs we split exactly by half.
Also gives me a reason to pick a new restaurant/food and come on, another person is just like 20-30$ extra. Meh.
Sometimes a girl asks what she owes me which I greatly appreciate (and turn the offer down for that reason).
Unless they insist to split of course. I can understand that they don't want to feel like they owe me something.
Also have to factor in taxi/uber costs for them to get home. In that case I can at least pay for the food.
If I date someone more often, I'll try to implement that we invite each other alternately for daily stuff . I'll still pay more often because I eat more and usually make more money. It's just fair.
Vacation costs we split exactly by half.
Always-honest
Banned
Why an idiot?
ThatStupidLion
Gold Member
Should be 50/50, unless its one person or the others specifically wants to treat the guest. Shouldnt be any expectations.
Alex Stroud
Banned
We've taken turns since date one, for five years now. No gender politics necessary.
LlamaJohnson
Member
I'm curious about the age of everyone posting, if younger people are more inclined to split a bill vs paying for the entire thing.
Im 37, been married for 8 years, but in all my years of dating I have never split a bill. Sure, there were a few times when we went out somewhere or she paid for tickets to a concert or bought something random, but when the bill came, that was my time to pay. I've been with women who have insisted on splitting... In that case I say sure. But I've never asked to split. Maybe it was the way I was raised? Then again, I'm the first one to offer to pay for everything when we go out with another couple, or even when my guy friends and I go out to happy hour. I think it's a nice gesture if you have the means. I know in today's society chivalry is considered sexist, but I know plenty of women my age and older who actually enjoyed being taken out and shown a good time. I still open doors for women (and men as well). I still let a woman go in front of me while waiting in a line. It has nothing to do with thinking that I should receive sex or whatever from doing it. For me it's just a matter of kindness, what being chivalrous has always meant to me (although not to others as I've learned on GAF).
Im 37, been married for 8 years, but in all my years of dating I have never split a bill. Sure, there were a few times when we went out somewhere or she paid for tickets to a concert or bought something random, but when the bill came, that was my time to pay. I've been with women who have insisted on splitting... In that case I say sure. But I've never asked to split. Maybe it was the way I was raised? Then again, I'm the first one to offer to pay for everything when we go out with another couple, or even when my guy friends and I go out to happy hour. I think it's a nice gesture if you have the means. I know in today's society chivalry is considered sexist, but I know plenty of women my age and older who actually enjoyed being taken out and shown a good time. I still open doors for women (and men as well). I still let a woman go in front of me while waiting in a line. It has nothing to do with thinking that I should receive sex or whatever from doing it. For me it's just a matter of kindness, what being chivalrous has always meant to me (although not to others as I've learned on GAF).
I agree with you. I haven't been on the dating scene in ages, but I always felt it was a just a kind gesture to offer to pay for the meal. Kind of like if you went out for drinks/dinner with your friends and offered to pick up the first round or split the appetizers, etc...
I always felt that paying for the meal was just my way of being nice, and if the other person said they wanted to pay, or pay for their half - I just went with it.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
I never dated women with that kind of mentality when I was single.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Dating recently is split check bonanza. I like it, but I always offer to pay. If they say no, I acquiesce.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
First date, I always pay. Onwards, I offer and see how it goes. A lot of women are totally ok with me paying though the few that don't tend to catch my eye more.
BobbyRobby
Member
I always pay. I care more about getting laid than running the risk of reinforcing gender roles.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Pay till I get the cheeks for the first time. After that it's splits. So about the 2nd date onwards
I've been married for over 10 years now so I'm out of the loop on this.
I always paid, if the date offered I would kindly decline and still pay.
I don't think paying for my date is that big of a deal, nor do I think it reinforces gender roles or anything. I was always just trying to treat a person I cared for.
I would also say that whoever initiated the date invitation should be expected to pay, guy or girl. You don't say "Hey I want to take you to this fancy restaurant, but you gotta pay for yourself."
I always paid, if the date offered I would kindly decline and still pay.
I don't think paying for my date is that big of a deal, nor do I think it reinforces gender roles or anything. I was always just trying to treat a person I cared for.
I would also say that whoever initiated the date invitation should be expected to pay, guy or girl. You don't say "Hey I want to take you to this fancy restaurant, but you gotta pay for yourself."
SliceSabre
Banned
The dates I've been on I offered and the girl I was with declined or we split it in some way. i.e. Got something to eat and I paid for the meal and she paid for the movie tickets.
John Kowalski
Banned
Promote financial independence.
ClosingADoor
Member
Most of the time I pay, since I'm the one asking them out. About half the time they offer to split or pay themselves. I don't really care either way.
HawksWinStanley
Member
This is the GAFiest post I've read in a while.
Depths of Orion
Member
I pretty much covered all dates for the first couple of years with my gf. Now that she makes a lot more money she pays for 75% of them.
Why are they going out on a date with "some weirdo dude"?
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