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Crossplay is pushed by the underdog

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Nanashrew

Banned
No, i'm not.
I mentioned AAA because that has the biggest impact.
How could they allow one, but not the other?
How would they try to defend it?
Who would even decide what is indie and what not?
And why would they even allow indie?

They currently have a competitive advantage by having most of the market and thus most of the players. That creates a (big) reason to buy a ps4 instead of a One, because "all my friend's have a ps4 and i want to play with them" and one can expect to still find players on the ps4 when the One version already died out.

People are basically asking them to throw away a competitive advantage (and i'm not against this btw).
It's no coincidence that last gen the roles were reversed.

Well they've already thrown away Minecraft. A game that has done nothing but good for them because it constantly sells and lined their pockets with money. All while bringing a ton of kids to their platform because that's who it sells to the most.

Or the one time Sony published it in Japan and it was their first million seller in roughly 20 years.
 

Izuna

Banned
What, mandatory setup?

Well to be frank, i use OSX and my last windows game was battlefield 1942…

You don't need a Microsoft account to log into Windows, but you do if you want to use the services. Similarly, if you want to purchase Office365 you need a Microsoft account to do it. Same if you want to log into Groove, or Skype, Bing Rewards...

A Microsoft Account is all you need, and like with a Google account, the more services you want to use it connects to that account (but the login details are the same). On the plus, a Microsoft Account doesn't have to be @hotmail or more recently, @outlook -- it can be any Email Address (even one that doesn't exists because afaik they don't require confirmation).

For example, I have a 360 XBL account that has @360gaming, a domain that didn't exist at the time.
 

tzare

Member
We really need to stop the focus on the who or the why, the what is the important factor for everyone as gamers.

disagree. Decisions have to be made with logic and common sense.This is a business. As a gamer, i could argue that if i payed for Rocket League on steam i should have the game for free on any other platform,Switch for example. Just because something may be good for a custormer it does not mean it has to be that way, because it could mean failure on the other side of the equation.
 

tkalamba

Member
"If you need a good example, lets take Destiny. If cross play was enabled, I would absolutely be getting that on the X (or PC). I prefer the controls and it would probably be more stable. All my Destiny friends are on PS4 and there is no cross play. So you know I only have one choice."

And here lies one of the issues. Sony (or anyone else) most likely don't want to lose users to crossplatform play, since they know they got the bigger install base and a bigger online presence.

If they were worried about that, then that would signal they have no confidence in their own product. They would then have to compete on the value they offer, which in my opinion is lacking considering they don't have BC or any of the additional subscription services like EA access. This would still be a benefit for the average consumer as it would force Sony to actually improve their offering.
 

KageMaru

Member
disagree. Decisions have to be made with logic and common sense.This is a business. As a gamer, i could argue that if i payed for Rocket League on steam i should have the game for free on any other platform,Switch for example. Just because something may be good for a custormer it does not mean it has to be that way, because it could mean failure on the other side of the equation.

Crossplay is not going to cause Sony to fail. True it's a business, but only the shareholders in this thread should really care about the business side, the rest have nothing to lose by this being enabled.
 

New002

Member
Yes it's usually the underdogs pushing for this. Yes you can argue that it's in Sony's benefit from a business perspective to hold out on cross-platform play. Yes MS did the same shit. None of this is a secret. You didn't strike gold OP. People know this. It really just boils down to...

...Does it even matter? Really, who cares who is pushing for it when it's a net positive for everyone involved?

^That.

If we're looking at things from a business perspective then I can understand why map packs that split the player base exist. I can understand why shitty micro transactions exist. I can understand why characters in fighting games are sold to consumers as DLC vs being included as unlockables like back in the day. I can understand why companies want to push for DRM on their games. I can understand why purchasing/negotiating for timed and permanent exclusivity on DLC and games is a thing.

Just because someone understands it doesn't mean they as a consumer have to like it, or actively support it or defend it or excuse it or whatever.

In regard to cross-play people are trying to treat this like if it happens Sony will go down in flames or something. People are trying to make the argument that if people ask for cross-play why don't they just ask for free systems...really? Get out of here with that. Pushing for Cross-play is nowhere near the same level as expecting these companies to just give you their systems for free.

This Minecraft situation is a unique opportunity. It's the closest we have come to cross-platform play between everyone, and it's worth fighting to get that last hold-out to jump in. I genuinely feel that if this happens and it gets the ball rolling...and cross-play can shift to becoming a consumer expectation...then companies won't be able to afford not to be involved in the future, whether they are in "first" or "last" place. And if this does happen and cross-play becomes a thing, and you're one of the people that doesn't give two shits about it...great...nothing has really changed for you. But for everyone else that wants it, it's a positive. So I'm not seeing any negatives for any consumers.
 

Moneal

Member
For sony this isn't about Minecraft or Rocket League. Its about COD, battlefield, madden, and fifa. If EA or activision came to sony wanting to do crossplay, it removes the competitive advantage they have this gen, install base. If any of those did ask sony and they already allowed minecraft or rocket league it would be harder to say no. though if ea or acti pressured sony they would cave, though it would be hard to justify pressuring them due to the previously mentioned install base.
 
I think it's really dumb but I understand it. If you let rocket league and minecraft come in, why not Destiny and call of duty? but if you do that, then what about the PS4 exclusive content you've payed for? Sony wants other platform users to look at their games and think "all my friends are over there, AND they get extra stuff?? I guess I'll have to buy a PS4 to play with them."
 

Nanashrew

Banned
For sony this isn't about Minecraft or Rocket League. Its about COD, battlefield, madden, and fifa. If EA or activision came to sony wanting to do crossplay, it removes the competitive advantage they have this gen, install base. If any of those did ask sony and they already allowed minecraft or rocket league it would be harder to say no. though if ea or acti pressured sony they would cave, though it would be hard to justify pressuring them due to the previously mentioned install base.

I don't know anything about what EA or Activision or what any of them are thinking about all this right now. But you already have an industry veteran from Namco Bandai wanting it to happen. Katsuhiro Harada, the creator of the Tekken series.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4xbox-one-cross-play-should-happen-tekken-boss-s/1100-6449618/
 

tkalamba

Member
For sony this isn't about Minecraft or Rocket League. Its about COD, battlefield, madden, and fifa. If EA or activision came to sony wanting to do crossplay, it removes the competitive advantage they have this gen, install base. If any of those did ask sony and they already allowed minecraft or rocket league it would be harder to say no. though if ea or acti pressured sony they would cave, though it would be hard to justify pressuring them due to the previously mentioned install base.

I thought Exclusives were really their major advantage?
 

Trup1aya

Member
as a consumer, it is the developer the one that is blocking the content for ps4 , not sony. Sony is blocking crossplay, not the content.
SO you are fine with MS blocking content because it doesn't make sense for them logistically(before you said as a consumer, but does not seem like that when talking about MS) but find it a bad move on Sony's part because depite it may it also doesn't make sense for them (whatever reasons they have), now you are again a consumer. Is this how things work?

No, the developer isn't 'blocking' content for PS4. They decided not to give special attention to The PS4 version, because the platform holder is blocking that version from the ecosystem- its this ecosystem that funds the development of the update and its content.

They still do offer a PS4 minecraft game that allows connectivity between PS4 players- which is adequate support given the circumstances.
 

tzare

Member
Crossplay is not going to cause Sony to fail. True it's a business, but only the shareholders in this thread should really care about the business side, the rest have nothing to lose by this being enabled.

You don't know how would affect sony. Do you really think that if it didn't have implications , they wouldn't have allowed it?

And yes, if you do only see this as a consumer, you are as selfish as sony or any other corporation. In the end we as gamers , need a solid gaming busines, profitable to keep games and services alive.

No, the developer isn't 'blocking' content for PS4. They decided not to give special attention to The PS4 version, because the platform holder is blocking that version from the ecosystem.
interesting spin not to recognize that MS is doing exactly the same as sony, prioritizing their view over customer support. Exactly what MS probably wanted to happen anyway, SOny are the bad guys here, we would make ps4 version great, but they don't want to give us what we want so...
 

Nanashrew

Banned
as a consumer, it is the developer the one that is blocking the content for ps4 , not sony. Sony is blocking crossplay, not the content.
SO you are fine with MS blocking content because it doesn't make sense for them logistically(before you said that we should consider this as consumers, but does not seem like that when talking about MS) but find it a bad move on Sony's part because despite it may it also doesn't make sense for them (whatever reasons they have), now you are again a consumer. Is this how things work?

Microsoft approached both Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo said yes, Sony said no.

Check out plenty of the other threads that are likely still on the front page of GAF and maybe keep up.

MS isn't simply going to make another version of Minecraft for Sony after EVERYONE ELSE got on board for a unified single version of Minecraft rather than multiple fractured console, mobile and PC variants. The crossplay comes with it, it's part of the new engine and everything and to unify the playerbase. The whole thing about the relaunch of Minecraft is unification.
 
as a consumer, it is the developer the one that is blocking the content for ps4 , not sony. Sony is blocking crossplay, not the content.
SO you are fine with MS blocking content because it doesn't make sense for them logistically(before you said that we should consider this as consumers, but does not seem like that when talking about MS) but find it a bad move on Sony's part because despite it may it also doesn't make sense for them (whatever reasons they have), now you are again a consumer. Is this how things work?

This is the most hilarious thing I have read. If Sony doesn't wanna put the infrastructure in place to allow developers to realize their vision that is no ones fault but theres. If fucking Nintendo can get down with online play Sony has no excuse. PS4 owners should bitch until they open it up. Not Microsofts problem that Google, Apple and Nintendo can make their life easy but Sony cant.
 

Moneal

Member
I thought Exclusives were really their major advantage?

a big exclusive does 3-4M, fifa and COD do 10M a year. and cod is the best selling game on each console every year. more people buy ps4 or xbox one because of where their friends and family play than for exclusives. so install base is the biggest advantage a leading console has, and the biggest hurdle for consoles trying to make up that ground.
 
Already did tbf

Got Nioh, USFIV (which I played for a day because...) and Titanfall 2 which I played a little bit to play with PS4GAF and to test out the Pro I had -- even got a CronusMax etc. It doesn't affect my buying exclusives if I wanted them. I'd probably not play MHW at all if it's dead on PC/XboxOne.

If I want to play Destiny 2, I would have to pick which system based on which friends I have on each console. And frankly, it fucking sucks.

Agreed, but i must say that for a lot of people i know that isn't an issue… mainly because everyone i know is playing on a PS4 (Europe dominance).

"If you need a good example, lets take Destiny. If cross play was enabled, I would absolutely be getting that on the X (or PC). I prefer the controls and it would probably be more stable. All my Destiny friends are on PS4 and there is no cross play. So you know I only have one choice."

And here lies one of the issues. Sony (or anyone else) most likely don't want to lose users to crossplatform play, since they know they got the bigger install base and a bigger online presence.

You know, the more i read about it the more i realize it's a complex situation.
 

Trup1aya

Member
interesting spin not to recognize that MS is doing exactly the same as sony, prioritizing their view over customer support. Exactly what MS probably wanted to happen anyway, SOny are the bad guys here, we would make ps4 version great, but they don't want to give us what we want so...

It's not spin, it's facts.

MS view is identical to what is most beneficial to the customer- a unified ecosystem with purchases carrying over regardless off platform. That's called a win-win.

the current PS4 version of minecraft is already isolated from the rest. There is no need for the update if it's going to to continue to exist with it's own ecosystem and require its own servers. They'll just carry on as they have been.

It's mindless to expect a developer to go out of their way to add features to a version of the game that is purposefully being hamstrung by the platform holder. How does one justify that extra cost? Sony is actively making the PS4 version less desirable, and you think MS should pour more effort into it?
 

Gattsu25

Banned
I don't see why anyone should cheer this not being implemented.

There is also precedent for this as Sony already allowed crossplay after signing in with an external login system for:
  • Final Fantasy 11: PlayOnline Login --> PC and PS2 crossplay
  • Portal 2: Steam Login --> PC and PS3 crossplay
  • Final Fantasy 14: SquareEnixID Login --> PC and PS3/PS4 crossplay
 

Oersted

Member
No, i'm not.
I mentioned AAA because that has the biggest impact.
How could they allow one, but not the other?
How would they try to defend it?

Noone, including you, buys their current defense.

How are you concerned how they would defend it? Are you worried about PR damage?
 
Sony allows crossplay for DQX because they wouldn't get the game otherwise and they're weaker in Japan.

So yeah it's blatant what their standards are.

That's because DQX doesn't have an Xbox release. If Rocket League and Minecraft were only on Nintendo systems and PC, I guarantee they'd be more willing to allow cross play.
 

Trup1aya

Member
That's because DQX doesn't have an Xbox release. If Rocket League and Minecraft were only on Nintendo systems and PC, I guarantee they'd be more willing to allow cross play.

Even though pc and Nintendo are direct competitors, just like Xbox... what's the logic behind this selection process?
 

Oersted

Member
Explain ff14

That was 4 years ago. 4 years ago, you enjoyed a great PlayStation Plus lineup, free online and would have attacked Microsoft for blocking cross play.

Its been a while.

That's because DQX doesn't have an Xbox release. If Rocket League and Minecraft were only on Nintendo systems and PC, I guarantee they'd be more willing to allow cross play.

Is the guarantee based on anything?
 

Tinman dX

Banned
Crossplay on Sony's end would actually benefit them for me personally. All my friends game on Xbox. If X1X doesn't have a noticable difference in games over PS4 Pro, and Sony and MS had crossplay with games like Battlefront and COD. I'd get the cheaper PS4 Pro as my upgrade instead of X1X and still play with my Xbox friends!
 

shandy706

Member
Who cares who is pushing it, it's still something that benefits consumers.

It's pro-consumer to want it...and I don't care who is or isn't pushing it.
 
The first cross play game on Nintendo 3DS was Pure Chess and that handheld console was not really an underdog in 2014.

Eh? Portal 2 was no?

Then we had rocket league on ps4/pc crossplay, and street fighter 5 and ff 14.

Doesnt sony have thr most crossplay games right now? Ironic hahaa
 

Storm Brewer

Neo Member
a big exclusive does 3-4M, fifa and COD do 10M a year. and cod is the best selling game on each console every year. more people buy ps4 or xbox one because of where their friends and family play than for exclusives. so install base is the biggest advantage a leading console has, and the biggest hurdle for consoles trying to make up that ground.

By that logic, if the xbox/switch/PC/mobile install base is larger than the PS install base, people are more likely to join the former group of systems than the latter.

I think at the moment PS install base is larger than the combined other install base, but assuming ninty reaches similar success to the 3DS, it's not unreasonable to think the combined user base will eventually eclipse Sony's. I'm not a negotiation expert, but wouldn't it be in Sony's best interest to negotiate from a position of strength rather than weakness?
 

TheExodu5

Banned
It doesn't matter.

Rejecting crossplay is anti-consumer and stands to benefit only the market leader, while penalizing its own consumers.

Platform agnostic multiplayer is a huge step forward for the industry, and Sony is holding back major progress. I refuse to support them in this case, and will subsequently cancel PS Plus and avoid purchasing any multiplayer titles on Sony platforms.
 
Imagine the older Souls games if they had cross-play. You would be able to find someone to summon/invade no matter how many years later you play them.
 

AmFreak

Member
How are you concerned how they would defend it? Are you worried about PR damage?
Maybe because i argued from their perspective, because i argued against the notion that their situation is comparable to Apple's and Google's?
The, you know, whole reason for my original post.
 

Upinsmoke

Member
OP is bang on.

MS specifically are going out of there way to make a competitor look bad, if they made better games people wanted to play they wouldn't have this issue.

We've had it with the cross-play

Undermining 4k capabilities of the pro, saying it doesn't compete with xb1x but the XB1S

And also the sniping at exclusive bonuses like Destiny maps and weapons
 
OP is bang on.

MS specifically are going out of there way to make a competitor look bad, if they made better games people wanted to play they wouldn't have this issue.

How does that explain the Rocket League developer calling out Sony on their stupid point of view with cross-play?
 

Anion

Member
I feel like a majority of posters in the past were a bit conservative about online gaming protocol

Really glad to see progressive thought from so many users, makes me hopeful that eventually Sony will have to join to make the best online experience
 

Peltz

Member
I mean.... I'm never hurting for people to play with in Rocket League. But seriously, a bigger pool to play with is only a good thing for everyone.

As a PS4 player, I'd much rather have the biggest pool of potential opponents rather than just stick to other PS4 players.

There's really no excuse other than greed. This isn't thinking about PS4 gamers first. It's to my detriment as a PS4 gamer that this isn't being allowed.
 

gai_shain

Member
OP is bang on.

MS specifically are going out of there way to make a competitor look bad, if they made better games people wanted to play they wouldn't have this issue.

What?
Crossplay might be pushed because they dont have the best selling console but in the end it is something that benefits us all.
I dont get the point of trying to make Microsoft look bad here.
 

KageMaru

Member
You don't know how would affect sony. Do you really think that if it didn't have implications , they wouldn't have allowed it?

And yes, if you do only see this as a consumer, you are as selfish as sony or any other corporation. In the end we as gamers , need a solid gaming busines, profitable to keep games and services alive.


interesting spin not to recognize that MS is doing exactly the same as sony, prioritizing their view over customer support. Exactly what MS probably wanted to happen anyway, SOny are the bad guys here, we would make ps4 version great, but they don't want to give us what we want so...

Yes, I truly don't think they are considering all of the implications, especially how these decisions can negatively impact them going forward. I think they see their market position and believe they don't need to cooperate with anyone else on this issue. However the fewer copies of Minecraft, Rocket League, and whatever future games sold on their platform is bad for their business.

Yes I'm being selfish, won't anyone think of these poor billion dollar companies? What do you lose by them enabling this? Nothing.

See this posts just goes to show how far reaching some of you can be. It was MS' plan or hope to make Sony look like the bad guy? Oh come on! lol The conspiracy theories and mental gymnastics some of you are posting is pretty damn silly. I understand having a preference, mine flips every so often, but to be so emotionally attached to a company to defend anti-consumer decisions is baffling.
 
In a world increasingly dominated by third party online multiplayer gaming on consoles, one of the most powerful motivating factors influencing the decisions of new console buyers is the "where my friends are playing"... it's the network effect.

Sony and Microsoft, however, are in different positions in the marketplace and thus are seeing two different equations as it relates to this effect.

Sony is leading console sales globally at greater than 2:1 for PS4s:XB1s.

This means that for every new consumer in the market for a new console, there's a >2/3 chance that said player has friends playing on PS4 and not XB1.

For Sony, "where my friends are playing" is more valuable, as it continually reinforced their lead in the marketplace.

For MS, giving up the less than 1/3 of buyers who are buying XB1 mainly because their friends all play on the platform is much easier. But on the other hand, for MS, giving up that minimal network advantage for the chance at killing Sony's network advantage outright with cross-play, is a much more valuable opportunity.

For Sony, given their market position, enabling cross-play to gain a little gamer goodwill would be hugely costly, as it would entirely invalidate their network advantage and one of the principal reasons that new console buyers are choosing PS4 over its competing platform.

We can argue all day about the gamer interests all we like, but Sony like MS is a business and so isn't looking to hand their direct competitor in the market a free ride, merely so that gamers can enjoy a bit of novelty.

Until, every single major games publisher is implementing cross-play between all willing platforms in all major new releases, to the exclusion of Sony, Sony will be unlikely to chance their policy on this. And in many ways we shouldn't blame them for looking out for their own corporate interests... as that's what companies exist to do.

If we're going to start complaining that companies should be putting their customer's interests above their corporate interests (something no successful company does ever), then why stop at cross-play? Why not get on at Sony, MS and Nintendo for not publishing their games on all platforms? After all, that's better for gamers; corporate interests be damned.
 

Oersted

Member
Eh? Portal 2 was no?

Then we had rocket league on ps4/pc crossplay, and street fighter 5 and ff 14.

Doesnt sony have thr most crossplay games right now? Ironic hahaa

Street Fighter is a paid exclusive you jokster.

And are you really using cross play as an argument against cross play?
 

Storm Brewer

Neo Member
In a world increasingly dominated by third party online multiplayer gaming on consoles, one of the most powerful motivating factors influencing the decisions of new console buyers is the "where my friends are playing"... it's the network effect.

Sony and Microsoft, however, are in different positions in the marketplace and thus are seeing two different equations as it relates to this effect.

Sony is leading console sales globally at greater than 2:1 for PS4s:XB1s.

This means that for every new consumer in the market for a new console, there's a >2/3 chance that said player has friends playing on PS4 and not XB1.

For Sony, "where my friends are playing" is more valuable, as it continually reinforced their lead in the marketplace.

For MS, giving up the less than 1/3 of buyers who are buying XB1 mainly because their friends all play on the platform is much easier. But on the other hand, for MS, giving up that minimal network advantage for the chance at killing Sony's network advantage outright with cross-play, is a much more valuable opportunity.

For Sony, given their market position, enabling cross-play to gain a little gamer goodwill would be hugely costly, as it would entirely invalidate their network advantage and one of the principal reasons that new console buyers are choosing PS4 over its competing platform.

We can argue all day about the gamer interests all we like, but Sony like MS is a business and so isn't looking to hand their direct competitor in the market a free ride, merely so that gamers can enjoy a bit of novelty.

Until, every single major games publisher is implementing cross-play between all willing platforms in all major new releases, to the exclusion of Sony, Sony will be unlikely to chance their policy on this. And in many ways we shouldn't blame them for looking out for their own corporate interests... as that's what companies exist to do.

If we're going to start complaining that companies should be putting their customer's interests above their corporate interests (something no successful company does ever), then why stop at cross-play? Why not get on at Sony, MS and Nintendo for not publishing their games on all platforms? After all, that's better for gamers; corporate interests be damned.

By that logic, if the xbox/switch/PC/mobile install base is larger than the PS install base, people are more likely to join the former group of systems than the latter.

I think at the moment PS install base is larger than the combined other install base, but assuming ninty reaches similar success to the 3DS, it's not unreasonable to think the combined user base will eventually eclipse Sony's. I'm not a negotiation expert, but wouldn't it be in Sony's best interest to negotiate from a position of strength rather than weakness?

That's why.
 
Yes, I truly don't think they are considering all of the implications, especially how these decisions can negatively impact them going forward. I think they see their market position and believe they don't need to cooperate with anyone else on this issue. However the fewer copies of Minecraft, Rocket League, and whatever future games sold on their platform is bad for their business.

Yes I'm being selfish, won't anyone think of these poor billion dollar companies? What do you lose by them enabling this? Nothing.

See this posts just goes to show how far reaching some of you can be. It was MS' plan or hope to make Sony look like the bad guy? Oh come on! lol The conspiracy theories and mental gymnastics some of you are posting is pretty damn silly. I understand having a preference, mine flips every so often, but to be so emotionally attached to a company to defend anti-consumer decisions is baffling.

This is what makes me sad about all this. How can anyone be ok with this, or just shrug it off because business is busines?
 
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