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[Trup1aya]

why not? wouldn't it be viable? I mean there are tons of games that are not crossplay, inf fact 99% of them, that receive all kind of updates without problems, even from small devs, so i am sure the money maker that is minecraft could afford it.

It is easy. MS wants unified platformdespite knowing is dealing with different online services, and can do what they see fit, but it is a business and strategic decision and use their strong position owning an important IP and putting sony in a difficult stance.

Why should sony allow it, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a proprietary online service?

You answered your own question. MS wants a unified platform. Minecraft players on all platforms would greatly benefit from this unified platform- even Sony players.

Why shouldn't Sony allow it? How does it defeat the purpose? PS4 players would still need PS+ to play the game online. The free xbl account is just so minecraft players on all networks can use minecrafts social features together (friends list, messaging, private realms etc) and so that their purchases can follow them.

By not allowing it Sony is essentially ensuring PS4 start looking at other versions and stop buying Minecraft DLC on PS4. They are weakening their proprietary platform.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

His message is that the Xbox 1X is designed so that current gen games can push native 4K (true 4K) at framerate, without changing settings. The PS4 is not.

If developers choose to use different techniques to reach 4K, that's up to them. There's nothing misleading about that.

No thats just your hypothesis.
Nowhere has anyone said that it is designed to run all xb1 games at xb1 settings at native 4k.
Its just more likely to than ps4pro.

He used the words true 4k, which his site says includes cbr, same as pro.

Neither systems are locked out of native 4k and nither are are going to attain it always.only xb1 will hit higher targets more often.

But him saying that doesnt make the $100 difference exciting.

 

[Trup1aya]

No thats just your hypothesis.
Nowhere has anyone said that it is designed to run all xb1 games at xb1 settings at native 4k.
Its just more likely to than ps4pro.

He used the words true 4k, which his site says includes cbr, same as pro.

Neither systems are locked out of native 4k and nither are are going to attain it always.only xb1 will hit higher targets more often.

But him saying that doesnt make the $100 difference exciting.

No, this is what was said numerous times. Countless interviews...

The DF deep dive couldn't be more clear. The hardware target was to allow devs push all 900p or better xb1 games to native 4K.

They also said from the beginning that devs dont HAVE to use the power in this manner.

Edit: of course, none of this has anything to do with cross-play

 

[The Boat]

Who cares about what happened years ago? Right now, MS is open to crossplay, Sony isn't. It's as simple as that, there's no need to bend over backwards to paint Sony in a good light.

 

[m00h]

That isn't a benefit to them if Xbox and Nintendo can claim the same. All they're doing is losing the advantage of the playerbase they've cultivated, making it a net loss.

In any case there's no need to reply to this - I won't read it. 'Fanboys' is enough to know that discussing this with you is worthless. I own all of the modern consoles but I'm a fanboy because I'm trying to discuss this issue from a business perspective. Okay, let's try it your way. "Crossplay would be really cool".

People don't want to think such things through nowdays. They don't want to see rational aspects behind some moves and decisions. All they want to do is so badmouth something or someone. They want to exaggerate. And for the main part, they want everyone to agree with them. As someone who works in the marketing, I love those kind of consumers. They are easy to manage and susceptible to influencer marketing.

 

[KageMaru]

Did you read the full thing or is this just how you plan to form your arguments?
The lie is in the fact that he claims xbox exists in a different stratosphere because it doesnt when infact it does.
Xb1x uses the exact same technique except it doesnt have 4k ingrained on its microprocessor.
Phil says it doesn't.
Are you really not seeing it?

I agree that it was a stupid thing to say but it's also intentionally vague. Unless I'm mistaken when looking at the Pro support list on GAF, it looks like the majority of current gen AAA non sports games use upscaling and not CBR to reach a 4K resolution. Mass Effect Andromeda, Infamous, Battlefield 1, Uncharted 4, Fallout 4, and Resident Evil 7 are some examples to a game upscaling to 4K instead of using CBR to reach that resolution. So do we know that he's talking about CBR specifically?

 

[Wiped89]

It doesn't sound like Microsoft's Minecraft solution is 'cross play' in the purest sense. It sounds like everyone on every console logging into Xbox Live servers, rather than mixing PSN/Switch/Live. So I can see why Sony wouldn't go for it. It will boost MAUs.
On the other hand, Microsoft could have kept Minecraft an Xbox exclusive.

 

[tzare]

You answered your own question. MS wants a unified platform. Minecraft players on all platforms would greatly benefit from this unified platform- even Sony players.

Why shouldn't Sony allow it? How does it defeat the purpose? PS4 players would still need PS+ to play the game online. The xbl account is just so players on all networks can use minecrafts social features and so that their purchases can follow them.

By not allowing it Sony is essentially ensuring PS4 start looking at other versions and stop buying Minecraft DLC on PS4. They are weakening their proprietary platform.

You forget the part that MS also benefits from it. They do not do this for the players, but for themselves. Do the players(most of them) get a benefit from this? Sure. But let's not forget the reasons behind are business ones, not altruistic. It is a specific case because MS is the owner of minecraft. So seems a good way to put pressure on sony. It is a win win situation, or sony gets bad reputation, or forces them to allow crossplay with XBL. Rocket League seems to be a different case that may share in common just the XBL thing. I wonder if sony had allowd crossplay if XBL wasn't involved, only PC and switch.

And maybe you can explain why (unless i am not mistaken) a 4K patch is tied to that unified servers and cannot be enjoyed by PS4pro owners. I understand social services and other things, but fact points to MS using crossplay as a weapon.

 

[Defuser]

The way I see it is Sony is more concerned about crossplay affecting potential new buyers long term.

Assuming a new hot game comes out with crossplay that allows PS4/XB1/Switch/PC to be played together and a average consumer want to buy a console to play with their friends, wouldn't the average consumer buy the cheaper console or another similar price console other than Sony's PS4 because they would think it doesn't matter what brand you buy you can still play with your friends from other consoles. Thats a loss of sale for Sony right there.

 

[CookTrain]

The way I see it is Sony is more concerned about crossplay affecting potential new buyers long term.

Assuming a new hot game comes out with crossplay that allows PS4/XB1/Switch/PC to be played together and a average consumer want to buy a console to play with their friends, wouldn't the average consumer buy the cheaper console or another similar price console other than Sony's PS4 because they would think it doesn't matter what brand you buy you can still play with your friends from other consoles. Thats a loss of sale for Sony right there.

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

 

[Izuna]

Didn't you hear? People buy PS4s to play third parties with their friends, not the exclusives.

 

[Trup1aya]

It doesn't sound like Microsoft's Minecraft solution is 'cross play' in the purest sense. It sounds like everyone on every console logging into Xbox Live servers, rather than mixing PSN/Switch/Live.So I can see why Sony wouldn't go for it. It will boost MAUs.
On the other hand, Microsoft could have kept Minecraft an Xbox exclusive.

This is not true. Players first log into the service for their platform of choice. Then that account is linked to a free xbl account so that ALL players can use universal social features.

 

[Uno Venova]

It doesn't make sense for Sony to do. "I want to play with my friends, and most of my friends have a PS4, so I'll get this game on that" works more often in their favor, due to their large market share.

Conceding that advantage is illogical.

Pretty much, and I'm not going to expect a company to make every decision to please every subset of a community. They think about themselves first, and that's probably why they're still here.

 

[Defuser]

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

They did, it's called the 599 PS3. Guess who 'won' last gen. Price is everything.

 

[mcrommert]

No, this is what was said numerous times. Countless interviews...

The DF deep dive couldn't be more clear. The hardware target was to allow devs push all 900p or better xb1 games to native 4K.

They also said from the beginning that devs dont HAVE to use the power in this manner.

Edit: of course, none of this has anything to do with cross-play

Yep...the reason why games like ac aren't hitting full 4k is instead of doing that they are moving from medium pc settings to high/ultra

This is what he meant when he said let the devs decide

They did, it's called the 599 PS3. Guess who 'won' last gen.

Nintendo? Also with such a drop from the ps2...it can easily be argued that 360 won over ps3

But this is nonsense console wars garbage

 

[gamz]

They did, it's called the 599 PS3. Guess who 'won' last gen.

I did! I bought it and loved that fatty! Leave it be.

 

[m00h]

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

What a childish post. That's certainly not how business works.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

That is a painfully ignorant thing to say.

Have you ever heard of Windows?

What, mandatory setup?

Well to be frank, i use OSX and my last windows game was battlefield 1942…

 

[MetalliCabombination]

I agree that it was a stupid thing to say but it's also intentionally vague. Unless I'm mistaken when looking at the Pro support list on GAF, it looks like the majority of current gen AAA non sports games use upscaling and not CBR to reach a 4K resolution. Mass Effect Andromeda, Infamous, Battlefield 1, Uncharted 4, Fallout 4, and Resident Evil 7 are some examples to a game upscaling to 4K instead of using CBR to reach that resolution. So do we know that he's talking about CBR specifically?

Upscaling is a hardcoded technique and it barely if at all affect picture quality these days . It will work with every ps4 game even if it 240p.
All those games you listed run at far far higher resolution than their xb1 counterparts, they dont have cbr because its not very easy to implement. Anything using less than 2160p resolution, be it locked or dynamic will use upscaling. And it will be the same for xb1x.
So to imply xb1s is comparable to the pro for that is either idiotic or intentionally misleading.

 

[tzare]

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

so with consoles being more powerful, using standard pc CPU/GPU architecture, every 3-4 years (if we get mid gen refreshes) , how can they differentiate from a tech POV? Even last gen with different architectures, ps360 were commonly known as HD Twins. So we only have AMD and NVidia, choices are very limited and makes consoles (and PC) kinda samey. It is like XBOX X, it can only have what is available for the price they are targeting, jaguars and a upclocked GPU. Just like pro last year. And just like ps5 will have affordable tech that is available when it launches.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

I have a PS4 and I'm upset.

Or do I have to also have to NOT have an Xbox?

Will you stop buying games? ;-)

 

[MetalliCabombination]

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

Is this is a joke post?
Why not start making first party games multiplats as well?
Why the captive audience. Surely it helps gamers and they sell more copies so why won't they do it?

 

[Trup1aya]

You forget the part that MS also benefits from it. They do not do this for the players, but for themselves. Do the players(most of them) get a benefit from this? Sure. But let's not forget the reasons behind are business ones, not altruistic. It is a specific case because MS is the owner of minecraft. So seems a good way to put pressure on sony. It is a win win situation, or sony gets bad reputation, or forces them to allow crossplay with XBL. Rocket League seems to be a different case that may share in common just the XBL thing. I wonder if sony had allowd crossplay if XBL wasn't involved, only PC and switch.

And maybe you can explain why (unless i am not mistaken) a 4K patch is tied to that unified servers and cannot be enjoyed by PS4pro owners. I understand social services and other things, but fact points to MS using crossplay as a weapon.

as I consumer, why should I care which company benefits?

Sony should care about what benefits their customers And then benefit from their customers being satisfied.

The deal with the 4K patch is that developing this content across multiple platforms inevitably takes a bunch of work- and PS4 specific work doesn't make sense logistically if Sony isn't participating in the larger ecosystem.

 

[CookTrain]

What a childish post. That's certainly not how business works.

Well it is. Eventually. It's not an alien proposition that at some point, consoles won't be distinct enough for it to matter. It's been proposed a hundred different ways that consoles could wind up no different than TVs or toasters.

If people are so concerned about the fragility of the PS4 player base on the notion that not being tied down will bring it all come crumbling, maybe it's not me with the business misunderstanding.

The world is moving towards openness. It has it's bumps in the road and it clearly has it's holdouts in just about every category. It's fraught with hypocrisy and selfishness from almost every party and obviously it will always be motivated by the underlying money to be made, mindshare to be gained. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, or that it won't happen. Pigeonholed console gaming is gonna go the way of the dodo because people expect more. Your phone talks to your TV talks to your goddamned fridge if you're swanky enough these days. But my copy of Battlefield isn't fit with your Battlefield because "business"? Not for much longer.

 

[Nesther]

I really hope they further push crossplay at least with PC. I have a few friends that will prolly opt for the PC version of MHW so it'd be neat to play with them. I mean quite a few games allow that: Rocket League, FFXIV and SFV come to mind, so they should just make it universal.

 

[travisbickle]

I'll put money on it happening by the launch of the Minecraft update. Maybe Minecraft will be an exception but it will happen because that game is massive.

Also, I don't know why people act like trade conferences are wrestling matches, as if one employee is going to respond to the "smackdown" of a competitor employee. What will happen is they'll go back to Sony HQ and make a power point presentation for their seniors of the pros and cons.

 

[Give War A Chance]

We're still making this thread with a new name? You'd thinkE3 would have given us more to talk about than some fantasy that'll likely not happen for a very very long time.

 

[Diablohead]

I still remember an 4x4 racing game on dreamcast, mac and pc could all play together, not sure if it came out in the end or if it was limited to NTSC regions maybe.

I know Quake 3 DC could play against pc users if they had the right setup, they needed the maps dumped from the DC disc and a way to connect to the same server via IP address, wasn't really a planned cross play thing but it worked.

 

[AmFreak]

So basically Sony can't sell a console on the merits of it's tech? They need a captive audience?

The whole point of a console is that the audience is held captive.

 

[Hellshy.]

and yet some people that consider sony is doing wrong regarding crossplay, think MS are right on this, 'because' it makes sense for them to have unified servers for all versions.
I think both have their share of responsibility, and should reach some kind of agreement, but since discussions are top secret, we won't probably know the real position of each actor.

I think ps4 version could receive updates while being locked from crossplay. MS just won't do it because they want Sony to accept crossplay. Both could put consumers first, but both prioritize other things.



That is your opinion. BUt nobody has the truth and a crystal ball. If it was that easy why would sony block crossplay, just because they are evil or something like that?

Yeah not sure why people are giving this a pass. I don't play that game but if another game wentry to cross play and ps4 no longer got the same content updates I would be pissed at devs and publishers and not Sony as much bc I play mostly with ps4 userbase .

Also does the live account login for minecraft cross play mean players will start receiving emails from MS about there platform,deals, and services? If so I could completely understand sony not being OK with that.

 

[m00h]

Is this is a joke post?
Why not start making first party games multiplats as well?
Why the captive audience. Surely it helps gamers and they sell more copies so why won't they do it?

Why the **** iOS won't run on my Samsung Galaxy device? I'm so upset and angry. That would benefit us all, why the hell that greedy Apple won't just make it happen? This is so anti-consumer. You can run Android on every device out there, why not iOS? This is so arrogant of Apple.

 

[CookTrain]

The whole point of a console is that the audience is held captive.

Now just imagine that weren't the case. That's kinda the whole point pro-crossplayers are making here. Even a small step in that direction is revolutionary for our factioned stubbornness.

Why the **** iOS won't run on my Samsung Galaxy device? I'm so upset and angry. That would benefit us all, why the hell that greedy Apple won't just make it happen? This is so anti-consumer. You can run Android on every device out there, why not iOS? This is so arrogant of Apple.

Good example. Imagine if Google were allowed on the App Store, imagine if these hardware vendors could get past their hangups and ...

... oh wait...

Damn, they already did it. And the sky didn't even fall

 

[CookTrain]

EDIT: Double post

 

[Oersted]

Ah all these Android and Apple versions of AAA console games.

You are blissfully and purposefully unaware that Sony also blocks Indies.

 

[m00h]

Now just imagine that weren't the case. That's kinda the whole point pro-crossplayers are making here. Even a small step in that direction is revolutionary for our factioned stubbornness.

Because as soon as any other company takes the lead of the installed base, they will do the same. They will isolate their ecosystem and keep the others away from it. We've seen it several times, and we'll also see it another unlimited amount of times in the future. The only possible way to really secure this cross-platform thing, is to make it a political matter and create a regulation for this sort of things.

 

[Trup1aya]

Why the **** iOS won't run on my Samsung Galaxy device? I'm so upset and angry. That would benefit us all, why the hell that greedy Apple won't just make it happen? This is so anti-consumer. You can run Android on every device out there, why not iOS? This is so arrogant of Apple.

We aren't talking about running OS's on different hardware. We are talking about software and crossplay.

You can download google software on iOS. You can download apple software on android. And of course, you can crossplay between games on either platform without issue.

Terrible analogy that actually harms your argument.

 

[CookTrain]

Because as soon as any other company takes the lead of the installed base, they will do the same. They will isolate their ecosystem and keep the others away from it. We've seen it several times, and we'll also see it another unlimited amount of times in the future. The only possible way to really secure this cross-platform thing, is to make it a political matter and create a regulation for this sort of things.

While I think long term stability for it would be great, that's not really on the table at the moment. You have to start somewhere and right now that somewhere is 3 of the 4 major gaming platforms (hell 5 of the 6 if you include iOS and Android) are now playing along with each other at least in some devilish entente. As someone in favour of that kinda future, I can do little else than support it with all my meagre influence.

 

[dugdug]

Now just imagine that weren't the case. That's kinda the whole point pro-crossplayers are making here. Even a small step in that direction is revolutionary for our factioned stubbornness.



Good example. Imagine if Google were allowed on the App Store, imagine if these hardware vendors could get past their hangups and ...

... oh wait...

Damn, they already did it. And the sky didn't even fall

Sony isn't Google. They can't afford to make every single good gesture out there. They make the gestures that make them money. Yes, the sky didn't fall with Apple allowing Google products, but it didn't really raise, either. If anything, allowing Google products on iPhone has led me to use stuff like Google Assistant, GMAIL, Drive and others instead of Apple's offerings on my iPhone.

 

[KageMaru]

Upscaling is a hardcoded technique and it barely if at all affect picture quality these days . It will work with every ps4 game even if it 240p.
All those games you listed run at far far higher resolution than their xb1 counterparts, they dont have cbr because its not very easy to implement. Anything using less than 2160p resolution, be it locked or dynamic will use upscaling. And it will be the same for xb1x.
So to imply xb1s is comparable to the pro for that is either idiotic or intentionally misleading.

If a game runs at 2160c, like Horizon Zero Dawn, upscaling isn't needed to be displayed on a TV. However games like Uncharted 4 or Mass Effect Andromeda need to upscale to reach a 4K resolution. Also upscaling will not give you as crisp of an image as 2160p or 2160c. I never said the Pro resolutions weren't higher than what we see on the XBO, I was comparing what we've seen so far on the X and on the Pro so far.

 

[m00h]

Good example. Imagine if Google were allowed on the App Store, imagine if these hardware vendors could get past their hangups and ...

... oh wait...

Damn, they already did it. And the sky didn't even fall

You do understand, that it wasn't out of their good will, right? If they could, and it would benefit them, they would without turning a hair.

 

[Trup1aya]

You do understand, that it wasn't out of their good will, right? If they could, and it would benefit them, they would without turning a hair.

Why do you care if it was good will or not?

The question is if it's good for consumers or not.

 

[Nightbird]

All this business talk is giving me flashbacks to the Wii-Era Nintendo fanbase.

 

[CookTrain]

You do understand, that it wasn't out of their good will, right? If they could, and it would benefit them, they would without turning a hair.

Well there's a shift in the scene happening by the looks of it. Maybe Sony are about the encounter the same dilemma. We live in hope. As Trup1aya says, it's in our interests for it to it happen, and that's more than good enough for me.

 

[tzare]

as I consumer, why should I care which company benefits?

Sony should care about what benefits their customers And then benefit from their customers being satisfied.

The deal with the 4K patch is that developing this content across multiple platforms inevitably takes a bunch of work- and PS4 specific work doesn't make sense logistically if Sony isn't participating in the larger ecosystem.

as a consumer, it is the developer the one that is blocking the content for ps4 , not sony. Sony is blocking crossplay, not the content.
SO you are fine with MS blocking content because it doesn't make sense for them logistically(before you said that we should consider this as consumers, but does not seem like that when talking about MS) but find it a bad move on Sony's part because despite it may it also doesn't make sense for them (whatever reasons they have), now you are again a consumer. Is this how things work?

 

[NervousXtian]

When the fuck has Sony ever really been about giving to the consumer?

People need to stop brand loyalty and treating companies like they are their friends.

 

[binarymelon]

We really need to stop the focus on the who or the why, the what is the important factor for everyone as gamers.

 

[m00h]

When the fuck has Sony ever really been about giving to the consumer?

People need to stop brand loyalty and treating companies like they are their friends.

As Microsoft was about to enslave everyone to their always online DRM, Sony was there to save us all, amirite?

 

[AmFreak]

You are blissfully and purposefully unaware that Sony also blocks Indies.

No, i'm not.
I mentioned AAA because that has the biggest impact.
How could they allow one, but not the other?
How would they try to defend it?
Who would even decide what is indie and what not?
And why would they even allow indie?

They currently have a competitive advantage by having most of the market and thus most of the players. That creates a (big) reason to buy a ps4 instead of a One, because "all my friend's have a ps4 and i want to play with them" and one can expect to still find players on the ps4 when the One version already died out.

People are basically asking them to throw away a competitive advantage (and i'm not against this btw).
It's no coincidence that last gen the roles were reversed.

 

[Izuna]

Will you stop buying games? ;-)

Already did tbf

Got Nioh, USFIV (which I played for a day because...) and Titanfall 2 which I played a little bit to play with PS4GAF and to test out the Pro I had -- even got a CronusMax etc. It doesn't affect my buying exclusives if I wanted them. I'd probably not play MHW at all if it's dead on PC/XboxOne.

If I want to play Destiny 2, I would have to pick which system based on which friends I have on each console. And frankly, it fucking sucks.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

"If you need a good example, lets take Destiny. If cross play was enabled, I would absolutely be getting that on the X (or PC). I prefer the controls and it would probably be more stable. All my Destiny friends are on PS4 and there is no cross play. So you know I only have one choice."

And here lies one of the issues. Sony (or anyone else) most likely don't want to lose users to crossplatform play, since they know they got the bigger install base and a bigger online presence.