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[Trup1aya]

So if ms wants to have cross play with Sony on monster hunter when the sales split will no doubt be 85/15. You think Sony's the bad guy because they don't want to give ms a big community? Ms is now all about play anywhere etc basically lost their identity because all you have to do is get a pc. That's not Sony's strategy these guys are about having and protecting their identity and it has been working having won 3 out of the last 4 generations. It's like some people want all consoles to have no exclusives and everybody can play whatever against whoever on any console lol

Part of Sony's identity has been to support crossplay. They even claimed for years to be open to crossplay with Xbox... until Xbox agreed.

MHW will be on Xbox, PlayStation, and PC. If it has crossplay, Xbox's population would be just fine w/o playstation's participation.

 

[CookTrain]

Bumping the update because people keep ignoring it and it shows OP is right.

And Microsoft were wrong then as well. It completely vindicates OP for sure, but it also means if we're making any progress on the subject, pushing for it is a good thing.

 

[Izuna]

Bumping the update because people keep ignoring it and it shows OP is right.

Question...

Were they market leaders in 2011?

Because I'm sure they wouldn't have been by then...

 

[BassForever]

The argument for sony keeping a closed wall is nonsensical and makes no sense. Odds are people will just convert over to one of the many different systems that support cross play/buy versus one that doesn't.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

...Does it even matter? Really, who cares who is pushing for it when it's a net positive for everyone involved?

basically why is we as consumers condoning and excusing anti consumer policies? who cares what was done in the past we have 2 console makers who want it to happen sony doesn't. its simple as that

 

[Alucardx23]

...Does it even matter? Really, who cares who is pushing for it when it's a net positive for everyone involved?

Thank you. It's incredible the amount of mental gymnastics some do to defend something that actually hurts them. There is a difference between understanding why Sony might not want to allow crossplay and another is defending it. It's like saying "No I don't want more options to play with my friends thanks". ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[MightyHedgehog]

There might be good reason to believe that crossplay is affected by the politics stemming from the relative success of one walled garden versus another, but why does it matter who is pushing it when it's a way to improve the quality and longevity of matchmaking in a world where online modes can dry up in weeks to months? All of the major platforms have evolved to the point where technical barriers and worries over security should be easily addressed and a non-issue.

 

[Spades]

The reality is that business is an exchange - you want Sony to give up a key benefit of their market dominance, what are they getting in exchange?

The best version of the game in question for their consumers? Or is that not enough?

I guess the fanboys will give them a pass for preventing them from playing the definitive version of the game like everyone else.

 

[Xpliskin]

I agree

 

[Datschge]

Dragon Quest 10 on PS4 and Switch?

This is mentioned not often enough, but for another reason: If you got a DQX sub for any other system (Wii, Wii U, PC, Switch. 3DS and mobile are different as they are streamed) you can't use it for the PS4 game. Because Sony apparently wants you to pay for the sub through PSN.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's just simply that they are focusing on less stuff. No more TV boxes, no more Kinect... They spread themselves thin by the start of this gen but their philosophy didn't change... The perception of them did. If MS had gotten the sales Sony ended up getting, we would have had a severe lack of third-party titles appearing and would have continued getting games like D4 or Crimson Dragon funded.

Now they are dropping all the extra stuff. Perception is returning because of it, and they hope this will translate to sales.

I think we're also feeling the effects of Satya Nadella's "embrace multiple platforms and open standards" mantra for MS, which goes beyond Xbox. That is the whole groundwork for why Minecraft crossplay on Switch is allowed, which looks great for MS and kinda bad for Sony.

 

[BigEmil]

Ah I forgot about the Defiance one!

 

[Izuna]

I think we're also feeling the effects of Satya Nadella's "embrace multiple platforms and open standards" mantra for MS, which goes beyond Xbox. That is the whole groundwork for why Minecraft crossplay on Switch is allowed, which looks great for MS and kinda bad for Sony.

*throws Windows Phone towards the wall*

I miss Ballmer's optimism.

 

[Jacqli]

I like how the excuses for not crossplay are different.

 

[ScientificPizza]

So securing entire games for a period is good but timed dlc is evil?
Promoting xbox by being deliberately misleading and targeting the competition with false spins. I understand why he's doing it. But it still means he's doing and its not a good thing for the consumers.
Your source
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-05-phil-spencer-plays-down-xbox-one-and-a-half-rumours
And everything is hyperbolic on gaf, including the outrage over cross play
Does he deserve hate as person? No.
He's doing his job. But the way he does it often involves misleading people and thats where stems from

No? But that has nothing to do with what he said. What he said does not contradict what they're doing. To say otherwise is to misrepresent what he said
What is misleading? What is false spin? The pro vs x stuff? That's hyperbole, but it's not misleading.

All of your points are also entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand

 

[FLAguy954]

What did Coalition do? Though if it's integrate Xbox Live or something, I bet it's because Windows 10 is basically Xbox Live. I only tried Killer Instinct on Windows store though, but I remember seeing the UI when Phil presented Xbox Windows 10. The whole Play Anywhere thing.

Sony have always seemed very open to cross play with PC. They let Epic patch Paragon weekly without a problem, keeping up with the PC version.

The Coalition initially had co-op modes with cross play enabled. They then did a few weeks of testing to see what kind of advantage m+kb players would have in competitive modes and determined that the advantage was negligible, leading to full cross play across all modes (with the option for XB1 owners to opt out and play controller vs controller).

This is the best approach in my opinion.

 

[NahaNago]

Its not really defending its just understanding why Sony won't agree to crossplay. Their business right now would see no benefit and would only help the competition. Does it suck? Yes. Do i see it changing in the near future? Possibly? I still don't really see it changing if everybody is still buying third party online multiplayer games on the PS4. I just don't see how we could convince Sony to give Microsoft access to 2/3 of the console player base.

 

[Nanashrew]

Something I brought up in the other thread is that if more and more games are becoming a service, cross platform play will become more and more relevant. Sony not budging would be bad for them like we already see of Minecraft, the biggest one in the world. It will likely become important to fighting games, and just about all kinds of games that center around esports.

Even Harada is"championing the cause" in trying to make crossplay between XB1 and PS4 a thing https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4xbox-one-cross-play-should-happen-tekken-boss-s/1100-6449618/

 

[MetalliCabombination]

No? But that has nothing to do with what he said. What he said does not contradict what they're doing. To say otherwise is to misrepresent what he said
What is misleading? What is false spin? The pro vs x stuff? That's hyperbole, but it's not misleading.

He literally said the pro isnt x's competition because it uses certain techniques to get 4k whereas Xbox 1 does true 4k.
What is included in true 4k? The exact same thing sony isnt in competition for.

Hyperbole is him comparing pro to 1s.

The above is lying at worst and misleading at best

 

[Sony]

Microsoft as a whole was more closed off during the early to mid 360 era. They've evolved a lot since the Ballmer era into a more open, inclusive Microsoft that offers their services on competing platforms.
Crossplay is very much in line with their current policy and thinking.

 

[tzare]

It would be better if you share why this would hurt all companies if it happens. Let's say that tomorrow Sony jumps in and says that they will also allow all developers to do crossplay if the want. How do you think things will look one or two years after that? I actually think that it is not only beneficial to the gamers to have more options, but it will hurt Sony in the long run if they let the competition unify into basically a single online service. It doesn't look good for Sony when Android, iOS, Steam, Nintendo Online and Xbox Live can all have a single player pool where all gamers can play together and they remain out of that. People seem to forget that Sony has the position they have right now because they gave gamers what they wanted. You could argue that following Microsoft plan of not letting resell the games was the better business decision.

I guess nobody can predict the future, so i guess each actor has to consider very carefully the next step. Maybe allowing crossplay can be a benefit in the short term, but a problem in the long term. Or the other way around.
Also comparing gaming specific platforms vs 'multipurpose purpose' ones like Android, iOS or Windows isn't fair, despite they share some points obviously.

Again, Sony are the ones that have to decide if this is a thing most gamers want, or only a small fraction, or maybe a large number,but most are on competing platforms, so it is a no issue in their real world (at least for now).

I want crossplay, i play KOFIV on ps4 and it is difficult to find games and crossplay with PC won't be available afaik, don't know the reason why, btw, so i am for it, but i also understand that they allowed it somehow with PC and WiiU(if not mistaken ) in the past, but now for some reasons aren't allowing when MS is involved, so i am sure this is under discussion at sony, and also at MS nintendo and other developers and publishers.

My opinion is that this needs an agreement , so we can guarantee a solid future, and not a changing one depending on the managers of the leading platform of a specific moment.

 

[Hellshy.]

The only thing that sucks about this cross play business is that ps4 owners of minecraft won't be getting the new endless world's and graphics updates. My son has mad all his minecraft friends on ps4 and would probably like cross play bu would enjoy the updates even more.

 

[ScientificPizza]

He literally said the pro isnt x's competition because it uses certain techniques to get 4k whereas Xbox 1 does true 4k.
What is included in true 4k? The exact same thing sony isnt in competition for.

Hyperbole is him comparing pro to 1s.

The above is lying at worst and misleading at best

That's not lying? The PS4 Pro does use techniques to push to 4K. That's factual. Where is the lie?

 

[Trup1aya]

You have to think about Sony, otherwise you aren't dealing in reality.

Businesses aren't run successfully by shooting yourself in the foot because your competition asks you to. Sony have built a player base that is a selling point of the system - throwing that away doesn't make any sense as a business move.

If you want Sony to implement crossplay you can't just want it really badly. You have to make it make business sense to them, i.e. supporting Microsoft to such an extent that the PR advantage of crossplay outweighs the sacrifice of the player base advantage Sony has.

I don't like Sony's decision but it's an understandable one.

Except Sony wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot.

Not doing this is shooting themselves In the foot as they are actively ensuring that other networks have larger player bases and superior versions of games.

 

[Chuck Norris]

The new Minecraft will require xbl accounts for Nintendo Switch players apparently. Serious.

Like $50 a year extra? Or is it a free account?

 

[Nanashrew]

Like $50 a year extra? Or is it a free account?

Free account.

 

[Shil Pencer]

You are also forgetting this was the don mattrick era as well. The fact we are talking about Minecraft, which is more phenomenon than a game, it's inexcusable.

 

[jbluzb]

Sony does crossplay with pc,ps3 just no xbox.

Maybe if xbox will open call of duty or bf1 for crossplay it will be an issue with the mass market.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Except Sony wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot.

Not doing this is shooting themselves In the foot as they are actively ensuring that other networks have larger player bases and superior versions of games.

I don't think 30 million + 4 million is bigger than 60 million

 

[Phamit]

Like $50 a year extra? Or is it a free account?

Free

 

[Chuck Norris]

Free account.

I'd be hesitant as well. With a backdoor like that who knows if they could collect data on other stuff

 

[tzare]

The only thing that sucks about this cross play business is that ps4 owners of minecraft won't be getting the new endless world's and graphics updates. My son has mad all his minecraft friends on ps4 and would probably like cross play bu would enjoy the updates even more.

and yet some people that consider sony is doing wrong regarding crossplay, think MS are right on this, 'because' it makes sense for them to have unified servers for all versions.
I think both have their share of responsibility, and should reach some kind of agreement, but since discussions are top secret, we won't probably know the real position of each actor.

I think ps4 version could receive updates while being locked from crossplay. MS just won't do it because they want Sony to accept crossplay. Both could put consumers first, but both prioritize other things.

Except Sony wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot.

Not doing this is shooting themselves In the foot as they are actively ensuring that other networks have larger player bases and superior versions of games.

That is your opinion. BUt nobody has the truth and a crystal ball. If it was that easy why would sony block crossplay, just because they are evil or something like that?

 

[Trup1aya]

He literally said the pro isnt x's competition because it uses certain techniques to get 4k whereas Xbox 1 does true 4k.
What is included in true 4k? The exact same thing sony isnt in competition for.

Hyperbole is him comparing pro to 1s.

The above is lying at worst and misleading at best

His message is that the Xbox 1X is designed so that current gen games can push native 4K (true 4K) at framerate, without changing settings. The PS4 is not.

If developers choose to use different techniques to reach 4K, that's up to them. There's nothing misleading about that.

 

[Trup1aya]

and yet some people that consider sony is doing wrong regarding crossplay, think MS are right on this, 'because' it makes sense for them to have unified servers for all versions.
I think both have their share of responsibility, and should reach some kind of agreement, but since discussions are top secret, we won't probably know the real position of each actor.

I think ps4 version could receive updates while being locked from crossplay. MS just won't do it because they want Sony to accept crossplay. Both could put consumers first, but both prioritize other things.

Why should MS make one special version of the game for Sony platforms... that's is costly completely defeats the purpose of having a unified platform...

 

[a.wd]

It doesn't make sense for Sony to do. "I want to play with my friends, and most of my friends have a PS4, so I'll get this game on that" works more often in their favor, due to their large market share.

Conceding that advantage is illogical.

I am a consumer, I have precisely 0 shits to give about how my wants affect a corporation.

they don't care about you. The best you can hope for is that some of the shit that they want you to buy matches up with the life that you want to have.

So yes, they should have to do something that benefits their customers over them, which will mean they get more consumer confidence (check it out, its a thing).

 

[AzerPhire]

Bumping the update because people keep ignoring it and it shows OP is right.

You have to remember though back then Sony's online service was pretty poor in comparison to Xbox Live. It was actually in 2011 that PSN was hacked and brought down for almost a month so I could see why MS at the time would not want to open their network up to PSN.

Now though things are different and Sony is in a much better place infrastructure wise than they were back then.

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't think 30 million + 4 million is bigger than 60 million

Well if they're talking about Minecraft, the mobile userbase is gigantic and already has more players than PS4 Minecraft.

Switch and XB1 would be joining PC and mobile and the pool of players will be massive.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

I'd be hesitant as well. With a backdoor like that who knows if they could collect data on other stuff

If you're going to do crossplay, abandon a mandatory xbl account setup.
In real life practice, who's gonna do that? Outside US and UK, i don't think it will be that common. 2c.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The Coalition initially had co-op modes with cross play enabled. They then did a few weeks of testing to see what kind of advantage m+kb players would have in competitive modes and determined that the advantage was negligible, leading to full cross play across all modes (with the option for XB1 owners to opt out and play controller vs controller).

This is the best approach in my opinion.

Yeah, that sounds good. Good method of making things pretty fair for controller players.

 

[Trup1aya]

I don't think 30 million + 4 million is bigger than 60 million

Because all 60million playstation users have PSN and play every game?

Terrible logic.

You think Minecrafts pc+Mobile+Xbox+switch population won't absolutely DWARF minecraft PS4s population?

You think Rocket league's PC+Switch+Xbox population can't overtake PS4 especially if it ends up on gwg or something similar and switch continues to be extremely popular.

You think every new game released with similar support won't dwarf PlayStation population on those new games due to crossplay.

PS4 has a massive overall population. But game for game, the case changes, especially when PSN is the odd man out in crossplay.

 

[Izuna]

If you're going to do crossplay, abandon a mandatory xbl account setup.
In real life practice, who's gonna do that? Outside US and UK, i don't think it will be that common. 2c.

That is a painfully ignorant thing to say.

Have you ever heard of Windows?

 

[MetalliCabombination]

That's not lying? The PS4 Pro does use techniques to push to 4K. That's factual. Where is the lie?

Did you read the full thing or is this just how you plan to form your arguments?
The lie is in the fact that he claims xbox exists in a different stratosphere because it doesnt when infact it does.
Xb1x uses the exact same technique except it doesnt have 4k ingrained on its microprocessor.
Phil says it doesn't.
Are you really not seeing it?

 

[KageMaru]

I'll never understand defending this. Highlighting the past should only show how this is a silly move. It's stupid when MS blocked it in the past just like it's stupid that Sony is blocking it now. Anti-consumer practices should never be supported.

Sony does crossplay with pc,ps3 just no xbox.

Maybe if xbox will open call of duty or bf1 for crossplay it will be an issue with the mass market.

Minecraft is more mass market than CoD or BF. We already see developer interest with Mojang, Psyonix, and Namco. If it's proven to be a popular feature, who knows what future games will support it.

 

[gamz]

I'd be hesitant as well. With a backdoor like that who knows if they could collect data on other stuff

You are on Sony network and worried about XBL. Of course they'll collect data. Sony collects data and stats now. You have to better suite the needs of your users. When Sony and MS post stats you think they are just guessing?

 

[HighResTomato]

Well the thing is monster hunter world is suppose for the western market no? And Sony gamers are not only Japanese or am I missing something clever you are trying to say?

Good thing other than Nintendo/Sony nobody gives a fuck about Japan.

 

[tzare]

Why should MS make one special version of the game for Sony platforms... that's is costly completely defeats the purpose of having a unified platform...

why not? wouldn't it be viable? I mean there are tons of games that are not crossplay, inf fact 99% of them, that receive all kind of updates without problems, even from small devs, so i am sure the money maker that is minecraft could afford it.

It is easy. MS wants unified platform despite knowing is dealing with different online services, and can do what they see fit, but it is a business and strategic decision and use their strong position owning an important IP and putting sony in a difficult stance.

Why should sony allow it, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a proprietary online service?

 

[Nanashrew]

If you're going to do crossplay, abandon a mandatory xbl account setup.
In real life practice, who's gonna do that? Outside US and UK, i don't think it will be that common. 2c.

You're using it to sign into Microsoft's new dedicated servers for Minecraft. You can also use your XBL account to login on any device you own to play your saved character and world.

You can play anywhere, on any device. You just gotta log in.

EDIT: Oh, and crossbuy. DLC also travels with you regardless of what device you play on.

 

[Salty Rice]

"Hey Sony, your customers are upset, meaning you might lose revenue, market share and brand recognition"

Not really.

 

[Izuna]

Not really.

I have a PS4 and I'm upset.

Or do I have to also have to NOT have an Xbox?

 

[Alienous]

The best version of the game in question for their consumers? Or is that not enough?

I guess the fanboys will give them a pass for preventing them from playing the definitive version of the game like everyone else.

That isn't a benefit to them if Xbox and Nintendo can claim the same. All they're doing is losing the advantage of the playerbase they've cultivated, making it a net loss.

In any case there's no need to reply to this - I won't read it. 'Fanboys' is enough to know that discussing this with you is worthless. I own all of the modern consoles but I'm a fanboy because I'm trying to discuss this issue from a business perspective. Okay, let's try it your way. "Crossplay would be really cool".

...

Well damn, I don't see a Sony crossplay announcement.

But seriously though, take that 'fanboy' shit elsewhere.