Well to be perfectly honest, virtually no giant AAA games are going to be made without console releases, so you wouldn't see a difference in game design on PC vs consoles.
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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and its really holding developers back"
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ScientificPizza
Banned
But it also means that I can get a few more years out of my 970 so 
Aztechnology
Member
JordanN
Banned
Then you need to buy 10 copies of the Xbox One X.
Because if it doesn't fly off the shelves, they (Sony/MS) are not going to care.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
My takeaway is that this is coming from a developer that has yet to push the envelope of a five year old PC. Maybe for their sake it's a good thing we're not bleeding edge.
Aztechnology
Member
PC is essentially the same thing. The more interest in PC, and the more users, the more they will care too.
Because some level of parity is a good thing, and necessary. Consoles aren't going anywhere obviously, but given the shriking costs and rising capability of even lower end gaming machines now it's important they try to keep up to some degree. Like has been said in here numerous times, the CPU is really holding these new machines back, so the choice to keep the jaguar CPU's seems baffling, considering the alternatives. Do they have a valid reason to hold the CPU back? Would consumers be ok shouldering a small increase in cost for the higher end machines like Pro and XboneX? We can't know because it was never presented as a choice for consumers. On PC they can make that decision, on console it's made of us. Like with the PS4 UHD HDR Blu-ray example I gave earlier. It was a decision arbitrarily made for us. I would have been happy to pay an extra $8-10 or even $20 for it.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Why hating on PS4? All consoles are on the same page. All consoles are outdated and holding developers back.
In fact in many areas it's the opposite.
Enlighten me. Because literally every studio is taking forever this generation to release anything.
"physics", sure. Explain why physics in Halo 1 on original Xbox is more impressive than on Destiny 2 on XBOX X/PC/PS4 Pro.
Same for AI. Just take a look at F.E.A.R., for example.
I think modern hardware already good for complex innovative games. Most devs just don't care.
edit: "the amount of characters on screen" also
did you miss Kessen or any Dynasty Warriors game?
Krisprolls
Banned
Yeah, it's like a PC, except it works without losing hours updating drivers and settings, it has AAA exclusives and it doesn't cost $1000 or more.
That's why people play on that I guess. So many reasons.
That's why people play on that I guess. So many reasons.
using a gaming pc really does not require much work especially with modern games. As long as you use your brain and t can google work arounds you can experience anything without issues.As for initial investment, it is higher butt you do not use the pc just to play, and you can compensate with good deals.
icecold1983
Member
If consoles Are holding pc back, where are the pc exclusives showing us what can be done?
Dictator93
Member
You may or may not be ignoring entire genres of games :X
Larger release RTS specifically in its current form on PC could not be possible on consoles given their heavy CPU performance requirements: Total War, Dawn of War, COH2, Ashes... etc.
Lot's of AI, lots of objects, lot's of animations.
That's because of ballooning budgets and scope creep. Bloody everything has to be open-world in this day and age, which automatically results in much longer dev times as the sheer amount of content is far larger than older mid-budget games.
That plus the incessant desire for more and more detailed game worlds, including more incidental objects to populate those worlds with (just compare, for example, a modern Assassin's Creed game to the first Assassin's Creed), are huge contributors to the massive dev times involved in modern video games. The fact that technology is allowing this to happen is orthogonal to the developers' ambitions to realize these facets.
If we had enough technological power to realize full real-time path tracing the dev times would be almost entirely unchanged, but they would look much, much better graphically. Obviously, we don't have that power right now, but don't expect dev times to get any longer than they already have - unless a dev is shooting for something really ambitious.
Aztechnology
Member
Please... Can we retire this argument. It's a really annoying misconception. Pretty much none of those things are true, and haven't been for years.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
As someone who does 90% my gaming on a 5 year old PC should I be thanking the PS4?
NullPointer
Member
It was true enough for me five years ago, which is why I switched to console only.
potatohead
Member
Cry more?
This is what the market is. Don't like it? Too bad.
Publishers have to go where the money is to make games be happy you get the games you do today on any platform.
Shit could've gone much worse in many other ways. There will be games to show the potential of Pc even if fewer between and there will be others to demonstrate for consoles.
Stop all your God damn fanboy wars and get along you little bitches lol.
This is what the market is. Don't like it? Too bad.
Publishers have to go where the money is to make games be happy you get the games you do today on any platform.
Shit could've gone much worse in many other ways. There will be games to show the potential of Pc even if fewer between and there will be others to demonstrate for consoles.
Stop all your God damn fanboy wars and get along you little bitches lol.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
You know what? Maybe you should. That's an interesting perspective and I think it's as valid as seeing it the other way around, moreso since most of the people gaming on PC today are using shit that's around that ballpark, or lower.
I mean, shit, PS4 and Xbox One being the baseline means you can play games like MGSV on PC without breaking the bank.
Hip Hop
Member
This is some PS4 fanboy drivel.
Permanently A
Junior Member
I mean, nothing he says is wrong.
Chuck Norris
Banned
But how can I trust the word of a man who isn't sure how to pronounce his own name?
Can every developer right now put out a Horzion/UC4/Order level game without trouble on a reasonable budget/time scale ?
Definitely not.Therefore no one's limited by tech.
Kssio_Aug
Member
No AAA games? Hours updating drivers? You would be surprised if you really believe that shit.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
And yet it's a one sided conversation without acknowledging that the entire industry will always be behind than what the technology can really offer because folks cannot afford to own $1000+ consoles refreshing every year.
Yep. Ashes of the Singularity in particular is 100% impossible to get to run smoothly on an underpowered Jaguar processor.
Of course, since it's not a graphically impressive AAA first-or-third-person game most folks on Gaf are going to discount it, but eh. Them's the breaks.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Star Citizen exists you know. Over $150 million later it's impressive but it's still not done yet and I still don't feel like it's that far ahead of the experience I get from my PS4 Pro. It's still very glitchy in the PTU and netcode is still trash despite the other impressive things going on in the game.
Developers kind of rely on the revenue they receive from consoles. And consoles provide the revenue because of their install base which can take years to grow. The volume and the scope of video games we see today wouldn't be sustainable if they were just releasing on PC. It would be a lot more niche.
Risk Breaker
Member
Well, it IS 3 and a half years old.
This kind of comments happen EVERY TIME when we're halfway through a console gen, lol. Yes, PS4 (and especially XB1) doesn't have the raw power of the average GAMER PC, but it's still capable of incredible looking games like Horizon, GT Sport, God of War, Detroit, Uncharted 4...
I actually feel like this generation is holding up a lot better than the previous one.
This kind of comments happen EVERY TIME when we're halfway through a console gen, lol. Yes, PS4 (and especially XB1) doesn't have the raw power of the average GAMER PC, but it's still capable of incredible looking games like Horizon, GT Sport, God of War, Detroit, Uncharted 4...
I actually feel like this generation is holding up a lot better than the previous one.
MisterXDTV
Member
Exactly, just make PC exclusives if you hate consoles so much
I'm curious, if PS4 is 5 years old PC, what about Xbone???
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Ok never mind then lol. I thought you were speaking literallyOk, so one game. I didn't mean literally none
Risk Breaker
Member
When you work on PC exclusive games you still have to account for the huge part of your audience using i3s, AM3 CPUs and/or 750 Ti-level GPUs. It's not like you can magically sell only to 1080 Ti owners.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
phantasmic_glaive
Member
So let me get this straight... a 4 year old gaming system is like a 5 year old PC?
Youdon'tsay.gif
Youdon'tsay.gif
I know. The whole thing is ultimately an economic argument. How many copies you are hoping to sell is going to greatly determine what hardware footprints you are targeting.
Funny, because I felt the PS4 was underpowered from the start.
I mean, the fact that its CPU is blatantly inferior to my i5 2500k which is running on close to seven years old at this point was never a great selling point.
That being said, the games are certainly holding up better this time around, it's true. And I'd chalk that up to a superior knowledge base when it comes to graphics technology, especially thanks to the advent of PBR.
That doesn't mean the console ain't underpowered, though. (And he's talking about all consoles, BTW, not just the PS4 specifically.)
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
you spend more time on long loading screens that i spend updating video driver (that is automatic) and tweaking settings
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Huge Succeeded
Banned
"physics", sure. Explain why physics in Halo 1 on original Xbox is more impressive than on Destiny 2 on XBOX X/PC/PS4 Pro.
Same for AI. Just take a look at F.E.A.R., for example.
I think modern hardware already good for complex innovative games. Most devs just don't care.
edit: "the amount of characters on screen" also
did you miss Kessen or any Dynasty Warriors game?
This entire post misses the point, and those examples are all extremely shoddy.
Physics in Halo 1 aren't especially impressive today (nor are Halo 1's level of physics suitable for every game design concept) and that they're more impressive than Destiny 2's on the surface means little.
FEAR's AI is surprisingly simple; it seems advanced because it's well designed and because it's so intertwined with the level design. FEAR's AI isn't readily applicable to games that move beyond the hallway/office approach to FPS level design.
Kessen has tons of characters on screen. Characters with practically non-existant AI. Same goes for Dynasty Warriors, which still has to cull characters at a certain distance. Want tons of characters on-screen with a weak CPU? Your game better be designed with concessions like dumb-as-rock AI, then.
Aztechnology
Member
On it definitely is. I'm more dissapointed just at the restrictions on the Pro and Xbox One X. That iteration has been largely diminished by decisions that held them back quite a bit. Overall though the generation has been putting forward some great looking games, in large part thanks to technologies developed and that benefit the entire industry. Like dynamic resolutions, checkerboard rendering and some material based rendering and stuff. As always we move forward. It would just be nice to let the newer iterations stretch their legs a little more instead of the leash pulling caused by the Jaguar CPU's.
icecold1983
Member
Dont those games run on pcs weaker than the consoles? Also total war and coh/dow arent very optimized titles and probably have lots of room for improvement, especially with the lack of overhead on console
Also five years. It just got a CPU overclock and a higher-grade GPU.
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