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[Trup1aya]

Sorry dude, but there are links ITT showing the reaction to his apology. The reactions are real.



I disagree. People have come back from worse.

It doesn't matter if this is the way its done because of least potential blowback. With honest intention and a lot of hard work, I'm pretty sure he could have carved himself a spot again even if it was via crowd funding or something.

Those links wouldn't exist had he not sexually harassed anyone.

You are presenting these fairy tale theories when people who get paid a lot of money to research and practice these exact scenarios and have mountains of precedence to suggest otherwise.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Please drop the mansplainy tone. I understand this is the done thing to mitigate damage, but I also strongly believe if he'd owned it and been genuine he could have, after a lot of hard work, carved himself a spot out in the industry again.

I disagree with you. Maybe we should leave it here.

Again:

1. It's like day 1 of the apology, you don't know how this is going to shake out lol
2. It's not mansplaining to tell you that a lawyer was consulted before that was released lol
3. Saying lotsa hard work could fix this is just you spouting shit. We don't know what is going to happen.
4. If you know why he's doing this your suggestion is to ignore the lawyers? 😒

 

[Zakalwe]

Those links wouldn't exist had he not sexually harassed anyone.

Obviously not. lol.

What?

You are presenting these fairy tale theories when people who get paid a lot of money to research and practice these exact scenarios and have mountains of precedence to suggest otherwise.

Are you saying you think no-one's owned this level of wrong-doing before and bounced back from it?

Again:

1. It's like day 1 of the apology, you don't know how this is going to shake out lol
2. It's not mansplaining to tell you that a lawyer was consulted before that was released lol
3. Saying lotsa hard work could fix this is just you spouting shit. We don't know what is going to happen.
4. If you know why he's doing this your suggestion is to ignore the lawyers? ��

I disagree with all of this.

 

[sflufan]

Does your employer know everything you're up to on your social media accounts?

Actually, yeah - kinda.

We're required to provide them with the links to our social media sites though not the passwords.

 

[Trup1aya]

It's understandable, but it doesn't mean that people, like say us here on GAF, shouldn't point out that his statement is self-serving bullshit. He doesn't get brownie points for a manipulative bullshit non-apology.

He gets to make that decision to dissemble and deflect, and people get to look at his behavior and say that his decision to not own up to what he's done is bad and shameful.

I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Im just saying that someone can be truly remorseful of their actions, but not simultaneously willing to open themselves up to devastating financial hardship.

Would it be nice if he did? Sure? But with so much at stake, not just for him, but those around him and those he supports, the likelihood of ever seeing such admissions would be slim regardless of how strongly he truly feels.

Edit: put it like this. Imagine you did something wrong, you feel remorse, but your lawyer told you that saying sorry would take food off of your child's plate, what would you do?

 

[Zakalwe]

Actually, yeah - kinda.

We're required to provide them with the links to our social media sites though not the passwords.

Oh, you don't have to give them access to your account! Phew, because that would be an invasion of privacy!

 

[Temeculan3000]

Actually, yeah - kinda.

We're required to provide them with the links to our social media sites though not the passwords.

That sounds pretty terrible. What if your account is private and they can't see anything? Make you change the security settings?

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Im just saying that someone can be truly remorseful of their actions, but not simultaneously willing to open themselves up to devastating financial hardship.

Would it be nice if he did? Sure? But with so much at stake, not just for him, but those around him and those he supports, the likelihood of ever seeing such admissions would be slim regardless of how strongly he truly feels.

Remorse without an admittance of guilt is nothing. "I feel deeply sorry for that thing you think I did but I swear I didn't" is THE classic non-apology.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Im just saying that someone can be truly remorseful of their actions, but not simultaneously willing to open themselves up to devastating financial hardship.

Would it be nice if he did? Sure? But with so much at stake, not just for him, but those around him and those he supports, the likelihood of ever seeing such admissions would be slim regardless of how strongly he truly feels.

Ok then, how about this:

"I'm aware of the damage of my actions. My behaviour was disgusting and I'm deeply ashamed and sorry for the harm I caused.

I wasn't thinking. For whatever reason I had justified my behaviour to myself, it's only now that I'm facing it head on that I see it for what it was. I cannot even begin to make up for that in words.

I can assure you, I am reading all your messages and listening to every word being said. I will do my best to make up for this. I don't expect your forgiveness, or your support, but I would hope you give me a chance to make amends and prove my commitment to this. Of course, I don't expect that either and nor should I.

From here I will take my leave from the industry, but not from my responsibility. I'll look into ways I can help work to stamp out this kind of behaviour just as soon as I've re-educated myself and I'm certain I'll never do this again."/

Dude didn't care. There are ways to apologise and not incriminate himself.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Actually, yeah - kinda.

We're required to provide them with the links to our social media sites though not the passwords.

I'm 100% ok with this.

Like it or not, even when off the clock, you're a face of the company you work at/for. I'm a firm believer that a person's personal life and professional life are linked. You can't really have one without the other.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm 100% ok with this.

Like it or not, even when off the clock, you're a face of the company you work at/for. I'm a firm believer that a person's personal life and professional life are linked. You can't really have one without the other.

No way, this kind of surveillance is totally uncalled for and a shaky step toward more nefarious tactics to monitor employees and people in general.

But this is OT, maybe we need a new thread for sflufan's reveal.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Yuck thank goodness i don't have a public facing job; couldn't imagine having to represent the company at all times

 

[The Greek Freak]

Dude, he didn't murder someone. Pretty sure he was never going to get serious punishment from the law here.

If you're going off of what has been publicly shown? You're right. (If that was it this apology would be finish).

However people who rarely spout B.S. have been on Twitter implying there has been stuff that is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse. (aka why this "apology" rings so hollow) So if any of that stuff is actually true he would be smart not to say a god damn word that isn't approved by a lawyer.

 

[Zakalwe]

If you're going off of what has been publicly shown? You're right. (If that was it this apology would be finish).

However people who rarely spout B.S. have been on Twitter implying there has been stuff that is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse. (aka why this "apology" rings so hollow) So if any of that stuff is actually true he would be smart not to say a god damn word that isn't approved by a lawyer.

I wouldn't take hearsay about "much much" worse for anything more than that. Of course, it could be true and a reason for his shitty apology, but it could just be Twitter being the gossip whore that it is.

I mean, personally I believe he did worse which is why he's not owning it, but I'm also aware how far social media runs with stuff without thinking.

 

[The Greek Freak]

I wouldn't take hearsay about "much much" worse for anything more than that. Of course, it could be true and a reason for his shitty apology, but it could just be Twitter being the gossip whore that it is.

I mean, personally I believe he did worse which is why he's not owning it, but I'm also aware how far social media runs with stuff without thinking.

I would normally agree with you (and that's why I won't blatantly speculate/name what I think they may be alluding to) but the people I've read it from have never steered me wrong on hyperbolic social media crap. At this point I'd be shocked if at the very least both the quantity and severity of the messages he's sent isn't much worse than what has publicly been seen.

 

[sflufan]

That sounds pretty terrible. What if your account is private and they can't see anything? Make you change the security settings?

That's a great question - I'll have to check with the firm's compliance team.

 

[Zakalwe]

I would normally agree with you (and that's why I won't blatantly speculate/name what I think they may be alluding to) but the people I've read it from have never steered me wrong on hyperbolic social media crap. At this point I'd be shocked if at the very least both the quantity and severity of the messages he's sent isn't much worse than what has publicly been seen.

Oh yeh, I'm totally with you that he almost certainly did do worse, I'm just not going to take third-party info as absolute proof.

It doesn't change my view of him. He clearly has no intention of changing. He got caught, and he regrets that. It's almost certain that unless he tries to change this behaviour will resurface at some point in the future.

Fucker got away with it, even if he did lose his job.

That's a great question - I'll have to check with the firm's compliance team.

Couldn't you just set it to only show to friends and just claim you don't have one? You can prevent people searching for you on FB, at all.

Then just never add anyone from work!

 

[Trup1aya]

Obviously not. lol.

What?

Im not sure what you don't understand. The source of the outrage is the harassment. Backlash to the apology is tangengial to the actual crime.

Are you saying you think no-one's owned this level of wrong-doing before and bounced back from it?

Im saying if someone had to weigh the risks associated with confessing to a crime and the possibility of bouncing back from that crime - against minimizing their civil liabilities the smart money is on the latter. It's not pretty, but that's the way it is.

I disagree with all of this.

That's fine but history speaks for itself.

 

[Exploratory]

I believe this guy is probably an asshole but at the same time I'd like to know exactly what was said privately. I know that might be super embarrassing, possibly traumatizing to those effected though.

 

[Zakalwe]

Im not sure what you don't understand. The source of the outrage is the harassment. Backlash to the apology is tangengial to the actual crime.

That doesn't do anything to refute my point that, had he been genuine, he'd be having an easier ride from people on social media right now.

He made a shit apology, he's not getting even more attention drawn to his actions because people are /even more/ incensed /by/ the shit apology.

Im saying if someone had to weigh the risks associated with confessing to a crime and the possibility of bouncing back from that crime - against minimizing their civil liabilities the smart money is on the latter. It's not pretty, but that's the way it is.

Again, you really think no-one's taken ownership of this level of wrong-doing and bounced back from it?

That's fine but history speaks for itself.

Yeh, it does, and I'm fairly certain I could find plenty of evidence of people doing worse, admitting it, and rebuilding their lives afterwards because they fucking meant it.

 

[jettpack]

Not once does he take responsibility for his actions, but instead takes a long-winded way of apologizing because, despite his feeling that he hadn't done anything wrong, he smartly listened to those saying he did.

"But the more I thought about it, the more I understood where other people were coming from."

It's an excellent PR spin of an apology, and I'm glad Polygon made the right move and fired him (even though he was one of the more enjoyable people on the site prior to his removal).

Yeah, I think this is right. There is a bit of ego and a bit of resistance in that apology that rubs me the wrong way

 

[KingV]

Dude, he didn't murder someone. Pretty sure he was never going to get serious punishment from the law here.

Unless I've missed something or don't understand the laws surrounding sexual harassment? They seem to be pretty fucking lax though, the shit people seem to get away with online all the time...

I'm not a lawyer, so someone may correct me, and be right, but afaik, legally, sexual harassment is almost always, if not always, defined as work-related and that definition resides with the EEOC.

Legally, what he was doing was quite likely not technically "sexual harassment" unless these women were employees of a company he worked with or for.

I'm not sure how it goes down if they are game devs. Theoretically, most game devs probably have no real business relationship with polygon except for maybe buying ad space, which they also might not even buy from them directly.

What he did was scummy, and probably violates company policy, but it also might not be sexual harassment. Edit: in a legal sense.

I'm purposely using a lot of maybes because I'm only like barely sure that this is mostly correct.

 

[CannonFodder52]

I believe this guy is probably an asshole but at the same time I'd like to know exactly what was said privately. I know that might be super embarrassing, possibly traumatizing to those effected though.

Are you serious

 

[Trup1aya]

Remorse without an admittance of guilt is nothing. "I feel deeply sorry for that thing you think I did but I swear I didn't" is THE classic non-apology.

Remorse without (publicly) admitting guilt is remorse, without admitting guilt.

Your analogy is totally inaccurate. It's more "i feel deeply sorry for what i did but ive been advised that saying so publicly is going to cause more hardship than i or those around me can withstand"

Keep in mind, i have no idea if he's truly remorseful. The legal ramifications of these matters all but guaruntee people's true feelings are never verbalized.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm not a lawyer, so someone may correct me, and be right, but afaik, legally, sexual harassment is almost always, if not always, defined as work-related and that definition resides with the EEOC.

Legally, what he was doing was quite likely not technically "sexual harassment" unless these women were employees of a company he worked with or for.

I'm not sure how it goes down if they are game devs. Theoretically, most game devs probably have no real business relationship with polygon except for maybe buying ad space, which they also might not even buy from them directly.

What he did was scummy, and probably violates company policy, but it also might not be sexual harassment.

I'm purposely using a lot of maybes because I'm only like barely sure that this is mostly correct.

See, this is what my ignorant ass is thinking too. That, even if he had gone all in with the apology, the worse that could happen is his victims bringing a civil case against him.

And that most people aren't vindictive at heart even when wronged, and a genuine case of wanting to change is usually granted with a degree of understanding, especially as social media has a lot of sway here, and I'm fairly certain 100% ownership and commitment would see a lot of support for him in time.

This is of course basing it on what we /do/ know of his actions. There's a good chance he spun it because he knows he did worse, maybe something that /could/ see him charged.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

No one really believes this is solely about him sliding in some DMs and saying send nudes do they?

 

[Trup1aya]

See, this is what my ignorant ass is thinking too. That, even if he had gone all in with the apology, the worse that could happen is his victims bringing a civil case against him.

And that most people aren't vindictive at heart even when wronged, and a genuine case of wanting to change is usually granted with a degree of understanding, especially as social media has a lot of sway here, and I'm fairly certain 100% ownership and commitment would see a lot of support for him in time.

This is of course basing it on what we /do/ know of his actions. There's a good chance he spun it because he knows he did worse, maybe something that /could/ see him charged.

Are you from the US? people get sued for less, all the time!

 

[Jacksinthe]

No way, this kind of surveillance is totally uncalled for and a shaky step toward more nefarious tactics to monitor employees and people in general.

If your personal account's bio says:

Editor at
Writer for
X Show
Y Column
Etc

and actively leveraging that position for personal benefit - with it comes all the responsibility of a business account and being a representative of.

If you are unable to make the distinction between "surveillance" and personal leverage through open representation, I ask that you think through the specifics of how he leveraged his station for personal gain.

 

[Zakalwe]

No one really believes this is solely about him sliding in slme DMs and saying send nudes do they?

Who fucking knows. There's a good chance yes and there's a good chance the claims regarding this are hearsay.

I think if he'd done something truly vile it would come out though, right?

If your personal account's bio says:

Editor at
Writer for
X Show
Y Column
Etc

and actively leveraging that position for personal benefit - with it comes all the responsibility of a business account and being a representative of.

If you are unable to make the distinction between "surveillance" and personal leverage through open representation, I ask that you think through the specifics of how he leveraged his station for personal gain.

Sure, but I'm assuming the person in question has some kind of more regular 9-5.

If the bank I'd worked for has asked me to do this, I'd have found a new job or just lied about my social media presence and set my privacy accordingly. I wasn't getting anything from listing my ground-tier admin position on my profile.

Are you from the US? people get sued for less, all the time!

And people also come back from far worse than this. A point you have yet to respond to.

 

[CannonFodder52]

Who fucking knows. There's a good chance yes and there's a good chance the claims regarding this are hearsay.

I think if he'd done something truly vile it would come out though, right?

These people may have already talked to the folks preforming the investigation.

 

[Zakalwe]

These people may have already talked to the folks preforming the investigation.

Is there an active investigation, has this been escalated to that point?

Just curious now, not read anything like that.

 

[L Thammy]

I think if he'd done something truly vile it would come out though, right?

Why?

 

[Zakalwe]

Why?

Because quite a few people seem to know about him doing "more", and I don't think people are that good at keeping things back at the best of times.

Who knows, though...

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Edit: put it like this. Imagine you did something wrong, you feel remorse, but your lawyer told you that saying sorry would take food off of your child's plate, what would you do?

Oh well?
Actions have consequences.

 

[Zakalwe]

Edit: put it like this. Imagine you did something wrong, you feel remorse, but your lawyer told you that saying sorry would take food off of your child's plate, what would you do?

Does he have kids?

 

[Trup1aya]

And people also come back from far worse than this. A point you have yet to respond to.

The risk of not coming back is far greater than the likelihood of coming back. Not to mention the hardship during the redemption.

 

[Zakalwe]

The risk of not coming back is far greater than the likelihood of coming back. Not to mention the hardship during the redemption.

Yes, but the risk is also worth it because you, you know, actually acknowledge and pay for the crime?

I get your reasoning, but unless there's a situation where children are going to legit starve or something I couldn't ever agree with it.

Does he have kids?

 

[L Thammy]

Didn't he have a wife or girlfriend when he was doing this? If he had kids, I don't think he was considering them when he was doing this, either.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I'm 100% ok with this.

Like it or not, even when off the clock, you're a face of the company you work at/for. I'm a firm believer that a person's personal life and professional life are linked. You can't really have one without the other.

This is the most American thing ive ever heard what a load of shit

 

[CannonFodder52]

Is there an active investigation, has this been escalated to that point?

Just curious now, not read anything like that.

The company, Vox media, was doing an investigation or inquiry into this last week.

Edit: my point is, the victims were likely talking to those people. They probably weren't as concerned with NeoGAF seeing the twitter logs.

 

[Zakalwe]

This is the most American thing ive ever heard what a load of shit

It's frustrating to read. Like those who say "internet surveillance is fine, I've nothing to hide!".

The precedent these things set is a scary thing.

The company, Vox media, was doing an investigation or inquiry into this last week.

Edit: my point is, the victims were likely talking to those people. They probably weren't as concerned with NeoGAF seeing the twitter logs.

Oh, right yeh I read that and you're right.

I'm curious how bad it got, but I'm not going to try to discover it. I only hope it didn't get worse than this, for the sake of the potential victims.

 

[Temeculan3000]

This is the most American thing ive ever heard what a load of shit

What? It's very un-American as it promotes giving up personal liberties for the good of the company.

 

[BTA]

No one really believes this is solely about him sliding in some DMs and saying send nudes do they?

The original thread went 75 pages and just about every page there was a couple of people popping in believing that was literally it, and that's continued somewhat in this thread. I've also seen people on Twitter (who admittedly probably aren't coming from a great place to begin with) going "they really got him fired over flirting with a girl" etc. etc.

Who fucking knows. There's a good chance yes and there's a good chance the claims regarding this are hearsay.

I think if he'd done something truly vile it would come out though, right?

Because quite a few people seem to know about him doing "more", and I don't think people are that good at keeping things back at the best of times.

Who knows, though...

There's a 0% chance the claims in general are hearsay at this point. Furthermore people have heard about this (or were the victims themselves) and did not talk about it for literal years, so you not having heard anything specific means absolutely nothing. "If something worse happened, we would have heard of it" is a really gross line of thinking that's needlessly dismissive of those claims based on your own armchair analysis of community dynamics.

I don't know if you're in denial, so I don't want to be rude, but acting like this is the end of it is foolish at best.

Didn't he have a wife or girlfriend when he was doing this? If he had kids, I don't think he was considering them when he was doing this, either.

He had a girlfriend he was cheating on, yes.

 

[Squire]

Do you not like an opinion different from yours being expressed? I can see the appeal of echo chambers, but you'll be intellectually coddled and your growth stunted that way.

Your posts read like you already suffer from these.

 

[jettpack]

Because quite a few people seem to know about him doing "more", and I don't think people are that good at keeping things back at the best of times.

Who knows, though...

There is no reason for people who are Involved to wanna make themeselves a target by talking more explicitly about the grosser stuff.

 

[Zakalwe]

There's a 0% chance the claims in general are hearsay at this point. Furthermore people have heard about this (or were the victims themselves) and did not talk about it for literal years, so you not having heard anything specific means absolutely nothing. "If something worse happened, we would have heard of it" is a really gross line of thinking that's needlessly dismissive of those claims based on your own armchair analysis of community dynamics.

It's not 0% chance, and as much as I agree he almost certainly did more there's still a chance it's not much worse than we already know. We've seen enough of these things unfold on social media to now things aren't always what they seem, on both sides.

I'm not going to argue any more in favour of this though as I don't want to be arguing in favour of a person who clearly cannot own his actions for whatever cowardly reason, and I personally think worse /did/ happen.

There is no reason for people who are Involved to wanna make themeselves a target by talking more explicitly about the grosser stuff.

Sure, I understand that. I'm also aware that secrets are hard to keep, especially when things are emotionally charged like this.

As I said before, I can only hope it /is/ hearsay for the sake of the victims.

 

[jettpack]

The original thread went 75 pages and just about every page there was a couple of people popping in believing that was literally it, and that's continued somewhat in this thread. I've also seen people on Twitter (who admittedly probably aren't coming from a great place to begin with) going "they really got him fired over flirting with a girl" etc. etc.





There's a 0% chance the claims in general are hearsay at this point. Furthermore people have heard about this (or were the victims themselves) and did not talk about it for literal years, so you not having heard anything specific means absolutely nothing. "If something worse happened, we would have heard of it" is a really gross line of thinking that's needlessly dismissive of those claims based on your own armchair analysis of community dynamics.

I don't know if you're in denial, so I don't want to be rude, but acting like this is the end of it is foolish at best.



He had a girlfriend he was cheating on, yes.

this is right on

 

[nintendork666]

Honestly don't think I've ever read a more genuine public apology. No clue who this gut is but heard of the controversy prior. Good on him.

 

[Choomp]

Based on what some people are saying, the specifics of this seem to be a lot worse than most seem to suspect...

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The original thread went 75 pages and just about every page there was a couple of people popping in believing that was literally it, and that's continued somewhat in this thread. I've also seen people on Twitter (who admittedly probably aren't coming from a great place to begin with) going "they really got him fired over flirting with a girl" etc. etc.

(Shakes head)

Shit doesn't blow up over send nudes memes. Obviously more to it.