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Nick Robinson (Polygon) answers to sexual harassment allegations, leaves Polygon

S

Spman2099

Member
This feels like a solid response to this situation. Acknowledge the wrongdoing, give perspective on why it occurred (without justifying it), apologize sincerely, and step down.

What follows is the important next step... We will see what Nick does in the future.

*edit*

Having read it over again, I think he could have been more specific in outlining what he did wrong. I still think it is a good apology, all things considered, but I am removing the word "ideal" from my post.
 
J

jaybe00

Neo Member
GlamFM said:
Alt-accounts I assume.

They always pop up in threads like this one.
Click to expand...

Do you not like an opinion different from yours being expressed? I can see the appeal of echo chambers, but you'll be intellectually coddled and your growth stunted that way.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
jaybe00 said:
Sadly they are probably suggestively messaged every week by a guy be it text, tinder or snap. Just happens this guy has some minor fame, and now it's something to put him on the cross for as an example.
Click to expand...

The difference is everyone thought Nick was better than that.
 
S

SJurgenson

Banned
jaybe00 said:
What he did was unprofessional, maybe he should have been fired, maybe heavily warned, but the piling on regarding what goes on in his private life and the built up offence people are generating seems largely disproportionate. Rightly or wrongly, people get to the point quickly on sexual interest much faster nowadays. There's no mystique. What he did, many people are doing right now. Maybe some of the people getting offended this instant have their tinder and snapchat notifications going off.

As for things that are truly wrong, Such as pedos, assault, hate crime, tax evasion etc, sure stigmatize away.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you are being honest here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

'His private life' ceases to be 'private' when it influences others. He harassed multiple woman, and therefore there is no 'private' life involved -- we're talking about actions he took with other people, in which those other people shared there experiences.

There's no 'harasser/harassee privilege'. He did shitty things to multiple women, and they spoke out.

Would you agree that one of the bases of 'truly wrong' things is the concept of consent? That many things we consider 'wrong' are things where one person does something to someone else with out their consent, such as murdering them?

Harassment is not a consensual activity. You want to blur the lines between 'flirting' and 'harassment', just as he does in his statement. Flirting is largely consensual -- the person being flirted on can choose to treat the flirt as a flirt, and reciprocate consensually -- or they can respond as if the flirt was not flirtatious, and respond platonicly -- or not at all.

If someone says 'I like the way your hair looks today' to me, I have the following options:
  1. If I want to flirt back, I can say 'Thanks! Maybe I'll style it this way more often...' -- This consents to the now less platonic conversation/relationship.
  2. If I am not interested in the person, but want to remain platonic, I can say 'Thanks.' -- By not flirting back, I did not consent to the attempt to reframe the relationship as more than platonic.
  3. If I really don't like the person, I can say nothing -- making it very clear how I view them.

There is no consensual aspect to harassment -- once someone says to me 'show me your tits' there's no walking back to a platonic place -- they've forced their way through to a sexual place I did not agree to.

That's what differentiates flirting and harassment, and makes harassment wrong.
 
M

Monkeyball

Banned
jaybe00 said:
Do you not like an opinion different from yours being expressed? I can see the appeal of echo chambers, but you'll be intellectually coddled and your growth stunted that way.
Click to expand...

Your IQ is so big!

Seriously bro, if you think his behaviour is normal, it's time for you to grow intellectually and emotionally.
 
S

SJurgenson

Banned
Spman2099 said:
This feels like the ideal response to this situation. Acknowledge the wrongdoing, give perspective on why it occurred (without justifying it), apologize sincerely, and step down.

What follows is the important next step... We will see what Nick does in the future.
Click to expand...

Except he did not acknowledge his wrongdoing of serially harassing women without their consent. He only acknowledge the lesser, bullshit charge of being bad at 'flirting'.
 
GlamFM

GlamFM

Banned
jaybe00 said:
That was one of the offending acts he did, right? Is it disgusting in your opinion for writing it (since it was posted prior by another not sure why you'd call me out on it)?
Click to expand...

You´re at least implying that asking someone over to "blow them" (out of context) is not sexual harassment - I find that a disgusting opinion, yes.
 
T

tsundoku

Member
his reply basically sounds like "i talked to my lawyer and he said it was wise to call it flirting and not admit to sexual harassment"
 
M

mcrommert

Banned
Hot Take - the reason that his actions seem so disgusting and revolting is because they are. The cognitive dissonance many of you are running into is that our hookup sexual culture has made these kind of interactions seem normal and run of the mill.

Casually interacting with women as if they are just the something you can get something from as the end result of a transaction is evil...period
 
K

Kebiinu

Banned
Guys, guys! We have to be tolerant of intolerance, because we don't want to be intellectually stunted with our echo chamber opinions! Won't somebody please think of the racist, sexist, bigoted victims?!
 
V

Vanguard771

Member
tsundoku said:
his reply basically sounds like "i talked to my lawyer and he said it was wise to call it flirting and not admit to sexual harassment"
Click to expand...
I expressed this same sentiment earlier. Whether he in sincere or not, it was still written in a way that doesn't have him confessing guilt for sexual harassment.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
mcrommert said:
Hot Take - the reason that his actions seem so disgusting and revolting is because they are. The cognitive dissonance many of you are running into is that our hookup sexual culture has made these kind of interactions seem normal and run of the mill.

Casually interacting with women as if they are just the something you can get something from as the end result of a transaction is evil...period
Click to expand...

Let's not conflate things that don't need to be. There's nothing wrong with "hookup sexual culture." That's too easy on Nick, and leans into his idea that what he was doing was just "flirting." This isn't flirting, or hooking up, it's harassment.

It's a product of rape culture, not hook up culture.

And no, that doesn't mean I'm literally saying Nick is a rapist.
 
N

N7.Angel

Member
Ok in my book, everyone deserves a second chance, don't screw up this time and atone for your sins by helping other people, be a decent human now.
 
S

Spman2099

Member
Neptonic said:
https://twitter.com/ybbaaabby/status/895875398927433729
https://twitter.com/ybbaaabby/status/895876064244670464
Abby from Giant Bomb goes in on him
Click to expand...

I think, in all honesty, Nick probably only ever thought of what he was doing as flirtation. It was absolutely more than that, he was in a position of power, that did create unfair, unequal, pressure. What he did WAS abusive, but I doubt that is how he saw it. Abby is absolutely correct that ignorance isn't an excuse, but he did admit to wrong doing, so I don't know if he is actually making excuses.

As for Abby stating that Nick's "behavior is wrong even if he wasn't a public figure"... I agree, to a point. However, while I would have thought he was a bit of a sleaze if this is how he talked to people on a dating website, I wouldn't see it as something that was bad enough to be actionable (in regards to his job, that is). It really is the position he held that made it abusive.

SJurgenson said:
Except he did not acknowledge his wrongdoing of serially harassing women without their consent. He only acknowledge the lesser, bullshit charge of being bad at 'flirting'.
Click to expand...

I am going to read it over again and see if that is the case. I thought he did apologize... [I will amend this post in a second]

*edit*

Having read it again, I absolutely see where you are coming from, Jurgenson. However, he did say that he didn't appreciate his position of power and that he didn't handle it responsibly. Also, he apologized for the unwanted advances he made. He did end by saying that he was sorry. Once again, I see what you are saying, he could have labelled his behavior, more explicitly, as abusive. However, I do think he does a lot more than just apologize for being bad at flirting.
 
S

SJurgenson

Banned
mcrommert said:
Hot Take - the reason that his actions seem so disgusting and revolting is because they are. The cognitive dissonance many of you are running into is that our hookup sexual culture has made these kind of interactions seem normal and run of the mill.

Casually interacting with women as if they are just the something you can get something from as the end result of a transaction is evil...period
Click to expand...

I think that part of the issue is that there are parts of our culture (and certain communication media) in which the participants generally have consented to skipping directly to sexual discussions, and people are believing (or wanting to believe) that just because some actions are OK there, they are OK everywhere.

For example, 'Hey girl wanna get freaky' is one of the more conservative opening lines you could use on a service like Tinder. The entire service is designed for hooking up -- anyone signing up for Tinder has consented to having sexual conversations, it's the entire fucking point. But just because it's OK on Tinder does not make it OK everywhere -- but dudes today are perfectly happy to look at the example of a place or situation where boundries have been pushed the furthest, and want to scream that that is the new normal. In the process they either forget or ignore the fact that people consented to those boundries by joining Tinder, and use that as an excuse to non-consentually harass people in public and private.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
jaybe00 said:
Laws primarily determine the truly wrong activities. Surely what he did is not upstanding, brace or courageous though. Acting like millions of young people aren't being transactionally fast at gauging interest be it with tinder or snapchat nowadays is kind of putting your head under a rock.
Click to expand...

jaybe00 said:
What he did was unprofessional, maybe he should have been fired, maybe heavily warned, but the piling on regarding what goes on in his private life and the built up offence people are generating seems largely disproportionate. Rightly or wrongly, people get to the point quickly on sexual interest much faster nowadays. There's no mystique. What he did, many people are doing right now. Maybe some of the people getting offended this instant have their tinder and snapchat notifications going off.

As for things that are truly wrong, Such as pedos, assault, hate crime, tax evasion etc, sure stigmatize away.
Click to expand...
Twitter is not OKCupid or Tinder. People on those apps look for dates, on Twitter they do not. Big difference. Even then, if you are going around asking nudes on OKCupid, you probably catch a ban after a while also.

If you can't grasp the concept that you should not ask for nudes or start saying how a girl is "thirsty" out of the blue, you might want to talk to some girls about their experiences online and in real life when it comes to this stuff.

Even if it is not illegal, it is wrong. If I go outside and randomly start bothering people, asking them to show me their boobs or dick, it is probably not illegal, but you are still an asshole for it and deserve to be called out over it.

jaybe00 said:
Do you not like an opinion different from yours being expressed? I can see the appeal of echo chambers, but you'll be intellectually coddled and your growth stunted that way.
Click to expand...
Harassment != a different opinion.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Basically, Nick hears a woman say "nice shirt" and goes "okay now how do I get nudes out of this".

As opposed to hearing a woman say "nice shirt" and thinking "oh cool someone likes my shirt"
 
J

jaybe00

Neo Member
SJurgenson said:
I don't believe you are being honest here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

'His private life' ceases to be 'private' when it influences others. He harassed multiple woman, and therefore there is no 'private' life involved -- we're talking about actions he took with other people, in which those other people shared there experiences.

There's no 'harasser/harassee privilege'. He did shitty things to multiple women, and they spoke out.

Would you agree that one of the bases of 'truly wrong' things is the concept of consent? That many things we consider 'wrong' are things where one person does something to someone else with out their consent, such as murdering them?

Harassment is not a consensual activity. You want to blur the lines between 'flirting' and 'harassment', just as he does in his statement. Flirting is largely consensual -- the person being flirted on can choose to treat the flirt as a flirt, and reciprocate consensually -- or they can respond as if the flirt was not flirtatious, and respond platonicly -- or not at all.

If someone says 'I like the way your hair looks today' to me, I have the following options:
  1. If I want to flirt back, I can say 'Thanks! Maybe I'll style it this way more often...' -- This consents to the now less platonic conversation/relationship.
  2. If I am not interested in the person, but want to remain platonic, I can say 'Thanks.' -- By not flirting back, I did not consent to the attempt to reframe the relationship as more than platonic.
  3. If I really don't like the person, I can say nothing -- making it very clear how I view them.

There is no consensual aspect to harassment -- once someone says to me 'show me your tits' there's no walking back to a platonic place -- they've forced their way through to a sexual place I did not agree to.

That's what differentiates flirting and harassment, and makes harassment wrong.
Click to expand...

Thank you for a reasoned and nuance perspective on this. At some point in pursuing a person puts it out that they want to ratchet it up sexually, sadly this seems done electronically more often than not nowadays. When the person then needs to be told "no, I'm not interested in you that way". If they continue with it a later time, they need blocked or told again. The continuing with the asks is bad behaviour - I can agree with that. The ask the first time is not necessarily. If there were clues they wouldn't be receptive at all, something suggestive shouldn't be brought up in the first place.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
jaybe00 said:
Thank you for a reasoned and nuance perspective on this. At some point in pursuing a person puts it out that they want to ratchet it up sexually, sadly this seems done electronically more often than not nowadays. When the person then needs to be told "no, I'm not interested in you that way". If they continue with it a later time, they need blocked or told again. The continuing with the asks is bad behaviour - I can agree with that. The ask the first time is not necessarily. If there were clues they wouldn't be receptive at all, something suggestive shouldn't be brought up in the first place.
Click to expand...
I kind of expect that when a person makes his brand around his person, and thus his Twitter, Snapchat and other media he interacts with his fanbase through, that everything he does on there should be seen in light of him as a brand and professional. And I then also expect there to be absolutely zero suggestive interaction there.
 
B

BTA

Member
Temeculan3000 said:
I just want to know what people mean when they say predator... because to me that heavily implies rapist.
Click to expand...

Someone who serially sexually harasses women, particularly women he has power over/he can manipulate, is a predator even without doing anything physically.
 
G

Glass Shark

Banned
This thread is prime evidence that men in our society need to be taught what sexual harassment actually is. The fact that anyone in this thread thinks what he did is okay, even if it is literally just what we have screenshots of, is fucking disgusting.

And that's without even bringing other allegations into the mix, which are completely and utterly sick. He needs to go hide under a rock for the rest of his life, leech off of his rich family, and thank his lucky stars his ass isn't in jail.
 
S

superbeau

Neo Member
Temeculan3000 said:
I just want to know what people mean when they say predator... because to me that heavily implies rapist.
Click to expand...

naw you don't only have to be a rapist. Nick was using his accounts to solicit nudes from his teen fans and would ask them to be quiet about it. We for sure know that.

Now I'm linking this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoolGamesInc/comments/6swuw7/statement_from_nick/dlgb3wz/ The twitter links from game biz people are definitely alluded to some worse behavior. Named people with reputations and futures are not letting this go.
 
D

dragonchild

Banned
SJurgenson said:
If someone says 'I like the way your hair looks today' to me, I have the following options:
  1. If I want to flirt back, I can say 'Thanks! Maybe I'll style it this way more often...' -- This consents to the now less platonic conversation/relationship.
  2. If I am not interested in the person, but want to remain platonic, I can say 'Thanks.' -- By not flirting back, I did not consent to the attempt to reframe the relationship as more than platonic.
  3. If I really don't like the person, I can say nothing -- making it very clear how I view them.
Click to expand...
This in no way exonerates Robinson but to a lot of men this is as clear as mud. The first option can very easily be interpreted as platonic and I've absolutely been told by some women that they've avoided saying anything to men they were interested in because they were "too shy" but very much would've liked the man to keep trying. Not to mention, every exchange of (what's perceived as) mutual exchange of flirting is at some point going to become sexual, and assuming equality half the time it's going to be a man. Now consider that not all understandings of a social exchanges are mutually understood. Lines get crossed, in part because not everyone knows where they are. It's not like any NeoGAFer ever started a thread because he's a confused soul who honestly can't tell a flirt from a rock in the face and wants to do the right thing without hurting anyone. . . yeah, that never happens.

But in those cases it should be an isolated event resolved with a personal apology and a resolve to do better. Isn't the case here that it kept happening? The problem I see here is that it was about him, and it's still about him. As you said, it's the lack of consent. It's the social equivalent of driving on a public road with your eyes closed -- even if the lights and lines weren't there, as in no rules, you keep your damn eyes open so you can see where you are and where you're going to avoid hitting anything that might injure yourself or others. Social interactions are extremely complex and varied, and some people are as clueless as rocks (and unfortunately when reasonable people aren't to be found they will give each other terrible advice) so not every botched exchange or rude comment is malicious. But if you're oblivious to (or DGAF about) how others feel about what you're saying or doing, rules or no rules, at some point you're going to be doing some serious damage well beyond what can be excused as a mistake.
 
T

Temeculan3000

Member
BTA said:
Someone who serially sexually harasses women, particularly women he has power over/he can manipulate, is a predator even without doing anything physically.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Do you think he was purposefully trying to use his position to coerce women into sexual relations, or do you think he was just an awkward nerd who was incredibly stupid and as he claims in his apology didn't appreciate the position of power he actually had?

I am not defending his actions or saying it wasn't sexual harassment, it absolutely was. I guess the question is, do you believe his actions were malevolent, or just extremely inconsiderate and selfish?

superbeau said:
naw you don't only have to be a rapist. Nick was using his accounts to solicit nudes from his teen fans and would ask them to be quiet about it. We for sure know that.

Now I'm linking this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoolGamesInc/comments/6swuw7/statement_from_nick/dlgb3wz/ The twitter links from game biz people are definitely alluded to some worse behavior. Named people with reputations and futures are not letting this go.
Click to expand...


Oh wow, I didn't realize that. I thought he was just trying to get hookups and going about it terribly wrong.
 
S

SJurgenson

Banned
jaybe00 said:
Thank you for a reasoned and nuance perspective on this. At some point in pursuing a person puts it out that they want to ratchet it up sexually, sadly this seems done electronically more often than not nowadays. When the person then needs to be told "no, I'm not interested in you that way". If they continue with it a later time, they need blocked or told again. The continuing with the asks is bad behaviour - I can agree with that. The ask the first time is not necessarily. If there were clues they wouldn't be receptive at all, something suggestive shouldn't be brought up in the first place.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're starting to see things differently than before. However, I do want to push back on your statement slightly:

jaybe00 said:
Thank you for a reasoned and nuance perspective on this. At some point in pursuing a person puts it out that they want to ratchet it up sexually, sadly this seems done electronically more often than not nowadays.
Click to expand...

I interpret your 'done' as 'finished' here. Let me know if that's wrong.

It is largely 'done' online as dudes have (non-consentually) declared it to be 'done' -- they does not make it right. If tons of dudes go to clubs and generally seem to declare the concept of asking someone for permission to stab them as 'done', they are not now somehow acting morally when stabbing people.

Having an interaction over electronic media vs classic media (or face to face) largely does not change the social boundaries involved. In a general medium (not designed for romantic/sexual discussions in particular), the same rules hold true as face-to-face -- if it's not appropriate to ask 'show me your tits' offline, it's not appropriate online. Electronic communication does not waive decency, respect, and morality just because it is electronic and generally anonymous.

jaybe00 said:
If they continue with it a later time, they need blocked or told again. The continuing with the asks is bad behaviour - I can agree with that. The ask the first time is not necessarily. If there were clues they wouldn't be receptive at all, something suggestive shouldn't be brought up in the first place.
Click to expand...

You seem to be advocating a shoot first, ask permission later framework: 'The ask the first time is not necessary'. Asking permission and acting consentually is always necessary. Flirting is consensual, harassment is not. As described above, 'show me your tits' can be OK on sexual services as the people on those services presumptively consented when they signed up. Twitter is not a sexting service, it's not OK to jump directly to sexual conversations with strangers.

There are some interesting discussions and write-ups of the philosophical concept of consent in the BDSM community. One of the basic tenants of all BDSM activities is consent, and the ability to revoke it at a moment's notice. There are people who role-play as 'slaves', even going as far as signing 'contracts' with their 'master' -- but even there, any ethical BDSM practitioner will make sure there is always a bright-line rule that any participant can revoke their consent at any time.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
kaskade said:
I'm so curious to hear this as it grows. Right now he's making it seem like he just asked for nudes or whatever. The responses from some in the industry are making it seem like he's done worse.
Click to expand...

"just asked for nudes"

Eh? That's something that should never be done under any circumstance.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
I mean, social interactions are complex, but that's why you try to feel people out. Be coy and see if they respond to you. Get an idea of who it is you're talking to. You don't jump from "nice shirt" to "send nudes".

It's a little like how you shouldn't decide on a first date to show a girl how far video games have come since Super Mario Bros. Act like you're a human being interacting with another human being instead of a resource where you simply extract your desires from.
 
R

Real Hero

Member
err if you follow some of those reddits links they make some pretty horrible claims about him like trying to rape a drunk girl at a convention and stuff. Obviously could just be people piling on but still
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
superbeau said:
naw you don't only have to be a rapist. Nick was using his accounts to solicit nudes from his teen fans and would ask them to be quiet about it. We for sure know that.

Now I'm linking this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoolGamesInc/comments/6swuw7/statement_from_nick/dlgb3wz/ The twitter links from game biz people are definitely alluded to some worse behavior. Named people with reputations and futures are not letting this go.
Click to expand...
Seems there is a bit more going on from tweets like that, but we'll probably never know.

But man, that apology gets worse and worse. Even if in his mind it was just flirting - which I don't believe for a second - why the hell are you flirting with underage girls!
 
B

BTA

Member
superbeau said:
naw you don't only have to be a rapist. Nick was using his accounts to solicit nudes from his teen fans and would ask them to be quiet about it. We for sure know that.

Now I'm linking this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoolGamesInc/comments/6swuw7/statement_from_nick/dlgb3wz/ The twitter links from game biz people are definitely alluded to some worse behavior. Named people with reputations and futures are not letting this go.
Click to expand...

That's a decent collection of links; there's a few things there I hadn't seen. Though looking at the portion of the subreddit that's in denial is hard and disappointing, though not unexpected.

Temeculan3000 said:
Fair enough. Do you think he was purposefully trying to use his position to coerce women into sexual relations, or do you think he was just an awkward nerd who was incredibly stupid and as he claims in his apology didn't appreciate the position of power he actually had?

I am not defending his actions or saying it wasn't sexual harassment, it absolutely was. I guess the question is, do you believe his actions were malevolent, or just extremely inconsiderate and selfish?
Click to expand...

Even with the vague stuff I've heard beyond the chat logs that were posted, I would say he was at the very least purposefully being manipulative. I'm sure there were some instances of this that were just inconsiderate, instances that were sudden opportunities for him to do this, but even then, that's going to be malevolent as soon as he realizes that and acts on it. I'd entertain the idea that the "didn't realize I had power" thing might have been true at first, but 1. the result of his realization was to abuse it, not to account for it and 2. it sounds like some of these incidents happened pre-Polygon so it's kinda moot anyway.

Most importantly, once there's a pattern with lots of people involved it would be very naive to think that he was bumbling into this.
 
N

NimbusD

Member
Huh, you don't really see apologies that feel sincere often on these types of situations. Let's hope it's an honest one of guess.
 
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