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The Flame in the Flood has its best debut on Switch - "Smashed expectations"
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
I was thinking about creating a thread for this game (gotta check if an OT exists first) but given how busy I am, I don't know when that'll be. I will say one thing right now however; I'm enjoying this game a great deal. It scratches an itch I didn't know needed scratching and it is the exact type of repeatable game I was looking for on the Switch.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
No OT has been made for this game on any platform; I checked, as I wanted to ask questions before jumping in, but quickly realized that hardly anyone has played it here either. I picked it up myself and will likely want to jot down impressions, so I'll keep an eye out for a thread if you choose to make one.
You just convinced me. Oh it's already been boughten!!!
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Got through the first three zones of the story mode in one sitting; haven't died yet, but there have been a few close calls. So far my impression is that this is a very good game, better than the muted reception to it led me to expect, although I'm not very far and don't have a perspective on things like replayability. I'll say more when I'm further along and when we have an actual thread for it.
Some notes for those of you thinking of jumping in or curious about the port:
- Don't expect to play in tabletopthe text is too small. It's adequate in handheld, and the crispness of the display goes a long way towards saving this from being like Xenoblade X on the Wii U GamePad, but they weren't kidding about this being a straight port from PC.
- Battery drain is fairly intensive; I nearly emptied mine from full in about 2.5 hours, which is faster power consumption than the likes of BotW or MK8D.
- Story mode (survive 10 zones) has two difficulties, a beginner mode with checkpoints and a hardcore mode with permadeath and scarcer resources. The endless mode is separate but also accessible right from the start.
- Three gameplay tips you'll want to know going in: (a) You'll be in the inventory screen a lot and should know that it does not pause the action, so don't rummage around your bag unless you're safe. (b) You have access to three inventoriesyourself, your dog (which carries items to your next file if you fail), and your raft (only accessible when you're next to it). (c) Inventory expansions are crafted items (pouches), so scroll ahead to see which materials you should be saving up for it, as it won't be long before you are desperate for more slots. Everything else is fairly self-explanatory or guided by tutorial-lke quests.
Some notes for those of you thinking of jumping in or curious about the port:
- Don't expect to play in tabletopthe text is too small. It's adequate in handheld, and the crispness of the display goes a long way towards saving this from being like Xenoblade X on the Wii U GamePad, but they weren't kidding about this being a straight port from PC.
- Battery drain is fairly intensive; I nearly emptied mine from full in about 2.5 hours, which is faster power consumption than the likes of BotW or MK8D.
- Story mode (survive 10 zones) has two difficulties, a beginner mode with checkpoints and a hardcore mode with permadeath and scarcer resources. The endless mode is separate but also accessible right from the start.
- Three gameplay tips you'll want to know going in: (a) You'll be in the inventory screen a lot and should know that it does not pause the action, so don't rummage around your bag unless you're safe. (b) You have access to three inventoriesyourself, your dog (which carries items to your next file if you fail), and your raft (only accessible when you're next to it). (c) Inventory expansions are crafted items (pouches), so scroll ahead to see which materials you should be saving up for it, as it won't be long before you are desperate for more slots. Everything else is fairly self-explanatory or guided by tutorial-lke quests.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Someone please make an ot so we can get out of switch sales hell.
Great game and it's wonderful that it's finding a bigger audience. I really enjoyed playing. The atmosphere is magnificent, the gameplay is suitably difficult, and when you kill your first wolf it really feels like a victory. Plenty of ways to die horribly, too, from crashing to snakebite to hypothermia.
Peterthumpa
Member
13rd in the Australian eShop right now.
Had no idea I could use the raft as an inventory. An OT would really be nice.
to add to this:
- ‎you can tap the [ZL] button to bring up a quick inventory to access things such as your traps, foods, etc. quickly without having to go into the inventory screen.
- you seem to need each item on hand (ie in your bag) when you're crafting something. That is unless you're on a dock next to your raft. So I like to store items I won't use often onto my raft and craft the non-essentials when I land or am about to depart.
- ‎you can break down hats, jackets and other articles of clothing for rags which you can craft into bandages if you have alcohol.
- DO NOT fight wolves or other threats unless you're positive you can kill said threat. If you are seen by a wolf run away. If it catches up to you, stand your ground for a moment and scare it away [X] to buy you some time. You can go back to kill it once you're safe to craft a weapon or tainted meat, but do not try crafting if your presence is known.
As alluded to before, I don't know how long the longevity will last, despite even having an endless mode but I am having a ton of fun. Also, I'd be up to making the OT/LTTP thread if no one else wants to. The only problem is I don't know when I'd be able to.
When I killed my first wolf, I instantly yelled "fuck you wolf!", then soon after I landed on an island with two wolves and was like "listen, you said some things. I said some things. That's all behind us now..."
But you've just been shown that numbers-wise, the competition is barely less on Switch than on PS4, but you cling on to 'easier for Flame in the Flood to exist within the titles released on Switch', which means absolutely fuck all. You do you man, but games are not doing better on Switch because it's a wasteland of releases.
The bolded part - why is this not noteworthy anyway? Is it not interesting that games passed over on other platforms are doing well on Switch? And you're not even right - Shovel Knight sold like crazy everywhere and it did best on the Switch.
There are less high quality games fighting for peoples attention right now (on Switch) than there were on PS4 in Jan 2017 when Flame and the Flood was released. That's blatantly obvious and is having a positive impact on sales on the platform.
Saint Gregory
Member
I picked it up last night and didn't notice any performance issues. I'm really surprised by how good it is, a really different take on a survival game. It has a short burst quality to it that suits being portable as well.
Very much the same vibe. Essentially you have a raft and your dog, and the two of you are trying to make it down the river without dying. It's a survival game, so the idea is not particularly new, but the execution is wonderful. From the music to the sound to how creepy the wolves are, all of the little pieces of ambience are nailed. Gameplay is back and forth between rafting and island scavenging. On the river you have to avoid tons of debris, and each time you hit your raft gets a little shakier. On land you can find food and clothing and repair materials for your raft, as well as all manner of other items. There are also scattered stories from other survivors, and the survivors themselves, whom you can often trade with.
I played quite a bit of it on PC, and it sounds like a really good fit for the Switch.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
I played the hell out of this game this weekend and couldn't put it down, and I've just achieved my first clear of the campaign mode on the lower difficulty. I'd be happy to answer any questions if somebody does put together an OT for the game.
Probably going to try my hand at the campaign on the Survivalist difficulty, as I'm curious to see how it's balanced; I'll save the endless mode for another time. On the lower difficulty I was extremely well supplied and never ran into resource trouble once I got past the early game (zone 3 or so), although I'm glad I did this mode first to learn the game, as I did need to use the checkpoint restart thrice to figure out one particular story-mode sequence that blocked me hard until I worked out how to get through it (
). My successful run took me about 8 hours of play from start to finish, including the checkpoint restarts, and
, although my total play time so far has been a fair bit higher, as I restarted from scratch after a few learning attempts that didn't get all that far.
Probably going to try my hand at the campaign on the Survivalist difficulty, as I'm curious to see how it's balanced; I'll save the endless mode for another time. On the lower difficulty I was extremely well supplied and never ran into resource trouble once I got past the early game (zone 3 or so), although I'm glad I did this mode first to learn the game, as I did need to use the checkpoint restart thrice to figure out one particular story-mode sequence that blocked me hard until I worked out how to get through it (
dealing with the bear at the rocket in zone 7
exactly 40 in-game days, which has a certain biblical elegance
element
Member
The people who made this were old co-workers of mine. Happy that the game is getting more attention. It has been fun watching them go from KS to Steam to Xbox to PS4 to Switch.
However while those statements are exciting to hear, it isn't a huge windfall for the developers The Molasses Flood as most of the money is just covering the cost to port to Switch.
They have been an interesting team to watch. Some of their team helped Doublefine out on Psychonauts 2.
However while those statements are exciting to hear, it isn't a huge windfall for the developers The Molasses Flood as most of the money is just covering the cost to port to Switch.
They have been an interesting team to watch. Some of their team helped Doublefine out on Psychonauts 2.
I don't believe so.
If you're comparing the entire PS4 library in Jan 2017 vs the Switch's entire library now, then yes the PS4 has more high-quality games. But I don't think that's how these things work. The Switch already has more high-quality games than one person could conceivably keep up with, and yet full-price, late indie releases are still selling gangbusters. We're not talking about a drip-feed of games on the Switch - more games released on the Switch this week than on PS4 in the week Flame in the Flood came out.
It was announced as one of the first two Switch indie games published by Curve Digital, 2 month back. Curve Digital was one of the most active indie publishers for the Wii U (Stealth Inc 2, OlliOlli, The Swapper, etc), but they started their Switch support fairly late compared to others with this as their first released game.
"Human Fall Flat" and "Serial Cleaner" published by Curve has been announced as well now, so they seems to be starting to get more Switch games in the pipeline.
It 100% is how these things work. A game coming out doesn't have to only compete with the games released that week. It's also competing with people's backlogs.
Bomber Crew was also announced. It releases on pc next week, Switch in 2018.
Again, there are more games on the Switch now than any one person can conceivably keep up with. Games aren't selling because people are starved for something to play. People buying games on the Switch have backlogs on other platforms too. It's reductive to the point of pointlessness to chalk off a game doing better on the Switch than PS4 down to the PS4's bigger library.
True in some sense but I have been tempted by a few titles recently that moves me away from Zelda and onto them. It is certainly possible to distract people from their backlog, hell it's done all the time on Steam.
I never said anyone was starved. But there are less games fighting for people's attention.
It's not something isolated to switch. Look at all the sequels to early gen games failing to sell even half of their predecessors. Plus you're pretending only the games released during the week of a games launch are competing for attention and sales. Scroll through PSN and scroll through the eShop and tell me there's no difference.
For all this talk about competition, people tend to forget that:
1) The userbase is also far smaller.
2) A lot (if not most) of Switch owners also have other consoles/PC, so now this late ports are competing not only with Switch's library, but also with the libraries of other consoles.
1) The userbase is also far smaller.
2) A lot (if not most) of Switch owners also have other consoles/PC, so now this late ports are competing not only with Switch's library, but also with the libraries of other consoles.
GhostTrick
Banned
To put it more politely, competition isn't only about the sheer number of releases but also about the quality of said releases, in general and at the time of release. Shovel Knight had its best debut on Switch indeed. Doesn't mean it outsold other SKUs in general. It means it did better compared to the same period with other platforms. But we don't know from when to when and if that count sales or owners (which some got their copy from the kickstarter).
Of course, that's a given considering the PS4's popularity and the fact that it came out earlier. But it's reductive to chalk off FitF's success on Switch to the fact that there are more games on PS4 because I'm certain you'll find games that have released on both that have performed better on PS4, and indie games on PS4 you'd expect to get lost in a vast library that have sold better than expected. There's so much nuance and so many factors that go into a game's sales performance that boiling it down to 'Switch has fewer games than PS4' is terribly simplistic.
Is your argument here that early gen games sell better than late gen? And what are these sequels which fail to sell as well? Like I said above, so many factors go into a game's sales performance beyond 'is there anything else to play' that reducing it to whether it comes out early or late gen is super reductive. And I'm not pretending anything. Why else do release dates get moved when a big name game barges in? Games releasing in the same week, or month at a stretch, are direct competitors.
I don't see the point your Shovel Knight elaboration is making and you're stating the obvious. It had its best debut on Switch, so yes, that means it hasn't outsold everything else in general.
You've been reacted to a lot in this topic because of this: "it remains a fact that Switch is still a young platform with a small library"
Switch is a young platform, and its library is smaller than its competitors, but that doesn't make it a small library. We're long past the point where Switch users wait for games to release - just look at the sheer number of games that have come out in the past 3 months.
And you've gone from 'release schedule on Switch is smaller than other platforms' - a point rebutted with the Wii U example, and thoroughly proven wrong by the number of games that have actually been released, after you provided misleading data - to ''its easier for Flame in the Flood to exist within the titles released in the last 3 months on Switch compared to the titles released on PS4". Moving the goalposts as you see fit.
Not sure why you quoted me here since you are arguing against a point I never made.
nintendork666
Member
Wait, why won't they let CSH on Switch?
GhostTrick
Banned
My point is we totally lack concrete data. What do they mean about "strongest debut" ?
Month ? Day ? Week ? Is it about revenue or owners ? Because it was a kickstarted game, it is important. And it also change that Shovel Knight became more popular through word of mouth. For exemple: I have no doubt Stardew Valley had a bigger launch on Switch rather than Steam. For the sole reason when it released on Steam, it was unknown for exemple.
And yes, it is my point. Small library in term of number but also more importantly about quality. So while I have been wrong about the release schedule number with PS4 (even though, that's also because we agreed to remove PSVR titles) my point always has been about competition from other titles. Even if in the last 3 months, PS4 and Switch had the same number of release, when you look into the releases in question, it shows what I'm talking about and that some titles were bigger than others. It's easier for Flame in the Flood to release on Switch when in the same week, it released alongside Wulverblade, Yono and the Celestial Elephant, Tiny Barbarian DX, Squareboy VS Bullies and Neon Chrome rather than Flame in the Flood to release on PS4 when in the same week, it released alongside Gravity Rush 2, Resident Evil VII, 2064: Read Only Memories, RWBY: Grim Eclipse, Cursed Castle EX, Fate/EXTELLA.
It's not moving goalpost when my main point is these titles can exist more easily on Switch because it's a less competitive ecosystem for now. For the very same reason some titles could exist easily on PS4 at launch. For the same reason it is for any new platform.
And on top of that, we're back to the begining: We're always lacking concrete data and context. Switch version had the best launch day. Which is a good news, but how did it perform elsewhere ? Did Flame in the Flood performed well on day one or was it in the long run ?
The counterbalance to this is usebase. How many PS4s were there in Jan 2017 vs how many Switches now.
In Jan 2017 PS4 had about 4x the games Switch does now, but it also had about 10x the userbase.
GhostTrick
Banned
Which is why concrete data is important in that case. Userbase has a smaller importance for some niche titles which are usually selling in the same range regardless of userbase. But if it's about a bigger range of sales, than it shows something vastly different. Switch indie title outselling the PS4 SKU which sold over 100k is impressive, since it's about a high number for an indie title, on a console with a smaller userbase. Switch indie title outselling the PS4 SKU which sold less than 5k is more telling about how the game underperformed in the first place.
You are getting really old and tiresome and you are only repeating yourself.
Oceanhorn selling well on Switch thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=248676917&postcount=171
MixedBag "Switch Version of forma.8 most successful one right now" thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=248583533&postcount=82
Switch version of Wonderboy outselling all other versions combined thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=248583359&postcount=239
So basically every time one of these threads gets made you walk in go "NO COMPETITION!" and "Yeah great PR statement but where's the context and data?"
At what point are you going to ask yourself if you're meaningfully contributing to these threads?
Numbers are important although these more general sales statements are nothing but positive indications. That so many varied Switch indies are outperforming targets and other platforms, in an already crowded release schedule, against likeminded releases from big publishers (Sonic Mania, Bomberman R, USF2, etc), as well as Nintendos AAA blockbusters, on a still tiny userbase is nothing but good news. Even without hard numbers.
BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie
Banned
Wow, that is a *lot* of words for something that is incredibly obvious and completely meaningless to the end result of these games doing well and their developers being satisfied with the results.
And that is really only excerpts from 3/4 threads 7 months on from release. Amazing.
GhostTrick
Banned
Wow, it's almost like I was consistent in the point I'm making. How do I contribute to these threads ? By bringing to the discussion and asking about more concrete things. It's interesting that your contribution here has been to move the topic about me.
By the way, I don't know if you did it on purpose or not, but all the posts you quoted basically point out what I'm saying: Concrete data is important to explain a situation. Since the point of these threads is to explain a landscape.
Well as I said, it IS positive news regardless. Why would you want to see my comment as negative ? Although about the crowded release schedule, it's interesting that you put Bomberman R and USF2 there, which are basically low budgeted efforts. Hence my comment about how the schedule isn't crowded, yet.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
very suspect
GhostTrick
Banned
Very suspect indeed to keep wondering about concrete data/numbers.
Are you going to accuse me to have some secret agenda ?
Jonneh3003
Banned
Indeed
How is coming into these threads and going "We need numbers or this is meaningless" when the developers themselves are saying they are happy/pleased/excited about the results productive in any way, shape, or form?
Obviously if we have concrete data it'd be better, but for whatever reason, indies are not allowed to disclose specific numbers, and thus why they can only say if they are happy with sales so far or not. A reasonable person would understand and acknowledge this by now instead of being a broken record, because this is all we're going to get for now, and that's still better than nothing.
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