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The state of NeoGAF

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JordanN

Banned
I mostly lurk on GAF. I love the discussions as well, but c'mon. Lets not even pretend for a second that this place is some shining beacon on a hill when it comes to meaningful respectful and deep discussion. It is largely people posting memes and shit while hopping on the general bandwagon of the week. Same as any other website.

NeoGaf has its own culture.

It's hard to fully explain, especially in a thread that moves fast. But just being angry all the time never got us anywhere.

Even when we were angry at our opponents, people quickly realized it will only grow stale unless we made the conversation cool again.
 
I can't post here in good conscience if the ownership doesn't change.

Without knowing who the current mods are, I'll just leave my request for a permanent ban here.



Change ownership.

Same.

I met a lot of nice people on neogaf, but I cannot post here in good conscience knowing that the ownership isn’t changing after everything that happened.
 
Why are people asking to be banned, as opposed to just not using the site anymore? Are you getting high off the drama or is this a thing that people do.
 

Setzer

Member
This place was so far left and out of touch it was insane to read at times. The gaming side has always been pretty good as long as politics weren't involved, but the OT was a shit show. Many posters were lost due to challenging the far left mentality that has thrived on this forum.

This is why I tried to avoid OT. I wish they would consider adding some sub forums like Movies, TV, and Sports because all those things were jumbled in with all the political bullshit.
 
Honestly, the amount of white people who appropriate minority issues for their own gain being gone is gonna be somewhat fresh.

Got sick and tired of white assholes calling me racist cause I didn't truck with their white bullshit.
 
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
All of this is true. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for this.
 

GashPrex

NeoGaf-Gold™ Member
Eh gaming age forum resets every couple of years anyway - I wonder if this will be another opa split or something else?
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I'm staying here. Lots of stone throwers out there it seems and if people need to dog pile on someone without any evidence whatsover, then by all means, make your dumb ban me thread and go. I want to discuss things with other human beings who can have discussions without resorting to flame attacks that have no merit. If 90% of OT leaves the good riddance.

I'm sticking around too. I know the flak that EviLore is getting but it's an entirely separate matter for me IMO. I know there were banning issues (especially in the OT) and some detective work but I don't associate it with them with what I enjoy doing in the forums: talking about video games. I didn't enjoying seeing political issues spilling over the side of gaming but I screen them out and stick solely to games.
 

Ombra

Member
A lot of people showed their ass when they thought they "won", the most surprising being a Microsoft employee.

glad the forum is finally back.
#Vivaneogaf
 

Lylo

Member
TBH, i just come to GAF for gaming news and discussions, so i won't miss OT, i don't want to get involved or take sides on subjects i'm not confident about, let these things for the courts, Brazil already has many problems i should care about.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
No political discussions allowed is the takeaway from being accused of sexual harassment?

This is quite absurd. Politics are so important. They affect every aspect of our lives. Right now, at this moment in history, as a foreign nation successfully hijacked our presidential election using their own online tactics, as neo-fucking nazis had a huge March and even murdered someone, as the rights of certain segments of our poluation are actively being stripped away, as minorities are being targeted and murdered in the streets by those that are supposed to protect us, as a racist fucking president and his racist fucking cronies sit in the White House, now you want to ban political discourse? Why? Because alt-right assholes online have been getting upset about being banned? Could you imagine the nazi march happening and not being allowed to talk about it? I know political discussion can be a bit of an echo chamber in here and we can definitely work on opening up to other groups and ideas but the alt-right/right basically dominate online discussion forums. They fucking won, and why? Because Tyler got accused of sexual harassment? I can’t tell if you guys are just taking the wrong lesson from all this or this is a way to deflect from it all.

I’ve been coming to this site since the gaming-age days but if this is how we deal with this issue I guess it’s time for me to move on.
 

Trey

Member
As someone who basically 100% stuck to the gaming side, I'm fine with OT being gone, or be specific to things like Fitness, or Comics/Graphic Novels/Manga, etc. I don't think Politics should be on anything but a politics forum/site. I think they're the most polarizing thing you could include in your forum.

I've seen more ugly and childish remarks in console war threads than anything I've seen in a political debate.
 
The future of NeoGAF will be a return to what many of us have come here for, a place where we can gather together and enjoy our shared hobby of video games. For a short time, Off-Topic Discussion and Off-Topic Community will be closed so that we can rediscover that. We'll be starting with a clean slate when they come back. However, the focus will be on the many other hobbies we may have like TV, movies, anime, writing, music, etc. Political and social discourse will not be allowed in the new Off-Topic. Those types of discussions greatly added to the harsh and unwelcoming atmosphere of Off-Topic, which pushed many users away. For those worried: OT has not been deleted, and important threads will be archived for recovery once it's open again.

Moderation will also see changes. Over the years, moderators changed from simply people who made sure discussion stay civil into personalities. It's because of that, many were targeted for harassment and other things. This shouldn't be happening to them. We've taken action to protect these people by making moderation anonymous. There will be no more red-names that single them out nor will there be a list of who is one.

LOL ok, the only reason you're doing this is so the remaining mods can hide in shame since they decided to cast away what little integrity they had left to be Evilore's lapdog for a few more weeks.
 

Alienfan

Member
I'm saying that I don't give a flying fuck to talk about the politics of Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle.

Then don't, don't look at those threads, others want that, denying them that is just making this place even more of an echo chamber.
 
The future of NeoGAF will be a return to what many of us have come here for, a place where we can gather together and enjoy our shared hobby of video games. For a short time, Off-Topic Discussion and Off-Topic Community will be closed so that we can rediscover that. We'll be starting with a clean slate when they come back. However, the focus will be on the many other hobbies we may have like TV, movies, anime, writing, music, etc. Political and social discourse will not be allowed in the new Off-Topic. Those types of discussions greatly added to the harsh and unwelcoming atmosphere of Off-Topic, which pushed many users away.

Moderation will also see changes. Over the years, moderators changed from simply people who made sure discussion stay civil into personalities. It's because of that, many were targeted for harassment and other things. This shouldn't be happening to them. We've taken action to protect these people by making moderation anonymous. There will be no more red-names that single them out nor will there be a list of who is one.

I would argue that part of the problem was that mods here were, more and more, doing a lot more than just making sure discussions stayed civil. NeoGAF has a bit of a reputation for squashing dissent, and I'd argue that the mods here have historically played a role in that.

With that said- I like the changes being proposed, and will be hoping for the best for this community.
 

Gleethor

Member
Hi Tyler.

Look around at the type of people who are celebrating this new direction. Hope you're very happy with your new community. Bye.
 
Happy to see we are back online in some capacity. Im not signing off gaf just yet. Sure there are some atrocious aspects but for the most part its a great all in one place. The communities, the bst, the sports,the secret santa, the give aways, the sales, the news, the leaks, the discussion. All was great. I do think its changed quite a bit since ive been here sadly, but Im looking forward to neo-neogaf. Together we can rebuild it. There will be new members. New gifs. Old members. old memories. Im not going to let some true/false allegations screw it up for everyone even if he owns the site. Should he step down yes. In some capacity at least. But if chipotle can come back from illness and queso, if wallstreet can come back from 2008, gaf can come back. Its the community that made it great in the first place, and it will be great again over time, by people coming together sharing and bonding over their passion for games. From there friendships and OT can bloom together.

Make Neogaf Great Again.

Who's doing the mario odyssey OT thread?

Also, is now a good time to request a name change? Half joking, half serious. More serious though.

Also, i need to discuss fantasy football so can yall just open that one ot thread ;) thanks
 

Ala Alba

Member
Wait, why was my thread on https connection to GAF deleted?

Why can't I connect securely to this site? Why does it force an insecure connection?
 
Sounds like a he said she said type of situation so I will hold my judgement barring any proof from either party. I don't understand removing off topic or politics due to this. The issue was sexual harassment not politics.
 

Alexlf

Member
Eventually, I suppose, we will. :(

Also, as an interesting side-note, if it ends up that NeoGAF can't recover from all this craziness, then another "Neo" site, that also started up in 1999, will have outlasted GAF!

...Neopets. Neopets will outlast GAF.

I'm pretty sure Neopets will exist till the heat death of the universe.
 

Sutanreyu

Member
The beauty and power of feminism has been bastardized to promote highly dysfunctional forms of psychological and physical abuse perpetuated by women. Sexual manipulation for financial gain is promoted as empowerment. Deception is promoted as cunning, and violence against men perpetuated by abusive women is supposed to be endured by men if they want to prove they are ‘good men’. Any righteous anger men express against careless, abusive, destructive females is decried as misogyny and totally disregarded by feminists making it impossible for humanity to address unhealthy attitudes and behavior in our society honestly. If feminism is a celebration of the strength of women how can we also be too fragile to hear the harsh truth about how their behavior impacts the men in their lives?
 

ramuh

Member
I'm sticking around too. I know the flak that EviLore is getting but it's an entirely separate matter for me IMO. I know there were banning issues (especially in the OT) and some detective work but I don't associate it with them with what I enjoy doing in the forums: talking about video games. I didn't enjoying seeing political issues spilling over the side of gaming but I screen them out and stick solely to games.

And even when they bring OT back, I'm hoping that Evilore will recruit strong MODs to support that. It can become a viper pit.

But in general, I'm glad to have refocus man.
 
I can't believe some.people are actually staying after hearing everything. I hope you realize that by staying all your doing is endorsing what the owner of this site has done.

There are other gaming forums out there.

I for one would like to request someone PM me the new site people are moving to. I have reddit and would like something to replace Gaf. I can't support this site anymore.
 

Turok_TTZ

Member
Man, the first few pages of this thread are like a list of the lost.

Frankly, and speaking as a lawyer here, it is not appropriate to discuss allegations while they remain hearsay and open to dispute. However, the allegations arose in a politically heated environment, and were handled badly, and have created a significant amount of rightful distaste among the community. This has travelled to the less generous parts of the web, where it is open season on the community.

Secondly, we are a community, and notwithstanding allegations (rightly or wrongly) against the owner, we have to make a distinction between the owner and the community. For example, I may dislike (to put it mildly) Trump, but I still love America and Americans.

This is GAF, it is a community, and the majority of its members and former mods were decent people having fantastic discourse. It was my go to site for news, gaming and off-topic, and provided me with many smiles, if not loud laughter, thoughts, some challenging but all nourishing, over the years.

It would be a shame to lose this, because there aren't many refuges of enlightened, collegiate, somewhat boisterous, but generally well meant debate and community left on the web. GAF was one of those, and if it passes, in the form we knew, loved, and hated, then something dies.

On a last point of warning, OT needs to be brought back, and the comments about moderating out social and political topics needs to be dropped. A good site, with good moderators, will keep things in line. That is why we came here. The minute a site says that we are incapable of addressing certain topics, and being big boys and girls about it, then that site loses its identity and purpose.

Peace. Chill everyone.

I agree with this post. Pls bring OT back.
 

mikeGFG

Banned
Anyone who continues to use this site with the intention to "talk about video games" is putting ad revenue money in the hands of sexual predator and attempted rapist.

If you willfully aware of that, then you too are complicit in this monstrous cultural abuse of power over all women.

TLDR: Just by being on this site, you are giving a rapist his rent money.
 
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