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[MrToast]

Tyler has posted revenge porn. He’s grabbed someone’s ass in a club (without consent) as a “power move”. And his immediate response to an sexual assault allegation was to ban members and all discussion of it, then immediately shut down a site for 2 days.

Provide the evidence then for all of the above please, from reputable sources and not fake news outlets or gossip corners.

 

[AzureSkies]

said the guy who takes pride in shaking hands with Obama.

wasn't that a wax obama?

 

[Rizzi]

Neogaf has been mostly shit for a while. This was just the catalyst for the death of it.

 

[Skinny Pete]

So no trump threads anymore? Fuck this I’m out.

 

[Memento]

Keeping it concise.

- Deflecting the blame onto the community for 'blowing this out of proportion' is gross.
- There's no excuse for the days of pure silence, especially when comments were made to the press before they were made to the community.
- Shutting down Off-Topic is an absurd idea that does nothing to deal with the issue at hand, and continues to shift blame onto the community with no basis in fact.
- Had EvilLore done the rational thing and stepped away while these accusations were properly investigated, the irreparable damage to this community would have been largely prevented.

Even if these allegations are 'baseless', the response alone is completely unacceptable. As long as this site is so closely tied to one individual that is unwilling to loosen control for the sake of the community's well being, it will always be on thin ice. It's unsustainable.

This.

 

[Island]

So I was mostly a lurker but I have been on this site for over a decade in some capacity. It wasn't until over the weekend that I realized that how much GAF was part of my daily routine.

I am not going to cast judgement (not my place) but I don't know if I am going to stick around.

Trying to find a replacement might be hard, but I don't think this place will be the same ever again.

If anyone has any idea of where everyone is going that would be great. I've heard a few (ResetEra, waypoint, day one patch) but don't want to put down roots just yet.

I think.... I think this is goodbye GAF.

 

[ramuh]

Agreed, but I also want to note that this whole fiasco, the Amirox thing, and the general echo chamber, hivemind extremist nonsense was something management fostered to life.

Even if he ends up being innocent, Evilore made some seriously horrible decisions on how to run and operate this place.

And that is the thing. I think even with him owning this site, I can say that he probably made some stupendous mistakes in handling some aspects of this forum. I hope and pray that this kind of discourse can be allowed.

And hopefully cull the toxic part of this community,

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Taking you at your word on this, would the solution not then be to improve them instead of just entirely getting rid of them? How is just nuking it in any way a logical response? That seems to be a problem of moderation, not the content itself.

I don't believe they're gone forever.

I imagine they're gone until the virtue signalling, struggle appropriating white people have moved on to their next struggle to co-opt for their own performative feel good bullshit.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Anyone know if tizoc is sticking around?

He really introduced Tons of indies to people

 

[pixelation]

The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.

This needs to be quoted again until Evilore reads it, i really hope he does and changes his mind. Otherwise GAF will become but a mere shadow of what it was and what it meant to a lot of us.

 

[Croatoan]

I hope Evilore realizes how dangerous courting either extreme of the political spectrum is now. The regressive left, which had GAF in a stranglehold, has turned on him over an accusation because their belief system forces them too. They have abandoned gaf to virtue signal to others in their cult that they are good allies.

On the other hand the alt right is basically stirring this shit pot for lulz.

Both groups are reprehensible, it's better for GAF to chase the patronage of the sane moderates. With the new rules it seems Evilore is on the right track.

Here is to many more years of gaf!

 

[Phased]

I, a person of color, was called a racist by white kids for not being hot on Kamala Harris.


The OT threads were garbage for garbage people.

It's very telling the way some of these OT regulars are suiciding their accounts. That's the community that is going elsewhere, good riddance. Hard to see it as anything but an improvement.

If you're not 110% with them you're 100% against them and there's no room for middle ground. It made the entire place hard to go to unless you filtered out a whole list of keywords like 'Trump, White House, Nazi, Sanders, Clinton, racist' among others.

 

[jimmypython]

PoliGaf is where I get all the meaningful discussions on the issues. Comparing to outside, it was pretty tolerable.

Any suggestion for alternative?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Man, people like this taking this as a victory is just making me want to leave more. I don't care for your shitty ideological diversity when hatred is the ideology that's being suppressed.

He's already banned. Again, if the moderation is up to par I don't see how this place will be worse than before if OT is up again in some form. People acting like the mods are alt-right now are just shitflinging. OT was a mess in a lot of ways, I hope it can be revived in a decent manner.

 

[Trey]

I am willing to bet that 99% of the "look at me!" account suicides are Millennials. Good Lord, children, no one likes your Instagram dinner pictures and no one cares that you are leaving.

Millennials are the largest gaming demographic by far, so yeah, probably.

 

[WGMBY]

I love GAF, but after all this, I can't come back here as long as EvilLore still runs it. His response, both here and in the an article on VICE, seems to me to be an exercise in shifting blame to anyone and everyone. I just don't believe his explanations.

It's shitty, I was looking forward to talking Destiny 2 PC and Mario Oddessey here. I'll be back the moment EL is gone, so assumong that never happens, I'll just say good by and good luck everyone. I love you all.

 

[Zaventem]

You fucked up big time. Banned anyone for doubting the sexual assault or rape of a female even if those doubts had legitimate criticism and that has comeback to bite you hard unfortunately. You took days to make a response and then you decided to delete the OT forum, non of this paints you in a good light even if the accuser stated she never wanted to ruin your life.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Everything about this is sad. I've been part of this community for over a decade and that's what it is - a community. And although this community was founded around videogames it became so much more than that. Please do whatever you can to salvage what it was.

The large majority of this community genuinely cared about advancing the interests of the weak and powerless to make the world a better place. If that spirit is shoved to the side to avoid discussing important developments in the world this place will no longer be the community I came to love. Please consider that when the time comes to re-open the off-topic board.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

That is definitely the opinion that a lot people had outside of the neogaf, when it was down the internet was filled with more joy than anything.

But the google autofilled is done via your searches, just saying.

That's not exactly how these autofills work. I'll say I fucking hate the term SJW and I get the exact same results

 

[FreezeSSC]

I originally came here 10 years ago for gaming but since I'm in my 30's now and dont game as often I came here for the OT and OT community. Really liked lurking the programming threads, poligaf, and reading whatever the topic of the day was on the OT, it was nice to read a tightly moderated forum where all that GG was filtered out. Oh well guess Ill be more productive at work.

 

[RastaMentality]

thank you for responding in a timely manner, tyler

i was beginning to think the forum was gone forever

 

[prag16]

Sure, OT may return, but it won't be the same.

In a lot of ways, that's a good thing. No, not every way. But sometimes you have to cut off the finger to save the hand.

Some of you guys are ridiculous. I never thought I'd be defending Evilore. You might say the monster he created has turned on him.

 

[D4Danger]

Provide the evidence then for all of the above please, from reputable sources and not fake news outlets or gossip corners.

fuck me this is the future, isn't it?

absolute trash

 

[Sàmban]

I won't make a decision just yet; still waiting to see what happens to GAF once the fires die down. There is some truth to the notion that GAF had become a bit of a liberal echochamber for a while now so I hope it finds the right balance instead of overcorrecting and catering to the gamergaters/alt-right types.

I will say that Tyler's statement, along with the comments on that Vice article, are really fucking bad. I can definitely understand that the situation with this girl was more complicated than it seems, given that they slept together well after the incident. But this could have been handled so much better. We'll see what happens.

Bring back the OT though, otherwise OT stuff will bleed into the gaming side.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I, a person of color, was called a racist by white kids for not being hot on Kamala Harris.


The OT threads were garbage for garbage people.

Ding Ding Ding. I hope all of these faux outrage people that just were out for drama and calling other people out are gone to other places now.

 

[AmFreak]

An allegation of sexual misconduct has been made against me by an ex. It's not true, the individual making the accusation isn't credible, the story doesn't reconcile logically with the facts, and there's plenty of evidence and witnesses to corroborate that. It'll be a process.

So to make this clear.
The shower thing never happened?

 

[Ombra]

Thanks for the statement. I hope the allegations about you are not true, but if they are, it’s not defensible.

I’m glad you are attempting to remove the politics, and I hope I can use this to just talk about games and the love we have for them. Like many of us ONLY come here to do.

Fuck that I can't wait till the pruning of these /pol moonlighters begins and Off Topic returns.


Gaf was never a democracy but people take free speech to extremes where it does not apply.

Every other large political forum besides neogaf has members who racial slurs and rape jokes ad naseum. It says a lot that off topic didn't devolve onto /pol with edgy man children injecting Hitler did nothing wrong into random threads for the meme lulz. Those kind of people HATE gaf because that shit never flew here.

I am really looking forward to not having to read anymore salty alt right 4chan alumni butthurt that gaf isn't dead and

 

[SuoGrey]

Nice photoshop.

Except that it's not. lol

 

[HariKari]

Even if it does come back, its topics will be limited and so many people have left...

Sure, OT may return, but it won't be the same.

Given the heavy handed tone policing that was going on, even by regular members, OT will be better off.

 

[JayBabay]

Here's the thing, not everyone on GAF shares that sentiment. There were plenty of very vocal members who were quite diligent in their dogpiling and thought policing anyone with a dissenting opinion, or vehemently attacking those for being impure in their purchasing habits (like what you're mentioning) BUT GAF has an incredibly large amount of members who didn't partake in these things. You probably didn't notice these members (like me lol) because we typically didn't interfere in these discussions as we knew where they would lead and how it would be viewed by some moderators (even the most harmless of posts such as "that's a ridiculous way to look at things"). A lot of us here remain to partake in quite innocuous discussions about harmless things with friends we've made through this forum.

With that said, yeah I didn't like the way the Amirox thing was handled either but me logging in to see if someone in the Marvel thread had info on new DLC characters doesn't mean I'm team NAMBLA. When people grow up, they will realize the real world doesn't exist in mere absolutes.

I agree with you 100%. There are a lot of logical and rational people on here who know better than to engage in those types of discussions because your immediately categorized and dog piled, then banned. I don’t have time to deal with being quoted 100 times then have to backtrack and find myself against a wall for not going 100/100 same viewpoint. It’s 0 or 100 so I’ll just stick to games and at least keep my voice.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Back to KTT I go, I see.

 

[ZeoVGM]

The social and political threads consumed the forum and destroyed OT. What GAF should do is create a separate forum for people who did want to talk about that stuff. Leave the OT for normal conversation.

So basically, bury your head in the sand because you don't want to see subjects (that you aren't forced to click) related to the realities of today's world.

 

[jacobeid]

What a fucking piece of shit statement from a seeming piece of shit man. Wow. Fuck all of that statement.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

I have to say I'm not sure how I felt to think GAF could be gone for good.
And I'm not sure how I feel about what has gone down.
Gaming was what I was here for and I'm going to enjoy it while it's here.
What will be will be in the end.

GAF will live or die based on what community is here

 

[MrToast]

I believe victims. I don't believe your rapey ass.

How do you know he isn't a victim himself of a false story?

 

[MarionCB]

No Off-Topic, and having political and social discussion banned upon its return, makes me very unhappy. That's what I was mostly here for. I refute the idea these discussions were toxic. I'm very disappointed to hear about these changes, and cannot see myself spending much time here going on.

 

[ramuh]

I, a person of color, was called a racist by white kids for not being hot on Kamala Harris.


The OT threads were garbage for garbage people.

And that is reprehensible. Hopefully that person was banned. The color of your skin shouldn't dictate your likes or dislikes.

 

[Yukinari]

Provide the evidence then for all of the above please, from reputable sources and not fake news outlets or gossip corners.

Go to google

Type evilore ass grab.

Educate yourself.

 

[Dehumanizer]

Oh yeah, also here's a little bonus for ya'll.

This will be a good cleaning to this forum. Off topic was extremely toxic

 

[Deleted member 80556]

fuck me this is the future, isn't it?

absolute trash

There are people posting "Ta ta snowflake" as response to criticism as account suicide. Of course this is the future.

 

[Bsigg12]

The ads that are popping up on mobile right now are too much 😂😂😂

 

[Sixfortyfive]

It was standard operating procedure for these idiots for years with the help of certain mods. Witchhunting with zero evidence was a daily sport in the Off-topic.

Yeah, it could get pretty awful.

I can distinctly remember at least one major instance of this forum accepting and perpetuating false rape allegations without thought and attacking anyone who dared suggest that maybe it would be more prudent to wait for more details. And then there were absolutely no repercussions against the mob once it came out later that it was all hogwash.

Even though I'm rolling my eyes at how Evilore is handling this hot mess, I don't really feel the need to flaunt my supposed moral authority over situations I don't yet know anything about.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's absurd to blame OT if Evilore had no problems of using off topic themes for his own advantage.

 

[Represent.]

Dudes, getting rid of OT, even temporarily, is not the right decision. Getting rid of political discussion, is a horrible idea.

Create a separate forum for politics if you must, but dont axe it all together. Its a sign of weakness.

Fucking hell, if people cant talk about politics without other people getting offended or having their feelings hurt then so be it, feelings will be hurt. Do not get rid of it, its dumb.

 

[Jimbone]

I hope this place burns to the ground permanently. It should never have came back up. The owner is a goblin looking idiot and this community is nothing more than a bunch of dweebs bitching about sub-60 fps. NeoGAF is dead

 

[mavo]

That's not exactly how these autofills work. I'll say I fucking hate the term SJW and I get the exact same results

I get "cancer/toxic/garbage/israel" lol.

 

[MrToast]

fuck me this is the future, isn't it?

absolute trash

If you can't provide evidence, then like I've said before to others, he deserves a second chance, some of us have done worse.

 

[Revas]

SO suave.



? No....

I thought that you might be agreeing with the gentleman you quoted. No worries.

 

[Punchpudding]

Not sure what will happen to GAF politically but the indie dev threads and anything about indie games are great.

 

[giga]

thank you for responding in a timely manner, tyler

i was beginning to think the forum was gone forever

"Timely manner"