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[vaibhavpisal]

I mean Polyphony Digital is still one of the biggest deals in SIE and they just made one of the biggest PS5 games entirely playable in VR....

Will we see Naughty Dog do a VR game? Maybe maybe not. They're doing a multiplayer game. I think as the studios expand, you'll see them dabble more and more in VR if they want.

GT7 is a step in right direction.

But it's also a fairly straightforward work. Limited interactivity and just a couple of control points within a car.

Also that Horizon VR game looks to be not a full fledged AAA title. They should have ported Horizon Forbidden West with full interactivity with everything in game world to show seriousness.

 

[Lasha]

As genius as Carmack is, this just comes across as sniping from the sides.

He spent getting on for a decade working on VR and it's... not really taken off at all. I think he's a bit bitter about that, whether he admits it or not.

Complaining about the price, while valid, is a poor argument. It's on the cheaper side for the specs you get, both for PSVR2 and the PS5. An equivalent PC setup would cost more.

PS5 + PSVR2 puts it in the same enthusiast ballpark as a quest and a PC. GT7 looks great. 500$ for the console, 450 for the headset, 80$ for the game, then 60$ per year to play it online is already pushing 1,100$ to 1,200$. Its really not far off building a PC that can run the big VR racing sims. I think thats the comparison he is getting at.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

GT7 is a step in right direction.

But it's also a fairly straightforward work. Limited interactivity and just a couple of control points within a car.

Also that Horizon VR game looks to be not a full fledged AAA title. They should have ported Horizon Forbidden West with full interactivity with everything in game world to show seriousness.

It’s not nearly as straightforward as you claim

They had to build the entire game originally with VR in mind

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PS5 + PSVR2 puts it in the same enthusiast ballpark as a quest and a PC. GT7 looks great. 500$ for the console, 450 for the headset, 80$ for the game, then 60$ per year to play it online is already pushing 1,100$ to 1,200$. Its really not far off building a PC that can run the big VR racing sims. I think thats the comparison he is getting at.

A gaming rig PC + Quest is going to cost over $2k, over double the cost of PSVR2 + PS5

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It’s not nearly as straightforward as you claim

They had to build the entire game originally with VR in mind

Am comparing it to something like Half Life Alyx.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Am comparing it to something like Half Life Alyx.

Alyx is an FPS and GT7 is a racer, not comparable really, both are as AAA as you can get

Same with RE8 or Horizon

 

[Fredrik]

I mean Polyphony Digital is still one of the biggest deals in SIE and they just made one of the biggest PS5 games entirely playable in VR....

Will we see Naughty Dog do a VR game? Maybe maybe not. They're doing a multiplayer game. I think as the studios expand, you'll see them dabble more and more in VR if they want.

GT7 is a year old and it’s not like everyone suddenly think the racing genre is the best genre. It’s not even enough for launch.
And the ”dabble more” is the whole problem. VR don’t need more B-teams doing experimental AA or indie titles, sometimes the only thing that is actually needed to break through the bubble is new big budget exclusive AAA games in the main game series people love or new IPs you just can’t get anywhere else. It’s essentially the AA Gamepass titles versus AAA Sony exclusives scenario. Sony need to treat PSVR2 as well as they treat PS5.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Alyx is an FPS and GT7 is a racer, not comparable really,

Yes, they chose easy game to port.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes, they chose easy game to port.

Huh?

If they hadn’t developed it with VR to begin with it wouldn’t have been “easy”

 

[Admerer]

Well, yeah. It requires a 500-dollar console and a 500+ dollar VR set.

That's a lot of money for a gimmick experience.

That's the whole point, it's not a gimmicky experience.
Great vr hardware (minus wireless), tight integration with PS5 console hardware and leading software developers ( Sony first party) = potential for best VR experience around.

However, if you feel that VR as a whole is a gimmick, then there is not much Sony can do to please you, is there?

 

[CrustyBritches]

Sadly, VR is going to be niche for a long long time, the VR industry might even collapse within a couple years. It feels like nobody in charge understand what’s needed - AAA games from the A-teams at the AAA studios, comfortable headsets with long battery life that you can pick up and use without hurdles.
A low price is nice but that’s not why people stop using it. It’s always the lack of AAA games and uncomfortable usage that makes people use it as a niche peripheral and not as their main gaming platform. Plus, the isolated experience and motion sickness issues will never go away.

This is definitely true. With flatlander gaming you can chill on a couch with full awareness of your surroundings while you chat with somebody near you and occasionally check your phone, or grab a bite to eat. Sure, with high quality color passthrough you could replicate that, but we're not quite there yet, and if you're simulating a big screen TV then it begs the question...why? Most people already have real life with a big TV.

The motion sickness is a big deal, too. Most people would vomit their guts out if they tried to play something like Spider-Man, or even Halo in VR. It takes time to get VR legs. Otherwise the game is going to be built around the constraints of teleport mode or stationary gameplay. Which is why stuff like RE works so well since it's slower paced and can work with teleport. Free roam movement without VR legs can destroy your life. Outside of sims like driving and flying, it's hard to replicate most AAA games with a high level of comfort for VR newbies.

Then there's the issue of fatigue just from wearing the helmet and being in VR so long. I always bring it up, but I played Demeo for over 2hrs and when I took the helmet off it was like coming up out of long shift in a coal mine. People really want AAA game experiences where you drop hours experiencing all sorts of pressure on your equilibrium and strain on your eyes and neck? Seems like we're still 2 gens away from glasses/goggle VR headsets.

All that being said, I still love VR. Ironically, what got me into it was Beat Saber that a friend recommended we play together. In my experience short arcade-like experiences are great, especially at parties. It's like the Wii 2.0. People call for traditional AAA experiences, but outside the hardened VR sea dogs with VR legs of steel, can they even handle it?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

GT7 is a year old and it’s not like everyone suddenly think the racing genre is the best genre. It’s not even enough for launch.
And the ”dabble more” is the whole problem. VR don’t need more B-teams doing experimental AA or indie titles, sometimes the only thing that is actually needed to break through the bubble is new big budget exclusive AAA games in the main game series people love or new IPs you just can’t get anywhere else. It’s essentially the AA Gamepass titles versus AAA Sony exclusives scenario. Sony need to treat PSVR2 as well as they treat PS5.

Not sure what the age has against GT7. It has a built in userbase who have a free VR upgarde. People who have full GT7 rigs could very easily throw an extra 550 towards VR.

Firesprite is a B team by the standards of PlayStation, but they've made a AAA game that by the looks of it puts most VR games to shame.

Media Molecule doing Dreams in VR could also be a big thing.

My point is that you've got to really open your mind to what a roadmap could look like.

They could also use PSVR2 to drive PS+ subscribership by putting VR games on the premium tier.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

GT7 is a step in right direction.

But it's also a fairly straightforward work. Limited interactivity and just a couple of control points within a car.

Also that Horizon VR game looks to be not a full fledged AAA title. They should have ported Horizon Forbidden West with full interactivity with everything in game world to show seriousness.

How does it not look like a full-fledged AAA title? I think you've got to understand how VR differs from stand-alone gaming.

 

[Lasha]

A gaming rig PC + Quest is going to cost over $2k, over double the cost of PSVR2 + PS5

A top of the line rig sure. A rig that is equivalent to a PS5 is significantly cheaper. A PC that can play the major sims online is even less. You only need a 970/1080 to play iRacing, Asseto Corsa, or Dirt Rally. A 2070/3060 is going to be more than enough.

 

[gothmog]

I think he is looking at it from a developer cost perspective. Localisation and distribution.

Meh. Sony is set up for this kind of shit. Meta doesn't have that history.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

A top of the line rig sure. A rig that is equivalent to a PS5 is significantly cheaper. A PC that can play the major sims online is even less. You only need a 970/1080 to play iRacing, Asseto Corsa, or Dirt Rally. A 2070/3060 is going to be more than enough.

Show me the receipts

You are also discounting console efficiencies and foveated rendering allowing consoles to perform well above an equivalent PC spec

 

[Crayon]

PS5 + PSVR2 puts it in the same enthusiast ballpark as a quest and a PC. GT7 looks great. 500$ for the console, 450 for the headset, 80$ for the game, then 60$ per year to play it online is already pushing 1,100$ to 1,200$. Its really not far off building a PC that can run the big VR racing sims. I think thats the comparison he is getting at.

Wow that is a fat stretch. A ps5 and a psvr 2 is $950. If you want a pc that is going to drive those kind of graphics, it's going to have to do it without the benefit of foveated rendering and it's going to cost a chunk more than $950. That's before you pick up a $400 quest that (c'mon now) is no psvr2.

The market for hi end headsets is basically limited to enterprise right now. $1000 4 year old index is still the gold standard for gaming. Psvr2 is the most exciting thing in vr right now because it's as good or better than anything out yet a ps5 AND a vr2 is downright cheap for this kind of thing.

Edit: VVVV only $450 more for worse performance. Brilliant.

 

[Lasha]

Show me the receipts

You are also discounting console efficiencies and foveated rendering allowing consoles to perform well above an equivalent PC spec

This is a prebuilt from alocal shop with a 3060 that will be fine for VR racing:



S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST. That works out to around US$1,000 without tax. Building it yourself would be slightly cheaper. 400$ for the quest 2. You could technically go cheaper since older headsets still work but we can consider quest. The games themselves are cheap. A key for AC is around $5.

$1,405 pretax leaves you with a solid mid-range PC that can play practically every game on the market and a good wireless VR headset which also has its own library of games. Its also a PC so you can park some of the cost on general PC usage since most households need some form of computer.

$1,100 pretax gets you a PS5, a proprietary wired headset, and a single game. You will also need to top up nearly the price of a full game annually to fully utilize all of its functionality.

The question isn't "is PSVR good?". GT7 looks phenomenal and the tech is cool. Carmack has doubts over PSVR2's adoption rate because of its price. The biggest benefit of PS5/XSX is getting 2070/2080 performance for like $500. PSVR strays from that tradeoff. The entry price puts it above an impulse purchase for casual people and into the bracket where enthusiasts will have other options to consider.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This is a prebuilt from alocal shop with a 3060 that will be fine for VR racing:



S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST. That works out to around US$1,000 without tax. Building it yourself would be slightly cheaper. 400$ for the quest 2. You could technically go cheaper since older headsets still work but we can consider quest. The games themselves are cheap. A key for AC is around $5.

$1,405 pretax leaves you with a solid mid-range PC that can play practically every game on the market and a good wireless VR headset which also has its own library of games. Its also a PC so you can park some of the cost on general PC usage since most households need some form of computer.

$1,100 pretax gets you a PS5, a proprietary wired headset, and a single game. You will also need to top up nearly the price of a full game annually to fully utilize all of its functionality.

The question isn't "is PSVR good?". GT7 looks phenomenal and the tech is cool. Carmack has doubts over PSVR2's adoption rate because of its price. The biggest benefit of PS5/XSX is getting 2070/2080 performance for like $500. PSVR strays from that tradeoff. The entry price puts it above an impulse purchase for casual people and into the bracket where enthusiasts will have other options to consider.

What am I missing? $1500 for a PC + $400 for a Quest 2 is what I said before, double the cost of psvr2 and a ps5

An 8% tax makes it close to $1400 pre-tax, not $1000, so around $1800 vs $950

 

[Lasha]

What am I missing? $1500 for a PC + $400 for a Quest 2 is what I said before, double the cost of psvr2 and a ps5

An 8% tax makes it close to $1400 pre-tax, not $1000, so around $1800 vs $950

You're missing reading comprehension. I removed the tax and converted it to USD for you since Americans compare prices without tax whereas its illegal to advertise price without tax in most of the world.

 

[dotnotbot]

If Sony had some kind of step down model like Series S that would come bundled with VR2, that would probably help a lot with sales.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You're missing reading comprehension. I removed the tax and converted it to USD for you since Americans compare prices without tax whereas its illegal to advertise price without tax in most of the world.

The post shows it in USD and you claimed it was an 8% tax

1,000x1.08 = $1,080

Sounds like you don’t know how to write clearly. If there’s some sort of currency exchange going on, what is it? Your image shows it in USD

 

[Crayon]

If Sony had some kind of step down model like Series S that would come bundled with VR2, that would probably help a lot with sales.

Oh no no. ps5 digital is 400. So saving $100 off a $950 bundle by lopping off a huge amount of performance sounds like an awful deal.

 

[Three]

You're missing reading comprehension. I removed the tax and converted it to USD for you since Americans compare prices without tax whereas its illegal to advertise price without tax in most of the world.

Just link to the store instead of an image. What you're saying makes no sense, how did what I assume to be US$1485 become US$1000 pretax?

S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST. That works out to around US$1,000 without tax.

 

[Lasha]

The post shows it in USD and you claimed it was an 8% tax

1,000x1.08 = $1,080

Sounds like you don’t know how to write clearly

The screenshot is from a shopping cart from a Singaporean shop. The first line of my post says "S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST". I did you the courtesy of removing the 8% tax and converting it to USD. Its simple math...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The screenshot is from a shopping cart from a Singaporean shop. The first line of my post says "S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST". I did you the courtesy of removing the 8% tax and converting it to USD. Its simple math...

Okay so I need to move to Singapore to get a deal like this?

 

[CrustyBritches]

I'm getting $828 for Ryzen 3600+3060Ti rig, or $888 for Ryzen 5600+3060Ti. With 16GB DDR4 3200, 1TB NVMe(3400MB/s|3000MB/s). 3060Ti is like 3-5% faster than a 2080 Super. Quest 2 128GB+Resident Evil 4 is $349-$399, Quest 2 256GB+Resident Evil 4 is $429. That's $1,178-1,288 for the 128GB+RE4, or $1,258-1,318 for the 256GB+RE4.

PSVR2+PS5DE(The hardest to find PS5) = $950. PSVR2+PS5 = $1,050. PSVR2+Call of the Mountain bundle+PS5 = $1,100.

You're not getting a standalone+wireless PCVR set with the PSVR2, either.

 

[Lasha]

Okay so I need to move to Singapore to get a deal like this?

Not at all. We pay inflated prices for everything here because of location, rent, and middlemen. That is also a pre-built which means additional margin is baked in. US price will be about the same except you can probably get slightly more ram or top up to get a 3060TI for around the same price.

 

[Crayon]

I'm getting $828 for Ryzen 3600+3060Ti rig, or $888 for Ryzen 5600+3060Ti. With 16GB DDR4 3200, 1TB NVMe(3400MB/s|3000MB/s). 3060Ti is like 3-5% faster than a 2080 Super. Quest 2 128GB+Resident Evil 4 is $349-$399, Quest 2 256GB+Resident Evil 4 is $429. That's $1,178-1,288 for the 128GB+RE4, or $1,258-1,318 for the 256GB+RE4.

PSVR2+PS5DE(The hardest to find PS5) = $950. PSVR2+PS5 = $1,050. PSVR2+Call of the Mountain bundle+PS5 = $1,100.

You're not getting a standalone+wireless PCVR set with the PSVR2, either.

That's more money for a worse headset (wider fov, oled, halo mount) and I don't think we are going to see vr graphics like horizon or gt on that 3060ti anytime soon.

That is still a great vr setup tho. People say pcvr is dead but the vr mods make it amazing. If I was looking to get into vr from zero I wouldn't necessarily brush off that setup even though the psvr has that value advantage.

 

[gothmog]

Why are we doing PC part picker lists in this thread?

 

[Lasha]

Why are we doing PC part picker lists in this thread?

Because the console brigade asked for receipts?

 

[Moses85]

This is cheaper and better spec'ed than the Index.

But Index has Alyx

 

[Lasha]

That's more money for a worse headset (wider fov, oled, halo mount) and I don't think we are going to see vr graphics like horizon or gt on that 3060ti anytime soon.

That is still a great vr setup tho. People say pcvr is dead but the vr mods make it amazing. If I was looking to get into vr from zero I wouldn't necessarily brush off that setup even though the psvr has that value advantage.

I think it would be close. A 3060TI gets around 60FPS on FH5 maxed out at 4k and around 100FPS at 1440p. The new FM will provide a better data point since its easier to render a circuit than a full world.

I don't think you can go wrong with either a PC or PSVR. I agree with Carmack that the price seems steep enough to halt adoption since you begin to have choices once you start heading north of a grand. A slightly worse but still fully servicable headset can be a good compromise for access to both the PC and Quest libraries.

 

[Fredrik]

They could also use PSVR2 to drive PS+ subscribership by putting VR games on the premium tier.

Now THAT would be a great move. A dedicated VR category, could try out the day 1 strategy and throw in the whole library in there for the Premium tier and see what happens.

But as it is right now I think it’ll be the same old broken waiting game as with any other new platform. The masses are waiting for games and the publishers are waiting for the masses. And a tight group of enthusiasts will jump in early and think it’s the best thing since sliced bread but will drop out eventually because of lack of AAA games and get old and cranky like me.

 

[CrustyBritches]

That's more money for a worse headset (wider fov, oled, halo mount) and I don't think we are going to see vr graphics like horizon or gt on that 3060ti anytime soon.

That is still a great vr setup tho. People say pcvr is dead but the vr mods make it amazing. If I was looking to get into vr from zero I wouldn't necessarily brush off that setup even though the psvr has that value advantage.

That may be true about some aspects like res or hdr, but there's also value in the Quest 2 having standalone+wireless capability and built-in speakers. 3060Ti in flatlander games is probably faster on average in most games. Not sure how VR will pan out. Might get an idea when comparing No Man's Sky.

However, PS5 is a bargain for the performance it provides. PSVR2 is looking like a great headset. Keep in mind Quest 2 came out like 2.5yrs. ago. I saw newer, higher res headsets like Reverb G2 on sale during Black Friday for around $300, so there are other options. Should be noted you would have to build this PC compared to the PS5 being turnkey. GPUs are stupid expensive now. I'm not really holding out hope for the 4060, 4060Ti, or 4070 either. Just wanted to post to give an idea of an affordable Quest 2+PCVR setup that would give you good bang-for-buck.

Last thing I'll mention is that I bought a Quest 2 for $299 in 2020. I have a halo headstrap with battery I bought for $45. Some nice grips for $15. Chromecast for $29. Got the free VR cover replacement face cushion. That's about $390 on the hardware and accessories for years of entertainment in games like Beat Saber, RE4VR, Gun Club, Demeo, Blade and Sorcery, Premium Bowling, etc. Then SideQuest games like Team Beef's QuestZDoom and Quake 3. Also, QuestCraft standalone version of MineCraft. All this with ability to cleanly stream to the TV at parties. Some awesome shit on a VR setup you can fit into a plastic grocery bag and easily bring and setup anywhere.

 

[Lasha]

Now THAT would be a great move. A dedicated VR category, could try out the day 1 strategy and throw in the whole library in there for the Premium tier and see what happens.

But as it is right now I think it’ll be the same old broken waiting game as with any other new platform. The masses are waiting for games and the publishers are waiting for the masses. And a tight group of enthusiasts will jump in early and think it’s the best thing since sliced bread but will drop out eventually because of lack of AAA games and get old and cranky like me.

I'm with you guys up until the premium tier. Sony would be better served putting a VR selection on the base tier of PS+. Kind of like a paid version of the instant collection that was offered at launch.

 

[acidagfc]

i feel like people are looking past the fact that PS has 0 access to porn or porn games. I see a bunch of people on my steam friends using the DeoVR video player and those are the people without the shame to appear offline lol.

Who needs porn, when you can have GT7 Showroom?

Look at those stupid sexy Ferraris! Just look at them! Climb down on your knees, look from below. Smell that exhaust pipe, mmmm...
Ehem, what were we talking about?

 

[Thebonehead]

You psvr2 players.. A fool and his money are easily parted........

Now Let me get back to playing vampire survivor's on my $1600 4090.

In seriousness I wouldn't buy this for my ps5 as I already use pc vr. That's unless it gets some form of PC compatibility, in which case it'd probably replace my reverb g2.

 

[pasterpl]

It is rather quite simple, PSVR sold approx 5 million units across 116 million ps4 users, so the attach rate was 4.31%. If we even estimate attachment rate of 8% for psvr that gives us 2.56 million units sold, if the attach rate will remain unchanged at stays at 4.31% this means 1.37 million units sold. I believe, historically psvr sold quite well in the first year reaching 1 million units but then slow down. All above based on 32 millions ps5 sales number.

The question is how much 3rd party AAA support it will receive when the audience size is couple million users.

 

[mxbison]

Well, yeah. It requires a 500-dollar console and a 500+ dollar VR set.

That's a lot of money for a gimmick experience.

It's not that bad for people who understand the tech and know it's not a gimmick.

 

[PeteBull]

So basically, Carmack is arguing that the PSVR2's price will kill it, alone or with you having to buy a PS5 console with it, regardless.

He is also arguing that the 30(now 32) million sales figure of the PS5 itself is not actually impressive, and doesn't mean much for VR, and says a targeted success would be better for VR and developers than a wide global spread.

Nope, both conclusions of urs are wrong, he is simply saying VR marker is such a small niche that its not profitable to make bigger budget/longer games for it atm, and he is 100% right, no dev/pubs will take the risk when best case scenario they lose a bit(when basically every psvr2 user buys their game), and worst case scenario or rather realistically when 20-30% of ppl who will have it only buy their game- they lose mountain of cash.

Edit:
U got even proof right there in new GoWR sales, fricken 11milion of copies at 70fricken bucks, coz 1)game is splendid, and 2) it has 117,2m ps4 userbase and 36m+ ps5 userbase(both official numbers of sold trough consoles) to sell to, even if "only" 1/5th of ppl buy the game its ginourmous success already, and ps5 instal base will grow bigger quickly, so potential for another 11m sales is there ;D

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Pffft.
I will play GT7 VR no matter what they say. It's amazing headset with amazing games.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is a prebuilt from alocal shop with a 3060 that will be fine for VR racing:



S$1,485 delivered inclusive of 8% GST. That works out to around US$1,000 without tax. Building it yourself would be slightly cheaper. 400$ for the quest 2. You could technically go cheaper since older headsets still work but we can consider quest. The games themselves are cheap. A key for AC is around $5.

$1,405 pretax leaves you with a solid mid-range PC that can play practically every game on the market and a good wireless VR headset which also has its own library of games. Its also a PC so you can park some of the cost on general PC usage since most households need some form of computer.

$1,100 pretax gets you a PS5, a proprietary wired headset, and a single game. You will also need to top up nearly the price of a full game annually to fully utilize all of its functionality.

The question isn't "is PSVR good?". GT7 looks phenomenal and the tech is cool. Carmack has doubts over PSVR2's adoption rate because of its price. The biggest benefit of PS5/XSX is getting 2070/2080 performance for like $500. PSVR strays from that tradeoff. The entry price puts it above an impulse purchase for casual people and into the bracket where enthusiasts will have other options to consider.

While I see and understand where you are coming from, I can't help but be irked by these kinda subjective comparisons. The monetary tag or value is entirely subjective and is never as black and white as most make them out to be. And when people start pushing this very narrative, everything just gets skewed.

I mean, why buy a PC like that? You can build a PC with used parts for around half that price? Or you could be building a PC that happens to have a 4090 in it that cost three PS5s on the GPU alone. Or is every PS5 $499? You can buy a used PS5, or just go digital, or wait for the inevitable price drop and picks PS5 up at $299 sometime in the future....etc.

The way I see it, is that PSVR2... does not cost $1k+, any more than anyone buying a 4090 (or any PC GPU for that matter), costs over $3k because they added the cost of every other component to building the PC to that of the GPU.

The PSVR2 cost $550. It's something only someone that has a PS5, would go out and buy. As a peripheral very same way I would go out and buy a racing wheel and cockpit and be spending over $1k on that just to pay GT7 on a PS5.

I believe that at the end of the day, PSVR2, and any VR tech for that matter... sinks or swims based on the software available. like every single gaming platform or device on the planet.

 

[Tams]

PS5 + PSVR2 puts it in the same enthusiast ballpark as a quest and a PC. GT7 looks great. 500$ for the console, 450 for the headset, 80$ for the game, then 60$ per year to play it online is already pushing 1,100$ to 1,200$. Its really not far off building a PC that can run the big VR racing sims. I think thats the comparison he is getting at.

 

[Tams]

It is rather quite simple, PSVR sold approx 5 million units across 116 million ps4 users, so the attach rate was 4.31%. If we even estimate attachment rate of 8% for psvr that gives us 2.56 million units sold, if the attach rate will remain unchanged at stays at 4.31% this means 1.37 million units sold. I believe, historically psvr sold quite well in the first year reaching 1 million units but then slow down. All above based on 32 millions ps5 sales number.

The question is how much 3rd party AAA support it will receive when the audience size is couple million users.

That's assuming a linear relationship, which in business is almost always not the case.

 

[Fredrik]

The motion sickness is a big deal, too. Most people would vomit their guts out if they tried to play something like Spider-Man, or even Halo in VR. It takes time to get VR legs. Otherwise the game is going to be built around the constraints of teleport mode or stationary gameplay. Which is why stuff like RE works so well since it's slower paced and can work with teleport. Free roam movement without VR legs can destroy your life. Outside of sims like driving and flying, it's hard to replicate most AAA games with a high level of comfort for VR newbies.

Then there's the issue of fatigue just from wearing the helmet and being in VR so long. I always bring it up, but I played Demeo for over 2hrs and when I took the helmet off it was like coming up out of long shift in a coal mine. People really want AAA game experiences where you drop hours experiencing all sorts of pressure on your equilibrium and strain on your eyes and neck? Seems like we're still 2 gens away from glasses/goggle VR headsets.

All that being said, I still love VR. Ironically, what got me into it was Beat Saber that a friend recommended we play together. In my experience short arcade-like experiences are great, especially at parties. It's like the Wii 2.0. People call for traditional AAA experiences, but outside the hardened VR sea dogs with VR legs of steel, can they even handle it?

Yeah when VR is spot on it’s amazing, for short periods at least with the current level of comfort. But when you get hit by the motion sickness bug it’ll take all those nice feelings away.

However, I do think/hope the haptics in PSVR2 could help though, to better connect what’s happening in the VR world with what you feel in the real world with your physical body.

I used to play Skyrim VR and No Man’s Sky by sitting on a swivel chair and rotate by ”walking” with the feet on the floor as well to better sense what’s happening, it works quite well for me and really help out with motion sickness issues. Just sitting back in a comfy chair is a big no-no for me though. No idea how racing would work, haven’t tried that, maybe having a steering wheel could help idk.

 

[Lasha]

 

[crackajack]

I'd say the price would not be a problem at all, IF the games catalgoue would be out of the gate ALL PS5 titles (at least a 3D cinema mode), practically all PS4 games ported, helping loyal customers to already have a nice library, and full PC-support on top of it.
As it is, it will possibly be a harder battle than PS VR1 had, since some early adopters, people who were actually willing to try VR for the first time with the first iteration, did not entirely buy the VR is the future enthusiasm, had some fun, but not mind bending new heights of joy, to make another VR purchase, without more than new fancy hw and the same lackluster support, rational.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

PS5 + PSVR2 puts it in the same enthusiast ballpark as a quest and a PC. GT7 looks great. 500$ for the console, 450 for the headset, 80$ for the game, then 60$ per year to play it online is already pushing 1,100$ to 1,200$. Its really not far off building a PC that can run the big VR racing sims. I think thats the comparison he is getting at.

This is just not true. And quite frankly a purposeful myopic way took at things to make a case.

And again...... beginning to feel like a broken record here... subjective.

I do not pay for PS+ anything to pay online, I pay for it for the games I can get. And I get a ton. I only honestly buy 6-8 games a year. And even at that, I seldom ever buy at launch price even though Iamadigita. That usually means that I wait until most games get their first discount before actually buying with the exception of 2/3 games a year. At times I am waiting so long that I end up never actually buying them and just getting them on PS+ if they become available. I know of people that do not even buy anything period and what they have done since last year is just pay for PS+.

Point is, it's subjective.

And fuck the comparison he seems to be making.... be it PSVR or VR on a PC, either way, you are gonna be over $1k on average when it's said on done, NO ONE.... absolutely NO ONE is looking at VR because they think it's cheap or a bargain. A VR needs is the right game...or the right kinda porn implementation, or preferably both. And watch its sales skyrocket.

 

[SHA]

He should work there.