• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

IGN Survey (62,000 Surveyed): Gamers aren't excited by motion controls.

K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Motion controls are only liked by people who fit either one of three categories,

snip
Or... This is a subjective issue and they have an opinion that is different from yours.

I almost entirely hate motion controls, but c'mon dude, not everyone is a sheep or a fanboy.

image.php
Hey, don't generalize about Halo fans. :p
 

Izick

Member
So then what, do we blame the developers? Over the years we've had two different types of motion controls, one with a wand, and one with no controller, and only the former has given a few great titles that utilize the gimmick.

Is it really the developers fault? I mean, I'm sure there are awesome things that you can think of, like when you see a tech demo of playing Skyrim with the Kinect. Did you ever think about all the problems that arise when doing that? Would that still be fun after the 5 minutes that the video runs? How do you deal with doing more complex actions? What about the problem of having no physical feedback when doing these things? You see, these are the questions that usually get lost in the shuffle, instead people see unrealistic sizzle-reels, witnessing unrealistic interpretations of what the gimmick could be, and thus garnering unrealistic expectations by many people.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
It only took 2 pages this time to get to the "people who like this thing I don't are liars and don't really like it. They're just pretending due to an ulterior motive."


So then what, do we blame the developers? Over the years we've had two different types of motion controls, one with a wand, and one with no controller, and only the former has given a few great titles that utilize the gimmick.

Is it really the developers fault? I mean, I'm sure there are awesome things that you can think of, like when you see a tech demo of playing Skyrim with the Kinect. Did you ever think about all the problems that arise when doing that? Would that still be fun after the 5 minutes that the video runs? How do you deal with doing more complex actions? What about the problem of having no physical feedback when doing these things? You see, these are the questions that usually get lost in the shuffle, instead people see unrealistic sizzle-reels, witnessing unrealistic interpretations of what the gimmick could be, and thus garnering unrealistic expectations by many people.

To a degree, I actually believe part of the blame lay with Nintendo themselves, right from the start. Nintendo is very guilty of something with motion controls in general, and the Wii specifically. Bear with me a few.

Nintendo revealed the Wii concept using a cunning series of commercials that featured suggestions for how the Wii technology would change games. Their original pitch reels referenced all kinds of traditional video games, plus some new ideas. The people using the wiimote in those reels indicated everything the Wii interface revolutionizing everything from platformers to first person shooters, and creating original kinds of games around themes like cooking.

All well and good.

The problem came in that the hardware Nintendo shipped was not truly the hardware they promised. The wii remote is still the best motion controller in several ways, especially its ability to stay properly calibrated with the screen (thanks to using a dead simple triangulation system) via the two LEDs on the sensor bar). But it lacked the sensors to do what Nintendo strongly insinuated it would do. Stuff that would one day require the Motion+ attachment. It couldn't be used as a free form sword. As a true 3D manipulator of objects in the game world. It couldn't accurately track certain kinds of gestures without guesswork.

All this essentially crippled the Wii out of the gate save for a few key "blue ocean" games Nintendo very, very carefully designed around the wiimote's limitations.

We've heard that Motion+, or rather the missing sensors Wii should have shipped with, was 'too expensive' at the time the Wii launched. If it's really true that Nintendo had considered the full sensor suite early on, they made a bad call in saving a few bucks.

Software development was crippled based on what I could see. It only compounded the problem of 3rd parties being caught off-guard by the Wii and not knowing what to do about its success. Too many games that could have been key for Wii didn't live up to the promise of motion gameplay due to being really rather limited. Others that tried, were overly complex in order to jury rig a method of sensing what the vanilla wiimote couldn't. One of the most infamous was Sega's remake of Samba for Wii. Since the Wiimote couldn't fully track motion in 3D space, Samba had a totally baffling system of calibration before every play session that broke anyway within a few minutes. It was nearly impossible to play intuitively.

Added to this, Nintendo themselves failed to a degree to show the way for other developers. It took them six years to finally release one fully functioning 'core' action adventure game built entirely around the Wii interface. While it's true they don't have infinite resources, at the end of the day, they failed to provide enough compelling software that showed off the Wii being a Wii.

I half think that the failure of the Wii to establish baselines for how motion controls could work in the world of core games and core gamers set the stage for everybody else to fail. Sony has spent too much time reinventing the wheel with Move, and the damn thing isn't good for the one thing PS3 has plenty of, first person shooters. It's way too drifty and sluggish as a pointer, the one thing the Wii does flawlessly. Microsoft meanwhile decided that the motion control audience consisted of people who like Just Dance, and built their entire motion platform around that.

A lot of people don't like motion controls in concept alone, because for them, gaming is something to kill time with or purely for relaxation and escape from other activity. There is nothing wrong with that. Tho some with that view may want to consider that gaming is not only that. It does mean different things to different people.

I think a big part of the wasted potential of motion controls comes from a not very explored angle. That angle is the lost world of the arcade. The arcade was an active venue. Many games used buttons and sticks, sure, but it was a place you went up and traveled to, not the place you crashed because you didn't want to move any more for the day. It was a social place, full of electricity and excitement of many people enjoying games with the same mindset. Arcades were also the true originators of "motion" controls. Custom arcade games used everything from guns to fishing rods to skiing rigs to skateboards. Playing such games was partly about the experience. It wasn't about what was most "efficient", in terms of moving one's fingers as little as possible, to push a button as fast as possible.

Nintendo did actually tap into what made such venues and such games attractive with their living room party atmosphere for Wii. Wii Sports series is horribly underrated and misunderstood by many core gamers. It appealed to people because it was the arcades all over again. It invited a jovial, outgoing mood where playing the game was not just about pushing buttons to see an action on screen, but a unique experience. People should have recognized this same phenomenon with the surge of music game popularity, where those dumb plastic instruments got people interested and involved for reasons a lot of hardcore gamers couldn't understand.

Unfortunately, too many negative factors disrupted the full impact of all this. From immature technology to awkward progress in software development.

Personally, I don't think motion controls are the passing fad so many think. Things have already been changed permanently, such as with the inclusion of gyroscopic controls in increasingly very device under the sun. Yes Virginia, that is motion control.

But some day, the Wii concept may come back in the form of a far more mature technology, whether from Nintendo or not.
 

Kaizer

Banned
While I feel there's certainly a few select titles that make a good case of motion-controlled gaming, most of the titles don't take advantage of the unique controls in interesting ways. There's a huge lack of creativity in the market, which is why it's been pushed to a point of irrelevancy for some because Kinect has been nothing more than a Just Dance/Dance Central/etc. machine.

Personally, I don't hate motion controls, but they've done nothing to excite me or really make me go "wow" in a while. The only thing the Kinect is used for in our house is Dance Central. Child of Eden was fun, but controls are more precise with a gamepad.
 
Ahahaha, "fads." Quite a fad Nintendo had there, eh? Lasted a long, long time for a fad. Was a success with a large group of former non-gamers who've now moved to the Kinect for more "fad" goodness, too!

Back to reality: Nintendo has done almost nothing to support the Wii for a long time. They're focusing on the 3DS and on Wii U development. This is something that happens at the end of every single hardware generation: you stop pushing the old console and start focusing on the new ones. The lack of third-party support since... ever, that sure hasn't helped, either.

On top of that, Nintendo took a deliberate gamble making the Wii standard definition and it paid off, but only to a point. Eventually HD penetration was so high that the Wii started looking less attractive than the competition, especially the Kinect. Some say Nintendo made a mistake, but those obscenely large piles of cash disagree. They made a deliberate choice with the Wii's SD tech, and now we're seeing the consequences of that choice.

Of course, for someone like you, the Wii dropping in sales at any point ever is proof of a "truth" you want badly to believe: nobody cares anymore about this thing you don't like (motion controlled gaming), and they never really did, and soon the industry will start giving you more of what you think you're entitled to.

How do you know the Wii U won't be a success? You "knew" the Wii was going to be destroyed in sales. But it didn't, did it? You were mad about that. Mad that developers spent time and money and other resources developing games with controls schemes you didn't and don't like. And now you think things will return to "normal" next generation. I can hardly wait to read the whiny posts from people like you when that doesn't happen.

And man, at least try to hide your fanboy bias. You're all fine with Kinect being successful, but you're dripping with venom about Nintendo's motion control future? Please.



Oh I think maybe you're tearing up just a little bit.

Bitter tears from the delusional and entitled: once again, the most entertaining thing about this gen.



And somehow, this is the most pathetic post in the thread yet.

If not a popularity fad, it does seem to be a technological fad. The WiiU is focusing on an iPad-like tablet instead of the next big leap in motion controllers, which seems very faddish to me.
 
However, motion control is harder to apply to every game. Many games have tacked on motion controls where they're really not necessary, and are either 1) imprecise, or 2) able to be substituted by a button. Look at DKC:Returns, where the rolling should have been a button, but was instead a Wii remote shake.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? Shoehorning a new control scheme into the same old genres with the same traditional designs is a bad idea. Of course it doesn't work well. And, of course, that's what almost all developers shat out onto the Wii before moving on. Being creative is hard.

The most entertaining thing about next gen so far is the Wii U's New Controller, with all its buttons and analog sticks.

Eh... that's a judgment call. If you hate motion controls, you're cheering about it and using it as proof Wii-like motion controls are dead in the water and that Nintendo knows it. I don't think we've seen enough to say that for sure. Could be true, could be nonsense.

But motion controls are not going away altogether. It's just not going to happen. It may be a much smaller emphasis for the big 3 in the future, and that could end up being a good thing all around. But they're not disappearing.

If not a popularity fad, it does seem to be a technological fad. The WiiU is focusing on an iPad-like tablet instead of the next big leap in motion controllers, which seems very faddish to me.

I think it's more like Nintendo sees the success of the Kinect (and Sony's failed attempt to eat the Wii's lunch with Move) and has decided, "time for another 'blue ocean' move. We could compete head-to-head, or we could undercut both MS and Sony again by delivering something totally new."

Obviously, time will tell how successful that move will be. I am concerned about the tablet approach, but, early on, I was sure the Wii was a mistake, and look how that turned out.
 

bomma_man

Member
Motion controls are only liked by people who fit either one of three categories,

1) Don't know any better and just enjoy it because it's there. The casual crowd.

2) Extreme Nintendo fanboys who think because the Wii sold well it's good for gaming and will ignore flaws because of fanboyism.

3) Core gamers who like to go against the common view of core gamers. Most core gamers hate iOS games and motion controls, but these gamers ignore all of the problems those bring because it's cool to go against the grain. They typically act in a douchey manner in their posts and have avatars of something incredibly dumb/weird or some dude or chick posing in some kind of suggestive pose. You know who you are.

The bitter tears are still delicious, six years later.
 
My main beef with motion controls is the lack of tactile feedback, which makes the boundaries of different inputs too vague and indistinct. That and the fact that developers tend to shoehorn them in unnecessarily, and require large exaggerated motions. The whole demand for 1:1 is dumb imo. The feeling of performing the action is more important than performing to scale, but there seems to be a tendency among certain players to get overly literal minded when it comes to what makes "good" motion control. The other problem is that motion controls are often shoehorned in where traditional controls or a pointer would be simpler and more efficient. Skyward Sword was particularly guilty of this. MotionPlus was a crummy substitute for IR when aiming, and too many secondary actions were mapped to arm movements that would have been more intuitive with traditional controls. Same with the rolling in DKCR.

Personally I would like to see motion controls stick around, but mainly as an extra option. For certain genres or specific games they work really well. Ideally they'll start getting more integrated with traditional methods of control now that people are getting over the novelty of them. When done well they're a great way to compliment existing control schemes without cluttering the controllers with more buttons.

edit: And man, is that infographic an eyesore. Good to know guess IGN's graphic design is as terrible as their editorials.
 
This data means absolutely NOTHING. It is based on IGN readers. How is that representative of total population? And what's the point of having more than 60,000 respondents? They could get more reliable data with 100 respondents if the population was more representative. (this part is actually making me angry since IGN boasts about it)

Also saying that 24% own a motion device and actually enjoying it is misleading. Out of people that own motion devices 38% enjoy them (24% out of 63% that own one). I don't think I've ever seen more meaningless statistic.

I'm quoting this post with the futile hope it will be read instead of being passed over. I know better, but...
 
The thing that pisses me off is that Motion Controls work really really fucking well when put forth effort.

SSX Blur
Punchout! (with the superior motion control scheme)
Metroid Prime 3
No More Heroes
Super Mario Galaxy
Skyward Sword
Red Steel 2
Zack and Wiki
Wii Sports Resort
Just Dance

are some examples of motion controls done right. And when using them its hard to imagine playing those games via gamepad. Unfortunately developers pussied out. So much wasted potential.
 

Alx

Member
It amazes me how many people here can be unwillling to admit that you can be legitimately entertained by motion controls (or many other things, actually).
Like it or not, many games are based on simple, sometimes stupid rules, but they can still be great. Tetris or Minecraft is just playing cubes. Shooters or Diablo is "click on objects until they die". Motion is just another way to build something that can be entertaining.

Remember when gamers were being made fun of, because they chose a shallow and ridiculous activity ? (I suppose many here are too young for that, but anybody older than 30 probably does). The same gamers now make the same discrimination among themselves...
 
It amazes me how many people here can be unwillling to admit that you can be legitimately entertained by motion controls (or many other things, actually).
Like it or not, many games are based on simple, sometimes stupid rules, but they can still be great. Tetris or Minecraft is just playing cubes. Shooters or Diablo is "click on objects until they die". Motion is just another way to build something that can be entertaining.

Remember when gamers were being made fun of, because they chose a shallow and ridiculous activity ? (I suppose many here are too young for that, but anybody older than 30 probably does). The same gamers now make the same discrimination among themselves...

Indeed. The gaming community has developed into something so pretentious that it mocks the audience who better reflects its origins in the arcades.

Who are we to say what gaming truly is? Motion controls are fun. I've enjoyed them throughout the course of this generation. There's no reason why anyone should have a vendetta against an alternative control mechanism.
 

tiff

Banned
Obviously it wasn't, because it plays a million times better when using a pointer. Just like every single game that involves aiming a cursor.
In fact the only real argument I could make against pointer control integration in RE4 was that it made aiming so easy it trivialized the game's difficulty.
 
It amazes me how many people here can be unwillling to admit that you can be legitimately entertained by motion controls (or many other things, actually).
Like it or not, many games are based on simple, sometimes stupid rules, but they can still be great. Tetris or Minecraft is just playing cubes. Shooters or Diablo is "click on objects until they die". Motion is just another way to build something that can be entertaining.

Remember when gamers were being made fun of, because they chose a shallow and ridiculous activity ? (I suppose many here are too young for that, but anybody older than 30 probably does). The same gamers now make the same discrimination among themselves...

Also when did "gimmicks" become a bad thing? Back in the arcades "gimmicks" where the coolest shit ever.

2942.jpg


1181242172216.jpg


1181242185266.jpg


Memories...
 
Who are we to say what gaming truly is? Motion controls are fun. I've enjoyed them throughout the course of this generation. There's no reason why anyone should have a vendetta against an alternative control mechanism.

Unless you actually believe you're entitled to an industry catering exclusively to you.

Yeah, it's weird.
 

bomma_man

Member
In fact the only real argument I could make against pointer control integration in RE4 was that it made aiming so easy it trivialized the game's difficulty.

Yeah. I'm playing through it now and if anything they're too good. I'm not the best at that game but my accuracy is over 90%.
 

zashga

Member
Is that supposed to be an infographic? None of the information is presented graphically! It's just little blocks of text separated by dotted lines. How sad.
 

Hiltz

Member
Red Steel 2's a satsifying game that mixed motion control with button presses very well. I'd say MadWorld made good use of motion control. Well, except it did have some really terrible use of waggle for shaking off enemies and made you waggle like a mad man during QTEs.

I loved motion control in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. However, they suffered from some issues. TP's basic sword attacks resorted to mindless waggle while Skyward Sword really would have been better off using the IR pointer for long-range items like the bow and arrow ans claw shot. Also, the whip controls didn't always work and the dungeon boss keye door puzzles were really stupid in how they required you to hold down the A button while telling you to turn your hand to twist the Wii remote.On the bright side, the beetle device was a great idea.

Other games like Excitebots/Excite Truck were not only fun, but motion control was surprisingly tight and responsive with such a fast-paced gameplay. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories use of the Wii remote's IR pointer as a flashlight was brilliant. The
wheelchair
motion control was so cool but sadly brief. The only motion control that sucked in this game was using it to solve puzzles for picking up objects and turning them upside down. It just didn't work well but perhaps part of the problem was due to the poor physics.

Like a lot of people here, I cannot go back to dual analog for FPS and on-rail shooters after playing games like Metroid Prime 3, GoldenEye 007, and Sin & Punishment 2.
 
I think a big part of the wasted potential of motion controls comes from a not very explored angle. That angle is the lost world of the arcade. The arcade was an active venue. Many games used buttons and sticks, sure, but it was a place you went up and traveled to, not the place you crashed because you didn't want to move any more for the day. It was a social place, full of electricity and excitement of many people enjoying games with the same mindset. Arcades were also the true originators of "motion" controls. Custom arcade games used everything from guns to fishing rods to skiing rigs to skateboards. Playing such games was partly about the experience. It wasn't about what was most "efficient", in terms of moving one's fingers as little as possible, to push a button as fast as possible.

Good post. I hope people read it.

I wanted to single this out because this is why I (and many others) loved ExciteTruck so much. It really felt like the first game to be "arcade perfect," and it was never in an arcade.

Yeah, that term is used for fighting games that are frame-exact to their arcade counterparts. But the other part of the arcade was the wacky crazy active shit you could do. ExciteTruck was that and more. It wouldn't have worked as the same game with an analog stick.
 
Motion controls are only liked by people who fit either one of three categories,

1) Don't know any better and just enjoy it because it's there. The casual crowd.

2) Extreme Nintendo fanboys who think because the Wii sold well it's good for gaming and will ignore flaws because of fanboyism.

3) Core gamers who like to go against the common view of core gamers. Most core gamers hate iOS games and motion controls, but these gamers ignore all of the problems those bring because it's cool to go against the grain. They typically act in a douchey manner in their posts and have avatars of something incredibly dumb/weird or some dude or chick posing in some kind of suggestive pose. You know who you are.

Dumbest post I've seen on GAF yet? I think so.

As if it's as simple as shoe-horning people into 3 categories, all of which are "bad" in your view. Try getting off your high horse, bud. It's far more fun when you actually try to get along with people.

EDIT: For the record, I'm a huge fan of motion controls when done well. The majority of games don't do them well, so I'm not a fan in most cases. However, games like Skyward Sword have me very excited for the future of motion controlled gaming (hate the game all you want, the game controls amazingly once you get the hang of it).
 
I wouldn't say that motion control is bad, it just has not been implemented very well so far. It never is a necessity. I have yet to encounter a game where I'm like "man this could only be done with motion controls" and until that day, motion controls will remain unnecessary.
 

Hiltz

Member
This was just the first generation of the industry getting used to motion control. Mistakes are going to happen with third-parties tryin to understand what works well and what doesn't. What's intuitive and what's unnecessarily complex. Quite frankly, the fighting genre has been the only big one that motion control does not seem well suited for.
 
Maybe it's just that we're older gamers who've been brought up on controllers, and the next generation of gamers will prefer motion controls? I dislike them TBH, I've given up on playing my Wii, my weary body can't take the old 'Pete Townshend' actions.
 

Sintoid

Member
Yes they are. Certainly as much as motion controls anyway.

So we can consider a steering wheel gimmick too? Come on the "successful gimmick" we're talking about are not about driving a skate or a Star Wars Pod. Else we have to consider steering wheels the same and we all know that these games are successful just because they're racing games with more immersive control system (a lot more immersive)

It's nonesense
 
So we can consider a steering wheel gimmick too? Come on the "successful gimmick" we're talking about are not about driving a skate or a Star Wars Pod. Else we have to consider steering wheels the same.

It's nonesense

I wonder if the invention of the computer mouse was ever considered a gimmick in the computing world?
 

Hiltz

Member
Maybe it's just that we're older gamers who've been brought up on controllers, and the next generation of gamers will prefer motion controls? I dislike them TBH, I've given up on playing my Wii, my weary body can't take the old 'Pete Townshend' actions.

I'm sure that is part of the reason for a lot of people. Although, Nintendo has been largely responsible for most of the evolution and innovations of the game controller and motion control (plus split controls) was the next step for the company after pioneering touchscreen control. Personally, I was open to motion control because it sounded refreshing, but I would have hesitated to embrace it had Nintendo not y included buttons and an analog stick. The company knew going in that motion control by itself was not practical enough be applied to all genres. When Microsoft announced Kinect, it was pretty obvious that while the technology was ambitious, the hardware was going to be severely limited.
 

mooooose

Member
I played a ton of Wii at the beginning of this gen, way more than PS3/360, and I was a huge fanboy and believer.

I ran through the catalog pretty fast and third party titles got less and less interesting as we got farther from launch date (classic Nintendo console life cycle trait).

So, I turned to PS3/360. Played Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, Warhawk, Gears, Call of Duty, Mirror's Edge, more Call of Duty, etc. More PS3.

Regardless, I fell back to feeling comfortable using a "traditional" controller.

However, this week, I finally found the time to play Skyward Sword.

And it's amazing.

The controls can be a LITTLE demanding (rolling and throwing works, but is kind of uncomfortable of a wrist movement, among other things) but the combat WORKS, and works really really really well. Totally made me a believer, again. So year, I'm all for motion control. Not really for Kinect. It's kinda awkward. Wii Remote/Move, definitely.

OH AND even if motion control WASN'T feature of the Wii Remote/Nunchuk set up, TWO HANDED CONTROLLERS ARE WAY MORE COMFORTABLE AND A CLEAR EVOLUTION.
 
One thing I'll never understand is why didn't more people follow the RE4wii formula? Not even Capcom did! Instead we got on-rails RE, why not another game in the same style as RE4wii??
 
All shooters should have optional motion controls, considering how crappy the dead zone configuration usually is for the vast majority of them. :\
 
Yeah, I don't know anymore. Wii Sports was the first game I was like, hey, this motion control thing might have a future. Might've also been the last.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Wario Ware: Twisted justifies the existence of "motion controls."

I'm starting to think third parties got together and made wild and crazy bets before this generation began -- I can't explain the piles and piles of completely stupid "gesture" controls added to nearly every third party Wii title. Most first party Nintendo software seemed to handle "motion controls" perfectly well -- it was the third party stuff that essentially turned it into "draw an esoteric shape in the air to simulate a button press."
 
Top Bottom