2006 - 'You'll see, motion controls just need that innovative, huge full scale game that incorporates true motion controls from the beginning and isn't just tacked on! It'll be amazing! Crow will be served to doubters for sure!'
2012 - ^^^
Resi4 Wii Edition is by no means a "proper" motion controlled game but the QTEs are vastly more fun with waggle.
Also, I am definitely picking up a copy of Red Steel 2.
It only took 2 pages this time to get to the "people who like this thing I don't are liars and don't really like it. They're just pretending due to an ulterior motive."
To a degree, I actually believe part of the blame lay with Nintendo themselves, right from the start. Nintendo is very guilty of something with motion controls in general, and the Wii specifically. Bear with me a few.
Nintendo revealed the Wii concept using a cunning series of commercials that featured suggestions for how the Wii technology would change games. Their original pitch reels referenced all kinds of traditional video games, plus some new ideas. The people using the wiimote in those reels indicated everything the Wii interface revolutionizing everything from platformers to first person shooters, and creating original kinds of games around themes like cooking.
All well and good.
The problem came in that the hardware Nintendo shipped was not truly the hardware they promised. The wii remote is still the best motion controller in several ways, especially its ability to stay properly calibrated with the screen (thanks to using a dead simple triangulation system) via the two LEDs on the sensor bar). But it lacked the sensors to do what Nintendo strongly insinuated it would do. Stuff that would one day require the Motion+ attachment. It couldn't be used as a free form sword. As a true 3D manipulator of objects in the game world. It couldn't accurately track certain kinds of gestures without guesswork.
All this essentially crippled the Wii out of the gate save for a few key "blue ocean" games Nintendo very, very carefully designed around the wiimote's limitations.
We've heard that Motion+, or rather the missing sensors Wii should have shipped with, was 'too expensive' at the time the Wii launched. If it's really true that Nintendo had considered the full sensor suite early on, they made a bad call in saving a few bucks.
Software development was crippled based on what I could see. It only compounded the problem of 3rd parties being caught off-guard by the Wii and not knowing what to do about its success. Too many games that could have been key for Wii didn't live up to the promise of motion gameplay due to being really rather limited. Others that tried, were overly complex in order to jury rig a method of sensing what the vanilla wiimote couldn't. One of the most infamous was Sega's remake of Samba for Wii. Since the Wiimote couldn't fully track motion in 3D space, Samba had a totally baffling system of calibration before every play session that broke anyway within a few minutes. It was nearly impossible to play intuitively.
Added to this, Nintendo themselves failed to a degree to show the way for other developers. It took them six years to finally release one fully functioning 'core' action adventure game built entirely around the Wii interface. While it's true they don't have infinite resources, at the end of the day, they failed to provide enough compelling software that showed off the Wii being a Wii.
I half think that the failure of the Wii to establish baselines for how motion controls could work in the world of core games and core gamers set the stage for everybody else to fail. Sony has spent too much time reinventing the wheel with Move, and the damn thing isn't good for the one thing PS3 has plenty of, first person shooters. It's way too drifty and sluggish as a pointer, the one thing the Wii does flawlessly. Microsoft meanwhile decided that the motion control audience consisted of people who like Just Dance, and built their entire motion platform around that.
A lot of people don't like motion controls in concept alone, because for them, gaming is something to kill time with or purely for relaxation and escape from other activity. There is nothing wrong with that. Tho some with that view may want to consider that gaming is not only that. It does mean different things to different people.
I think a big part of the wasted potential of motion controls comes from a not very explored angle. That angle is the lost world of the arcade. The arcade was an active venue. Many games used buttons and sticks, sure, but it was a place you went up and traveled to, not the place you crashed because you didn't want to move any more for the day. It was a social place, full of electricity and excitement of many people enjoying games with the same mindset. Arcades were also the true originators of "motion" controls. Custom arcade games used everything from guns to fishing rods to skiing rigs to skateboards. Playing such games was partly about the experience. It wasn't about what was most "efficient", in terms of moving one's fingers as little as possible, to push a button as fast as possible.
Nintendo did actually tap into what made such venues and such games attractive with their living room party atmosphere for Wii. Wii Sports series is horribly underrated and misunderstood by many core gamers. It appealed to people because it was the arcades all over again. It invited a jovial, outgoing mood where playing the game was not just about pushing buttons to see an action on screen, but a unique experience. People should have recognized this same phenomenon with the surge of music game popularity, where those dumb plastic instruments got people interested and involved for reasons a lot of hardcore gamers couldn't understand.
Unfortunately, too many negative factors disrupted the full impact of all this. From immature technology to awkward progress in software development.
Personally, I don't think motion controls are the passing fad so many think. Things have already been changed permanently, such as with the inclusion of gyroscopic controls in increasingly very device under the sun. Yes Virginia, that is motion control.
But some day, the Wii concept may come back in the form of a far more mature technology, whether from Nintendo or not.
What kind of motion controls are they talking about in the survey? There are different kinds.
To a degree, I actually believe part of the blame lay with Nintendo themselves, [cut]
I like motion controls, but I would say I'm excited for them. I also enjoy keyboard and mouse, but that's not getting me excited either, nor would it if you has asked me in the 80s and just said "are you excited about the future of pointing devices" while I was busy trying to beat Batman on ZX Spectrum.
it is though, sorry. pointer controls are much better than the dual stick setup for first-person games and MP3 pulled those off fairly well. it was MP3's biggest accomplishment probably.Thanks for the laugh, I really needed it.
it'd probably be exactly the same except Nintendo would have continued it's slide toward irrelevance.Would of loved to see how this Gen would of turned out if no budget was wasted on anything related to motion at all and all pumped back into games and the hardware itself.
You mean you haven't? You criminal.
The only thing that came close (sorry, if you have to "magicalibrate" a device to have it perform as intended, you're doing it wrong) to my wiimote pointing experience was The Shoot, which had its own - very small, but present nonetheless - amount of drift.I agree with your opinion about how Wii affected motion controls perception, minus the "Move is not suited for FPS" part. Don't know how much experience you have with that, but I have some and I can say that statement of yours is factually wrong.
The only thing that came close (sorry, if you have to "magicalibrate" a device to have it perform as intended, you're doing it wrong) to my wiimote pointing experience was The Shoot, which had its own - very small, but present nonetheless - amount of drift.
RE5 Gold team made horrible, horrible design choices about control schemes (relative pointing?! what the...) nor the laggy Killzone3 demo that's very, very far from the best pointer games available on the Wii.
Simply put, in my experience the "absolute" pointing detection that the wiimote uses has proven far more reliable... and thus, more enjoyable than gyro-based detection (Zelda Skyward Sword has more or less the same issues and that's the main reason I strongly disliked its aiming compared to similar, previous experiences on the Wii)
Journey. /endthreadCan anyone name me a great motion controlled game? Anyone?
rofl..what do you need a survey for..isn't that common sense?
SHOCKING NEWS:
People don't wanna stand in front of their TV makin stupid gestures to play games!*
I'm not even gonna dispute that it's fun for parties but that's about it.
WTF? What has this to do with anything?
You really gonna argue that waggle controls are the same as using a mouse?
*I know you can control most games sitting down, but I still have to make weird gestures instead of just pressing a button.
Fair enough.There is no question the Wiimote tech is more reliable and less laggy than a gyro-based one for pointer controls but it comes with a much smaller motion detection resolution (hence a less smooth cursor behavior)
Holy shit @ the motion control defenders, especially the first 1.5 pages of this thread! The amount of pre-emptive rage, strawmen attacks and seemingly built up angst over console wars from 2007 and onwards is amazing.
Fair enough.
I'm not really *that* knowledgeable about inner Move tech, I'll try to better understand how it works because right now I can't rebut your claims.
I think the only problem with motion control is people thinking that EVERYTHING should be motion controlled. FUCK, NO.
I'm sad this is the only mention of Excitebots in this thread. Totally justified motion controls and worked without Plus to boot. Not to discount the technology (and the bit about Wii being less-than-capable in motion at launch, then buried in minigames because of #1, then Plus being stillborn because of #2 is spot-on), but Excitebots is still amazing. Probably more so because so many devs gave up on trying.Other games like Excitebots/Excite Truck were not only fun, but motion control was surprisingly tight and responsive with such a fast-paced gameplay.
Pointing in general should have been a standard by now. Even just for menus! It's so frustrating to go back to sticks or d-pads for aiming at things on the screen. It's like operating a modern computer without a mouse attached, with only Tab etc. to rely on.Like a lot of people here, I cannot go back to dual analog for FPS and on-rail shooters after playing games like Metroid Prime 3, GoldenEye 007, and Sin & Punishment 2.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. They fit some places, not so much others. It helps tremendously if the game is designed around motion control, rather than trying to bring it in, though there can be wins replacing some traditional actions with the less-awkward motion-based alternatives... particularly pointing.I don't think such people exist. It's a myth, imagined by people who see alternate controls as a menace for their traditional games. All the people I know who enjoy motion controls also enjoy "regular" games.
Dual analog still fucking sucks ass for aiming, I don't know what you're so happy about.
Pointing in general should have been a standard by now. Even just for menus! It's so frustrating to go back to sticks or d-pads for aiming at things on the screen.
It's still the most comfortable way to play for most people, which is why motion controls will never replace them. Build a gaming PC if you want real accuracy.
Next I suppose they do a survey of 100,000 to find out if gamers like shooters.
KB/M |---| IR Pointer |-------------| Dual Analog
I can't anymore, unfortunately.Well, try some more rencent games if you can.
I'd say "most of the 60fps ones" (Metroid Corruption, Red Steel 2, etc.) because high framerates give me an even better responsiveness feeling, but actually RE4 Wii was *really* an excellent pointer showcase too IMHO - and as you probably already know, it doesn't run @60fps.can you point me to the best of the best Wii shooter with regards to pointer controls? Don't care about actual game quality. Just the cursor. Which is the one you'd say "now that's how you do a pointer"?
Absolutely! (see: The Conduit)And they also add to the fun with little effort on the game design side of things. I had more fun with the shittiest pointer based shooters than with the best stick-based ones.
So in one post you generalize the IGN community as hardcore gamers, while also generalizing all hardcore gamers as hating and crying over motion controls.
Then you quote someone else to emphasize that the article is meaningless.
But mostly you just exude your joy over the fact that some people aren't fans of motion control.
You have bitterness issues lol.
So what makes motion control SO AWESOME to you?
Yeah, I think opinions on motion controls will begin to turn once companies begin pushing it harder and the technology gets better.I think this is more hate against the completely inaccurate Wiimote than motion controls in general. I hated how the Wiimote actually performed (it made games nearly unplayable) but I am interested in the future of motion controls.
Motion controls are only liked by people who fit either one of three categories,
1) Don't know any better and just enjoy it because it's there. The casual crowd.
2) Extreme Nintendo fanboys who think because the Wii sold well it's good for gaming and will ignore flaws because of fanboyism.
3) Core gamers who like to go against the common view of core gamers. Most core gamers hate iOS games and motion controls, but these gamers ignore all of the problems those bring because it's cool to go against the grain. They typically act in a douchey manner in their posts and have avatars of something incredibly dumb/weird or some dude or chick posing in some kind of suggestive pose. You know who you are.
As much as you're calling others out for being bitter and angry, you just come off as threatened, bitter, and hostile yourself.Notice how I placed "hardcore" in quotes? Plenty of people who consider themselves hardcore gamers are okay with new controls methods.
But there's a large, whiny contingent of so-called hardcore gamers who can't accept the reality that they're not getting exactly what they want out of the industry anymore. They don't want motion controls to be a success, and so they blubber and whine about their existence endlessly. They don't want weaker tech to be a success, so they bitch and moan about the Wii's success every chance they get. They even consider their preferences some sort of badge of honor. That's pathetic, and it deserves to be ridiculed.
These days, IGN is about as bad as it gets in terms of gaming sites. I don't think highly of their community, no.
I quoted someone else to emphasize that the article uses faulty reasoning. In doing so, the article panders to a so-called "hardcore" crybaby fanbase that dislikes motion controls and wants them to go away. Yeah, that should be emphasized and mocked.
I "exude my joy" over the whiny manchildren who can't accept the reality that motion controls were a big deal, seem to still be a pretty big deal, and are more than likely going to remain a big-ish deal. Nothing is funnier than people who refuse to accept they aren't going to get what they want.
Bitterness? It's called schadenfreude.
Their overwhelming success pisses people like you off. Try to keep up.
Journey. /endthread
Can anyone name me a great motion controlled game? Anyone?