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[HueyFreeman]

Probably the best stealth game of all time, but I completely see his point of view in that review. I also like how high 8's are the most controversial scores last generation. Kind of telling of current events; people would rather receive false praise and scores instead of listening to people's honest to goodness opinions and criticisms.

I definitely do too... like I say, I love their willingness to rightfully 8 a game... but I happen to think the SP in SC:CT was well worth over a 9, from my experience playing games and reading their reviews. It was a weird hang up saying "design by committee"... they were all huge endeavors and needed to be tackled by different teams, I'm not sure the game should be punished for that when they all measure up really well. He also got really put off by the number of splash screens during load up, which i thought was also an odd thing to mention in the review lol

Anyways, pretty far OT... it's just a general sense that sometimes GS will low ball a worthwhile game for some unusual, but generally well justified stuff.

The problems is here is the idiotic interpretation of a < 9 score as a "Don't buy." If I had interpreted Kasavin's Ico review that way, I never would have bought the game, but when you actually read it, it's full of praise and insight.

Stupid industry.

 

[StuBurns]

I think generally the 8s and 7s of the world are more memorable, what are you going to remember better in ten years, Modern Warfare 2 or Mirror's Edge? Quite often, the higher scores are given to games that are so well crafted that they're lacking those bold design decisions that make it memorable.

 

[Izick]

It must be too early in the morning because I don't see anything sarcastic about his comment even when you have pointed it out.


And I'm just saying that not breaking the laws of maths would help the argument more because people going batshit over a 5/5 score makes them look even worse. Geeze.

Yes.

I definitely do too... like I say, I love their willingness to rightfully 8 a game... but I happen to think the SP in SC:CT was well worth over a 9, from my experience playing games and reading their reviews. It was a weird hang up saying "design by committee"... they were all huge endeavors and needed to be tackled by different teams, I'm not sure the game should be punished for that when they all measure up really well. He also got really put off by the number of splash screens during load up, which i thought was also an odd thing to mention in the review lol

Anyways, pretty far OT... it's just a general sense that sometimes GS will low ball a worthwhile game for some unusual, but generally well justified stuff.

The problems is here is the idiotic interpretation of a < 9 score as a "Don't buy." If I had interpreted Kasavin's Ico review that way, I never would have bought the game, but when you actually read it, it's full of praise and insight.

Stupid industry.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. It's just completely silly at times to even have a 10 or more point scale. I used to think XPLay had it wrong, because 1-5 lacked the ability to pinpoint ratings, but over the years I've come to think that it's the best system out there, at least in terms of ratings.

 

[Odrion]

Yes.

Oh, then still no. I never found this correlation between a game being memorable to me and whether it got a 8.8 or a 9.whatever plausible.

 

[BlazinAm]

Where is this from? Which jar episode?

 

[Quackula]

The meltdowns when it was announced Final Fantasy XIII wasn't going to be Ps3 exclusive were almost as good as this. Almost.

 

[ASIS]

I remember I was shocked at the score, I honestly thought I read it wrong. Lol seems so childish (I was 16 at the time >_>) but I didn't say anything about the reviewer, I just disagreed with him.. Before.. Playing .. The game... Whatever I was too hyped or something to stop me.
Luckily I actually really enjoyed he game, easily GOTY 2006. The ranking goes as follows for me:

1. MM
2.SS
3.WW
4.TP
5.OOT

 

[Izick]

It's funny, because it's reviews like this and Kane and Lynch that were the reason people followed Jeff over to Giant Bomb, and why Giant Bomb is successful today. It's not because he gives scores to try and induce shock value and hits, but rather you know he's going to give you the review straight. He's a straight shooter. Sure, you may not agree with his opinions, but at least you know the guy is going to be honest, and he knows and gives a damn about the industry.

 

[StuBurns]

The meltdowns when it was announced Final Fantasy XIII wasn't going to be Ps3 exclusive were almost as good as this. Almost.

I think people fail to see what were legitimate reasons to be pissed about that. Sony and SE announced it was exclusive, people spent six hundred dollars to buy that console because they were told it would be the only way to play that game.

If someone robbed you of six hundred dollars, you have a right to be pissed.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Been here since 2005, you can do a post history, I wasn't part of the backlash, so you can save all that "Nintendo fans are the worst" "it's just one fucking review, Jesus Christ" bullshit. Jeff's review was horseshit, didn't deserve the backlash, but then again, who cares what a bunch of people on some random website reviews a game.

What's hilarious is you bashing TP and praising Gears of War of all things in the same sentence. Irony.

Gears of War 1 was an incredible game. Fantastic single-player, unforgettable co-op, and the most visceral multi-player combat I had ever experienced.

TP was just another Zelda game. Competent and well crafted, surely, but nothing we hadn't seen before.

Gears 2 and 3 have the same problem though.

 

[Always-honest]

haha, almost forgot. Score seems reasonable.

 

[Odrion]

It's funny, because it's reviews like this and Kane and Lynch that were the reason people followed Jeff over to Giant Bomb, and why Giant Bomb is successful today. It's not because he gives scores to try and induce shock value and hits, but rather you know he's going to give you the review straight. He's a straight shooter. Sure, you may not agree with his opinions, but at least you know the guy is going to be honest, and he knows and gives a damn about the industry.

I bet if Jeff reviewed Twilight Princess on Giantbomb, it would've been a bit more harsher. He seems more negative on the game in hindsight than "Some of the textures and motion controls are bad 8.8."

edit: Well yeah, the review would be 4/5. But the tone of the review might've been different.

 

[Izick]

I bet if Jeff reviewed Twilight Princess on Giantbomb it would've been a bit more harsher.

Honestly, I don't think Jeff would ever have reviewed it on Giant Bomb. The guys usually seem to review certain types of games, and the Zelda games seem to usually be up Patrick's alley. But for the sake of discussion, I agree. I mean, he would have had to in theory, because it sure as hell wouldn't have gotten a 5 out of 5, so it would have been likely 4 (8.0).

 

[Quackula]

I think people fail to see what were legitimate reasons to be pissed about that. Sony and SE announced it was exclusive, people spent six hundred dollars to buy that console because they were told it would be the only way to play that game.

If someone robbed you of six hundred dollars, you have a right to be pissed.

Sorry, don't really see how it equates to robbery. It's not like they cancelled the Ps3 version or something.

A tad annoying maybe, but not meltdown worthy. Anyone who bought a Ps3 for that reason who didn't find at least one other exclusive they enjoyed on the it simply wasn't looking.

At least one post I saw was from someone who was afraid that Square would turn the game into an FPS so it'd appeal to Halo fans or something.

 

[Wildesy]

... And got it completely wrong.

One of my favorites. I have a playthrough nearly every year. There aren't many games I can say that about.

In spite of its slow beginning and ill-conceived bits, it remains one of the purest dungeon-romps in the series and it's fun to speed-run through.

8.8 is completely wrong? Gez, imagine if he actually gave it a bad score!

 

[StuBurns]

Sorry, don't really see how it equates to robbery. It's not like they cancelled the Ps3 version or something.

A tad annoying maybe, but not meltdown worthy. Anyone who bought a Ps3 for that reason who didn't find at least one other exclusive they enjoyed on the it simply wasn't looking.

At least one post I saw was from someone who was afraid that Square would turn the game into an FPS so it'd appeal to Halo fans or something.

That's purely a question of taste, it is wholly possible there isn't a single PS3 exclusive they cared about, and they did spend six hundred dollars because Sony and SE told them it would be the only way to play FFXIII.

At the time, the 360 had a considerably better JRPG line up, it was the system of choice for those specific people anyway.

 

[Izick]

8.8 is completely wrong? Gez, imagine if he actually gave it a bad score!

We would have gotten Giant Bomb a year earlier.

 

[Quackula]

That's purely a question of taste, it is wholly possible there isn't a single PS3 exclusive they cared about, and they did spend six hundred dollars because Sony and SE told them it would be the only way to play FFXIII.

At the time, the 360 had a considerably better JRPG line up, it was the system of choice for those specific people anyway.

Eh, perhaps. I doubt that's what was on the mind of most of the people flipping out though.

I doubt anyone is still upset about buying a ps3 just for ff13, at the very least.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I think GS should've at least give the Cube version a 9, so they could've at least avoided some of the backlash. They should've reviewed the versions separately.

I played the GC version first and it was great. The Wii version felt uncomfortable and the Wii-mote did feel tacked on.

Oh well. Those were the days.

 

[Izick]

I think GS should've at least give the Cube version a 9, so they could've at least avoided some of the backlash. They should've reviewed the versions separately.

I played the GC version first and it was great. The Wii version felt uncomfortable and the Wii-mote did feel tacked on.

Oh well. Those were the days.

Why do they need to "avoid backlash"? I mean, let me say this:

A.) They're not supposed to pander to the readers out there when it comes to reviewing games and handing out scores, or at least that's not how it's supposed to work. Maybe in Jeff's mind, there's a huge jump from 8.9 to 9 or something, or maybe he just gave it what he thought it deserved.

B.) From a business perspective:

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Why do they need to "avoid backlash"? I mean, let me say this:

A.) They're not supposed to pander to the readers out there when it comes to reviewing games and handing out scores, or at least that's not how it's supposed to work. Maybe in Jeff's mind, there's a huge jump from 8.9 to 9 or something, or maybe he just gave it what he thought it deserved.

B.) From a business perspective:

Yeah, you're right.

To give my honest opinion on the game, I think the Cube version was superior and deserved a 9 or higher. Not saying that as a Zelda fanboy (although I'm a fan of the series). Since it was a 0.2 difference, I think the Cube versions superiority should've given it a higher score.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkSyWzoyPEY&feature=related

 

[XANDER CAGE]

In retrospect I almost feel like 8.8 is too high for Twilight Princess. I've never been a fan of 100 point scales for media reviews, and I don't think the game is anywhere near worth a 9. After being a rabid fan since Link to the Past, Twilight Princess was the point where I realized that the formula was beginning to come apart at the seams a little.

Then again, I'm not sure if that's more of my distaste for 100 point scales or my apathy towards Twilight Princess showing. I certainly don't hate the game, it's just the least interesting of the 3D Zelda games, in my opinion.

 

[xenist]

Oh, the memories. Us gamers.

Though I shouldn't be speaking. I was listening to Idle Thumbs and when I heard Remo didn't like Diablo 3 that much I hunted him for sport and killed him. Poor Jake has to do the Remo voice on the podcasts now.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

100 point scale fundamentally flawed, etc.

Twilight Princess is certainly the best Zelda since Wind Waker, not that there's been many, and not that that's saying much in the face of its competitors.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I didn't really pay attention to the gaming press back then so I only found out 1-2 years later. Totally ridiculous.

I don't agree with the score though, TP is still the best 3D Zelda in my opinion.

 

[Keasar]

Still salute you Jeff Gerstmann.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Things like these remind me why I left for the OT and stopped reading Gaming Side.

 

[spekkeh]

In retrospect that 8.8 was too high even. I mean objectively (if there's such a thing as objectively) I consider it the best Zelda game ever. Even the tacked on motion controls worked. The only thing I didn't like was that the overworld felt more disjointed than previous games, with huge endlessly deep chasms everywhere.

The problem was that, great Midna and okay Wolf Link aside, the game was wholly derivative of Zelda OoT, with slightly worse pacing. So much of it felt like a retread that I was bored for great parts of the overly long game. In terms of player tilt I wouldn't rate it higher than a six.

In retrospect the ruckus was one of the greatest overblown ridiculous meltdowns in all of gaming culture.

HOWEVER

When you're speaking with the benefit of hindsight, I do feel you need to realize these were different times. All the (somewhat good) major console exclusives in those times got between a 9.4 and a 10. Every single one. Doesn't matter if the reviewer hated it, this was something that was expected to be done. Gerstmann's 8.8 did feel like a break of form, and for someone to do that, you felt it had to be personal somehow. Not trying to argue in favor of the vitriol, just trying to add perspective. The gaming world at that point suddenly started growing up, which made a lot of teens very angsty.

 

[Castef]

And six years later, it's clear that Jeff was right on the money.

This.

Very good game, not an overall great game.

 

[ASIS]

This.

Very good game, not an overall great game.

8.8 signifies a great game. Nearly superb.

 

[BGBW]

I think GS should've at least give the Cube version a 9, so they could've at least avoided some of the backlash. They should've reviewed the versions separately.

I thought they did. They gave the GCN version a 8.9 but concluded the Wii version was better for some perplexing reason. 8.8>8.9 in the world of GameSpot apparently.

Things like these remind me why I left for the OT and stopped reading Gaming Side.

He's say while posting on Gaming Side six years later.

 

[spekkeh]

Oh and:

Zelda 1: 7
Zelda 2: 5
ALttP: 8
OoT: 10
WW: 9
TP: 7
SS: 6

I've never finished Majora's Mask :/, but I don't consider it a main Zelda game anyway.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

He gave it a lukewarm review because he wasn't too jazzed by it evidently. Big wup.

The fanboys chucked their toys out of the pram, because some of them are incredibly sad individuals with little to occupy their lives.

Oh, and this all happened 6 years ago.

Um, that's about it.

 

[Persona86]

Oh and:

Zelda 1: 7
Zelda 2: 5
ALttP: 8
OoT: 10
WW: 9
TP: 7
SS: 6

I've never finished Majora's Mask :/, but I don't consider it a main Zelda game anyway.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

the framerate made it difficult to play even when it was new

 

[zoukka]

Truly a shameful day among gamers and illustrated how immature of a bunch we are.

 

[Jay Sosa]

And six years later, it's clear that Jeff was right on the money.

Nah, he scored it too high. But in a gen where GTA 4 gets a 10 a 8.8 is more of a 5 anyway(which then would be way to low). On a real 10 point scale it's somewhere between 6.5 and 7.5. Good, but nowhere near outstanding.

And I never knew that there was such a huge outrage..

 

[CrankyKong]

Truly a shameful day among gamers and illustrated how immature of a bunch we are.

We're like one giant testicle waiting to drop.

 

[kinoki]

Personally I thought Twilight Princess was good. It looked good. But I got so bored of it after a while that I put it down and never finished it. Still to this day I have no intension of ever getting back and re-playing it.

 

[Resilient]

8.8 was generous. Jeff was right, so was Cap.

 

[def sim]

I came in here expecting the OP to be a bitter fan that still held on to this weird grudge against Jeff, but I'm super glad that I am completely off. The pure vitriol all over a good score made me feel so detached from so many gaming communities and all I can hope is that those people grew up and realized how silly they were being.

 

[Acheteedo]

Nintendo fans for a long time clung onto review scores for validation, they got us through the N64 and Gamecube eras with heads held high. So of course there was a strong reaction to a relatively low score for a high scoring series. You wouldn't get that much of a reaction these days for a number of reasons, e.g. lower expectations for Nintendo games (read lower, not low), a better understanding of reviews being subjective, a general distrust of the media etc.

 

[DjRoomba]

Nothing like this has happened since?

Oh really? I remember a shitload of anger and press over the euro gamer uncharted 3 8/10 review. And just like twilight princess it is only later that people realised that the reviewer was right and just blindly praising a game cos it's in a series before you've actually played and judged the game for yourself, is not the smartest move. Not to mention getting angry over a review is ridiculous, specially one that still rates the game well.

 

[spekkeh]

the framerate made it difficult to play even when it was new

I guess that played some part, but I was primarily irked with how confined the game felt after OoT. Besides I just started going to university back then, so too much stuff going on in my life and a resultant gaming lull until the Gamecube hit. Feel kind of bad about it now, but after the latter Zelda games made me less and less of a fan, I'm not too bothered anymore.

 

[cjkeats]

Ah memories. Some of the things people meltdown about are so dumb. I love it.

 

[ezekielpacman]

Weird seeing so much rage at WW being called a better game, when it truly feels that way looking back.

Also, 8.8 isn't a bad score at all... and I thought it was only recently that there was a shift to the 8-10 scale.

 

[scar tissue]

8.8 is actually exactly what I would give the Wii version of TP.

Horrible, horrible interface and lazy waggle controls. Lifeless overworld, crappy graphics, really slow start.

Many of the dungeons and boss fights were, however, excellent.

Edit: Scratch that, 8.8 is too high. 8.0 is more like it. Or possibly even a 7.5

 

[Android18a]

I find it difficult to argue with the review. I didn't think the review was all that controversial even back then, but I was in my 20's already by then so *shrugs* maybe if I was 16 it would have bothered me.

8.8 is certainly not an unreasonable score, it's well up near the top of the scale and accurately represents the issues the game had on Wii, including but not limited to the half-hearted 'waggle' combat and the infamous bridge save file glitch.

 

[Ingueferroque]

His score was fair, and even generous. He raised valid points.