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[Warm Machine]

I've dumped about 20 hours into Game Dev Story and about 10 hours into Field Runners 2. Played Where's My Water, Fruit Ninja, Tiny Wings, Angry Birds, and Treasures of Montezuma a great deal as well. I can't see how any of those would have been improved with buttons or traditional controls.

The secret to enjoying mobile phone games is to seek out games that are suitable for the platform. There are loads of very good and strategically significant games out there but those disparaging the entire experience are doing so solely out of ignorance or unfounded belief. The fear of phones taking over traditional handhelds is palpable in this thread.

 

[Nightstick11]

Games that interest me.

 

[Mileena]

Bad controls and shallow games, for me at least.

 

[RM8]

The secret to enjoying mobile phone games is to seek out games that are suitable for the platform.

Pretty much. There's really no other approach. As someone who always carries a 3DS I have zero interest in dumbed down, diluted games that try to emulate stuff I can play on my 3DS. I'm okay with experiences unique to the platform.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

Lack of depth, crappy controls, all that has really turned me off. Plus the fact I'd rather game on my Vita than my smart phone.

 

[Warm Machine]

Pretty much. There's really no other approach. As someone who always carries a 3DS I have zero interest in dumbed down, diluted games that try to emulate stuff I can play on my 3DS. I'm okay with experiences unique to the platform.

Just like I don't care about playing Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Wipeout, Killzone, or Uncharted on a portable. I'd rather play Meteos, Brain Training, Nintendogs, PuzzelQuest, or Etrian Odyessy on a platform like that.

 

[RM8]

Just like I don't care about playing Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Wipeout, Killzone, or Uncharted on a portable. I'd rather play Meteos, Brain Training, Nintendogs, PuzzelQuest, or Etrian Odyessy on a platform like that.

But that's more of a portability vs. screen size / control issue. Right now handhelds are capable of console-like games, especially on genres like racers, fighters or platformers. In my case I'd rather have any game on a handheld than on my home consoles of PC, to be honest

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

@I NEED SCISSORS: Not all games require precision? I'd argue every single game ever made is better with having precise controls. And really, the "you can have a ton of virtual buttons on screen!" doesn't fix the fact that they're virtual buttons and automatically not optimal. You can argue they're "okay", you can't argue they're just as good - no one will ever use a touch screen for competitive fighters, shooters, puzzles, etc. Capacitive screens are okay for swiping and tapping here at there, but if they're not even perfect for typing and option like autocorrect are widely used then it's pretty telling. Plus really, covering the screen with virtual buttons is ugly, and that's not even counting your big fat fingers covering part of the screen :/ It's definitely detrimental to the experience. Plus ads, IAPs, ugly amateur art, flash game look, blatant cloning of franchises on other platforms... nope.

Yes, not all games require precision - just because a game is less precise on a phone does not make it unplayable. But I do agree that all games are better with it - this is like the framerate debate, 20fps you can get away with but 60 is obviously preferable. Again, i'm not arguing that phones provide a perfect quality (ie. precise) experience versus a retro console, just that they can provide more quantity of control options more akin to a modern game, and in theory a wider gamut of gameplay options as a result. I would be the first to admit that if you were to break down a mobile game's controls into its individual parts like swipe controls, virtual buttons, accelerometer, etc, they are merely "just okay" on their own terms - but combined together, you are able to do more overall at any given time than you could with just 3 fixed NES buttons (and the NES's interface limitations, visuals etc factored in too). That's where the quality vs quantity comparison comes in, and I think the phone stacks up well.

I'm trying to think up an analogy and I think this is as good as I can do - you can do your laundry in a big fancy machine with a $1 coin. It gets washed better, it's tumble dried for added freshness, but you can only get a couple of items done at once. Or you can separate the laundry out into ten worse machines at 10c each - it's worse, but overall you can get more done quicker this way. Both will ultimately get your washing done with their own perks. Both would therefore be washing and make you, er, a "washer"?

Also, I don't claim that there are no good games for phones or that no kind of game is a good fit. I love Game Dev Story, Puzzle & Dragons, Sonic Jump, Canabalt, Ski Safari, Jetpack Joyride - it's just that those games work because they are dumbed down for a touch device. Even hardcore iOS defenders like SmokeyDave say the best iOS games are those built around the device's input methods, emulating traditional controls is not good at all. If your only argument is that I should consider phones as gaming devices - I do! Just entirely non-traditional and downright incompatible with a ton of gaming experiences.

I guess there is no point really arguing then, since it sounds like we're ultimately on the same page. My first post was mainly in response to people who outright do not consider it a gaming device/for gamers purely because it has no buttons. See the first post in this thread and circle jerk of agreement after. I was trying to show that the people who play them have an equally valid claim to the title of gamer as any other gamer in history when it comes to this control ballpark. Unless of course they think anything pre-SNES era is also not gaming, which is madness.

Controls simply don't factor into it. I think DocSeuss's post probably identified the real reason.

 

[Xenon]

I forgot one.

4. I don't have invisible fingers and thumbs. When your dealing with a 5 inch screen, having it partially blocked when interacting with the game can be a major distraction. This goes double for games with multi-touch. But maybe that's just me and my big ass bear paws.

 

[Warm Machine]

But that's more of a portability vs. screen size / control issue. Right now handhelds are capable of console-like games, especially on genres like racers, fighters or platformers. In my case I'd rather have any game on a handheld than on my home consoles of PC, to be honest

That's your preference. Console games like the Halo, Resident Evil and all I personally prefer on a big screen with 5.1 sound where they can engage me at a high level.

You'll notice every game I listed that I would prefer on a handheld format is a game or genre that would and does easily transfer to touch/mobile. That probably explains why I haven't bothered to buy a 3DS while I previously owned 2 DSs and a number of carts. You can't sell me a handheld to play Far Cry. The format is wrong for me to experience and enjoy a massive lush world like that.

 

[Silvawuff]

Poor controls, games with heavy IAP, and games of poor/shallow quality.

There are a lot of good mobile games out there that do it right, though.

 

[Cerity]

Depth and controls.

I've put a tonne of hours into games on my phone and they were always games that work well with a touch screen. But even then they're still mostly flash level equivalent games.

Controls are the other thing. I've tried playing games with a bunch of emulators and ones with onscreen controls. The precision just isn't there, on a physical controller I know exactly where my fingers are going because I can actually feel where they are in relation to the shape of the controller and the other buttons. All I get on a touch screen is some vibration, the only way I know which button I pressed is through feedback in the game, which can get very frustrating. I certaintly like using touch screen for menu heavy stuff but for the traditional game, a well designed menu isn't that much more effort to navigate.

 

[rohlfinator]

Controls simply don't factor into it. I think DocSeuss's post probably identified the real reason.

Controls absolutely factor into it. If your preferred genres don't work on a touchscreen, mobile gaming is going to suck for you.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Controls absolutely factor into it. If your preferred genres don't work on a touchscreen, mobile gaming is going to suck for you.

.. 'it' being the overall acceptance of the platform as a gaming device and its users as legitimate gamers.

If a person doesn't like all mobile gaming, it sucks to be them I guess, but that doesn't change the classification of what it is.

Using popularity to gauge who's the winner of the 'true gamerz' fight doesn't work either, since mobile gaming (and social Facebook gaming) now trump traditional gaming in terms of numbers.

 

[RM8]

That's your preference. Console games like the Halo, Resident Evil and all I personally prefer on a big screen with 5.1 sound where they can engage me at a high level.

You'll notice every game I listed that I would prefer on a handheld format is a game or genre that would and does easily transfer to touch/mobile. That probably explains why I haven't bothered to buy a 3DS while I previously owned 2 DSs and a number of carts. You can't sell me a handheld to play Far Cry. The format is wrong for me to experience and enjoy a massive lush world like that.

Yeah, cinematic games are not a good fit for handhelds. But not because of dumbed down controls, that's my point.

 

[Mario]

What's holding mobile gaming back from acceptance from the gamer audience?

IMO

- a lack of major platform manufacturer running meaningful PR evangelizing the merits of the devices for gaming on a regular and ongoing basis

- a lack of awareness of the breadth and depth of quality titles that are already available, and the current state of discovery being poor not making changing that any easier

- prejudices about what a game is and how they should control

- notions that this is an "either or" problem rather than seeing mobile as being able to fit into the gaming ecosystem in a complementary way rather than it outright "replacing" something

- very real device limitations which currently limit the experiences that can be delivered in terms of performance, interaction, and audio/visual quality and delivery, especially in terms of being able to accurately replicate or leverage many existing gaming paradigms


So, I consider it mainly a knowledge and positioning issue that will resolve over time as the mobile platforms and market themselves mature.

 

[Fewr]

1. Buttons
This is the most important reason for me. I remember I got gunman clive for iOS and didn't like it at all, then I got it for 3DS and couldn't get enough of it.


2. Why make an effort and produce a good game for a decent price when someone else will surely make a mediocre one at a lower price and do better? Even if you are not on a direct competition with another game, people will just add it to their wishlist and wait for the price to drop to $1/free (at least I do this)

3. I hate Free to Play. If I don't feel like I'm wasting money on a game I will forget about in a week then I feel I'm wasting my time grinding in a game I will forget about in a week.

4. There are too many games out there on those platforms. So many that I get the ROM effect in which I play a lot of games, but don't fully enjoy any of them. This is why I don't pirate games, and probably also the reason for my spending very little time with these games.

 

[RM8]

- notions that this is an "either or" problem rather than seeing mobile as being able to fit into the gaming ecosystem in a complementary way rather than it outright "replacing" something

I don't think anyone dismisses good software planned from scratch with touch devices in mind. When you see "gamers" not "accepting" phone gaming is mostly as something equivalent to say, 3DS or PS3 in terms of quantity and quality of traditional gaming experiences.

 

[RedSwirl]

Like a lot of people said, buttons and how shallow the games are, though I think the shallowness of most mobile games is the real problem.

Certain kinds of games can work very well on a touch screen, but so far I've only played one original mobile game that felt designed to hold my interest for more than 30 minutes at a time -- Sword and Sworcery. All other games that didn't feel like five-minute time wasters have been ports of console and PC games.

The main thing holding the depth of mobile games down in my opinion is the price ceiling. For $1 no one can really hope to sell a legitimately lengthy experience. I feel like this wouldn't be a problem if people could get away with selling $30 or $40 iOS and Android games. If a developer could release an iOS version of Virtue's Last Reward or something day-and-date with the 3DS or Vita version at the same price, depending on the game I might be willing to buy the iOS version. I'm actually waiting for the iOS versions of all the Phoenix Wright games.

 

[Curufinwe]

Gaming on my iPhone 4S holds no appeal for me. If I'm home there are eight other devices with better games on them; if I'm out I would much rather kill time on twitter or browsing GAF.

 

[rohlfinator]

.. 'it' being the overall acceptance of the platform as a gaming device and its users as legitimate gamers.

If a person doesn't like all mobile gaming, it sucks to be them I guess, but that doesn't change the classification of what it is.

I don't think anyone in this thread is truly arguing that it's not a "legitimate platform", whatever that means. But that's sort of getting into an argument of semantics.

People tend to be more dismissive of platforms that don't interest them. And controls are a big reason for the lack of interest.

 

[flak57]

People. At least say you can't hack it with the touch controls and leave it at that.

But making claims about a game library based on no real knowledge of it at all, and simply a "gut feeling" you randomly have about how there aren't many games with "depth" in them, or that they are all quick diversions is just dumb. There is an endless sea of games in a WIDE variety of genres, although sure, many people don't want to play a lot of those genres with a touch screen (and many do).

Below are a bunch of RTS, TBS, western style ARPGs, JRPGs, Adventure games, and a few random others. These are some of the kinds of genres that don't usually require much precision movement.

Every picture can be clicked on to see a youtube vid of that game.



There are so so many more.

And a million ports of "hardcore" games as well, many work just fine with a touch screen.

Broken sword 1 and 2
Monkey island 1 and 2
Simon the sorcerer 1 and 2
Inheret the earth
Beneath a steel sky
Gobliiins 1 and 2 ( and 3?)
Flight of the Amazon Queen
Wizardry
Bard's Tale
Spectral Souls
Ghost Trick
FFT
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy
Blazing souls
World Ends with You
Secret of Mana

 

[marrec]

Monetization methods.

You don't need complicated controls for a compelling game. Look to Candy Box for the future.

 

[Shai-Tan]

there are quite a few games you listed there that look plausibly good. thanks for listing them. I will check out a few of the ones I didn't know about. with that said, there's a big gulf between looking plausibly good and actually being good relative to other games in the same genre. like I don't expect a $1 dungeon crawler to be as good as etrian odyssey 4 or legend of grimrock but I'd wonder if it was better than a random one I could get on psp or ds which illustrates the problem isn't just discoverability it's also the lack of equivalent critical media

 

[Like the hat?]

I like games on my ipad that are made around a touch screen, or work best with a touch screen (hello, plants vs zombies!) but in general, if I am looking to play a game, I will fire up my 3ds or my wii u or one of my classic systems. I don't really know why. I just have more fun playing with buttons generally. I am yet to really enjoy myself playing an ipad game where I have to use like a virtual stick or virtual dpad or something.

 

[Philia]

It's a god damn phone. I don't want to play games on my phone.

.

 

[specialguy]

For me?

Touch controls (hard to get around this on the go, which is the only time I'll phone game)

Poor graphics (yes Modern Combat 4 looks good for a phone game, still cannot provide graphical jaw dropping, looks much like a Xbox game or so)

Battery life. It will drain your phone fast!

 

[Mashing]

They are shallow gaming experiences (talking about 99% of the crap, there is the one 1% that are not).

 

[therapist]

It is indeed the controls.

 

[Alexios]

People. At least say you can't hack it with the touch controls and leave it at that.

But making claims about a game library based on no real knowledge of it at all, and simply a "gut feeling" you randomly have about how there aren't many games with "depth" in them, or that they are all quick diversions is just dumb.

That's not all people have said, they've also said the games with depth are old ports they don't care about or new ports they don't care to play without physical controls or they're also simply bad or bad copycats of better titles, etc, and many (not all, Ravenmark is awesome, I did say there are exceptions) of your examples fit in those categories regardless of the trouble you went through in order to present tiny colorful screenshots and videos. Most have also acknowledged there are titles in certain genres like board games, which not everyone is into. You're the one being silly saying all people have against it is their own inability to use touch controls and ignorance of the library. Many of those games are available on other platforms too, but people either played them already or don't want them there either. I've played things like that Dragon Quest clone (Dragon Fantasy was it?), the third person hack and slash tower defense game with the knights there (so good I don't remember its name, I won't click to see a video of what I've played), Autumn Dynasty, and many others. Sorry but they don't cut it and being cheaper than the real deal (I guess the new rage is those Elder Scrolls-likes) doesn't make me spend more time on things I don't enjoy. It's too bad you can't deal with other opinions without calling them ignorant. Also, you didn't post great exceptions like the newest Spiderweb games which are new real CRPGs that aren't ancient ports or bad copycats, you should look into them if you can't get them on better platforms though they're also not for everyone. Personally I get them on PC because while I do want to be engaged in my gaming time and go back to the same game again and again I don't think they're very portable friendly and control is easier and more precise with the mouse on a large screen without having to zoom in and out. There's a middle ground to find here that good developers know how to tackle based on the strengths of the platform. It's not ignorance that stops me from playing more games on iOS, it's that there have been few games that appeal to me enough vs the countless other games I can choose to play on another platform. That's not my fault.

 

[flak57]

That's not all people have said, they've also said the games with depth are old ports they don't care about or new ports they don't care to play without physical controls or they're also simply bad or bad copycats of better titles, etc, and many if not all your examples fit in those categories regardless of the trouble you went to in order to present tiny colorful screenshots and videos.

Empty words. Cite specifics.

Most have also acknowledged there are titles in certain genres like board games, which not everyone is into. You're the one being silly saying all people have against it is their own inability to use touch controls and ignorance of the library. Many of those games are available on other platforms too, but people who say they don't want them on iOS don't play them on other platforms either.

As I stated people not liking touch controls is valid. And I am repeating: Anyone in this thread saying there are not many games that are not "shallow" on mobile platforms do not know what they are talking about, whether or not they can adjust to touch controls.

As for many games being on other consoles, irrelevant. Many games for all systems are on other consoles, it does not make mobile gaming less legit. Is a console game no longer a good game because the PC version is superior? Is RE:R no longer a good 3DS game because it is coming to consoles, but better?

I've played things like that Dragon Quest clone (Dragon Fantasy was it?), the third person hack and slash tower defense game with the knights there (so good I don't remember its name, I won't click to see a video of what I've played), Autumn Dynasty, and many others. Sorry but they don't cut it and being cheaper than the real deal (I guess the new rage is those Elder Scrolls-likes) doesn't make me spend more time on things I don't enjoy. It's too bad you can't deal with other opinions without calling them ignorant. Also, you didn't post great exceptions like the newest Spiderweb games which are new real CRPGs that aren't ancient ports or bad copycats, you should look into them if you can't get them on better platforms. Personally I get them on PC because while I do want to be engaged in my gaming time and go back to the same game again and again I don't think they're very portable friendly. Control is also easier and more precise with the mouse on a large screen without having to zoom in and out. There's a middle ground to find here that good developers know how to tackle based on the strengths of the platform.

Okay, you listed what, 4 games there? Games that you don't personally like but seem to be generally well regarded, from what I have read. How about the other 50 games there. Or the 500 others that are not listed here.

 

[Tain]

The main reason I've yet to take iOS/Android seriously as a platform is because I have yet to try an exclusive that is compelling enough to take my attention away from everything else. It's as simple as that. If I'm playing a game with any level of focus I'm going to be at home, so these devices have to compete with the libraries of all of the other platforms I have. The touch controls are a serious limitation, of course, but one that can be worked around in certain genres.

While I've found every acclaimed game that I've tried to be pretty dull at best, I don't doubt that there will be an exclusive I'll eventually need to play on these things.

I also wonder what the games would look like if everything weren't priced so low.

 

[Damian.]

no buttons

Thread should have been closed after this reply.

 

[TrutaS]

For me it's the Free to Play market. I just hate with all my might.

 

[JulianImp]

Here're my thoughts (though this's a moderately educated guess at best):

• The games industry was mostly built around the gamepad (and mouse + keyboard for PCs), so many design standars that were developed over the years were built around these input methods and are considerably hard to reproduce on touch devices
• The mobile app market is oversaturated, making exposure harder to get and overemphasising the first few moments after a game's release before it gets drowned by the flood of other releases
• The race to the bottom in mobile game prices means you can't throw lots of polish into a game without seriously compromising your chances of making a profit if you intend to sell the game for $0.99; you could fix that a bit if your game has a relatively large following, but that requires time and/or money
• Since you're playing on a device that can interrupt your gaming sessions with calls, facebook updates, tweets, or several other kinds of distractions, mobile gaming is usually about bite-sized activities while that doesn't happen with handheld consoles where you can expect players to stick around for longer gaming sessions
• Due to the hyperconectivity model mobile devices are going for right now, players are expected to stick around less time than they would in a dedicated gaming device, so several design concepts were created to entice players in this kind of environment (ie: short game sessions, instant gratification and filling progress bars); mobile gaming has had more psychological and behavioural research put into it than regular games in order to optimize this
• The "casual game" boom emphasized treating games as revenue streams to be optimized as much as possible, often to the detriment of other fields such as game design; hence lots of A-B testing and repeating of popular game mechanics and/or aesthetics, which are often taken out of context (not that it is necesarily bad, but I believe it results in looser designs that don't work as well as more tightly-designed games')

 

[Alexios]

Okay, you listed what, 4 games there? Games that you don't personally like but seem to be generally well regarded, from what I have read. How about the other 50 games there. Or the 500 others that are not listed here.

Don't be silly, I'm not gonna write an essay just to get another kneejerk reaction from you about how I don't cite specifics and when I do cite specifics that I don't cite enough of them or whatever. Just as you didn't list your so called 500 games but were only passionate enough to list 50 I'm not gonna comment on each and every one of them. I made my point using examples. Your list is riddled with shitty games and that's my opinion regardless of how TouchArcade and fans rated them. But ok, I'll add one more, those space games suck too. Galaxy on Fire 2 and the others that are less action and more RPG-like. GoF2 sucks on PC too, it's just a shitty game regardless of how cheap it is and on what platform it is and how well regarded it might be in some circles. Having bullet points like depth doesn't mean they're good enough. Nor that I'll be passionate as you are about it and make a comment on all of them. Shit, you haven't even played all of them yourself but go from what you heard, why would I be more passionate than you? Yes, I heard they were good too, hence I bought many of them, and now I've stopped listening. I dunno what 3DS has to do with anything, I don't own one and can't comment on it other than how I'm considering getting one for Monster Hunter 3U and 4 which are games I know I'll spend hundreds of hours on even though they're relatively portable short session friendly too and it has other exclusives games I could get on top of that if I ever do make the jump, games that aren't copycats or gimped in control schemes or unsuitable for the platform. I don't see what that has to do with anything, I didn't make any points about 3DS. And yes, there's a difference with a Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy III and King of Dragon Pass port and having a game on your platform first and for a good long while and alongside many other games people want before it goes elsewhere. But again I wasn't making any point about other platforms I don't own being better or worse, just what I think of this platform and how what I think isn't based on ignorance contrary to your claim.

 

[Zia]

Willful ignorance.

 

[flak57]

Don't be silly, I'm not gonna write an essay. Just as you didn't list 500 games but were only passionate enough to list 50 I'm not gonna comment on each and every one of them. I made my point using examples. But ok, those space games suck too. Galaxy on Fire 2 and the others that are less action and more RPG-like. GoF2 sucks on PC too. I've tried them. Having bullet points like depth doesn't mean they're good enough. Nor that I'll be passionate as you are about it and make a comment on all of them. Shit, you haven't even played all of them yourself but go from what you heard, come on. Yes, I heard they were good too, hence I bought them. They weren't.

If you aren't going to go into great detail, then there is no sense in arguing. I have presented evidence of my claim, and you have nothing generalities and about (now 6!) games that you have experience with. By the way, saying a game sucks means nothing to the argument, although I listed games that are generally well regarded. The argument was that the games on mobile have no "depth". Could you articulate how the games I listed have no depth?

And for a random comment, there are probably more RTS and western Hack n Slash games in my list up there than exists on the entirety of all dedicated handhelds released ever, combined.

 

[Alexios]

If you aren't going to go into great detail, then there is no sense in arguing.

I went in enough detail. More than you in fact. You just posted a big list and "generalities" on top about all of them together. I said enough to show your list isn't proof of anything considering much of what it included.

One could make a list for any platform, just posting videos and talking about how well regarded they all are or whatever, doesn't mean you'd become as passionate about it as you seem to be over iOS or that I'd buy it.

I have presented evidence of my claim, and you have nothing generalities and about (now 6!) games that you have experience with.

I have experience with many more and even praised a handful I thought deserved it in the past. Also, see above.

By the way, saying a game sucks means nothing to the argument, although I listed games that are generally well regarded.

No, saying they're good and deep means nothing.

The argument was that the games on mobile have no "depth". Could you articulate how the games I listed have no depth?

Why would I articulate that when my point was no depth was far from all people have said against the platform?

And for a random comment, there are probably more RTS and western Hack n Slash games in my list up there than exists on the entirety of all dedicated handhelds released ever, combined.

Yes, random is right.

I own an iPad2, I've enjoyed some games on it, I've hated tons, and there's little I look forward to. For myself. You can feel different. For yourself. That doesn't make me ignorant. Just you pushy.

 

[flak57]

I went in enough detail.

I'll comment on the 50 when you comment on the 500.

I've listed what, 50 games that are in genres generally considered "hardcore". THAT was my evidence. I'm sure these iphone ones are special and not "deep" like the ones on other systems though. These RPGs and strategy games are just "quick diversions", of course. Please, the insinuation people make is that there isn't much on the system not akin to flash games.

No, saying they're good and deep means nothing when they aren't good.

It sort of means everything when that was my point, regardless of the fact that these games are generally well received and that it's obvious that the people saying mobile has no depth likely did not even know they existed.

Why would I articulate that when my point was "no depth" was far from all people have said against the platform?

Maybe you shouldn't have quoted me then.

"But making claims about a game library based on no real knowledge of it at all, and simply a "gut feeling" you randomly have about how there aren't many games with "depth" in them, or that they are all quick diversions is just dumb."

Yes, this is random and meaningless.

So if you want those genres on the go, mobile is likely the best platform, if you can play with a touch screen of course. That sounds pretty meaningful to me.

 

[entremet]

I'm a pretty big mobile gamer. I beat Secret of Mana, most of the Cave games, and other games.

 

[Alexios]

I've listed what, 50 games that are in genres generally considered "hardcore". THAT was my evidence. I'm sure these iphone ones are special and not "deep" like the ones on other systems though. These RPGs and strategy games are just "quick diversions", of course. Please, the insinuation people make is that there isn't much on the system not akin to flash games.

List wars don't mean shit, you should know that.

And there are hardcore flash games, what's your point about that, huh? I enjoyed things like Monsters' Den: Book of Dread more than games in your list regardless of how well regarded or deep you might claim they are.

Maybe you shouldn't have quoted me then.

Why not? I specifically quoted you to tell you that no, the lack of depth isn't all people have said, nor is it all based on their ignorance. Because you were again all about "generalities" like you were with your list wars.

Maybe you should have read my posts if you thought you were arguing against someone saying there's no depth there. You're just delving into semantics now, claiming you just said ignorance is bad to use without pointing fingers, when it's clear you were pretending that's all this thread was about, ignorance, which I demonstrated it isn't regardless of your opinion and the number of games you think I should comment on to prove a point.

But ok, if that's all you wanted to say, yes, ignorance is bad to base things on, it's good most people here don't have that (but still aren't necessarily into mobile gaming).

So if you want those genres on the go, mobile is likely the best platform, if you can play with a touch screen of course. That sounds pretty meaningful to me.

No, because having those genres doesn't mean the specific games appeal to you more than games you can get elsewhere. You're posting bullet points. People don't buy bullet points. They buy games they really want.

A deep game you don't enjoy is a quick diversion you give up on. You don't spend hours on it if it's not good enough for you regardless of depth bullet points.

 

[Mugaaz]

I accept it just fine, there are plenty of good to great mobile games. I'd turn the question around though. Why do mobile games think they deserve to be held in the same regard as console and PC games? They are not the same, at all. Just like TV is not the same as movies, mobile games arent the same as console/pc games. There are fundamental differences in design, length, controls, display, graphic, and experiences.

 

[mantidor]

The truth is no one actually cares.

This is not surprising, we know what Jobs thought about games, the manufacturers really don't care much about games so why would it be a thriving platform? Gaming is not even an afterthought for them. And no, having a "games" section in their online stores is not interest.

I agree that buttons are not the problem, great experiences can be had with touch controls, but we still don't have the "Mario" of touch controls on a mobile device, and getting one requires far more effort than what developers have put into the platforms, and for that there would need to be an incentive, and only the mmanufacturers can give it. Until then, devs will just port games and do the minimum effort possible.

 

[flak57]

List wars don't mean shit, you should know that.

That barely even makes sense.

And there are deep hardcore flash games, what's your point about that, huh?

True.

Why not? I specifically quoted you to tell you that no, the lack of depth isn't all people have said, nor is it all based on their ignorance. Because you were again all about "generalities" like you were with your list wars. Maybe you should have read my posts if you thought you were arguing against someone saying there's no depth there.

"But making claims about a game library based on no real knowledge of it at all, and simply a "gut feeling" you randomly have about how there aren't many games with "depth" in them, or that they are all quick diversions is just dumb."

Should I keep re-posting that until you realize that I only every talked about how depth? How much more clear can I be? Telling me people said other things that they don't like about mobile gaming is like telling me that your couch is comfy. It's unrelated.

No, because having those genres doesn't mean the specific games appeal to you more than games you can get elsewhere. You're posting bullet points. People don't buy bullet points. They buy games they really want.

No idea what you're saying.

Edit:
If this confused you -

"People. At least say you can't hack it with the touch controls and leave it at that. "

I'll highlight this first word here to make things more clear -

"But making claims about a game library based on no real knowledge of it at all, and simply a "gut feeling" you randomly have about how there aren't many games with "depth" in them, or that they are all quick diversions is just dumb. There is an endless sea of games in a WIDE variety of genres, although sure, many people don't want to play a lot of those genres with a touch screen (and many do)."

2nd Edit!
It was a tongue in cheek segue into my point, but I can see how it could be taken the way you took it. That actually explains the whole disconnect in the conversation.

 

[GungHo]

Too much chaff. Not enough wheat. Too many games (especially remakes/ports) try to fit an old control schema (e.g. virtual d-pads or buttons) rather than taking advantage of the touchscreen. Freemium interruptions with virtual panhandling are annoying and frankly predatory.

Note: I do actually enjoy crap like Angry Birds or Solitare games that I can play on my iPad while watching TV, so I'm not saying I'm too good for it.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Mobile gaming is "real" gaming. I think the trick is the characteristics of the mobile world create a gaming ecosystem that may be in some ways incompatible with other gaming communities.

The mobile world itself is about subsidies, monetization, and ephemeral platforms. A mobile device is something semi-disposable. You upgrade and swap out every season. The mentality of the average mobile user may be inherently based around microtransactions and charges - because that stuff pre-dates games becoming big on mobile.

As a result mobile games being commonly predicated on monetization schemes and ultrashort burst play where money can be converted into time to power the experience is natural for the format. Even if there are many "traditional" games published on mobile, they don't define the experience or the baseline ecosystem.

Even the lack of physical buttons isn't really the fundamental aspect of mobile that keeps it apart from other spheres of gaming, IMO.

 

[MushroomSamba]

I get the control argument, and as a platformer fan, control is everything to me. While I never experienced an instance where I felt touch controls would be superior to buttons, I have to say I've at least played a few that the difference was negligible.

In fact, Wind-Up Knight is quite possibly one of the best platformers I've played in awhile. It's got pretty functional and responsive controls.

Every picture can be clicked on to see a youtube vid of that game.

Nice post! I'll be sure to check a few of these out when I get the time.

 

[DarkKyo]

Not interested in such simplistic franchises/titles.

 

[j0hnny_385]

/cut

Whoaaaaaaaaa. Thanks for this!