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What's holding mobile gaming back from being widely accepted by "gamers"?
- Thread starter Dacvak
- Start date
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
I'm holding my iPhone in my hand as I type this. If Apple added a little A and B button to the right of the screen (in portrait mode) and a little Dpad to the left, and maybe L and R buttons, I would be all over mobile gaming. I just can't stand those capacitive screen controls. So inaccurate. So useless for many genres.
j0hnny_385
Member
Lack of controls for me.
iOS is a great gaming platform with some amazing games out there, but unfortunately other than Cut the Rope and other titles that work great with toch controls, most games are a chore.
iOS is a great gaming platform with some amazing games out there, but unfortunately other than Cut the Rope and other titles that work great with toch controls, most games are a chore.
It's not that I don't think they are 'real' games, they just usually aren't for me with a few exceptions.
Battery life. If I burn through my 3DS battery on the train, it's not a problem, but I need my phone for work and so rarely let the battery drop under 50%.
Ease of finding decent software. The store is crammed with shovelware on IOS and the reviews are useless.
Controls. There's a limit to what you can do with touch controls and gyro alone. I like having the option of touch screen/stylus/gyro/d-pad/stick/buttons. While 'endless runners' are OK, I've pretty much found the tight controls of 2D classic platformers just don't work on a touch screen, they need to be redesigned from the ground up and even then I miss the proper d-pad. Shmups work fine, run-and-gun doesn't. It just limits the options a bit- turn-based games, puzzles and tower defence are all fine, and there's plenty of other stuff it does well like game dev story etc, but I like having the option of frantic stuff like contra and monster hunter without feeling like I'm fighting the controls.
The most played games on my phone are Quarrel, Plants vs Zombies, R-Type and Fruit Ninja. I like them all, total spend- about £2, but I haven't bought any new software in well over 18 months since the novelty of having good-looking games on my phone wore off.
I think it's something that will change with time- most of us grew up with games requiring sticks/d-pads and multiple buttons and the effortd of touch screens to replicate them have been poor, but these days people are getting into gaming via tablets and iPod touches etc, so I think mobile gaming has a bright future as that generation's memories are all based around stuff like fruit ninja rather than mega man. Also tablets are a natural home for strategy games, so I can see myself with one for gaming in the future even if I never really get into mobile phone games.
Battery life. If I burn through my 3DS battery on the train, it's not a problem, but I need my phone for work and so rarely let the battery drop under 50%.
Ease of finding decent software. The store is crammed with shovelware on IOS and the reviews are useless.
Controls. There's a limit to what you can do with touch controls and gyro alone. I like having the option of touch screen/stylus/gyro/d-pad/stick/buttons. While 'endless runners' are OK, I've pretty much found the tight controls of 2D classic platformers just don't work on a touch screen, they need to be redesigned from the ground up and even then I miss the proper d-pad. Shmups work fine, run-and-gun doesn't. It just limits the options a bit- turn-based games, puzzles and tower defence are all fine, and there's plenty of other stuff it does well like game dev story etc, but I like having the option of frantic stuff like contra and monster hunter without feeling like I'm fighting the controls.
The most played games on my phone are Quarrel, Plants vs Zombies, R-Type and Fruit Ninja. I like them all, total spend- about £2, but I haven't bought any new software in well over 18 months since the novelty of having good-looking games on my phone wore off.
I think it's something that will change with time- most of us grew up with games requiring sticks/d-pads and multiple buttons and the effortd of touch screens to replicate them have been poor, but these days people are getting into gaming via tablets and iPod touches etc, so I think mobile gaming has a bright future as that generation's memories are all based around stuff like fruit ninja rather than mega man. Also tablets are a natural home for strategy games, so I can see myself with one for gaming in the future even if I never really get into mobile phone games.
But PCs are better at gaming than dedicated consoles
There's always a balance between 'better' and 'slightly worse but more convenient'. The console/PC thing sits in that slot for me rather than the 'completely different controls and games' divide between consoles and mobile.
Seeing as someone mentioned photography up thread, here's my take on it-
A professional photographer covering an event where they need to move quickly and be on their feet for 20 hours carrying three bags of kit might well choose their second-best machine and ditch their tripod if its a couple of kilograms lighter and allows them to move faster, be more agile for composing better shots of fast-moving people and carry several different lens instead etc, and cheaper to replace if it gets damaged. Technically worse but a reasonable solution based on their individual situation. I commission photography for a living and it's not the people with the best kit that always get the best results, unless its in a studio under controlled conditions, at which point they also need to have the technical ability to get the most out of the kit they have to make it worth the outlay. Even rookie snappers can get press-quality results with entry-level gear, and the vast majority of viewers won't be able to tell any difference whatsoever.
Crap analogy but you know why I mean- specs aren't everything unless you are really, really into your tech- show it to most of your mates and they will squint a bit and not be able to see much of a difference. But if it makes you happy knowing that you have the fastest machine this side of NASA, then knock yourself out, that's what hobbies are for
This is it for me, no buttons makes any control scheme inaccurate and woolly. Combine this with the fact that nearly every game on the platform is complete and utter turd and you lose viability.
I think the lack of variety in phone games is truly remarkable, despite there being hundreds of thousands of games, the actual number of different experiences can be counted on one hand (I'm going to exclude ham-fisted ports of decade old games from this, they have their own problems).
In the end, bad games will make the platform inviable, the same way it has done all the other times mobile phones were supposed to take over from handhelds over the past decade.
Seen them around campus quite a bit. It's a little funny that you cite the Vita as a sign that handhelds are dying but immediately go on to say "WELL THE 3DS IS ONLY POPULAR BECAUSE KIDS."
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Even apart from the control issues, it's just that the software is a bit shit. I've had both an Android device and iPhone and the games aren't a patch on what can be found on dedicated systems.
Crap analogy but you know why I mean- specs aren't everything unless you are really, really into your tech- show it to most of your mates and they will squint a bit and not be able to see much of a difference. But if it makes you happy knowing that you have the fastest machine this side of NASA, then knock yourself out, that's what hobbies are for
Yeah I know what you mean, I have a gaming PC but spend a lot of time playing on my PS3 and handhelds for a lot of different reasons, even if a game has a PC port.
To me though that same argument can be reversed to apply to iPhone gaming... it's not the BEST thing ever, sure, but I have it in my pocket at all times. Can I emulate FFV on my desktop PC and play it? Sure, but if I have it on my phone I am way more likely to pop it out every once in a while for a quick fix.
Mobile gaming has a LOT of crap, for sure. Then again, the DS had a similar amount of crap and you had to spend $30 to find out, but the DS is still one of my favorite systems of all time.
iOS has a lot of good games that were made from the ground up with touch controls in mind, and a lot of decent ports that use touch controls adequately but were obviously not made with it in mind. There are deep RPGs that were ported over from other systems. They don't sell well, so you don't see many get ported these days. I played through all of Ghost Trick on iOS, it was entirely touch based on the DS anyway.
You can make a game work for touch, it doesn't make touch inherently shit. There are a lot of amazing DS games that proved that already.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
I've tried to "get into" mobile gaming but I'm currently limited to a mobile phone. Playing games on such a small screen is annoynig for someone like me with big hands. My fingers cover the screen half the time so I can't see what I'm doing. I think I'd give it another go if there was physical buttons to press.
And people have mentioned it before but yes, the software is pretty bad. You get your Angry Birds and Cut the Rope stuff every now and then but eventually that gets put on to PCs and the like. No buttons, little appealing software, no deal.
And people have mentioned it before but yes, the software is pretty bad. You get your Angry Birds and Cut the Rope stuff every now and then but eventually that gets put on to PCs and the like. No buttons, little appealing software, no deal.
SneakyStephan
Banned
indeed, the games are fundamentally crippled to work without buttons, and not having tactile feedback is awful too.
I'll never take mobile gaming seriously.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
It isn't just about buttons, it's about quality games. How many games on ios do you see that's on the level of kid icarus, uncharted golden abyss and SMT IV. None. One out the reasons why is because of price. You just can't sell those games for 99 cents.
No. The vita is built specifically for gaming, from the inside and out. Remember that Carmack quote about consoles and PC's? The same thing applies here.[/quote]
Racing games are somewhat playable without buttons but i still prefer them. Compare NFS most wanted vita to any ios racer and you'll see what I'm talking about.
No it wouldn't have been successful. Why did the xperia play flop? It flopped because of price, marketing and lack of killer app games. And lol@ your 3ds criticism.
dragonelite
Member
Im not sub 12 years old anymore so dont need a ds or a castrated console like the vita. And touch gaming sucks ass. And longest traveling time is like 20 min without really someone to talk with.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to see console games as relevant to me; mobile gaming is a very, very distant stretch. If something grabs my attention, I'll play it, but it's unlikely. I loathe playing games with unsuitable input methods and a touch screen is about as close to unsuitable as you can get for most games.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Having recently gotten a phone that can play such games I can finally say from experience that the controls are beyond terrible (especially for someone with big fingers), the games mostly so, and they drain my phones battery in no time. I'm sure there are some good games but I've quicklym lost interest in phone gaming. Its only good for blowing off a few minutes here or there but checking something online is more enjoyable so it doesn't even win there.
Edit: heck I'm sitting here 30 min early for work, thought about playing a phone game but its obvious what I chose instead. Kind of wish I brought my 3ds, could have knocked out another level in luigis mansion.
Edit: heck I'm sitting here 30 min early for work, thought about playing a phone game but its obvious what I chose instead. Kind of wish I brought my 3ds, could have knocked out another level in luigis mansion.
This. I need physical buttons.
thesuperfunk
Member
MikeE21286
Member
The main reason for me is no buttons.
Lots of the games are complete throw-aways too
Lots of the games are complete throw-aways too
If more mobile games supported external controllers like the Moga Pro, a lot of the issues people have with mobile games would dissipate immediately. It was the only way I could stomach playing the otherwise great Sega ports of Jet Set Radio and Sonic CD. Playing ShadowGun: Deadzone with it nearly breaks the game and gives an obscene advantage! And that's a shame. Should be standard.
fluffydelusions
Member
Was about to post the same thing.
There are some things and actions that you simply can't do with a touch-screen. As long as mobiles and smartphones give preference to touch than integrate both, mobile games can't compare to 3DS or Vita (LOL) games, as far quality is concerned.
Also, there is a huge issue with quality. Appstores became the refuge for low quality games. It's Sturgeon's law at it's finest
Also, there is a huge issue with quality. Appstores became the refuge for low quality games. It's Sturgeon's law at it's finest
Oh, absolutely, the mobile games on my phone are fine for burning 5 minutes when I don't have a bag with me, and I take your point about cheap games and shovelware. I've bought several £25 turkeys over the years, particularly on the GB in the early 90s.
Agree on touch too- I didn't even mind the touch controls for Zelda (blowing into the microphone and the repeat dungeon were a step too far), and lots of DS games worked well with it. I just don't think a touch -only system could be my only handheld when I like my action games too much, it's a personal thing for me really, I can totally see how mobile games can fill someone else's need for pocket gaming.
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
I was a Mobile only games for years, and I loved it. Recently, though, in a search for deeper experiences and better controls I bought a 3DS XL and couldn't be happier.
Mobile Gaming can be AMAZING. I love so much about it. One of the biggest issues is that a ton of great developers still ignore it, not saying that a ton of greats haven't sprung up to fill the void. Games not being made to take advantage of the platform is another issue. As it turns out the game genres I love playing most are best suited to physical controls.
It's been a good, long time since I was engaged long-term by a mobile game. Usually they are super fun, short experiences that you play a bunch (Like arcade games), which can be amazing but I find myself wanting meatier games like on my 3DS.
Maybe what people always said is true. Maybe it's the price of these things that are holding them back. If app games cost $15-20, people would demand and expect more and would hopefully GET richer experiences as well as fewer garbage games.
I can have as much fun with a mobile game as any other kind, and I think gamers are coming around. On gaming podcasts App discussion is a constant thing, for the most part. I just hope mobile developers don't strangle this baby in the crib before it has time to grow.
Mobile Gaming can be AMAZING. I love so much about it. One of the biggest issues is that a ton of great developers still ignore it, not saying that a ton of greats haven't sprung up to fill the void. Games not being made to take advantage of the platform is another issue. As it turns out the game genres I love playing most are best suited to physical controls.
It's been a good, long time since I was engaged long-term by a mobile game. Usually they are super fun, short experiences that you play a bunch (Like arcade games), which can be amazing but I find myself wanting meatier games like on my 3DS.
Maybe what people always said is true. Maybe it's the price of these things that are holding them back. If app games cost $15-20, people would demand and expect more and would hopefully GET richer experiences as well as fewer garbage games.
I can have as much fun with a mobile game as any other kind, and I think gamers are coming around. On gaming podcasts App discussion is a constant thing, for the most part. I just hope mobile developers don't strangle this baby in the crib before it has time to grow.
digita1alchemy
Member
I can only speak for myself, but the only time I would play a mobile game would be when I was out in public somewhere needing to kill time and I didn't have a portable console with me. Even then, I have a Windows Phone which is lacking many good games so I'd be more likely to just browse GAF or something. If I'm at home, I would almost never choose to play a mobile game over something on 3S/DS/Vita/PSP/GBA because of the gap in quality between mobile games and games on dedicated handhelds (IMO, of course).
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Touch and/or tilt controls are only suitable for certain few types of games. Some of them could be deep (but not too deep, I wouldn't play things like the new Torment on iOS even though it could likely handle something like it, I'd rather have it on my PC for obvious reasons) just as mouse-only driven games can be deep, but they sadly aren't actually made outside lesser copycats, ancient PC ports or extremely low budget productions that might mean well but don't achieve anything much. The few exceptions don't really do much for the whole, unless you're very interested in things like board & card games of which there are many reportedly good ones. Currently I'm only looking forward to Warhammer Quest (I don't have much faith in Space Hulk yet) and haven't played much of anything on iOS in months. I just use it for sofa & bed browsing.
My issue is time and making best use of it. As mobile games are generally very accessible and with me 24/7 I find that I waste time on these experiences.
I get little to no reward and now I'm at a point where I'm going to be more structured with time. Rather than bomb my way through another match 3 or tower defence game on my iPhone or iPad, I'm going to spend more time playing games with a deeper and more meaningful experience.
I get little to no reward and now I'm at a point where I'm going to be more structured with time. Rather than bomb my way through another match 3 or tower defence game on my iPhone or iPad, I'm going to spend more time playing games with a deeper and more meaningful experience.
rakkadakka
Member
Mobile games that you'd want to sit down with for more than 5 minutes.
That and not many have figured out a control scheme that is worthwhile.
Half Brick and a few others put together fun games but.. not very many others.
That and not many have figured out a control scheme that is worthwhile.
Half Brick and a few others put together fun games but.. not very many others.
- We have lots of bad games on home consoles.
- Controller and buttons are a different kind of restrictive. Ask PC gamers.
- We are moving everywhere to F2P, day 1 DLC. Nothing mobile gaming exclusive
- We have more and more gaming classics running on mobile.
Used-ID
Member
I know the popular reason is "no buttons" but for me it about the presentation.
I like a big screen, great surround sound and no distractions that playing on my PC or consoles gives me. I even play my hand-helds (vita, gba, dsi, turboexpress, PSP) at home.
Playing on a cellphone just doesn't feel right. I'm making everyone near me listen to what few sound effects make it above the ambient noise. It's like talking on speakerphone in the middle of a mall - just something I can't do.
I like a big screen, great surround sound and no distractions that playing on my PC or consoles gives me. I even play my hand-helds (vita, gba, dsi, turboexpress, PSP) at home.
Playing on a cellphone just doesn't feel right. I'm making everyone near me listen to what few sound effects make it above the ambient noise. It's like talking on speakerphone in the middle of a mall - just something I can't do.
I think it's important to realize and accept that mobile is it's own thing. Due to the constraints the platform has, it's never going to have deep, immersive games like you have on a console. It's never going to have quick, responsive games like you have on a handheld.
But that's a good thing, because it pushes developers in a different direction and they create new game types to make it work.
But that's a good thing, because it pushes developers in a different direction and they create new game types to make it work.
One time I watched a video of somebody trying to play Mr. Driller on an iphone. It was the most tragic thing I've ever seen in my life. It was like watching a deer with a broken leg trying to limp across the road. I don't want anything to do with mobile gaming until the control situation is remedied.
Warm Machine
Member
Clash of Clans makes $1,000,000 a day and there isnt an OT for it on NeoGAF. I'm not sure the userbase's opinion here is relevant to touch based games.
For me it costs, I would love to get achievements for windows phone games, but my only options to get one is to sign up for a service plan which I don't want or take you chances buying a used unlocked phone which may or may not work. If I could find a brand new WP7 device for around $100 without any service plan requirements I would probably buy one.
I do have a 1st gen motorola droid that I've done some gaming with but I mainly use it for playing old DOS games using a android dosbox emulator as I haven't found the android games to be more compelling than 20 year old PC games.
I do have a 1st gen motorola droid that I've done some gaming with but I mainly use it for playing old DOS games using a android dosbox emulator as I haven't found the android games to be more compelling than 20 year old PC games.
Most mobile games are boring in long terms. I hear A LOT about tablets replacing PCs, but it will never happen either. Sure, tablets will sell a lot and more in the future, but I'll never replace my PC, with a screen (not a touch one, for sure), keyboard and mouse. NEVER.
Same thing with handhelds. I have a Galaxy, I have A LOT of games (all of them free except two, and I paid less than 3 dollars each) and I almost never play them. In fact, when I play something while I'm waiting on the bank or the clinic, it's Sudokus or Kairosoft games. And that's it.
Same thing with handhelds. I have a Galaxy, I have A LOT of games (all of them free except two, and I paid less than 3 dollars each) and I almost never play them. In fact, when I play something while I'm waiting on the bank or the clinic, it's Sudokus or Kairosoft games. And that's it.
the vast majority of the games are designed to be throw-away junk food experiences, many of which try to extract money from the player in the most obnoxious way possible
i can only devote so much of my time to games so when i do i want it to be a high-quality experience (usually on my PC) and when i'm out with my tablet and have a few minutes i'd usually much rather read a book
i can only devote so much of my time to games so when i do i want it to be a high-quality experience (usually on my PC) and when i'm out with my tablet and have a few minutes i'd usually much rather read a book
hymanator
Member
Battery life is the biggest factor for me. I have some awesome games and emulators for my Android phone, but they wreak havoc on my charge level. It's not worth sacrificing phone calls, text messages, and email in order to enjoy a game for 30 minutes.
I also need buttons. I bought an iControlpad and I have dabbled with other "clip on" controllers, but I would rather have something that is built into the system as standard. I liked the idea of the original Xperia Play, but it still didn't solve the problem with needing a longer battery life. I can tolerate the Vita and 3DS not having a good battery, mainly because I don't rely on it to make phone calls and to send messages. One of these days someone will give us the best of both worlds, but there needs to be either stronger batteries or less power-hungry hardware to make it worthwhile.
There also needs to be better quality control with software. Browsing for quality games on iPhone and Android is similar to browsing for quality videos on YouTube. It requires too much work to figure out what isn't bad or a complete scam. The ratio of bad games to great ones is so uneven, it's like swimming in a pool of shit to find a bar of chocolate.
I also need buttons. I bought an iControlpad and I have dabbled with other "clip on" controllers, but I would rather have something that is built into the system as standard. I liked the idea of the original Xperia Play, but it still didn't solve the problem with needing a longer battery life. I can tolerate the Vita and 3DS not having a good battery, mainly because I don't rely on it to make phone calls and to send messages. One of these days someone will give us the best of both worlds, but there needs to be either stronger batteries or less power-hungry hardware to make it worthwhile.
There also needs to be better quality control with software. Browsing for quality games on iPhone and Android is similar to browsing for quality videos on YouTube. It requires too much work to figure out what isn't bad or a complete scam. The ratio of bad games to great ones is so uneven, it's like swimming in a pool of shit to find a bar of chocolate.
I haven't played a lot that feel like legitimate experiences, other than Swords & Sworcery and some iOS ports of PC point 'n click adventure games. I'm sure they're there, though; I ought to visit the iOS thread at some point.
For me, though, touchscreen controls are definitely a killer. I hate virtual gamepads.
For me, though, touchscreen controls are definitely a killer. I hate virtual gamepads.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Hey man, if battery life is your biggest issue, you should definitely buy one of those external battery bricks that just have 2 USB ports for charging. I have 4 of them and I make a point to bring at least one whenever I travel, go to a game, or just leave the house. I keep it in my car or pocket. Each one charges my iPhone about 3.5 times over.
I'm on my phone right now, but if you want I can find the amazon link. They also have them on monoprice.
I'll echo the control and depth comments here. I haven't played an iOS game for more than half an hour, and usually end up deleting them within minutes.
I have a friend who has an Xbox 360 for Call of Duty but his main gaming fix comes from his iPhone. We had some conversations about this before and basically what it came down to, he feels from a value proposition that for the price of one 3DS/Vita game you can get 40 paid games for that price and so he's getting more out of his money that way.
Now I can say something like Mario 3D Land or Persona 4 is at least 40 times better than one of those random iPhone games. Or even something like Mutant Mudds and Gunman Clive on the 3DS are so much better then they are on iOS, but for the price he pays he's ok with that.
So purely from a dollar per time spent in game point of view, you can play a $0.99 game for less than an hour and "get your money out of it" but for the average 3DS game if you never touch the game after an hour of play then that was money down the drain.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but something to think about.
I dunno how many people share my friend's point of view and whether it's a minority or majority.
I have a friend who has an Xbox 360 for Call of Duty but his main gaming fix comes from his iPhone. We had some conversations about this before and basically what it came down to, he feels from a value proposition that for the price of one 3DS/Vita game you can get 40 paid games for that price and so he's getting more out of his money that way.
Now I can say something like Mario 3D Land or Persona 4 is at least 40 times better than one of those random iPhone games. Or even something like Mutant Mudds and Gunman Clive on the 3DS are so much better then they are on iOS, but for the price he pays he's ok with that.
So purely from a dollar per time spent in game point of view, you can play a $0.99 game for less than an hour and "get your money out of it" but for the average 3DS game if you never touch the game after an hour of play then that was money down the drain.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but something to think about.
I dunno how many people share my friend's point of view and whether it's a minority or majority.